The "BS" part of FBS

[bluehenbillk]

"We can't have a playoff because it would be a disruption to academics". Everyone has heard this argument. Yet how many people saw UConn on national TV last week win the Big East crown with 5 victories in 5 straight days. Yep, I'm sure they were inundated with academia there.

The following week is today, the traditional opening day of March Madness. These teams playing today were required to be at the host city on Tuesday, and all the teams that win today won't make it back to campus until Sunday, say for except like 3 teams playing close to home.

The hypocrisy and just plain insane thinking of the presidents and AD's at this school never ceases to amaze.

[BlackFalkin]

"We can't have a playoff because it would be a disruption to academics". Everyone has heard this argument. Yet how many people saw UConn on national TV last week win the Big East crown with 5 victories in 5 straight days. Yep, I'm sure they were inundated with academia there.

The following week is today, the traditional opening day of March Madness. These teams playing today were required to be at the host city on Tuesday, and all the teams that win today won't make it back to campus until Sunday, say for except like 3 teams playing close to home.

The hypocrisy and just plain insane thinking of the presidents and AD's at this school never ceases to amaze.

Listen guy, we all know FBS is a fuckin rip. But we all ALSO know that the reason is & HAS ALWAYS BEEN $$. The only way playoffs can happen at the fbs level in to add at least 2 to 3 more games to each fbs schedule.

BCS GAME SPONSOR PAYOUT=18MILLION #FBS WINNING!


/thread

[SDHornet]

A playoff would add a lot more to everyone's bottom line than a few extra regular season games.

[CatMom]

Agreed SD....you guys really need to read "Death To The BCS"
The Mythical NC team doesn't even clear 50K most years
It's all a crock

(my husband is re-reading the damn book so he can argue with BCS proponents)

[bluehenbillk]

It's amazing this March on all the commentators that have suggested doing away with the watered-down tournament & going to a postseason bowl-like setup for basketball.

[CatMom]

Most of the BS comes from the BCS... because the guys running the BCS and the AQ Conferences are small minded thinking they will get less money if they open up the FBS with a Playoff. There is a plan put out there on ncaa2012.com that keeps a 12 games season for the FBS and has 24 Post Season Bowl games along with a 16 Team National Championship Playoff. The most games that will be played is 16 for the two teams in the National Championship game and then 15 games for two teams that lose in the semi-final round 3. The NCG would be the third or fourth week of January. That plan is great it has equal strength Conferences and as far as I can see has answered every question ever used to put down a playoff. go look at ncaa2012.com Just the FBS needs to become its own Division and they have to stop at 120 teams. Let teams in the FCS try to move up by knocking off a weak team already in the current 120. Sorry for my Texas State Bobcats and UTSA but we have to draw the line somewhere.

The BCS has everyone locked in until 2013 (if I recall correctly.) TXST and UTSA will officially be in the WAC on 1 July, 2012. Unless something really drastic happens the move will occur. Don't think the NCAA will arbitrarily say "you can't come now"
They could figure something out but they really can't force any school back down a division. (unless there are some major division rule changes I don't see happening.)

[philipsteele]

Yes i think BS is the part of FBS...

[OpieGSU]

Agreed SD....you guys really need to read "Death To The BCS"
The Mythical NC team doesn't even clear 50K most years
It's all a crock

50k? I find that hard to believe, However, even if we concede your figure is correct for argument's sake, successful FBS schools are on TV constantly, and reap the reward of that time, which is bascally free advertising. How much does it cost for a 3 hour block of ads on ESPN these days? Factor in that value, and it's easy to see why schools want to go FBS.

[clenz]

Agreed SD....you guys really need to read "Death To The BCS"
The Mythical NC team doesn't even clear 50K most years
It's all a crock

50k? I find that hard to believe, However, even if we concede your figure is correct for argument's sake, successful FBS schools are on TV constantly, and reap the reward of that time, which is bascally free advertising. How much does it cost for a 3 hour block of ads on ESPN these days? Factor in that value, and it's easy to see why schools want to go FBS.

I've heard the 07 Florida team didn't clear 100K. I think it was about 47K actually.

[OpieGSU]

50k? I find that hard to believe, However, even if we concede your figure is correct for argument's sake, successful FBS schools are on TV constantly, and reap the reward of that time, which is bascally free advertising. How much does it cost for a 3 hour block of ads on ESPN these days? Factor in that value, and it's easy to see why schools want to go FBS.

