Minnesota Self Defense Shooting and/or Murder

[Gil Dobie]

Link

Smith has a right to defend himself in his own home, but shooting excessively after the victim is down is going too far IMO.

Little Falls, MN (WDAY TV) - We are learning much more today about a home break-in in Little Falls Minnesota that left two teens dead.

The homeowner admitted to killing the 17 and 18 year olds but says although he fired more shots than he needed, it was self-defense. Authorities say it was excessive and have now filed murder charges.

It's been a hot debate today. Was it self-defense or murder?

Prosecutors have laid out the details of how the teens were killed. And say it's those details that led them to file two counts of 2nd degree murder against 64 years old Byron Smith.

This all started Friday when Smith's neighbor called deputies to the area over concern of a death.

Sheriff Michel Wetzel, Morrison County: "Mr. Smith told them he did kill two people that were breaking into his home."

Byron Smith was taken in for questioning where authorities say he gave a detailed statement.

He said after hearing someone break in, he armed himself with a rifle and pistol and went to the basement.

He said he shot the first victim 17 year old Nicholas Brady when he could see most of his body coming down the stairs.

Wetzel: "The person fell to the bottom of the stairs and then Mr. Smith said he fired several more rounds at point blank range."

He then moved the body into a room.

That's when the second victim 18 year old Haile Kifer started walking down the stairs. He shot her and dragged her into the room but noticed she was still gasping for air.

Wetzel: "Mr. Smith told us he then placed his .22 caliber pistol under the victims chin and fired a final shot."

What puzzled authorities, if this was self-defense, why did Smith not report it to authorities? It happened on Thursday. His neighbor called police Friday.

Wetzel: "Mr. Smith did tell us that it was Thanksgiving and he didn't want to trouble us on a holiday."

Minnesota law states a person has the right to use deadly force if it’s necessary to protect yourself from death or bodily harm.

In this case it went further. The sheriff says law does not allow you to execute someone.

[ASUG8]

Part of me says you make the decision to break into someone's house, you pay the consequences. In this case I think the female's execution was over the top but if it sets an example of what you should and shouldn't do (as a thief or homeowner) then it's for the best. It'll be interesting to see how this case pans out.

[89Hen]

Whether guilty or not, the media is at it again.

Victims (also perps)



Perp (also victim)

[mrklean]

Part of me says you make the decision to break into someone's house, you pay the consequences. In this case I think the female's execution was over the top but if it sets an example of what you should and shouldn't do (as a thief or homeowner) then it's for the best. It'll be interesting to see how this case pans out.

I agree 100%. If you break into someones home. That's your azz!!!

[Ibanez]

Yeah, it's murder. He defended and then executed. He went too far, no doubt.

[ASUG8]

Here's a little more on it.....appears to be a pattern, and drug related.

The Minnesota teens killed on Thanksgiving Day while breaking into a home have been linked to an earlier robbery, authorities said today.

Six bottles of prescription drugs and other items reported stolen Sunday from a home in Little Falls, Minn. were found in a red Mitsubishi Eclipse that was being driven by Haile Kifer, 18, and Nicholas Brady, 17, according to the Morrison County Sheriff's Office.

Sheriff Michel Wetzel said the night before the teens were shot to death, authorities responded to a report of a red car parked suspiciously at the end of a driveway in Little Falls Township.

Officers encountered Brady, who told them Kifer had gone to get gas after the teens ran out while driving around town. The car was left at the location and deputies gave Brady a ride to Little Falls, Wetzel said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/minnesota-teen ... LZiwqw0V8E" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[YoUDeeMan]

Yeah, it's murder. He defended and then executed. He went too far, no doubt.

Dude's a hero...they were repeat offenders. He probably saved everyone a lot of time and money.

She should have left town and gone to Vegas to become a prostitute...and honest living out there.

[grizzaholic]

Me, personally, I think that if you invade a persons house with the intent on robbing, or something worse, you sealed your fate the minute you made entry. No forgiveness, no leniency, no nothing. If you die, it is on you not the victims.

[89Hen]

Me, personally, I think that if you invade a persons house with the intent on robbing, or something worse, you sealed your fate the minute you made entry. No forgiveness, no leniency, no nothing. If you die, it is on you not the victims.

