The New Great Depression

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The New Great Depression

Post by travelinman67 »

It's official:

US Housing Crisis Is Now Worse Than Great Depression

Tuesday, 14 Jun 2011
By: Jeff Cox

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43395857
It's official: The housing crisis that began in 2006 and has recently entered a double dip is now worse than the Great Depression.

Prices have fallen some 33 percent since the market began its collapse, greater than the 31 percent fall that began in the late 1920s and culminated in the early 1930s, according to Case-Shiller data.

The news comes as the Federal Reserve considers whether the economy has regained enough strength to stand on its own and as unemployment remains at a still-elevated 9.1 percent, throwing into question whether the recovery is real.

"The sharp fall in house prices in the first quarter provided further confirmation that this housing crash has been larger and faster than the one during the Great Depression," Paul Dales, senior economist at Capital Economics in Toronto, wrote in research for clients.

According to Case-Shiller, which provides the most closely followed housing industry data, prices dropped 1.9 percent in the first quarter, a move that the firm interpreted as a clear double dip in prices.

Moreover, Dales said prices likely have not completed their downturn.

"The only comfort is that the latest monthly data show that towards the end of the first quarter prices started to fall at a more modest rate," he said. "Nonetheless, prices are likely to fall by a further 3 percent this year, resulting in a 5 percent drop over the year as a whole."

Prices continue to tumble despite affordability, which by most conventional metrics is near historic highs.

The rate for a 30-year conventional mortgage is around 4.5 percent, just above the historic low of 4.2 percent in October 2010. The ratio measuring mortgage costs to renting is 7 percent below its norm, while the price-to-income ratio is 23 percent below its average, Dale said.

Yet other factors are constraining the market.

After the fallout from the subprime debacle, in which millions lost their homes when they defaulted on loans they could not afford, banks changed underwriting standards.

More than four in every five mortgages now require a down payment of 20 percent, and credit history standards have tightened. At the same time, foreclosures continue at a brisk pace, pushing more supply onto the market and pressuring prices downward.

Then there is the issue of underwater homeowners—those who owe more than their house is worth—representing another 23 percent of homeowners who cannot leave or are in danger of mortgage default.

Indeed, the foreclosure problem is unlikely to get any better with 4.5 million households either three payments late or in foreclosure proceedings. The historical average is 1 million, according to Dales' research.
:ohno: :ohno: :ohno:
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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by Ibanez »

Perhaps a world war could pull us out.


Or maybe, just maybe, we can evolve and learn from our mistakes. We can't keep on borrowing.
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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by travelinman67 »

Ibanez wrote:Perhaps a world war could pull us out.


Or maybe, just maybe, we can evolve and learn from our mistakes. We can't keep on borrowing.
Until our own government gets out of the way and allows industry to survive and thrive...nothing's going to improve. Industry creates sustainable jobs, not government.

Liberal government sees citizens and industry as existing to support government, not vice versa. It's virtual extortion.

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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by AZGrizFan »

travelinman67 wrote:It's official:

US Housing Crisis Is Now Worse Than Great Depression

Tuesday, 14 Jun 2011
By: Jeff Cox

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43395857
It's official: The housing crisis that began in 2006 and has recently entered a double dip is now worse than the Great Depression.

Prices have fallen some 33 percent since the market began its collapse, greater than the 31 percent fall that began in the late 1920s and culminated in the early 1930s, according to Case-Shiller data.

The news comes as the Federal Reserve considers whether the economy has regained enough strength to stand on its own and as unemployment remains at a still-elevated 9.1 percent, throwing into question whether the recovery is real.

"The sharp fall in house prices in the first quarter provided further confirmation that this housing crash has been larger and faster than the one during the Great Depression," Paul Dales, senior economist at Capital Economics in Toronto, wrote in research for clients.

According to Case-Shiller, which provides the most closely followed housing industry data, prices dropped 1.9 percent in the first quarter, a move that the firm interpreted as a clear double dip in prices.

Moreover, Dales said prices likely have not completed their downturn.

"The only comfort is that the latest monthly data show that towards the end of the first quarter prices started to fall at a more modest rate," he said. "Nonetheless, prices are likely to fall by a further 3 percent this year, resulting in a 5 percent drop over the year as a whole."

