How come the NCAA doesn't enforce this?

[BlackFalkin]

No other NCAA sport besides FBS football has a minimum attendance requirement.
No other NCAA sport besides FBS football has a minimum scholarship requirement.
No other NCAA sport besides FBS football facilitates 4th string players receiving full scholarships.
No other NCAA sport besides FBS football has had a minimum stadium capacity requirement.*
No other NCAA team sport besides FBS football ends without a playoff.

FBS was intentionally set up to make money for a certain small group of universities and to discourage competition. There is no other reason for it to exist, and that is why the equivalent will never exist in any other sport except maybe men's basketball.

(* no longer a requirement)

[dbackjon]

E. Mich

03': 11,258 (3-9)
04': 16,060 (4-7)
05': 5,219 (4-7)
06': 14,734 (1-11)
07': 7,448 (4-8)
08': 18,951 (3-9)
09: 5,016 (0-12)

What a schizophrenic fanbase

Even years, their two closest rivals (distance wise), Central Michigan and Toledo play at EMU. I would guess that they bring decent crowds with them.

[Silenoz]

It looks like those were actually the lowest attendance games of the 2008 season

I can't believe I'm doing research on Eastern Michigan football

[Silenoz]

2008 Indiana State @ Eastern Michgian 17,000+
2009 Temple @ Eastern Michigan 3,364
2009 Ball State @ Eastern Michigan 1,535



I'm just going to stick with my theory that they're crazy

[dbackjon]

It looks like those were actually the lowest attendance games of the 2008 season

I can't believe I'm doing research on Eastern Michigan football

Holy cow - so what games are people going to??

[dbackjon]

The football team plays one home game a year at Ford Field in downtown Detroit annually since 2004 in the "Collegiate Clash". They have hosted Central Michigan University (2004), Western Michigan University (2005), the United States Naval Academy (2006), and Northwestern University (2007). Since winning the first Ford Field game over CMU in triple overtime 61-58, they have lost three in a row. Traditionally, the program has problems attracting fans to their football games each season. NCAA rules state that in order to stay in Division I-A for football, each team must attract an average of 15,000 fans per game. During a 1-11 season, Eastern's EMU Foundation purchased 5,000 tickets for local high school students to curb this threat to their status. The annual game at Ford Field also boosts their average attendance.

[collegesportsinfo]

The NCAA implemented their 15k attendance requirement in 02' and claimed they were going to begin enforcing it in 04':

Football Bowl Subdivision -- Membership Requirements
3. Average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a
rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.3]
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/b96 ... 1ad6fc8b25

NCAA football attendance from 98'-08'
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome ... index.html

Attendance 09':
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2009/Internet/ ... NDANCE.pdf

Utah State
03': 14,921
04': 4,875
05': 10,896
06': 11,360
07': 13,131
08': 14,736
09': 15,971

E. Mich
03': 11,258
04': 16,060
05': 5,219
06': 14,734
07': 7,448
08': 18,951
09: 5,016

Kent State:
03': 8,524
04': 12,877
05': 6, 658
06': 17,004
07': 8,999
08': 10,639
09': 15,512

Idaho:
03':12,064
04' 16,620 (and over half that seasons fans from 4 home games came from a "home" game at Wash St).
05':15,175
06': 14,543
07': 11,479
08': 15,340
09': 12,546

FIU:
06': 15,110
07': 7,982
08': 13,852
09:' 10,204

Rice:
03': 20,512
04': 15,785
05': 10,072
06': 14,760
07': 13,353
08': 20,179
09': 13,552

Ball Sate:
06': 15,061
07': 13,085
08': 19,201

Buffalo:
06': 16,417
07': 13,568
08': 16,924

So since 04, when the NCAA claimed they were going to enforce the new attendance requirement:
-Utah State, E Mich, and Kent State have NEVER been in compliance.
-Idaho has been out of compliance since 05'..
-Rice was out of compliance 04'-07'
-ball State and Buffalo were out of compliance 06' to 07'.

So how come the NCAA isn't enforcing their rule and booted those 8 teams back down to I-AA, or at least the 3 who've NEVER been in compliance?

I think I can answer your question and put an end to this thread.

The reason the "rule" was put in place was to prevent non-FBS schools from moving up before being close to what is considered the standard type of program. In basketball, we have way too many schools in D1 that can't fill a 2,000 person gym. While they are D1, they are clearly a step down from what the average D1 basketball program should be.

For football, the "rule" exists simply to prevent a mass exodus of FCS or D2 schools from upgrading.

As for teams being "kicked out", that is not an option. Again, because the rule was put in place to prevent new schools from upgrading as opposed to penalizing existing FBS football schools.

And think of the logistics: if the NCAA "demoted" a school, what happens to their conference? What if the WAC lost 3-4 members and fell below the NCAA requirements for basketball autobids. The WAC would be losing millions in basketball over something that has nothing to do with that sport.

And then there are the schools.

What is the NCAA going to do, force NMSU, San Jose St., Idaho, along with MAC and Sunbelt schools to form a non-football conference? Do they FORCE the Big Sky to add more members against their will? Do they force the A-Sun to grow to 16-18 teams with the Sunbelt schools? Of course not. Because the NCAA does not control the conference memberships. IF they did, then the "demotion" idea might work. But there is no way the NCAA can force a school out of an FBS conference if it is not the one controlling where the new home would be.

[Silenoz]

I dunno, I'm going through every home game for each season, and it is pretty much black and white across the board. One season they go to games, the next they don't. Maybe ESPN is just retarded and screwed up the data

[dbackjon]

I dunno, I'm going through every home game for each season, and it is pretty much black and white across the board. One season they go to games, the next they don't. Maybe ESPN is just retarded and screwed up the data

I did a little research on last year, and three of the lowest attended home games were at the same time as a home game at the Big House, 11 miles away.

