Charlie Manuel Watch Thread - 2010 Edition

[93henfan]

A-Roid, Utley and Delgado were able to perform with Hip Injuries. Big Papi had hand and wrist problems and he hasn't been the same player since. People always talk about the compact nature of Utley's swing and his wrists play a big part in his ablility to get around quicker so he can drive the ball. You take away the wrists and you have a guy with a short swing who can't turn on the ball.

Too early to know what the lingering effects might be. I guess we'll find out in mid to late August. I'm not going to try to prognosticate.

[93henfan]

Surgery for Utley. Out 5-6 weeks.

It's now up to "at least 8 weeks".

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phil ... rgery.html

Not good. Not good at all.

[bluehenbillk]

Heard a stat last night that the starting infield has only played together 12 times this year.

[93henfan]

Phils give winless Pirates pitchers their first victories in back to back nights. Tonight they lose to Ross Ohlendorf, who had gone 16 decisions without a victory, dating back to August 2009.

It would appear that the Phils have finally mailed it in for 2010.

[Ivytalk]

Phils give winless Pirates pitchers their first victories in back to back nights. Tonight they lose to Ross Ohlendorf, who had gone 16 decisions without a victory, dating back to August 2009.

It would appear that the Phils have finally mailed it in for 2010.

And a shutout, to boot. I never dreamed that we'd lose to BOTH of the Bucs' winless guys. Disgusting. PNC Park is truly a house of horrors for the Phils.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

The Phillies' obsession with Cliff Lee continues. The two-time defending National League champions again are interested in acquiring Lee, according to major-league sources.

FOX Sports

At least the might be recognizing their mistake.

[93henfan]

Kyle Drabek threw a no hitter last night for the Toronto AA affiliate.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Dra ... close.html


I guess we'll find out in the next three nights if the Braves have the ability to put their foot on the neck of an injury-riddled Phils squad.

[Grizalltheway]

The Phillies' obsession with Cliff Lee continues. The two-time defending National League champions again are interested in acquiring Lee, according to major-league sources.

FOX Sports

At least the might be recognizing their mistake.

You fools had your chance to keep him, now fugg off!

[Ivytalk]

Big win for Phils over Braves, 3-1 behind Halladay. Two-run bomb by Coach Dobbs the difference.

[GannonFan]

Big win for Phils over Braves, 3-1 behind Halladay. Two-run bomb by Coach Dobbs the difference.

Good way to start the series - Phils need to show that moxie that they normally have when their backs get up against the wall. Phils have the pitching advantage again tonight, and it would be a great spot for Hamels to continue showing that he's an improved pitcher this year.

[bluehenbillk]

Checking for a pulse....are the paddles needed yet?

[GannonFan]

Almost - hard to feel optimistic. The pitching has been fine, heck, even the bullpen hasn't killed them. But the continual lack of offense, stangely from a team reknown for offense, is just baffling. On the bright side, Jayson Werth has become much more affordable with his struggles this year, and if the Phils do start to fall out of it perhaps they can find a way to move Ibanez and some of that contract (can't imagine anyone will take all of it) and make way for Brown in left.

If the bats don't wake up by the end of July, I'll be ready to call it a season. Not quite yet though.

[bluehenbillk]

Almost - hard to feel optimistic. The pitching has been fine, heck, even the bullpen hasn't killed them. But the continual lack of offense, stangely from a team reknown for offense, is just baffling. On the bright side, Jayson Werth has become much more affordable with his struggles this year, and if the Phils do start to fall out of it perhaps they can find a way to move Ibanez and some of that contract (can't imagine anyone will take all of it) and make way for Brown in left.

If the bats don't wake up by the end of July, I'll be ready to call it a season. Not quite yet though.

So will you be shocked if it's Victorino or Werth who's gone before the end of the month to make room for Brown??

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Almost - hard to feel optimistic. The pitching has been fine, heck, even the bullpen hasn't killed them. But the continual lack of offense, stangely from a team reknown for offense, is just baffling. On the bright side, Jayson Werth has become much more affordable with his struggles this year, and if the Phils do start to fall out of it perhaps they can find a way to move Ibanez and some of that contract (can't imagine anyone will take all of it) and make way for Brown in left.

