Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

[∞∞∞]

I guess the 75% of Americans that want the full report out there are loons.

I think the number of loons in America is higher than that. Plenty of stupid people in the world, it shouldn't be a goal to be a part of that group. There will be redactions, that's always been known. It's a government document with grand jury testimony and sensitive intelligence information. Being purposely ignorant of that is nothing to proud of.

Ha, the state secret excuse has been a hallmark of governments trying to justify anything. The over-designation of "confidential" has been a big issue since the Bush era where we went gun-ho about intelligence. It plagues the justice department as well and has trickled down to state and local agencies.

There's been plenty written about it too. Not only that, but the overuse of security clearances and confidential documents. I think something like 50% of people don't need clearances and 70% of documents don't need to be redacted or deemed confidential (in the federal gov't).

It's not healthy for democracy or public trust when everything is a secret.

Release the report. America wants it.

[GannonFan]

It's not healthy for democracy or public trust when everything is a secret.

Nor is it healthy when nothing is a secret. Heck, that's what all of this is about in the first place. We had plenty of transparency into the workings of the Democratic party and the Hillary campaign thanks to the illegally gotten e-mails that Russians and/or WikiLeaks pilfered. Why aren't you advocating for more such transparency going forward? I mean, we all want to know everything, so we should all be in favor of this kind of full transparency going forward, no?

[∞∞∞]

It's not healthy for democracy or public trust when everything is a secret.

Nor is it healthy when nothing is a secret. Heck, that's what all of this is about in the first place. We had plenty of transparency into the workings of the Democratic party and the Hillary campaign thanks to the illegally gotten e-mails that Russians and/or WikiLeaks pilfered. Why aren't you advocating for more such transparency going forward? I mean, we all want to know everything, so we should all be in favor of this kind of full transparency going forward, no?

I don't disagree.

But there's quite the difference between the Democratic Party (or any party) and the Government.

One is a bunch of people who got together to run for office. Like any organization, it can run itself how it wants as long as it follows the law. They want to select their leader through apple bobbing? They can.

The other is the actual system by which a People administers its will.

[89Hen]

But there's quite the difference between the Democratic Party (or any party) and the Government.

One is a bunch of people who got together to run for office. Like any organization, it can run itself how it wants as long as it follows the law. They want to select their leader through apple bobbing? They can.

The other is the actual system by which a People administers its will.

A lot of those people hold office and they run for office through government established processes. It's not like they're a social club.

[89Hen]

I’m liberal

[AZGrizFan]

Has the Mueller report been fully released yet? No? Until then Trump isn't exonerated.

Most Americans want this. The letter isn't enough nor will any redacted report.

Then you're a loon. Of course the report is going to have redactions. If you honestly believe there will be a report with zero redactions and that without one you'll keep burning the candle for Trump to be frog-marched out of the White House then you're a closed mind. Not that many here think you have an open mind on things anyway, but you'll more clearly be the partisan zealot that you apparently are.

You just NOW figuring that out, Ganny?

[AZGrizFan]

Has the Mueller report been fully released yet? No? Until then Trump isn't exonerated.

Most Americans want this. The letter isn't enough nor will any redacted report.

He doesn't have to prove innocence. They have to prove guilt. That's how it works in this great experiment.

[GannonFan]

But there's quite the difference between the Democratic Party (or any party) and the Government.

One is a bunch of people who got together to run for office. Like any organization, it can run itself how it wants as long as it follows the law. They want to select their leader through apple bobbing? They can.

The other is the actual system by which a People administers its will.

A lot of those people hold office and they run for office through government established processes. It's not like they're a social club.

Agreed. Sure the Democratic Party is a private organization, but the main purpose, heck possibly its only purpose, of that organization is to hold public office and to steer government (public) activities. If we're pushing for transparency like that, why isn't Trip applauding Russian hackers and WikiLeaks? Heck, I don't recall anyone denying what was in those e-mails so that was a great thing that those documents were hacked, no? Transparency over all. Anyone know how to say transparency in Latin, I'm sure it would make a great motto.

