NCAA Remains Firm on UND/Nickname

[JBB]

Is the Big Sky concerned? UND will not be allowed to host playoff games and other sanctions will be enforced. UND had asked for the NCAA position now that they were "forced" by state law to use the nickname. A law that is unconstitutional by the way.

In a letter to UND president the NCAA said North Dakota State law does not alter NCAA policy.

“The NCAA’s position regarding its relationship with the State of North Dakota on this issue is set forth in the parties’ binding settlement agreement signed Oct. 26, 2007,” Franklin wrote.

“In that document, it was agreed that the policy will apply to North Dakota unless North Dakota either (1) secures namesake approval by Nov. 30, 2010, or (2) transitions away from the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo before Aug. 15, 2011.”

The state “did not obtain necessary support from the identified Sioux tribes,” he noted, and Kelley’s letter on Friday “makes clear that North Dakota will not transition from the current nickname and logo.”

Consequently, “North Dakota will be subject to the provisions of the policy,” Franklin wrote.

Those provisions include sanctions barring UND teams from hosting post-season tournaments or wearing proscribed attire during such tournaments.

Earl Strinden thinks things are going to work out:

Strinden, a former Republican majority leader in the state House, said he’s convinced the NCAA leaders still could be moved.

“I’m not surprised by this, and I’m not concerned about it,” he said. “The fact that the meeting was going to be an open meeting caused them to cancel, but there will be, I’m confident, a meeting coming up when the Legislature is over.

“They were coming to North Dakota” until they learned the meeting would be open. “Why would they come to North Dakota if they weren’t willing to talk about it?”

I wouldn't be so sure Earl. What exactly does the NCAA have to gain by acquiescing to UNDs demands? UND has had a lifetime to solve this and the agreement with the NCAA is now more than 3 yrs old.

[lakesbison]

Turtle mountain tribes passed 5-0 a resolution OPPOSING the nickname today.

Plains Indians ( 7 tribes coalition ) OPPOSES it 7- 0

Standing Rock has never voted YES on it, OPPOSED.

NCAA signed an agreement with und and nodaks attorney general.

What the heck more do these arrogant, racist and twisting nincompoops need to get it????

[AZGrizFan]

I can't understand why NDSU fans are so obsessed with UND's nickname.

You boys have nickname envy?

[FargoBison]

For most of us it is just fun sitting back and watching the never ending drama unfold.

That said for lakes and JBB it is about an obsession that goes way beyond the nickname.

[AZGrizFan]

For most of us it is just fun sitting back and watching the never ending drama unfold.

That said for lakes and JBB it is about an obsession that goes way beyond the nickname.

Gee...ya think?

[FargoBison]

For most of us it is just fun sitting back and watching the never ending drama unfold.

That said for lakes and JBB it is about an obsession that goes way beyond the nickname.

Gee...ya think?

It is obvious but some don't know just how far back and deep it goes. At one point Bisonville had a section dedicated just to UND because some people couldn't handle themselves, after the owner realized that was a horrible idea he just flat out said no more UND talk and that about killed a few people(a few post here).

[citdog]

I SALUTE UND for standing up to the racist, economic terrorists! The GREAT and SOVEREIGN State of South Carolina stands with you, as we are also under an ncaa sanction and are prepared to fight with you! If it's ok with you we already got uniforms and everything!

[lakesbison]

We are just sick of the bs and waste of taxpayer money.

[SuperHornet]

What a freaking Catch 22. Either the school violates state law and loses funding from THAT source or they obey the law but get screwed by the NCAA. Yet NEITHER entity has any business telling the school what to do. This is a name that was probably voted on by the entire student body at some time or another. Since when does the NCAA have the power to tell the general student body where to go? All that's going to happen is that at some point, the state law will be revoked as untenable, the school changes the name to "comply" with the NCAA's bogus requirement, but the student body will STILL refer to the teams as the Sioux because the NCAA can't legislate Joe Student.

[Mike Johnson]

Personally, I continue to believe that it was pro-NDSU legislators who pushed this.

Although I believe both the NCAA and the state were unwise in their decisions, I do believe both have the authority to do what they did. Unfortunately, a fine institution is stuck in the middle. And the people who seem to be getting the most personal fulfillment out of it are the NDSU fans. I was and could still be a fan of NDSU, but the way their fans are so obsessed with all things UND and are ecstatic at UND's troubles, prevents me from caring about NDSU.

