AGS Poll Week 11

[andy7171]

AGS Top 25 For November 14, 2011

1 Montana State Bobcats 2335 63
2 Sam Houston State Bearkats 2251 29
3 Georgia Southern Eagles 2141 1
4 Northern Iowa Panthers 2042 0
5 North Dakota State Bison 1954 1
6 Towson Tigers 1810 1
7 Lehigh Mountain Hawks 1768
8 Montana Grizzlies 1728
9 Maine Black Bears 1606
10 Old Dominion Monarchs 1501
11 Appalachian State Mountaineers 1448
12 Wofford Terriers 1322
13 New Hampshire Wildcats 1205
14 Illinois State Redbirds 1100
15 Liberty Flames 882
16 Central Arkansas Bears 869
17 Harvard Crimson 839
18 James Madison Dukes 643
19 Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens 636
20 Indiana State Sycamores 480
21 Youngstown State Penguins 466
22 Norfolk State Spartans 433
23 Furman Paladins 359
24 Portland State Vikings 352
25 Stony Brook Seawolves 148


Towson got a first place vote...

[ODUalum11]

I agree with the top 10. Well done.

[Silenoz]

Towson got a first place vote...

If I still voted they'd probably get my #1 too

[Ibanez]

Georgia Southern is going to take it in the butt this saturday. What a way to end the seaon (and make some money).

CCU plays Western Carolina.Ugh, we had a difficult time with CSU, if we lose to WCU I don't know what I'd do.

[travelinman67]

AGS Top 25 For November 14, 2011

1 Montana State Bobcats 2335 63
2 Sam Houston State Bearkats 2251 29
3 Georgia Southern Eagles 2141 1
4 Northern Iowa Panthers 2042 0
5 North Dakota State Bison 1954 1
6 Towson Tigers 1810 1
7 Lehigh Mountain Hawks 1768
8 Montana Grizzlies 1728
9 Maine Black Bears 1606
10 Old Dominion Monarchs 1501
11 Appalachian State Mountaineers 1448
12 Wofford Terriers 1322
13 New Hampshire Wildcats 1205
14 Illinois State Redbirds 1100
15 Liberty Flames 882
16 Central Arkansas Bears 869
17 Harvard Crimson 839
18 James Madison Dukes 643
19 Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens 636
20 Indiana State Sycamores 480
21 Youngstown State Penguins 466
22 Norfolk State Spartans 433
23 Furman Paladins 359
24 Portland State Vikings 352
25 Stony Brook Seawolves 148


Towson got a first place vote...

One of the reasons CS doesn't list first place votes...

...there's always some numbskull shilling his team in at #1. Not saying Towson is a shill, just saying.

BTW, only Montana State and Sam Houston recd. 1st place votes in the CS poll this week.

[frinq]

Hey, Andy. Notice that PSU has made the polls? AGS at 23.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

AGS Top 25 For November 14, 2011

1 Montana State Bobcats 2335 63
2 Sam Houston State Bearkats 2251 29
3 Georgia Southern Eagles 2141 1
4 Northern Iowa Panthers 2042 0
5 North Dakota State Bison 1954 1
6 Towson Tigers 1810 1
7 Lehigh Mountain Hawks 1768
8 Montana Grizzlies 1728
9 Maine Black Bears 1606
10 Old Dominion Monarchs 1501
11 Appalachian State Mountaineers 1448
12 Wofford Terriers 1322
13 New Hampshire Wildcats 1205
14 Illinois State Redbirds 1100
15 Liberty Flames 882
16 Central Arkansas Bears 869
17 Harvard Crimson 839
18 James Madison Dukes 643
19 Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens 636
20 Indiana State Sycamores 480
21 Youngstown State Penguins 466
22 Norfolk State Spartans 433
23 Furman Paladins 359
24 Portland State Vikings 352
25 Stony Brook Seawolves 148


Towson got a first place vote...

One of the reasons CS doesn't list first place votes...

...there's always some numbskull shilling his team in at #1. Not saying Towson is a shill, just saying.

BTW, only Montana State and Sam Houston recd. 1st place votes in the CS poll this week.

Actually Tman that's not how it works. A homer vote doesn't go through uncontested. If a Towson guy had voted that it would be held unless another voter also wanted Towson #1. The NDSU #1 vote falls under the same rule as that was not an NDSU guy.

