Preseason Poll

[kuntryboimike]

The idea has been brought up to have a vote on if we have a preseason poll. This poll could go on for a while and if there's more yes's then we can vote on how early we have the preseason poll. Then it's really up to the top dogs on CS to decide what action to take. I no a lot are against it and there are those that aren't. it's just something to talk about even if it is "pointless". So here's the poll (i hope i do this right never done it before...)

[danefan]

I voted no. I think it will detract from validity of the regular season poll.

There are positives, but they are outweighed by the negatives, IMO.

[dgreco]

i love the preseason poll just to see how far off or accurate it is.

Why not do a preseason poll and then wait the 2 or 3 weeks until the regular season poll comes out. A few organizations do that with other sports, mainly lacrosse, they wait for a few games in after pre season poll before they release the first regular season poll.

[Montanan]

preseason polls are more abt fans than football, and this being a football fan's forum, sure, why not.

[DukeJack]

I voted no. Due to the release schedule of the poll last year, it makes no sense to have a preseason poll, and then to stop for a month or so and begin releasing ours. If we were continuously putting one out every week throughout the whole season I would be in favor of it, but disagree with our current release schedule.

[kuntryboimike]

pretty even...gonna need more votes one sided, either way, for a majority vote IMO

[green&gold75]

Don't care for the inertia that always seems to follow preseason polls. Once that first poll is out, too many voters are slow to change their rankings based on how teams are really performing. Would vote yes if that weren't the case.

[pantherrob82]

Realistically, if we don't do a preseason poll, the voters who use the preseason poll the first week will just use someone elses preseason poll.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Don't care for the inertia that always seems to follow preseason polls. Once that first poll is out, too many voters are slow to change their rankings based on how teams are really performing. Would vote yes if that weren't the case.

Yeah, that is the problem I struggle with on this issue cuz I don't know how to get rid of that.


Just spit balling here...what if we did a preseason ballot that is completely separate from our poll and is actually more like a contest to see who can come closest to the ACTUAL final rankings? The top 3 "guessers" can win something cool and that way it is a contest and not part of our actaul poll that starts in the 3rd week.

That keeps it separate and may actually take some homerism out of it to start the year because you are gonna be picking it base on the fact that you could win something and have the loftiness as being one of the guys that knew how the year was gonna end up before it even started.

It would still give us all the ballots to discuss and we could combine the ballot entries to post what the CS contest group thinks will be the final result.

I'd be willing to do it as an entry fee ($5) or something small like that with 100% payout or if that doesn't fly then maybe a few of us could just get some FCS prizes donated.

[Thumper 76]

Don't care for the inertia that always seems to follow preseason polls. Once that first poll is out, too many voters are slow to change their rankings based on how teams are really performing. Would vote yes if that weren't the case.

Yeah, that is the problem I struggle with on this issue cuz I don't know how to get rid of that.


Just spit balling here...what if we did a preseason ballot that is completely separate from our poll and is actually more like a contest to see who can come closest to the ACTUAL final rankings? The top 3 "guessers" can win something cool and that way it is a contest and not part of our actaul poll that starts in the 3rd week.

That keeps it separate and may actually take some homerism out of it to start the year because you are gonna be picking it base on the fact that you could win something and have the loftiness as being one of the guys that knew how the year was gonna end up before it even started.

It would still give us all the ballots to discuss and we could combine the ballot entries to post what the CS contest group thinks will be the final result.

I'd be willing to do it as an entry fee ($5) or something small like that with 100% payout or if that doesn't fly then maybe a few of us could just get some FCS prizes donated.

I like that idea alot better than preseason poll

[kuntryboimike]

here's the talk and ideas i was tlaking about earlier.

To Whom it May Concern...

Came across this post re: the CS.com Poll. Wanted to make sure that myself and many of the former AGS Poll participants were aware of the poll protocol. Are these guidelines going to hold? And when will the 100 posts need to be met by?