Prices continue to tumble despite affordability, which by most conventional metrics is near historic highs.

The rate for a 30-year conventional mortgage is around 4.5 percent, just above the historic low of 4.2 percent in October 2010. The ratio measuring mortgage costs to renting is 7 percent below its norm, while the price-to-income ratio is 23 percent below its average, Dale said.

Yet other factors are constraining the market.

After the fallout from the subprime debacle, in which millions lost their homes when they defaulted on loans they could not afford, banks changed underwriting standards.

More than four in every five mortgages now require a down payment of 20 percent, and credit history standards have tightened. At the same time, foreclosures continue at a brisk pace, pushing more supply onto the market and pressuring prices downward.

Then there is the issue of underwater homeowners—those who owe more than their house is worth—representing another 23 percent of homeowners who cannot leave or are in danger of mortgage default.Indeed, the foreclosure problem is unlikely to get any better with 4.5 million households either three payments late or in foreclosure proceedings. The historical average is 1 million, according to Dales' research.
:ohno: :ohno: :ohno:
And that's in addition to the 60% of foreclosures that were strategic defaults already....I'll keep repeating it because it bears repeating: this housing "collapse" was totally avoidable if people had any sort of moral backbone.
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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by biobengal »

"The New Great Depression"?

LOL! I'm embarrassed for the real Great Depression.

I'm sorry your house lost value but it wasn't real...

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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by travelinman67 »

biobengal wrote:"The New Great Depression"?

LOL! I'm embarrassed for the real Great Depression.

I'm sorry your house lost value but it wasn't real...

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Real property values are a function of economic strength. Devaluation is merely a symptom of the ailment.

The indicae of a collapsing economy are all present: debt; weakened currency; unemployment; sub-poverty wage base; inflation...yet little is being done by either party. If ever our country represented the potential to adopt neo-feudalistic structures, this is that time.

Exhibiting apathetic, if not cavalier, response is what brought us to this point.
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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by OpieGSU »

Well you can always hope, travelindouche. :roll:
What are you so hysterical about? While it's by no means great right now, the economy is in way better shape than it was when Bush handed it over to this President.
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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by AZGrizFan »

OpieGSU wrote:Well you can always hope, travelindouche. :roll:
What are you so hysterical about? While it's by no means great right now, the economy is in way better shape than it was when Bush handed it over to this President.
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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by SeattleGriz »

OpieGSU wrote:Well you can always hope, travelindouche. :roll:
What are you so hysterical about? While it's by no means great right now, the economy is in way better shape than it was when Bush handed it over to this President.
WOW. GSU graduates tards en bloc!

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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by SuperHornet »

OpieGSU wrote:Well you can always hope, travelindouche. :roll:
What are you so hysterical about? While it's by no means great right now, the economy is in way better shape than it was when Bush handed it over to this President.
From my perspective, that's one of the biggest hogwash statements EVER on this board.
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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by OpieGSU »

How quickly they forget. The economy was on the verge of complete collapse when Obama took over. As I said it's not great now, but t's far more stable than it was in January 2009.
When Obama took over, banks were collapsing left and right, the auto industry was about to go under, and the Dow was below 8,000.
Unemplyment is still way too high, but at least things have stabilized for the most part. You can pick and choose whatever bad econo ic indictor you want, but the fact of the matter is that the overall picture is better than it was when this president took office.
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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by SuperHornet »

Uh, NOTHING is stabilized. If you can't see that, you're dumber than you seem. While gas has dropped a tad in the last few weeks, it's still WAY too high. That drives up OTHER prices due to transportation. There are plenty of other things as well.

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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by Bronco »

----

"Presidential adviser David Plouffe said Obama has long been committed to finding ways for the nation to spend within its means...."

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/White-Hou ... l?x=0&.v=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by AZGrizFan »

OpieGSU wrote:How quickly they forget. The economy was on the verge of complete collapse when Obama took over. As I said it's not great now, but t's far more stable than it was in January 2009.
When Obama took over, banks were collapsing left and right, the auto industry was about to go under, and the Dow was below 8,000.
Unemplyment is still way too high, but at least things have stabilized for the most part. You can pick and choose whatever bad econo ic indictor you want, but the fact of the matter is that the overall picture is better than it was when this president took office.
Gas prices
Inflation
Consumer Confidence
Business confidence
Dollar devaluation
QE-I and QE-II abortions
Housing values
Housing starts
Housing sales
foreclosure rates
Unemployment rate
First time unemployment benefits requests
national debt
budget deficit
out of control government spending
three-front war
balance of trade
342 bank failures ($465 BILLION in assets)

Pick your indicator.