Wonder if that pattern holds - people will go to the game as long as Michigan doesn't have a home game.

[SuperHornet]

Who said anybody booted out of FBS HAD to leave their conferences? Theoretically, they could stay as bowl non-eligible/non-counters. Most conferences would voluntarily drop those teams for that very reason. But if there's a significant rivalry involved, that might prompt a conference to keep such a team.

Of course, it would open up a can of worms in terms of the post season. Sure, such a team wouldn't be eligible for a bowl. But would they be eligible for a FCS playoff at large? Who would vote for them? Ah, football limbo....

[Fresno St. Alum]

Who said anybody booted out of FBS HAD to leave their conferences? Theoretically, they could stay as bowl non-eligible/non-counters. Most conferences would voluntarily drop those teams for that very reason. But if there's a significant rivalry involved, that might prompt a conference to keep such a team.

Of course, it would open up a can of worms in terms of the post season. Sure, such a team wouldn't be eligible for a bowl. But would they be eligible for a FCS playoff at large? Who would vote for them? Ah, football limbo....

Because if you don't sponsor FBS football you can't be in any fbs conf. but the Sun Belt or Big East. Plus if enough members of the WAC didn't qualify as FBS counters than the WAC wouldn't be a conf. for football.

[OhioHen]

2008 Indiana State @ Eastern Michgian 17,000+
2009 Temple @ Eastern Michigan 3,364
2009 Ball State @ Eastern Michigan 1,535



I'm just going to stick with my theory that they're crazy

Good attendance at the game they expected to win. Plain and simple.

BTW, paid attendance at the Bands of America Regional competition held in the same stadium in 2009 (High School Bands) was probably >5000.

[JSU02]

2008 Indiana State @ Eastern Michgian 17,000+
2009 Temple @ Eastern Michigan 3,364
2009 Ball State @ Eastern Michigan 1,535



I'm just going to stick with my theory that they're crazy

Good attendance at the game they expected to win. Plain and simple.

BTW, paid attendance at the Bands of America Regional competition held in the same stadium in 2009 (High School Bands) was probably >5000.

WOW. If you can't get more than 5,000 for a BOA regional, then you have problems. I guess EMU must not have a very good band either.

[SuperHornet]

Who said anybody booted out of FBS HAD to leave their conferences? Theoretically, they could stay as bowl non-eligible/non-counters. Most conferences would voluntarily drop those teams for that very reason. But if there's a significant rivalry involved, that might prompt a conference to keep such a team.

Of course, it would open up a can of worms in terms of the post season. Sure, such a team wouldn't be eligible for a bowl. But would they be eligible for a FCS playoff at large? Who would vote for them? Ah, football limbo....

Because if you don't sponsor FBS football you can't be in any fbs conf. but the Sun Belt or Big East. Plus if enough members of the WAC didn't qualify as FBS counters than the WAC wouldn't be a conf. for football.

If that's the case, then how do you explain associate memberships? Remember, Sac State IS a proud (and in fact DOMINATING) member of the WAC.

[Silenoz]

2008 Indiana State @ Eastern Michgian 17,000+
2009 Temple @ Eastern Michigan 3,364
2009 Ball State @ Eastern Michigan 1,535



I'm just going to stick with my theory that they're crazy

Good attendance at the game they expected to win. Plain and simple.

BTW, paid attendance at the Bands of America Regional competition held in the same stadium in 2009 (High School Bands) was probably >5000.

The conference games that year has similar attendance, so it wasn't the allure of ISU that brought those people in

[collegesportsinfo]

Because if you don't sponsor FBS football you can't be in any fbs conf. but the Sun Belt or Big East. Plus if enough members of the WAC didn't qualify as FBS counters than the WAC wouldn't be a conf. for football.

If that's the case, then how do you explain associate memberships? Remember, Sac State IS a proud (and in fact DOMINATING) member of the WAC.

And Robert Morris iand Sacred Heart are associate members in the CAA for lax. Binghamton an assmember in the CAA for wrestling.

Conferences sponsor non-revenue sports and allow associate members all the time. These non-revenue sports should not be considered a part of the equation ever.

This is about FBS football , not secondary sports, so there is no reason to bring up non-football sports.

[Fresno St. Alum]

Because if you don't sponsor FBS football you can't be in any fbs conf. but the Sun Belt or Big East. Plus if enough members of the WAC didn't qualify as FBS counters than the WAC wouldn't be a conf. for football.

If that's the case, then how do you explain associate memberships? Remember, Sac State IS a proud (and in fact DOMINATING) member of the WAC.

there is no other schools that can fill the void of the WAC losses as an associate member. Sac dominates? at some sport only you care about. Not Football, Basketball and Baseball(WAC sport) In fact Temple is the only associate member of a conf. in football at the FBS level. Navy, Army, Notre Dame won't join the WAC for football only thus reiterating my point if they did that it would kill WAC football so it won't happen.

[Fresno St. Alum]

If that's the case, then how do you explain associate memberships? Remember, Sac State IS a proud (and in fact DOMINATING) member of the WAC.

And Robert Morris iand Sacred Heart are associate members in the CAA for lax. Binghamton an assmember in the CAA for wrestling.

Conferences sponsor non-revenue sports and allow associate members all the time. These non-revenue sports should not be considered a part of the equation ever.

This is about FBS football , not secondary sports, so there is no reason to bring up non-football sports.

Quinn, she likes to argue just to let herself be heard, you can't reason with her. She thinks, Boise St. is the top candidate for the PAC 10 and that if UOP still had football they'd be in the PAC 10. she posted it on one of these expansion threads.