We had a guy walk in our rental house at the beach one year. He was confused as to which house was his. Now, I didn't know his intent when he entered. Just saying.

[Chizzang]

Me, personally, I think that if you invade a persons house with the intent on robbing, or something worse, you sealed your fate the minute you made entry. No forgiveness, no leniency, no nothing. If you die, it is on you not the victims.

We had a guy walk in our rental house at the beach one year. He was confused as to which house was his. Now, I didn't know his intent when he entered. Just saying.

Obviously you missed a great opportunity to blow somebody's fucking head off..!!!

[Gil Dobie]

Me, personally, I think that if you invade a persons house with the intent on robbing, or something worse, you sealed your fate the minute you made entry. No forgiveness, no leniency, no nothing. If you die, it is on you not the victims.

We had a guy walk in our rental house at the beach one year. He was confused as to which house was his. Now, I didn't know his intent when he entered. Just saying.

He's also the guy that cut you off in traffic earlier that day.

[grizzaholic]

Me, personally, I think that if you invade a persons house with the intent on robbing, or something worse, you sealed your fate the minute you made entry. No forgiveness, no leniency, no nothing. If you die, it is on you not the victims.

We had a guy walk in our rental house at the beach one year. He was confused as to which house was his. Now, I didn't know his intent when he entered. Just saying.

I will always, ALWAYS, err on the side of caution for me and my family and friends.

[Ibanez]

Yeah, it's murder. He defended and then executed. He went too far, no doubt.

Dude's a hero...they were repeat offenders. He probably saved everyone a lot of time and money.

She should have left town and gone to Vegas to become a prostitute...and honest living out there.

Nope, he executed that person. They were already disarmed. You have the right to protect not execute. He's guilty of manslaughter.

[JohnStOnge]

I have always believed that if you invade someone else's home or even attempt to take their property all bets are off and the person you're trying to victimize should have safe harbor.

It's kind of like once I read about this guy who kept having his store burglarized. So he set up a booby trap and it killed somebody trying to break into his store. And he was prosecuted. To me that's a "no way."

You try to steal from somebody or break into somebody's stuff your right to live in that moment is forfeit as far as I'm concerned. You get killed; whether the person HAD to kill you or not, that's your problem.

[HI54UNI]

Whether guilty or not, the media is at it again.

Victims (also perps)



Perp (also victim)

I wonder what the "victims" look like now, i.e. not their high school pictures.

As far as I'm concerned he did the world a favor. That pair won't be wasting any perfectly good oxygen.

[Ibanez]

I am all for Castle Law. However, he shot them, shot them once they stopped, dragged them to a room an executed them. Then this "innocent" man didn't even alert the authorities? He went beyond the law an should be found guilty of manslaughter.

[YoUDeeMan]

Dude's a hero...they were repeat offenders. He probably saved everyone a lot of time and money.

She should have left town and gone to Vegas to become a prostitute...and honest living out there.

Nope, he executed that person. They were already disarmed. You have the right to protect not execute. He's guilty of manslaughter.

That may be how most people view the law, but I agree with the sane people here...this homeowner took out the trash for the rest of us and should be released.

I don't give a hoot if someone is "unarmed". How the hell does anyone know if the guy is a 6th degree black belt that, if given even a slight opening, would disarm you and kill you in a heartbeat. Teenagers have lightning quick reflexes compared to a 50 year old person. And who is to say the kid, while laying in his poool of blood, doesn't pull a small pistol out of the back of his pants.

Cripes, haven't you seen all the movies where the good guy shoots the bad guy, or a monster, or the bad guy on crack, and the good guy turns away thinking he's safe, only to get killed by the perp?

Despite the hyperbole of movies, you absolutely know that through the long years of mankind's existence, good people have died because they gave a perp a break after some liberal clown said, "OK, he's had enough."

Would you want your father or mother to be the one killed because they were too nice?

F-that.

Now, I'm not sure this homeowner had all his wits about him...he should have had a lawyer tell him to "forget" the details and say he didn't call for a day because he was in shock and fear that others were still upstairs waiting for him.

In the end, two dirtbags won't be bothering anyone anymore. Maybe three, if you consider the homeowner a dirtbag/nut case.

All in all, not a bad ending.

[houndawg]

Link

Smith has a right to defend himself in his own home, but shooting excessively after the victim is down is going too far IMO.