We have opened the registration for voting in the 2009 ChampionshipSubdivision.com FCS Top 25 Poll once again for those that DID NOT register initially! Here are the rules for registration.

1) Registrant must have at least 100 posts upon registration
2) Must declare a home team and cannot change home teams during the season.
3) Must provide a valid email address. Voters providing invalid addresses will have their ballots nullified.
4) Voters found to have registered under two or more names will be ineligible to vote for remainder of season.

Register: http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/ ... istration/

Chris or whomever, perhaps as we move closer to the new year, I can discuss some ideas with you to get the poll some more attention on the national level.

The CS.com poll does not begin until October? If so, is that done so teams can get a few games under their belt?


I would tend to agree, but I do not think there is a way to verify. I am sure we can easily confirm some of the long-time members were active on AGS, but what about the others? It would be relatively difficult.

Either way, I think with all the new members coming this way - many of whom were on AGS - it would be important to promote the poll early and often, so there can be tons of votes!

Exactly. Preseason polls are useless.

Exactly. Preseason polls are useless.

I think preseason polls do serve a few purposes, namely putting a few teams on people's radars, who would not have been otherwise.

Of course, you do have teams like Notre Dame in FBS and a few in FCS - who will go unmentioned - that seem to get their share of votes in every preseason poll and do not fall out of the poll(s) until they take a loss they should not have.

I'm not a fan of preseason polls but there are two things going for them. It brings in discussion during the slow summer months and if the poll wants to be more recognizable nationally then it will need to be around when the other national polls come out.

Correct...

And outside of that issue, the CS.com poll comes out later than all the others, which really makes it insignificant for the media relations people who want to lump all the poll results into one release. I understand why the poll starting in October is nice, but it does nothing to help the perception and recognition of the poll.

First effort last year and completely built in house so we needed to streamline the process a bit and figure out what we were doing along the way. We knew all along that it was basically a prototype and we were more interested in getting decent results as opposed to the timliness of it. We've digested the first few bites and now it's time to finish the meal and firm up what it will be in the future. The suggestions are good so keep em' coming.

agreed, keep the suggestions coming as the hard work was all done last year, now we can fine tune it to make it LEGIT

If you do not do polls during the first few weeks - your poll does not gain much traction.

If the point of this poll is to just have fun amongst each other, that's one thing. If it is to have a poll with some national credibility and respect, you need to go each week...

GPI, Harris Poll, etc all don't do preseason.

The reason I can't stand early season polls is that there is nothing to base them on except reputation and guess work. Then, teams ranked high get breaks, while teams that may have been off the radar at the beginning of the season have to struggle to gain recognition.

If posters were willing to stop doing the "well, team A won by one point, while team B won by 40, but I can't drop team A because they won" bull ****, then fine. But I have seen it time and time again where teams stay ranked because they started high in preseason.

How about a preseason poll that goes by another name, then gets replaced by the CS poll?

Weeks 1-3 have the FCS Early Season Poll, after that it's the official CS.com Poll?

There's a real good idea in there. If it was a deal where people would completely reevaluate in week 3 or 4 and give up the trying to reconcile what they thought last week with what is actually happening then it would be a real good thing.

Or how about having the preseason poll as a continuation of the previous season's last poll?

Pre-season polls are not worth squat...as are polls the first three weeks of the season...

I hope we don't change...

Ditto. Its because people vote on last yr's results, and last yr's results should be irrelevant. There are SO many things that change every year: players lost to graduation, or a myriad of other offseason issues: academics, medical, personal, legal. New players coming aboard, be they HS recruits, post grad, JUCO, Div I transfers. Coaching changes, be it the HC or on the staff. New offenses or defenses put in. Injuries during summer camp.

Pre season polls are for retards. Polls in Sept are retarded. KEEP IT THE WAY IT IS.