I continue to advocate that UND adopt the "Buffalo hunter" or "Bison slayer". That would get them out of the NCAA-imposed crap. The state action, however, protects NDSU from UND doing so.

[mgbison]

Und had an agreement with the ncaa to retire the nickname and then after that agreement was signed und went and tried to get a nd law to support the nickname. The ncaa has its rules against hostile and abusive nicknames and the ncaa is clear on what needs to be done to keep the indian nicknames and the tribes didn't approve it. und unsuccessfully challenged the ncaa in court, and then went against the court rulings and the ncaa ruling and are keeping the nickname. now its wait and see what the ncaa will do with und.

the funny thing is a lot of und fans would rather keep the nickname and never host a home ncaa playoff game. The dumb thing is future recruits who would be playing in those games could care less what und's mascot is. it would suck to have to change your nickname, but not the end of the world. it would maybe even be kinda fun to come up with a new mascot (let alumni and students vote or something. Bison slayers would be cool. They could pick a traditional name or go mls style and be called something modern and unique.

I feel bad for the ad and school president up there. both of those two guys don't have any attachment to a nickname and would like to move the school in the right direction, but are having to deal with this issue. It must also make scheduling a pain in the ars because a lot of schools have policies where they won't play teams with hostile and abusive nicknames. Wisconsin, Minnesota for example.

NDSU didn't make the ncaa's hostile and abusive nickname policy. We have to read about this every day in the fargo forum though and thats whats annoying to most bison fans. the ncaa has rules, the ncaa is a voluntary league, if you don't like or want to follow the rules get out.

[JBB]

FargoBison is full of pandering drivel. BV is littered with UND threads, talk and posts. He and others have their own obsessions and they tip their hands from time to time. No, not everybody is as awe struck by BV and the hypocrites who dictate its message. FargoBison is welcome to his own opinion however, and I believe I am welcome to mine.

[JBB]

The Fargo Forum checks in today calling UND nickname supporters foolish and likening them to hard headed mules that dont even recognize they have been hit between the eyes with a 2x4. They were clear about consequences too:

...the NCAA intends to adhere to its provisions. A spokesman for the collegiate athletic association was crystal clear about that this week. The Legislature’s less-than-thoughtful stance will have no effect on the NCAA’s position regarding the logo. And what will that mean?

It means UND athletes will suffer the heaviest consequences of the Legislature’s action. It means rabid logo supporters who claim to love their university will visit damage upon the school’s image, the state’s reputation and, most importantly, the student athletes who excel in UND’s sports programs.

The NCAA said unequivocally that UND will not be allowed to host post-season games. When UND athletes participate in post-season games elsewhere, they will not be allowed to wear or otherwise display the Fighting Sioux logo. What the NCAA did not say, but what is a genuine possibility, is that some universities will decline regular-season competition with UND (or at UND) because of the logo. http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/316817/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They also commented on Earl Strindens contention that the NCAA will come around to their way of thinking:

“Not concerned about it,” said logo fan and former North Dakota House Majority Leader Earl Strinden of Grand Forks. A supporter of the Legislature’s foolish action, Strinden is on the wrong side of history on this one.
http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/316817/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

None of this can be good for the Big Sky. No wonder Fullerton was saying that if UND left "properly" there would be no penalty, the million dollar early withdrawal fee would be waived.

This mess is a big reason why UND did not get the invite to the MVFC and the Summit. I believe had they been invited to the Summit that invitation would now be withdrawn because they are not living up to their own agreement with the NCAA. Furthermore, as stated in the Forum editorial today, it is UNDs own influential supporters that coerced the legislature into passing the ridiculous, and possibly unconstitutional, "Nickname Law" thereby creating their own catch-22.

[JBB]

Hey Mike, picking up the name Bison Hunter or some such juvenile thing would be a nod to tradition. NDSU changed their name from the Aggies to THE BISON only to see UND change theirs from the Flickertails to the Sioux because, as they stated, Sioux hunt Bison, so you see, you aren't to far from history with that one and right on track to be a UND type thinker yourself!