[Darell1976]

One of the reasons CS doesn't list first place votes...

...there's always some numbskull shilling his team in at #1. Not saying Towson is a shill, just saying.

BTW, only Montana State and Sam Houston recd. 1st place votes in the CS poll this week.

Actually Tman that's not how it works. A homer vote doesn't go through uncontested. If a Towson guy had voted that it would be held unless another voter also wanted Towson #1. The NDSU #1 vote falls under the same rule as that was not an NDSU guy.

Just a NDSU guy in disguise.

[andy7171]

Hey, Andy. Notice that PSU has made the polls? AGS at 23.

Did I say something against Portland State that I am not remembering?

I had them at #23 this week and #25 last week.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Actually Tman that's not how it works. A homer vote doesn't go through uncontested. If a Towson guy had voted that it would be held unless another voter also wanted Towson #1. The NDSU #1 vote falls under the same rule as that was not an NDSU guy.

Just a NDSU guy in disguise.

I'm sure that is the conspiracy angle that some would go with but it is a BSC guy that I know to be a BSC from personal experience.

[travelinman67]

One of the reasons CS doesn't list first place votes...

...there's always some numbskull shilling his team in at #1. Not saying Towson is a shill, just saying.

BTW, only Montana State and Sam Houston recd. 1st place votes in the CS poll this week.

Actually Tman that's not how it works. A homer vote doesn't go through uncontested. If a Towson guy had voted that it would be held unless another voter also wanted Towson #1. The NDSU #1 vote falls under the same rule as that was not an NDSU guy.

Not saying it's a homer. We had a couple shill votes in the first 4 weeks...as we do every year...usually the same voter/two every time.

You know I'm not 'dissing the AGS poll...just saying that listing the #1 votes, or all teams receiving points, provides opportunities for rogue voters to sabotage the credibility of a poll.

(imho)

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Actually Tman that's not how it works. A homer vote doesn't go through uncontested. If a Towson guy had voted that it would be held unless another voter also wanted Towson #1. The NDSU #1 vote falls under the same rule as that was not an NDSU guy.

Not saying it's a homer. We had a couple shill votes in the first 4 weeks...as we do every year...usually the same voter/two every time.

You know I'm not 'dissing the AGS poll...just saying that listing the #1 votes, or all teams receiving points, provides opportunities for rogue voters to sabotage the credibility of a poll.

(imho)

Gotcha and didn't take it as you were bashing it but just thought I'd explain further on the matter. I really like the letting people have their vote as I know you always stand behind as well and then letting them get their asses ripped by the other voters if it is not stable. Plus the votes in question will be vetted and if they are completely out of line then the voter gets an opportunity to rethink it with additional information they may not have taken into account.

It's all laid out on the table and if it isn't credible to everyone then so be it. You know me Tman...I don't give a shit if everyone cottons to it.

I would like to make a change for next year that even if it is not a homer then you gotta have at least one other voter ilining up shoulder to shoulder with ya on the #1 vote. For this wee's two stragglers though a good argument was presented...well for at least one of them...I don't remember viewing the other one but could make the argument myself so good enough for me.

[89Hen]

I would like to make a change for next year that even if it is not a homer then you gotta have at least one other voter ilining up shoulder to shoulder with ya on the #1 vote.

Sounds like a slippery slope there UAH. I instituted the "homer vote" at AGS if you'd like any background.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I would like to make a change for next year that even if it is not a homer then you gotta have at least one other voter ilining up shoulder to shoulder with ya on the #1 vote.

Sounds like a slippery slope there UAH. I instituted the "homer vote" at AGS if you'd like any background.

Well I know it is and I know you were part of it all and in fact were the director of the AGS Poll which is why I did seek some assistance from yourself when Cleets and I took it over.

The help or insight was greatly appreciated and I would take any further suggestions as coming from a voice of experience as well.

It is a slippery slope type of thing although not real slippery but I don't like doing anything like that in the first place so there wouldn't be any rash moves on that one either. But I have other ideas for it for next year anyway so it may be trash canned before even getting to the floor.

As the Hens and the Griz will prove on Saturday, there is more than one way to skin a cat. That doesn't really apply here at all but I wanted to throw it out there anyway.