Yep. Things are a WHOLE lot better, aren't they? Christ, you make analjelly look moderate. :dunce: :dunce:
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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by SuperHornet »

Selective vision on the part of those who deify President Obama.

:ohno:
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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by citdog »

also black


half
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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by Bronco »

--
"Looks like O'Bammy picked the wrong presidency to stop snorting cocaine:"



" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


[youtube][/youtube]

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/BothSide ... 754&page=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by OpieGSU »

AZGrizFan wrote: Gas prices
Inflation
Consumer Confidence
Business confidence
Dollar devaluation
QE-I and QE-II abortions
Housing values
Housing starts
Housing sales
foreclosure rates
Unemployment rate
First time unemployment benefits requests
national debt
budget deficit
out of control government spending
three-front war
balance of trade
342 bank failures ($465 BILLION in assets)
90% of those issues are inherited problems from Bush, and most are headed in the right direction. The wars? all bush. trade imbalance? bush. deficits? same under Bush? Consumer confidence? Bush. The housing crisis? Bush. The stock market crashing? Bush Dollar devaluation? Bush.
The recovery just isn't fast enough for you. It takes time. You can bitch and moan all you want, but the policies the president instituted following his inauguration, probably averted an actual depression. You may not like every individual decision made, but you must admit that the steady hand of the president and his advisors stabilized an absolute cluster fvck of a situation that Bush got us into. Three years into his presidency, considering the circumstances under which he was sworn in, I'd say the president is doing a decent job managing the economy. Could it be better? Of course. But this mess didn't happen overnight, and it won't be fixed overnight.
Most of those indicators are headed in the right direction. The fact that you actually blame this president for the wars is absurd. If he had pulled out when he was sworn in, you rubes would be labeling him a cut and run coward.
This president is thoughtful, pragmatic, and he seeks common ground with the other side. Quite frankly that is a huge breath of fresh air given the constant demagoguery of the republicans. This thread is a perfect example of that. Great depression 2 in 2011. Pluuease. Don't be so melodramatic.
Last edited by OpieGSU on Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by citdog »

OpieGSU wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote: Gas prices
Inflation
Consumer Confidence
Business confidence
Dollar devaluation
QE-I and QE-II abortions
Housing values
Housing starts
Housing sales
foreclosure rates
Unemployment rate
First time unemployment benefits requests
national debt
budget deficit
out of control government spending
three-front war
balance of trade
342 bank failures ($465 BILLION in assets)
90% of those issues are inhereted problems from Bush, and most are headed in the right direction. The wars? all bush. trade imbalance? bush. deficits? same under Bush? Consumer confidence? Bush. The housing crisis? Bush. The stock market crashing? Bush Dollar devaluation? Bush.
The recovery just isn't fast enough for you.It takes time. You can bitch and moan all you want, but the policies the president instituted following his inauguration, probably averted an actual depression. You may not like every individual decision made, but you must admit that the steady hand of the president and his advisors stabilized an absolute cluster fvck of a situation that Bush got us into. Three years into his presidency, considering the circumstances under which he was sworn in, I'd say the president is doing a decent job managing the economy. Could it be better? Of course. But this mess didn't happen overnight, and it won't be fixed overnight.
Most of those idicators are headed in the right direction. The fact that you actually blame this president for the wars is absurd. If he had pulled out when he was sworn in, you rubes would be labeling him a cut and run coward.
This president is thoughtful, pragmatic, and he seeks common ground with the other side. QUite frankly that is a huge breath of fresh air given the constant demigougery of the republicans. This thread is a perfect example of that. Great depression 2 in 2011. Pluuease. Don't be so melodramatic.
whoops! I crapped my pants.
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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by AZGrizFan »