If the bats don't wake up by the end of July, I'll be ready to call it a season. Not quite yet though.

So will you be shocked if it's Victorino or Werth who's gone before the end of the month to make room for Brown??

I'm looking forward to seing Domonic Brown up with the big club. He sounds like a very humble guy and it is hard not to root for a kid who was a later round draft pick (20th) and blossomed through the system.

[BlueHen86]

Almost - hard to feel optimistic. The pitching has been fine, heck, even the bullpen hasn't killed them. But the continual lack of offense, stangely from a team reknown for offense, is just baffling. On the bright side, Jayson Werth has become much more affordable with his struggles this year, and if the Phils do start to fall out of it perhaps they can find a way to move Ibanez and some of that contract (can't imagine anyone will take all of it) and make way for Brown in left.

If the bats don't wake up by the end of July, I'll be ready to call it a season. Not quite yet though.

So will you be shocked if it's Victorino or Werth who's gone before the end of the month to make room for Brown??

No, but I think they will be hard to trade, at least for the type of starting pitcher that the Phils will be shopping for.

[GannonFan]

Almost - hard to feel optimistic. The pitching has been fine, heck, even the bullpen hasn't killed them. But the continual lack of offense, stangely from a team reknown for offense, is just baffling. On the bright side, Jayson Werth has become much more affordable with his struggles this year, and if the Phils do start to fall out of it perhaps they can find a way to move Ibanez and some of that contract (can't imagine anyone will take all of it) and make way for Brown in left.

If the bats don't wake up by the end of July, I'll be ready to call it a season. Not quite yet though.

So will you be shocked if it's Victorino or Werth who's gone before the end of the month to make room for Brown??

No, not shocked at all. Could happen. Doesn't really help the Phils greatly in either the short or long term. They aren't desperate for pitching help right now - if the bats stay quiet even Halladay has been proven to be unable to win. And longterm getting rid of either guy to bring Brown up just means you are way too lefty slanted in the lineup. And you still have a declining Ibanez with another year on his contract sitting in left. I guess I'd have to see the trade itself but obviously my preference would be to dump Ibanez and keep the other two when bringing up Brown, even with Werth's struggles this year.

[bluehenbillk]

No, not shocked at all. Could happen. Doesn't really help the Phils greatly in either the short or long term. They aren't desperate for pitching help right now - if the bats stay quiet even Halladay has been proven to be unable to win. And longterm getting rid of either guy to bring Brown up just means you are way too lefty slanted in the lineup. And you still have a declining Ibanez with another year on his contract sitting in left. I guess I'd have to see the trade itself but obviously my preference would be to dump Ibanez and keep the other two when bringing up Brown, even with Werth's struggles this year.

Well what, if any, kind of market is there for a struggling 38-year outfielder that's due to make $11M next year??

[93henfan]

So, what would it take to get Lee back? Hamels and a prospect?

[bluehenbillk]

So, what would it take to get Lee back? Hamels and a prospect?

Victorino or Werth and a prospect I would do. If you need pitching, what good does it do to deal Hamels for Lee? Kinda think that would be greeted with similar enthusiasm for when we got Halladay but sent Lee to Seattle. Plus, Lee is a free agent at the end of the year & supposedly he's looking for well above what Halladay got, 20M/yr or higher.

[GannonFan]

No, not shocked at all. Could happen. Doesn't really help the Phils greatly in either the short or long term. They aren't desperate for pitching help right now - if the bats stay quiet even Halladay has been proven to be unable to win. And longterm getting rid of either guy to bring Brown up just means you are way too lefty slanted in the lineup. And you still have a declining Ibanez with another year on his contract sitting in left. I guess I'd have to see the trade itself but obviously my preference would be to dump Ibanez and keep the other two when bringing up Brown, even with Werth's struggles this year.

Well what, if any, kind of market is there for a struggling 38-year outfielder that's due to make $11M next year??