Little Falls, MN (WDAY TV) - We are learning much more today about a home break-in in Little Falls Minnesota that left two teens dead.

The homeowner admitted to killing the 17 and 18 year olds but says although he fired more shots than he needed, it was self-defense. Authorities say it was excessive and have now filed murder charges.

It's been a hot debate today. Was it self-defense or murder?

Prosecutors have laid out the details of how the teens were killed. And say it's those details that led them to file two counts of 2nd degree murder against 64 years old Byron Smith.

This all started Friday when Smith's neighbor called deputies to the area over concern of a death.

Sheriff Michel Wetzel, Morrison County: "Mr. Smith told them he did kill two people that were breaking into his home."

Byron Smith was taken in for questioning where authorities say he gave a detailed statement.

He said after hearing someone break in, he armed himself with a rifle and pistol and went to the basement.

He said he shot the first victim 17 year old Nicholas Brady when he could see most of his body coming down the stairs.

Wetzel: "The person fell to the bottom of the stairs and then Mr. Smith said he fired several more rounds at point blank range."

He then moved the body into a room.

That's when the second victim 18 year old Haile Kifer started walking down the stairs. He shot her and dragged her into the room but noticed she was still gasping for air.

Wetzel: "Mr. Smith told us he then placed his .22 caliber pistol under the victims chin and fired a final shot."

What puzzled authorities, if this was self-defense, why did Smith not report it to authorities? It happened on Thursday. His neighbor called police Friday.

Wetzel: "Mr. Smith did tell us that it was Thanksgiving and he didn't want to trouble us on a holiday."

Minnesota law states a person has the right to use deadly force if it’s necessary to protect yourself from death or bodily harm.

In this case it went further. The sheriff says law does not allow you to execute someone.

There must be more to this.

Homeowner hears intruders, gets rifle and pistol and retreats to basement.

Intruder #1 comes down the basement stairs and is killed by several gunshots from homeowner.

Intruder #2 then comes down the same stairs.......


I don't think so.

[grizzaholic]

I am all for Castle Law. However, he shot them, shot them once they stopped, dragged them to a room an executed them. Then this "innocent" man didn't even alert the authorities? He went beyond the law an should be found guilty of manslaughter.

My bad here Ibanez. I still stand by my thinking that "you broke into my house and you got shot, IT IS ON YOU and you are now dead".... but when he moves the bodies and whatnot, there might be something else here.

[grizzaholic]

Link

Smith has a right to defend himself in his own home, but shooting excessively after the victim is down is going too far IMO.

There must be more to this.

Homeowner hears intruders, gets rifle and pistol and retreats to basement.

Intruder #1 comes down the basement stairs and is killed by several gunshots from homeowner.

Intruder #2 then comes down the same stairs.......


I don't think so.

I use common sense in these type of situations. Guns, also weapons, are not the answer.

[eagleskins]

There are people out there who truly wish their house gets robbed, I believe.

[ASUG8]

There must be more to this.

Homeowner hears intruders, gets rifle and pistol and retreats to basement.

Intruder #1 comes down the basement stairs and is killed by several gunshots from homeowner.

Intruder #2 then comes down the same stairs.......


I don't think so.

I thought the same thing at first....if the second perp hears gunshots why move toward them? Unless her boyfriend was packing and she thought he shot first?

[89Hen]

We had a guy walk in our rental house at the beach one year. He was confused as to which house was his. Now, I didn't know his intent when he entered. Just saying.

I will always, ALWAYS, err on the side of caution for me and my family and friends.

But who will take care of them while you rot in jail?

[89Hen]

I have always believed that if you invade someone else's home or even attempt to take their property all bets are off and the person you're trying to victimize should have safe harbor.

It's kind of like once I read about this guy who kept having his store burglarized. So he set up a booby trap and it killed somebody trying to break into his store. And he was prosecuted. To me that's a "no way."

You try to steal from somebody or break into somebody's stuff your right to live in that moment is forfeit as far as I'm concerned. You get killed; whether the person HAD to kill you or not, that's your problem.

We had a guy walk in our rental house at the beach one year. He was confused as to which house was his. Now, I didn't know his intent when he entered. Just saying again.

[89Hen]

That may be how most people view the law, but I agree with the sane people here...