[AZGrizFan]

Hey Mike, picking up the name Bison Hunter or some such juvenile thing would be a nod to tradition. NDSU changed their name from the Aggies to THE BISON only to see UND change theirs from the Flickertails to the Sioux because, as they stated, Sioux hunt Bison, so you see, you aren't to far from history with that one and right on track to be a UND type thinker yourself!

Jesus you guys are a bunch of fucking crybabies.

[EWURanger]

IMO, the ND legislature is doing the University a grave dis-service. I cannot imagine that this is good for recruiting and/or booster support. UND is definitely in a Catch-22 - didn't I read somewhere that they're waiting on a massive donation to the athletics department, but that it is contingent on the guarantee that they will not retire the Sioux mascot? Wonder how they reconcile that one.

I think UND may have lost this fight. Just change the logo. In the grand scheme of things, it's not that big of a deal. Eastern Washington used to be the "Savages" but changed it back in the 60's to the "Eagles"......for obvious reasons.

[EWURanger]

None of this can be good for the Big Sky. No wonder Fullerton was saying that if UND left "properly" there would be no penalty, the million dollar early withdrawal fee would be waived.

Expand on this a little - not familiar with this quote.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

IMO, the ND legislature is doing the University a grave dis-service. I cannot imagine that this is good for recruiting and/or booster support. UND is definitely in a Catch-22 - didn't I read somewhere that they're waiting on a massive donation to the athletics department, but that it is contingent on the guarantee that they will not retire the Sioux mascot? Wonder how they reconcile that one.

I think UND may have lost this fight. Just change the logo. In the grand scheme of things, it's not that big of a deal. Eastern Washington used to be the "Savages" but changed it back in the 60's to the "Eagles"......for obvious reasons.

Oh how I wish we were still the Savages. The name is just so... savage. Roos Field would be known as the scalping grounds. Or the (blood) letting field.

[lakesbison]

Here is the reasoning why American Indians want the logo gone in their own words. Please pay close attention to the part about logo use being dehumanizing and disrespectful:

Resolution No. 14-3-23-11 April 13 2011


GREAT PLAINS TRIBAL CHAIRMAN’S ASSOCIATION (GPTCA)


Support the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) policy to eliminate use
Of American Indian nicknames, logos and mascots and oppose dehumanizing and racist statement about American Indians.


WHEREAS, the Great Plains Tribal Chairman’s Association (GPTCA) is composed of the 16 elected
Chairs and Presidents or their duly appointed representatives of the sovereign Indian
Tribes and Nations recognized by Treaties entered into with the United States that are
within the Great Plains Region of the Bureau of Indian Affairs; and


WHEREAS, the Great Plains Tribal Chairman’s Association was formed to promote the common
interests of the sovereign Indian Tribes of the Great Plains and their members in the states of ND, SD and NE; and

WHEREAS, the United States has recognized the sovereign status of Tribal Nations through the
U.S. Constitution, treaties and by numerous federal statutes; and


WHEREAS, We reaffirm our previous actions and support the action of other entities such as the
National Congress of American Indians and the National Indian Education Association
To oppose the use of American Indians as school nicknames, logos and mascots; and
WHEREAS, We further support recent actions by the University of North Dakota (UND) University
Senate, UND Student Senate, the North Dakota State Board of Higher Education and
the North Dakota Senate Education Committee in calling for the elimination of the
fighting Sioux nickname and logo at UND; and

WHEREAS, We further support the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) policy that calls
for the elimination of the use of American Indian nicknames, logos and mascots at
colleges and universities; and


NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, we conclude that the use of American Indians for school
nicknames, logos and mascots at colleges and universities continues to be
dehumanizing and disrespectful to American Indians and is a racist statement
regardless if any state government may pass it as a state law and/or policy; and




NOW, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, the GPTCA will submit this Resolution to our Congressional
Delegations, Colleges and Universities and others to educate them; and

NOW, THEREFORE BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED that this resolution shall be the policy of
The Great Plains Tribal Chairman’s Association until otherwise amended or rescinded or
until the goal of this Resolution has been accomplished.


Resolution No. 14-3-23-11
CERTIFICATION

[octiparan]

I SALUTE UND for standing up to the racist, economic terrorists! The GREAT and SOVEREIGN State of South Carolina stands with you, as we are also under an ncaa sanction and are prepared to fight with you! If it's ok with you we already got uniforms and everything!