[Gil Dobie]

I would like to make a change for next year that even if it is not a homer then you gotta have at least one other voter ilining up shoulder to shoulder with ya on the #1 vote. For this wee's two stragglers though a good argument was presented...well for at least one of them...I don't remember viewing the other one but could make the argument myself so good enough for me.

I would tend not to agree with this philosophy. My vote was rejected last year due to being the only one voting Montana St #1 with 2 weeks to go. MSU beat EWU during the season, so that was part of my reason. Looks like I just voted for the wrong BSC school last year.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I would like to make a change for next year that even if it is not a homer then you gotta have at least one other voter ilining up shoulder to shoulder with ya on the #1 vote. For this wee's two stragglers though a good argument was presented...well for at least one of them...I don't remember viewing the other one but could make the argument myself so good enough for me.

I would tend not to agree with this philosophy. My vote was rejected last year due to being the only one voting Montana St #1 with 2 weeks to go. MSU beat EWU during the season, so that was part of my reason. Looks like I just voted for the wrong BSC school last year.

You're talking about something I was no part of and can't attest to what happened back then. I ain't married to any one idea as you know and am just looking for a good, balanced approach.

I can go along with the single #1 votes pretty easily and I know you've seen that I argue that side of the debate anyway. I really don't think anyone has a lock on what the correct philosophy is on it all because it can all be picked apart prety easily.

Do you think your same type of scenario would have gone through this year considering what you've seen?

[Gil Dobie]

I would tend not to agree with this philosophy. My vote was rejected last year due to being the only one voting Montana St #1 with 2 weeks to go. MSU beat EWU during the season, so that was part of my reason. Looks like I just voted for the wrong BSC school last year.

You're talking about something I was no part of and can't attest to what happened back then. I ain't married to any one idea as you know and am just looking for a good, balanced approach.

I can go along with the single #1 votes pretty easily and I know you've seen that I argue that side of the debate anyway. I really don't think anyone has a lock on what the correct philosophy is on it all because it can all be picked apart prety easily.

Do you think your same type of scenario would have gone through this year considering what you've seen?

I think it would have gone through this year.

[Mvemjsunpx]

I would like to make a change for next year that even if it is not a homer then you gotta have at least one other voter ilining up shoulder to shoulder with ya on the #1 vote. For this wee's two stragglers though a good argument was presented...well for at least one of them...I don't remember viewing the other one but could make the argument myself so good enough for me.

I would tend not to agree with this philosophy. My vote was rejected last year due to being the only one voting Montana St #1 with 2 weeks to go. MSU beat EWU during the season, so that was part of my reason. Looks like I just voted for the wrong BSC school last year.

I agree with Gil here. I think that policy would remove too many voters, especially in the early season votes where things are a lot more speculative & there's rarely an obvious #1.

It just seems a little too draconian to me.

[89Hen]

I would tend not to agree with this philosophy. My vote was rejected last year due to being the only one voting Montana St #1 with 2 weeks to go. MSU beat EWU during the season, so that was part of my reason. Looks like I just voted for the wrong BSC school last year.

I agree with Gil here. I think that policy would remove too many voters, especially in the early season votes where things are a lot more speculative & there's rarely an obvious #1.

It just seems a little too draconian to me.

Agreed, but I can see a case where a guy like DetroitFlyer may vote for another Pioneer team as #1 just to stick it to the poll.

[mlbowl]

Honest question...Why in the hell is UNI ahead of NDSU in all the polls?

[clenz]

Honest question...Why in the hell is UNI ahead of NDSU in all the polls?

NDSU lost more recently (if you want to be ranked highly, don't lose late) to an unranked team that UNI beat the week before (in a game that UNI started a rFr QB making his first career start and seeing his first career action of meaning, and started and played only a rFr RB with the starting RB out). That UNI/NDSU game was pretty much completely even - remember UNI was again without their starting RB and a healthy starting QB (was forced to play a rFr, who led them to a TD and had a chance to tie the game on the last drive of the game). NDSU won by 1 score, which was a UNI fumble returned 2 yards for a TD. Realistically it could be argued the game was won by NDSU only because it was in Fargo - and was considered to be the biggest game in NDSU history by many of the fans, coaches (the HC admitted it was), and players.