I've heard the 07 Florida team didn't clear 100K. I think it was about 47K actually.

cite your source. Quite frankly, I think it's a crock. When you take into account, merchandising, TV money,and the intangible value of the free advertising that having your football team on TV brings, then only a moron would say that UF made 100k in 07. Seriously. Some of you people are so blinded by your jealousy of FBS teams that you lose touch with reality. 100k. sure. wishful thinking by a poor FCS team.

[clenz]

I've heard the 07 Florida team didn't clear 100K. I think it was about 47K actually.

cite your source. Quite frankly, I think it's a crock. When you take into account, merchandising, TV money,and the intangible value of the free advertising that having your football team on TV brings, then only a moron would say that UF made 100k in 07. Seriously. Some of you people are so blinded by your jealousy of FBS teams that you lose touch with reality. 100k. sure. wishful thinking by a poor FCS team.

Since you refuse to do any research of your own, I’ll lay it out very simply from you. This is all from the book “Death to the BCS”. Read it carefully, you’ll see where it states Florida netted $47K by winning the national title….and they were the lucky ones.

A book review, since I know you'll refuse to read the whole thing, from http://onefootdown.fantake.com/2010/12/ ... ew-part-1/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chapter Four: Lies, Damn Lies, and Bowl Payouts
Chapter four goes into detail about how many bowl games lose universities thousands upon thousands of dollars despite the relative wealth earned by the bowls themselves.

A story is told about the 2008 Motor City Bowl and how San Jose State and Florida Atlantic tried to gain entrance to the postseason show by seeing who could bid the lowest and be accepted.

The game advertised a $750,000 payout, but Florida Atlantic settled on receiving zero cash, but 750k in tickets. Obviously, FAU was unable to sell that many tickets at full-price and ended up over $41,000 short of budget to send its 126-person traveling party to the bowl.

Other facts and figures:
*Bowl game appearances trigger bonuses for many coaches and athletic department staffers. Alabama paid a total of $1.3 million to its staff after the 2010 BCS title game.
*2008 Papajohns.com Bowl advertised a payout of $300,000, but required each school to sell 10,000 tickets. During this trip Rutgers lost $214,000 in unsold tickets, paid $270,000 in bonuses to its coaches and athletic department, and ultimately spent $1.2 million. Rutgers executives spent $28,950 getting to the game and spent $60,168 over the six days in Birmingham, Alabama. At the time the school was coming off a New Jersey state audit for its wasteful spending on their trip to the 2006 Texas Bowl.
*For the 2009 Outback Bowl, Iowa ate $150,000 in unsold tickets, spent $328,340 on its band for the trip, also being charged $65 per game ticket for each band member ($22,490 total).
*Ohio State spent $2 million to appear in the 2010 Rose Bowl and lost $1 million in unsold seats in the 2009 Fiesta Bowl. Maryland spent $1 million to play in the Humanitarian Bowl with a $750,000 payout. Virginia Tech spent $3.8 million for the 2009 Orange Bowl and lost $1.6 million.
*Florida’s appearance in the 2009 BCS title game came with an advertised payout of $17.5 million, but after the SEC took that money and other payouts from the conferences seven bowl games, Florida ended up with a payout of $2.467 million. After the costs of playing a bowl game within their own state, the Gators ended up with a profit of $47,000.

To quote the authors, “Bowl directors estimate that only fourteen of the thirty-five games generate a legitimate profit for the participating teams.


Do you want more proof?

[clenz]

Here's chapter 3

Chapter Three: Obstruction of Justice

This chapter looks at how corrupt and full of deceit the BCS powers-that-be truly are. It begins with a look back at CEO of the Alamo Bowl Derrick Fox’s testimony in front of the House Energy and Commerce subcommittee in May 2009.

A playoff system would cripple these bowl directors gravy train and they will do anything to prop up the current BCS system.

Fox stated before Congress, “Almost all postseason bowl games are put on by charitable groups, and since up to one-quarter of the proceeds from the games are dedicated to the community, local charities received tens of millions of dollars a year.”

The authors go to town destroying this argument with facts and figures:

*27 bowls enjoy not-for-profit status and do not pay taxes

*Not a single bowl game is run by a group that can be considered a charity. They are businesses first and foremost.

*23 bowl games with public records received $7.5 million in direct government handouts.