Umm...you do realize that is a Sherman tank the rebs are sitting on don't you? You know, like the Sherman that marched to the sea back in 1864.

[JBB]

Hey Mike, picking up the name Bison Hunter or some such juvenile thing would be a nod to tradition. NDSU changed their name from the Aggies to THE BISON only to see UND change theirs from the Flickertails to the Sioux because, as they stated, Sioux hunt Bison, so you see, you aren't to far from history with that one and right on track to be a UND type thinker yourself!

Jesus you guys are a bunch of **** crybabies.

Thats the history of their nickname/mascot, I was just pointing out that Mike was on their level.

I dont have a link to the Fullerton quote, it was said just after USD denied the invitationto to the BSC. Now Im afraid the BSC is stuck with UND. The Summit wont take them because they have the unresolved issue with the nickname. Thats what kept them out when USD got the invite.

According to todays article the State Legeslature caved to pressure from powerful nickname supporters. UND got what they wanted. I havent heard anything about the big donor but Engelstad was going to stop construction on the skating rink and threatened the Governor during construction that he would do just that if UND changed the nickname. What happens to the skating rink is still up in the air if the name is changed. UND doesnt own it, they have a 30 yr lease and if successfully fulfilled they are supposed to get possesion at the end.

[Grizalltheway]

I SALUTE UND for standing up to the racist, economic terrorists! The GREAT and SOVEREIGN State of South Carolina stands with you, as we are also under an ncaa sanction and are prepared to fight with you! If it's ok with you we already got uniforms and everything!

Umm...you do realize that is a Sherman tank the rebs are sitting on don't you? You know, like the Sherman that marched to the sea back in 1864.

Southerners.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

I SALUTE UND for standing up to the racist, economic terrorists! The GREAT and SOVEREIGN State of South Carolina stands with you, as we are also under an ncaa sanction and are prepared to fight with you! If it's ok with you we already got uniforms and everything!

Umm...you do realize that is a Sherman tank the rebs are sitting on don't you? You know, like the Sherman that marched to the sea back in 1864.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Personally, I continue to believe that it was pro-NDSU legislators who pushed this.

Although I believe both the NCAA and the state were unwise in their decisions, I do believe both have the authority to do what they did. Unfortunately, a fine institution is stuck in the middle. And the people who seem to be getting the most personal fulfillment out of it are the NDSU fans. I was and could still be a fan of NDSU, but the way their fans are so obsessed with all things UND and are ecstatic at UND's troubles, prevents me from caring about NDSU.

I continue to advocate that UND adopt the "Buffalo hunter" or "Bison slayer". That would get them out of the NCAA-imposed crap. The state action, however, protects NDSU from UND doing so.

ND politics doesn't work that way. UND has the law school - and by extension, far more representation (in general) in Bismarck. Despite what JBB might tell you NDSU was the "little brother" school for 50 years or more. It wasn't until they made the move to D-I that the dynamic began changing. As it is, the politics of the nickname are surrounded with cheap stunts, posturing and grandstanding beyond anything I can remember (especially since it's such a nonsense waste of time) - you can still get mileage in ND politics pushing bills like the one they passed.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

What a freaking Catch 22. Either the school violates state law and loses funding from THAT source or they obey the law but get screwed by the NCAA. Yet NEITHER entity has any business telling the school what to do. This is a name that was probably voted on by the entire student body at some time or another. Since when does the NCAA have the power to tell the general student body where to go? All that's going to happen is that at some point, the state law will be revoked as untenable, the school changes the name to "comply" with the NCAA's bogus requirement, but the student body will STILL refer to the teams as the Sioux because the NCAA can't legislate Joe Student.

1. UND is under no obligation to stay in the NCAA. It's a voluntary membership organization - they are well within their rights to set conditions on membership.

2. The state lawmakers passed the law specifically to create a catch-22. As much as I don't like it, the state has every right to pass a law instructing a public university on how to conduct itself... is it an overreach in to painfully minor area? you bet. (see my previous thread for the why and wherefore)

3. The entire student body will move on, just like every student body everywhere moves on in a few years. You don't hear Eastern Michigan fans shouting "GO HURONS!" anymore... those things work themselves out over a period of a few years. Especially if the new nickname is a good one (like Roughriders)