Pre season polls are almost as retarded as those retards who do pre season playoff prognostication threads before a single damn game has been played.

well. i no preseason polls are stupid, pointless, retarded, etc....wutever u wanna call it. BUT it gives us something to talk about. tell other people there smokin crack blah blah blah. gives people a chance to tell me im retarded and me to tell them i no or WUTEVER. my point is its just something to do and its 1more thing to talk about once its started. and if u really dont want preseason polls, then dont do it. ignore it. but for those of us that LIVE off of cs.com cuz we're bored out of our mind due to deployment or w/e let us be stupid, retarded, and have our fun. just my thoughts

All points are valid. TT's concerns re: gaining a media foothold are important not merely for marketing, but to attract increased voter particpation during the season (which will - as a rule - increase the poll's accuracy).

I personally agree with Col. Hogan, AZ, etc, that *predicting* team strength before the season begins is futile and mostly an exercise in homerism. How many times have we all studied the depth charts, watched weeks of practice, confident that a team is "near perfect" only to watch them go out and get demolished by an unranked team? Personally, I still love going to practices, but don't make any assessments until at least a couple of weeks into the season (and have seen some of the top teams play).

Given all this, I vote that we go ahead this year and do a preseason poll, but get a running start, set a date and begin discussing the ranking criteria in a "sticky" thread (so everyone understands it's not a popularity poll) at least a month before the vote.

+1

i guess an easy way to solve whether we do or dont have a preseason poll is to make a poll on here.
"do you want a preseason poll"
yes
no
"If yes when would u like the first preseason poll to happen?"
1 week before game day
2 weeks before game day
3 weeks before game day etc.....

and after a while of leaving this poll up then majority rules i guess...

just an example/thought.

verdict?

I think you have good points and it does drive a lot of discussion. I wouldn't mind seeing a preseasone poll that was unofficial until the first few games were out of the way.

if there is to be a poll of this type, it needs to be totally disenfranchised from the CS Poll, lets call it what it is:
a speculative poll,
an opinion poll,
a homer's poll,
a long diddy pole,
etc...

Do we really need to do a preseason poll?

The only reason I see in doing it to strike up some conversation. Well guess what - they'll be at least 2 other preseason polls issued (TSN and AGS) that will undoubetedly strike up some conversation.

Perhaps we just leave to the other guys to create a crappy preseason poll for us to rip apart?

I feel ya dogsy's but is there something we can do to keep ours as it is and still get some added benefits out of the preseason thing? I mean come on, we're some fairly sharp dudes here so we should be able to come up with something workable without taking away from what we've done already. I do like ours the way it it first and foremost but I see some advantages for discussion with starting up SOMETHING earlier.

I think there's a certain importance to doing a preseason poll. 1. Conversation. 2. Despite if we think it's a dumb idea or not, we have to get our name out there. To be recognized, our name has to be out there.. and if we have no preseason poll and our name isn't out there then we become irrelevant. We want our poll up side by side with AGS and TSNs every week.. so while we might think it's a bad idea, it has to be done for the sake of gaining popularity and credibility. You know what poll doesn't come out until midseason? The BCS poll. Do we want to be like that evil? I'm thinking more from a marketing perspective than a content perspective.. we have to have our names out there, despite how trivial a preseason ranking might be.

i say we call it the homer poll haha! just for fun? i dunno. i still say let us vote starting like...TODAY and see how many want it compared to how many dont. majority wins kinda thing. it'd be something to do!!! and like yall said more conversation. i like the idea.

Agreed. I think we should vote on the preseason thing. We did a great job getting input gettnig the poll put together. Why change it now?

im sure every1 has noticed by now but just in case i did start that poll...

Why don't you link this thread in the poll for people so they can get the full picture as to the "for" and "against" reasons. I would like to see if people vote that they have the reasons it should/shoudn't be implemented.

THERE! whoo. thats everything thus far.

[kuntryboimike]

Yeah, that is the problem I struggle with on this issue cuz I don't know how to get rid of that.