*The Sugar Bowl received $3 million in funding from Louisiana in 2007 and has its own lobbying firm to ensure its public financing. The organization brought in $34.1 million in revenue and gave ZERO money to charity, despite pulling $11.6 million in tax-free profit and $37 million in assets.

*Sugar Bowl executive director Paul Hoolahan received $607,500 in compensation for fiscal 2008. Associate executive director Jeff Hundley took in $375, 732.

*The Sugar Bowl cronies live lavishly spending thousands of dollars every year including, $494,177 for “entertainment” in 2005, $201,226 for “gifts and bonuses” in 2007, $330,244 for “decorations” in 2007, plus many, many more.

*The 23 tax-exempt bowls produced $186 million in revenue, including $141 million in net assets, but combined to give just $3.2 million (1.7 percent of revenue) to charity. More than half that charity came from just two bowls, the Orange and Chick-fil-A.

The rest of the chapter deals with the corruption that is starting to spring up as bowls like the Fiesta are reportedly contributing to political friends and allies to protect the Cartel system.

The Fiesta acknowledges spending $4 million since 2000 “on lobbyists, trips, dinners, and golf retreats to build relationships with athletic officials who control the BCS and to garner support from politicians.” The Arizona attorney general is currently investigating the matter.

The authors deride this and claim the $4 million could be sitting in coffers of colleges and universities, but instead it is wasted to protect the current BCS.

[SDHornet]

pwned. There is no financial argument in the world that justifies the current BcS any way you slice it. “Death to the BCS” does an excellent and well researched job of laying this fact out.

[OpieGSU]

How about at least addrressing my argument before you claim ownership of me, ok?
You said that BCS teams net 50k for bowl appearances, and that therefore FBS wasn't worth it. That was the crux of your argument.
I replied that when you look at merchandising and the value of being on TV and getting your university's name into millions of homes, it becomes clear that it's not a zero sum game.
There is also the intangible value of having your University percieved as part of bigtime college football. It can be a real factor in adding to the prestige of any University.
I guess what cracks me up is this. If you internet geniuses truly think you won this argument, then how do you explain the fact that the vast majority of FCS schools would love to be FBS, if they only had the fanbase or the money to build FBS-type facilities?
It's not a zero sum game. Stop thinking like an accountant and start thinking like a visionary.
If Boise state thought like you, they'd be Northern Arizona.

[clenz]

The thought of being in the Sun Belt, WAC, MAC, etc... isn't "big time football". The teams looking to move up are looking for reasons other than football a lot of times. Moving from the SoCon to CUSA for every other sport woudl be a huge jump in conference prestige.

However, for teams like UNI, SIU, (or any MVC...not MVFC team) to leave the conference is pretty stupid. The MVC is a stronger basketball, track, baseball, volleyball, etc... conference than the MAC, WAC, etc...


In terms of the average college football fan, or fan of the BCS schools, it doesn't matter if you are D2, D3, NAIA, FCS, or non-BCS team (MWC excluded) you are all the same.....zeros

[OpieGSU]

In terms of the average college football fan, or fan of the BCS schools, it doesn't matter if you are D2, D3, NAIA, FCS, or non-BCS team (MWC excluded) you are all the same.....zeros

This just isn"t true. In truth, the average college football fan thinks that if you are FBS and on ESPN, then you are bigtime. The average college fan also thinks that D-III and FCS are basically the same thing.


I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying that the perception of the average american.
Now, that said, are people equating Notre dame with Middle Tennesee? Of course not. However, they at least know that Middle tennessee is on the low end of the bigtime, when they see them playing a thursday nighter on ESPN, or being part of capital one bowl week, etc.
Christ, you all know exactly what I'm talking about. How many times have you tried to strike up a conversation about I-AA/FCS football with people in your office or school, and their eyes will instantly glaze over like you are speaking mandarin?
That's the perception problem that FBS schools(even the low end ones) don't have to deal with.

There is immeasurable intangible value to being FBS as opposed to FCS>

[SDHornet]

Christ, you all know exactly what I'm talking about. How many times have you tried to strike up a conversation about non-BCS football with people in your office or school, and their eyes will instantly glaze over like you are speaking mandarin?

FIFY

[OpieGSU]

Christ, you all know exactly what I'm talking about. How many times have you tried to strike up a conversation about non-BCS football with people in your office or school, and their eyes will instantly glaze over like you are speaking mandarin?