Head to head comparisons are a bitch. Look at it this way

NDSU should be a head of UNI because they beat them....YSU should be a head of NDSU because they beat them....UNI should be a head of YSU because they beat them....NDSU should be a head of UNI because they beat them....YSU should be a head of NDSU because they beat them....UNI should be a head of YSU because they beat them....NDSU should be a head of UNI because they beat them....YSU should be a head of NDSU because they beat them....UNI should be a head of YSU because they beat them....NDSU should be a head of UNI because they beat them....YSU should be a head of NDSU because they beat them....UNI should be a head of YSU because they beat them....

[mlbowl]

NDSU has 1 loss AND the head to head win over UNI.

[cpacmel]

Honest question...Why in the hell is UNI ahead of NDSU in all the polls?

NDSU lost more recently (if you want to be ranked highly, don't lose late) to an unranked team that UNI beat the week before (in a game that UNI started a rFr QB making his first career start and seeing his first career action of meaning, and started and played only a rFr RB with the starting RB out). That UNI/NDSU game was pretty much completely even - remember UNI was again without their starting RB and a healthy starting QB (was forced to play a rFr, who led them to a TD and had a chance to tie the game on the last drive of the game). NDSU won by 1 score, which was a UNI fumble returned 2 yards for a TD. Realistically it could be argued the game was won by NDSU only because it was in Fargo - and was considered to be the biggest game in NDSU history by many of the fans, coaches (the HC admitted it was), and players.

Aren't polls supposed to be based on the entire body of work though and not just the prior weekend's results?

Clenz, I know you are a DIEHARD UNI fan. But taking that out of it (which I know is nearly impossible), can you honestly say that at this point in the season and looking back on the ENTIRE season, that UNI should be ranked ahead of NORTH DAKOTA STATE? Because I just don't see it.

I don't have a dog in this fight. And my feelings for both programs are the same.

[clenz]

NDSU lost more recently (if you want to be ranked highly, don't lose late) to an unranked team that UNI beat the week before (in a game that UNI started a rFr QB making his first career start and seeing his first career action of meaning, and started and played only a rFr RB with the starting RB out). That UNI/NDSU game was pretty much completely even - remember UNI was again without their starting RB and a healthy starting QB (was forced to play a rFr, who led them to a TD and had a chance to tie the game on the last drive of the game). NDSU won by 1 score, which was a UNI fumble returned 2 yards for a TD. Realistically it could be argued the game was won by NDSU only because it was in Fargo - and was considered to be the biggest game in NDSU history by many of the fans, coaches (the HC admitted it was), and players.

Aren't polls supposed to be based on the entire body of work though and not just the prior weekend's results?

Clenz, I know you are a DIEHARD UNI fan. But taking that out of it (which I know is nearly impossible), can you honestly say that at this point in the season and looking back on the ENTIRE season, that UNI should be ranked ahead of NORTH DAKOTA STATE? Because I just don't see it.

I don't have a dog in this fight. And my feelings for both programs are the same.

NDSU has 1 FCS loss to an unranked FCS team - that UNI beat missing 2 key players
UNI has one FCS loss to NDSU

Unless the FBS game is a massive upset (which NDSU/Minn wasn't) or a massive blowout (which UNI/ISU wasn't) I throw those out.

It could be said their resume is almost identical, and it could be argued that UNI had a better FCS OOC SOS.


Like I said, the fact that the game was a 1 TD game (a TD that was scored off a UNI fumble at the UNI 2 yard line) and UNI missing their starting RB and played a rFr backup QB for the 4th quarter, leads me to believe the teams are pretty even....Game in Fargo=NDSU win...game in CF=UNI win...game on nuetral site=toss up.

[mlbowl]

NDSU has 1 FCS loss to an unranked FCS team - that UNI beat missing 2 key players
UNI has one FCS loss to NDSU

Unless the FBS game is a massive upset (which NDSU/Minn wasn't) or a massive blowout (which UNI/ISU wasn't) I throw those out.

It could be said their resume is almost identical, and it could be argued that UNI had a better FCS OOC SOS.


Like I said, the fact that the game was a 1 TD game (a TD that was scored off a UNI fumble at the UNI 2 yard line) and UNI missing their starting RB and played a rFr backup QB for the 4th quarter, leads me to believe the teams are pretty even....Game in Fargo=NDSU win...game in CF=UNI win...game on nuetral site=toss up.

Spin it any way you like...The fact remains that NDSU has a better record AND the head to head win over UNI.