Just spit balling here...what if we did a preseason ballot that is completely separate from our poll and is actually more like a contest to see who can come closest to the ACTUAL final rankings? The top 3 "guessers" can win something cool and that way it is a contest and not part of our actaul poll that starts in the 3rd week.

That keeps it separate and may actually take some homerism out of it to start the year because you are gonna be picking it base on the fact that you could win something and have the loftiness as being one of the guys that knew how the year was gonna end up before it even started.

It would still give us all the ballots to discuss and we could combine the ballot entries to post what the CS contest group thinks will be the final result.

I'd be willing to do it as an entry fee ($5) or something small like that with 100% payout or if that doesn't fly then maybe a few of us could just get some FCS prizes donated.

I like that idea alot better than preseason poll

i like it too! my wife would kill me if i spent 5 dollars like that tho =/

[pantherrob82]

Idiot voters vote like idiots regardless of whether or not there was a preseason poll.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I like that idea alot better than preseason poll

i like it too! my wife would kill me if i spent 5 dollars like that tho =/

You gotta be shittin' me KBM! How can a guy let this kind of shit get this out of hand!!

The fact that your wife gets to babysit your $5 like you're an infant aside...we can do it for some cheap shit also, it's a just some suggestions.

[Col Hogan]

I voted no. I think it will detract from validity of the regular season poll.

There are positives, but they are outweighed by the negatives, IMO.

I disagree that there are ANY positives...but fully agree that a preseason poll will detract from the validity of the regular season poll...


NO PRESEASON POLL!!!

[Thumper 76]

i like it too! my wife would kill me if i spent 5 dollars like that tho =/

Its not spending it if your good Tell her your investing it

[kuntryboimike]

lol well when u had to take out lots....and....*erm* lots of student loans to pay off school. money gets rough lol

[JALMOND]

For me, I prepare a preseason poll just for myself. Usually, though, I wait until August, right before the season begins. I put a stronger emphasis on fall ball than spring ball. I take a look at other polls and publications, try to do some evaluating and form my own top 25. It sets me up for the rest of the season.

[kuntryboimike]

hmmm still all tied up. looks like its gonna be split right down the middle cuz it keeps goin back and forth.

[kuntryboimike]

how many people are members of this site anyway???

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

how many people are members of this site anyway???

1600 plus right now. It has been growing quite a bit over the last year because we got out 1000th member here about 6 months ago.

Check the bottom of the "board index" page for stats and information like that if you want to see it progress.

[kuntryboimike]

oh cool! always learnin somethin new. thanks. ALTHOUGH i thinkits kinda sad only 42 people have voted on this topic out of 1600. i guess people dont check this as much as some of us do or they just dont care =/ hmm

[JALMOND]

oh cool! always learnin somethin new. thanks. ALTHOUGH i thinkits kinda sad only 42 people have voted on this topic out of 1600. i guess people dont check this as much as some of us do or they just dont care =/ hmm

I didn't vote. It doesn't matter to me. Good arguments on both sides of the issue. As I posted before, I do make a preseason poll myself but I usually wait until close to the end of fall ball. Most preseason polls are out way before then.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

oh cool! always learnin somethin new. thanks. ALTHOUGH i thinkits kinda sad only 42 people have voted on this topic out of 1600. i guess people dont check this as much as some of us do or they just dont care =/ hmm

266 have been active over the last 24 hrs. so that is a more legit # to look at and this isn't an issue that EVERYBODY cares about. Your core group are gonna be the poll voters and those that are planning on voting in the poll. I would bet you that a good # of those active came on for a few minutes, made a post on something they were following and then scooted.

40 responses in it's first day up isn't too bad IMO. This thing is gonna be split right down the middle anyway as it has been in all discussions previously. I don't think you were posting on here too much when we started the discussion on how the poll would work...there were 300+ posts in the thread and probably only 10 of us that were really hashing out so the discussions and pros & cons have been exhaustively examined already.

[kuntryboimike]

oh ya ur right i must have missed that thread or i wouldnt have broughtit up again ha. oh well. well thanks for the info.