Well, a crappy one actually. But the idea is to get back any money you can for Ibanez so that you have that money to give to Werth while bringing up Brown in the process. If you can get someone to eat a few million of what's coming to Ibanez next year, that's a few million you can afford to give to Werth. And, like I said, you get Brown in the lineup and you keep the balance (well, slight imbalance right now) in the lineup.

[GannonFan]

So, what would it take to get Lee back? Hamels and a prospect?

Victorino or Werth and a prospect I would do. If you need pitching, what good does it do to deal Hamels for Lee? Kinda think that would be greeted with similar enthusiasm for when we got Halladay but sent Lee to Seattle. Plus, Lee is a free agent at the end of the year & supposedly he's looking for well above what Halladay got, 20M/yr or higher.

And that's the thing - for the next 3 years Halladay is getting $20M per year with an option for a 4th year. Lee is looking for an probably will get more than that (CC's getting $24M each year over the next 5 so probably a contract like that or even more)since he'll clearly be in the Yankees and Red Sox sights and those are the two teams that can and will carry more salary than the Phils. There's no way the Phils can have Halladay and Lee, longterm, and pay them and everyone else who needs to be paid. If the Phils wanted Lee for a year, they would've kept him and just paid the $9M he's getting this year and then let him walk, but they obviously went another way. Getting him now would cost major league talent and the next best prospect (or two) not named Brown, and you'd have him for just the next two months before he goes to the Bronx or Fenway. That's an option, but it doesn't do anything to fix the lineup, which is what is causing them not to win right now.

Perhaps if we make a trade that nets someone to fill Jamie Moyer's role next year (assuming we don't re-up with him, and though he's pitched well of late, I'm not really keen on signing him again unless he's willing to take a one year deal for less money, which is unlikely) then that's something. Next year's rotation is Halladay, Hamels, Happ, Blanton (if not traded) and Kendrick. Getting something better than those last two would be a nice to have.

[BlueHen86]

So will you be shocked if it's Victorino or Werth who's gone before the end of the month to make room for Brown??

No, not shocked at all. Could happen. Doesn't really help the Phils greatly in either the short or long term. They aren't desperate for pitching help right now - if the bats stay quiet even Halladay has been proven to be unable to win. And longterm getting rid of either guy to bring Brown up just means you are way too lefty slanted in the lineup. And you still have a declining Ibanez with another year on his contract sitting in left. I guess I'd have to see the trade itself but obviously my preference would be to dump Ibanez and keep the other two when bringing up Brown, even with Werth's struggles this year.

They may not be desparate, but Amaro has stated that his top priority is to land a starting pitcher. I heard the named Dan Haren mentioned on the radio this morning, the problem with trading for Haren is that Arizona would want prospects as opposed to players like Werth or Ibanez.

[GannonFan]

No, not shocked at all. Could happen. Doesn't really help the Phils greatly in either the short or long term. They aren't desperate for pitching help right now - if the bats stay quiet even Halladay has been proven to be unable to win. And longterm getting rid of either guy to bring Brown up just means you are way too lefty slanted in the lineup. And you still have a declining Ibanez with another year on his contract sitting in left. I guess I'd have to see the trade itself but obviously my preference would be to dump Ibanez and keep the other two when bringing up Brown, even with Werth's struggles this year.

They may not be desparate, but Amaro has stated that his top priority is to land a starting pitcher. I heard the named Dan Haren mentioned on the radio this morning, the problem with trading for Haren is that Arizona would want prospects as opposed to players like Werth or Ibanez.

I know what Amaro said, but he also said that getting rid of Lee had nothing to do with money and all about restocking the minor leagues (I think it had a little to do with restocking the minor leagues, but it had plenty to do with keeping the payroll down) so I take that with a grain of salt. But if they do go for a guy like Haren they would probably be alright taking someone like Victorino - he's under a reasonable contract for 2 more years before he's a FA and he'll never command huge money.

[dbackjon]

Arizona doesn't need any outfielders

[93henfan]

After watching Victorino swing at two balls that hit in front of the plate last night, I won't be needing too many boxes of Kleenex if he's traded.