[GannonFan]

Then you're a loon. Of course the report is going to have redactions. If you honestly believe there will be a report with zero redactions and that without one you'll keep burning the candle for Trump to be frog-marched out of the White House then you're a closed mind. Not that many here think you have an open mind on things anyway, but you'll more clearly be the partisan zealot that you apparently are.

You just NOW figuring that out, Ganny?

I'm an eternal optimist. I'm trying to think the best of Trip.

[89Hen]

Has the Mueller report been fully released yet? No? Until then Trump isn't exonerated.

Most Americans want this. The letter isn't enough nor will any redacted report.

He doesn't have to prove innocence. They have to prove guilt. That's how it works in this great experiment.

Trip doesn't care for such trivial notions. Innocence until proven guilty is not part of his American dream.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Wrong the polls show more than 50% of real Americans are already satisfied.

Americas President won........ AGAIN

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[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Has the Mueller report been fully released yet? No? Until then Trump isn't exonerated.

Most Americans want this. The letter isn't enough nor will any redacted report.

He doesn't have to prove innocence. They have to prove guilt. That's how it works in this great experiment.

Liberals only need the accusation........ They bypass due process faster than they kill babys

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[JohnStOnge]

Has the Mueller report been fully released yet? No? Until then Trump isn't exonerated.

Most Americans want this. The letter isn't enough nor will any redacted report.

Then you're a loon. Of course the report is going to have redactions. If you honestly believe there will be a report with zero redactions and that without one you'll keep burning the candle for Trump to be frog-marched out of the White House then you're a closed mind. Not that many here think you have an open mind on things anyway, but you'll more clearly be the partisan zealot that you apparently are.

Actually I don't think there are any in insurmountable legal barriers to releasing to full report without redaction to certain committees in Congress. Also, they certainly can make an effort to minimze the redactions. Barr could ask a court to allow release of grand jury stuff and if past is precedent a judge would probably authorize that. And the thing about peripheral third parties isn't a legal standard at all. It's just a Jusice Department Policy.

If they do not release the entire report unredacted to people in Congress who are authorized to recieve such stuff they are going to be seen as covering up.

[JohnStOnge]

Wrong the polls show more than 50% of real Americans are already satisfied.

Americas President won........ AGAIN

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I hate to break this to you but that majority of Americans who don't like Trump and who believe the Mueller report did not exonerate him are real Americans. Most Americans want him out. Unless something changes significantly most Americans are going to vote against him in 2020. It's just a question of whether he can slip in thanks to the Electoral College again.

[CID1990]

I can predict your spin by watching MSNBC almost to the minute


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[CID1990]

Then you're a loon. Of course the report is going to have redactions. If you honestly believe there will be a report with zero redactions and that without one you'll keep burning the candle for Trump to be frog-marched out of the White House then you're a closed mind. Not that many here think you have an open mind on things anyway, but you'll more clearly be the partisan zealot that you apparently are.

I guess the 75% of Americans that want the full report out there are loons (according to NPR/PBS/Marist).

84% according to Quinnipiac.

75% of Americans would probably like a ride on the ISS too

Hey Ganny- if you think Truthers and Birthers were bad... wait until the DOJ redacts for methods/sources/classified

its going to be glorious - self immolation

(except for the glide path to reelection it will put Trump on)


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[kalm]

Then you're a loon. Of course the report is going to have redactions. If you honestly believe there will be a report with zero redactions and that without one you'll keep burning the candle for Trump to be frog-marched out of the White House then you're a closed mind. Not that many here think you have an open mind on things anyway, but you'll more clearly be the partisan zealot that you apparently are.

Actually I don't think there are any in insurmountable legal barriers to releasing to full report without redaction to certain committees in Congress. Also, they certainly can make an effort to minimze the redactions. Barr could ask a court to allow release of grand jury stuff and if past is precedent a judge would probably authorize that. And the thing about peripheral third parties isn't a legal standard at all. It's just a Jusice Department Policy.