FIFY

"Fixed it for yourself ", you mean. Look if you want to ignore reality, then that's on you. t's unfortunate. The fact of the matter is that FBS football is perceived as "division I" to the average american. The games are on TV, it's on sportscenter, and they can bet on it.
FCS, on the other hand, is small potatos to most people, including most people who have degrees from FCS schools!!This is the reality of the hierarchy of college football, and the perception of average fans. Sorry, but your delusions of grandeur about the FCS are a little pathetic.

Say what you want about the Sunbelt, but it's head and shoulder's above any FCS conference. Compare your FCS school's facilities with any Sunbelt school, and you'll see a huge difference in favor of the Sunbelt. Does your FCS conference have a contract with ESPN like the Sunbelt does? Of course not. These are the dfferences, and they mean something in the real, non-messageboard, world.

[SDHornet]

"Fixed it for yourself ", you mean. Look if you want to ignore reality, then that's on you. t's unfortunate. The fact of the matter is that FBS football is perceived as "division I" to the average american. The games are on TV, it's on sportscenter, and they can bet on it.

If you think the ravage fan gives two shits about the WAC, MAC, and SBS then you are the one ignoring reality. The only time sportscenter shows highlights of a team from one of those conferences is when they are getting curb stomped by a BCS school in a money game.

FCS, on the other hand, is small potatos to most people, including most people who have degrees from FCS schools!!This is the reality of the hierarchy of college football, and the perception of average fans. Sorry, but your delusions of grandeur about the FCS are a little pathetic.

Please show me where I claim the FCS was a big draw to the average fan. The reality is that perception doesn’t pay the bills and neither does being a part of a non-AQ 1-A conference.

Say what you want about the Sunbelt, but it's head and shoulder's above any FCS conference. Compare your FCS school's facilities with any Sunbelt school, and you'll see a huge difference in favor of the Sunbelt. Does your FCS conference have a contract with ESPN like the Sunbelt does? Of course not. These are the dfferences, and they mean something in the real, non-messageboard, world.

Not according to the Sagarin ratings:
CONFERENCE CENTRAL MEAN SIMPLE AVERAGE TEAMS WIN50%

1 PAC-10 (A) = 80.87 81.43 10 81.14
2 SOUTHEASTERN (A) = 79.84 79.56 12 79.72
3 BIG 12 (A) = 75.42 75.64 12 75.66
4 ATLANTIC COAST (A) = 74.32 74.18 12 74.20
5 BIG TEN (A) = 74.18 74.72 11 74.52
6 I-A INDEPENDENTS (A) = 73.88 74.27 3 74.21
7 BIG EAST (A) = 73.27 73.00 8 73.04
8 MOUNTAIN WEST (A) = 70.19 70.24 9 70.03
9 WESTERN ATHLETIC (A) = 66.63 67.69 9 66.90
10 CONFERENCE USA (A) = 63.09 63.51 12 63.40
11 COLONIAL (AA)= 61.81 61.32 10 61.57
12 SOUTHERN (AA)= 59.14 58.43 9 58.62
13 MID-AMERICAN (A) = 58.25 58.18 13 58.18
14 BIG SKY (AA)= 57.22 56.76 9 56.83
15 MISSOURI VALLEY (AA)= 56.82 57.00 9 56.98
16 SUN BELT (A) = 56.06 56.85 9 56.76
http://www.usatoday.com//sports/sagarin/fbc10.htm
The SBC “head and shoulders” better than the FCS yet they rank lower than 4 FCS conferences…and yet I’m the delusional one.

[OpieGSU]

Sagarin? Are you kidding me?
Does sagarin measure the quality of facilities on campus? Does sagarin measure how many tmes your school is on TV? Does sagarin measure public perception? Nope.
ESPN has contracts with the Sunbelt, C-USA, WAC, and the MAC. There's not a single FCS conference that has an ESPN contract. Do you watch ESPN at all? If so, you know that they hype those midweek games during sportscenter and with mid week TV ads. You won't ever see FCS mentioned on sportscenter, and you certainly won't see highlights.

As I said in my previous posts, there is more to this college football thing than just "paying the bills" as you say.
FBS schools have their name in the public, through the media, and that has immeasurable value beyond simple dolars and cents.
Until you address my argument regarding the value of this media coverage and the genral public perception, then you're just pissing in the wind. Sagarin ratings have absolutely nothing to do with this. Sorry. Try again.