If they do not release the entire report unredacted to people in Congress who are authorized to recieve such stuff they are going to be seen as covering up.

They’ve gone through a process and at least certain Congress critters can access classified materials.

It’s like the 4th amendment arguments for search and seizure...if you haven’t committed a crime you have nothing to worry about.

[kalm]

I’m liberal

Missed this one...

What’s the opposite of liberal?

[CID1990]

Actually I don't think there are any in insurmountable legal barriers to releasing to full report without redaction to certain committees in Congress. Also, they certainly can make an effort to minimze the redactions. Barr could ask a court to allow release of grand jury stuff and if past is precedent a judge would probably authorize that. And the thing about peripheral third parties isn't a legal standard at all. It's just a Jusice Department Policy.

If they do not release the entire report unredacted to people in Congress who are authorized to recieve such stuff they are going to be seen as covering up.

They’ve gone through a process and at least certain Congress critters can access classified materials.

It’s like the 4th amendment arguments for search and seizure...if you haven’t committed a crime you have nothing to worry about.

Both of you must have missed where Nancy Pelosi said she would reject a classified briefing for cleared members

spin spin spin obfuscate




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[kalm]

They’ve gone through a process and at least certain Congress critters can access classified materials.

It’s like the 4th amendment arguments for search and seizure...if you haven’t committed a crime you have nothing to worry about.

Both of you must have missed where Nancy Pelosi said she would reject a classified briefing for cleared members

spin spin spin obfuscate




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Well, that’s wrong. What am I obfuscating?

[CID1990]

Both of you must have missed where Nancy Pelosi said she would reject a classified briefing for cleared members

spin spin spin obfuscate




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Well, that’s wrong. What am I obfuscating?

I figured since you were nodding with JSO when he says DOJ can do something Pelosi already rejected... that meant you agreed

Putting this in the AG’s court when Dem house leadership is aking for violations of the law is obfuscating - maybe you didn’t read JSO with a critcical eye?

Proceed with your do-over I guess


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[kalm]

Well, that’s wrong. What am I obfuscating?

I figured since you were nodding with JSO when he says DOJ can do something Pelosi already rejected... that meant you agreed

Putting this in the AG’s court when Dem house leadership is aking for violations of the law is obfuscating - maybe you didn’t read JSO with a critcical eye?

Proceed with your do-over I guess


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1). As much as possible should be released to the public.

2). Sensitive/classified parts should be released to members of both parties with security clearance.

[Ivytalk]

I figured since you were nodding with JSO when he says DOJ can do something Pelosi already rejected... that meant you agreed

Putting this in the AG’s court when Dem house leadership is aking for violations of the law is obfuscating - maybe you didn’t read JSO with a critcical eye?

Proceed with your do-over I guess


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1). As much as possible should be released to the public.

2). Sensitive/classified parts should be released to members of both parties with security clearance.

Sensible post-partisan post. Grand compromise worthy of UNI88.

[UNI88]

1). As much as possible should be released to the public.

2). Sensitive/classified parts should be released to members of both parties with security clearance.

Sensible post-partisan post. Grand compromise worthy of UNI88.

Good job little Kalmhopper. All that time I had him painting the fence and waxing the car is paying off.

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[CID1990]

I figured since you were nodding with JSO when he says DOJ can do something Pelosi already rejected... that meant you agreed

Putting this in the AG’s court when Dem house leadership is aking for violations of the law is obfuscating - maybe you didn’t read JSO with a critcical eye?

Proceed with your do-over I guess


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1). As much as possible should be released to the public.

2). Sensitive/classified parts should be released to members of both parties with security clearance.

Agreed.

That’s not obfuscation.

But when Pelosi and Co start lying about what “as much as possible” means let’s see who lines up behind whom


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