[SDHornet]

College football is all about the money; if you believe otherwise then I guess any explanation/answer I provide is pointless. I guess the new WAC, SBC, and MAC will only have “general public perception”, and “value of media coverage” to hang their hats on because it sure as hell won’t be the product on the field.

BTW if there was so much to gain in the irrelevant levels of FBS, why have some prolific FCS programs said thanks but no thanks to a “move up”?

FYI I haven’t had cable for almost 3 years so I only watch ESPN when I’m in a sports bar or streaming a game for free on-line.

[OpieGSU]

College football is all about the money; if you believe otherwise then I guess any explanation/answer I provide is pointless. I guess the new WAC, SBC, and MAC will only have “general public perception”, and “value of media coverage” to hang their hats on because it sure as hell won’t be the product on the field.

BTW if there was so much to gain in the irrelevant levels of FBS, why have some prolific FCS programs said thanks but no thanks to a “move up”?

There are far more FCS teams looking to move up, than there are looking to stay FCS. Most A.D.'s see the value of being FBS over FCS, but there are always exceptions. The exception (i.e. Montana) doesn't negate the fact that most programs, if they had the fanbase, seed money, and market size, would much rather be FBS than FCS. Sorry that's just reality, and there is a long list of FCS to FBS teams in the past 20 years to prove my point.

What you don't get is that the "value of media coverage' and the "general public perception" are relatively quanitfiable values. There is indeed a dollar value that one can attach to those things. Advertising your university is important. FBS games on ESPn or any other national network are essentially 3 hour adds for each University.
They are for the most part, the exact reason why so many schools want to eventually transition to FBS.
It's not a zero-sum game.

[89Hen]

There are far more FCS teams looking to move up, than there are looking to stay FCS.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

There are far more FCS teams looking to move up, than there are looking to stay FCS.

No shit on that one. GSU even sais it wasn't doable a couple of years right? I think I see Opie's problem now. He's one of those poor fuckers with the little dick that needs his team to move up so he feels special about himself. You can see it in the comments about needing to be respected by the TV viewing audience and so forth.

What kind of a fucking dullard puts out the advertising angle as some immeasurable thing? What is this immeasurable thing that is bringing to the University?

Enrollment?
Students?
Grants?
Notoriety?

BCS maybe I can see where that can be said in some cases. The Sun Belt, The MAC, The WAC? You are out of your fucking mind if you think for one second that the country is gonna a flying fuck about you or the fact that you moved up. That's the same shit a lot of Marshall dudes used to say in that they were tired of playing second fiddle to their big brother at WV. Guess what...nothing has changed 15 yrs. later.

[OpieGSU]

No **** on that one. GSU even sais it wasn't doable a couple of years right? I think I see Opie's problem now. He's one of those poor **** with the little dick that needs his team to move up so he feels special about himself. You can see it in the comments about needing to be respected by the TV viewing audience and so forth.

What kind of a **** dullard puts out the advertising angle as some immeasurable thing? What is this immeasurable thing that is bringing to the University?

Enrollment?
Students?
Grants?
Notoriety?

BCS maybe I can see where that can be said in some cases. The Sun Belt, The MAC, The WAC? You are out of your **** mind if you think for one second that the country is gonna a flying **** about you or the fact that you moved up. That's the same **** a lot of Marshall dudes used to say in that they were tired of playing second fiddle to their big brother at WV. Guess what...nothing has changed 15 yrs. later.

You keep refering to my dick. Keep your fantasies to yourself, and leave my pecker out of this please.
Advertising is important. It does indeed bring enrollment to university. Ask one of the smaller schools, who made it to the final rounds of the NCAA basketball tourney, if their enrollment rose in the wake of that run. Ask App state if their enrollment rose in the wake of all the publcity they got from beating michigan.
Ask ECU or Marshall or Boise state if their enrollment rose after leaving I-AA.
You are one of those head in the sand types. It's actually you with the inferiority complex. You know deep down that FCS is smalltime, so you do everything you can to rail against bigtime football. You're like the guy whose neighbor gets a mercedes while you still drive as hoopty, and you hate him for it. It's just sad.
Tell Bosie State that moving up was a bad idea. Go ahead. In terms of Marshall, are you serious? Do you not see that their name is more in the media now than it ever was as a I-AA. That's the whole point of going FBS, and the fact that you don't see it just shows that you're a I-AA ostritch. I know your type very well.