OpieGSU wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote: Gas prices
Inflation
Consumer Confidence
Business confidence
Dollar devaluation
QE-I and QE-II abortions
Housing values
Housing starts
Housing sales
foreclosure rates
Unemployment rate
First time unemployment benefits requests
national debt
budget deficit
out of control government spending
three-front war
balance of trade
342 bank failures ($465 BILLION in assets)
90% of those issues are inhereted problems from Bush, and most are headed in the right direction. The wars? all bush. trade imbalance? bush. deficits? same under Bush? Consumer confidence? Bush. The housing crisis? Bush. The stock market crashing? Bush Dollar devaluation? Bush.
The recovery just isn't fast enough for you.It takes time. You can bitch and moan all you want, but the policies the president instituted following his inauguration, probably averted an actual depression. You may not like every individual decision made, but you must admit that the steady hand of the president and his advisors stabilized an absolute cluster fvck of a situation that Bush got us into. Three years into his presidency, considering the circumstances under which he was sworn in, I'd say the president is doing a decent job managing the economy. Could it be better? Of course. But this mess didn't happen overnight, and it won't be fixed overnight.
Most of those idicators are headed in the right direction. The fact that you actually blame this president for the wars is absurd. If he had pulled out when he was sworn in, you rubes would be labeling him a cut and run coward.
This president is thoughtful, pragmatic, and he seeks common ground with the other side. QUite frankly that is a huge breath of fresh air given the constant demigougery of the republicans. This thread is a perfect example of that. Great depression 2 in 2011. Pluuease. Don't be so melodramatic.
Wrong on so many levels. Every single indicator I mentioned is moving in the WRONG direction. Plus: Trade imbalance is way worse under Obama. Housing crisis---worse under Obama. Unemployment---higher (and MOVING HIGHER) than under Bush. Dollar devaluation is worse since Obama took office. 28 bank failures under last two years of Bush's watch. 347 under Obama's first two years.

Obama's campaign promise to get us out of Bush's wars---failed. In fact, he's gone and violated the constitution and started another one in Libya. Promise to close GTMO----failed. Promise to repeal Patriot Act---failed.

This president didn't "seek common ground" until after November, 2010 when he was FORCED to. Prior to that he crammed his wet dream legislation pieces down America's throat despite massive protests to the contrary. Witness: Obamacare and massive failed bailout packages that the majority of Americans didn't want.

You are a classic Obama apologist and the reason I updated my signature, adding the Obama scorecard. 27 months into his presidency and NOTHING has EVER been his fault. Fucking amazing. Absofuckinglutely amazing....

Yep...thoughtful indeed....

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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by OpieGSU »

This column illustrates my points far better than I ever could.
I defer to it. Do yourself a favor and read up. You might actually learn something if you took a second to open your mind, instead of spewing this BS hysteria that Obama is some sort of antichrist president. The guy inherited a shit economy from your guy, Bush. I'd give obama a B- at this point. We'll see where we are in a year after his 1st term is complete. I swear even liberals like me were never this demagogic about GW Bush, and he fvckin started a war on false pretenses for christ's sake!!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-kwa ... 53642.html
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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by citdog »

OpieGSU wrote:This article illustrates my points far better than I ever could.
I defer to it. Do yourself a favor and read up. You might actually learn something if you took a second to open your mind, instead of spewing this BS hysteria that Obama is some sort of antichrist president. The guy inherited a shit economy from your guy, Bush. I'd give obama a B- at this point. We'll see where we are in a year after his 1st term is complete. I swear even liberals like me were never this demagogic about GW Bush, and he fvckin started a war on false pretenses for christ's sake!!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-kwa ... 53642.html
huffington post :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


this rube has a lot to learn
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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by OpieGSU »

citdog wrote:
OpieGSU wrote:This article illustrates my points far better than I ever could.
I defer to it. Do yourself a favor and read up. You might actually learn something if you took a second to open your mind, instead of spewing this BS hysteria that Obama is some sort of antichrist president. The guy inherited a **** economy from your guy, Bush. I'd give obama a B- at this point. We'll see where we are in a year after his 1st term is complete. I swear even liberals like me were never this demagogic about GW Bush, and he fvckin started a war on false pretenses for christ's sake!!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-kwa ... 53642.html
huffington post :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


this rube has a lot to learn
If your insinuation is that the link is biased because of it's source, well that's kind of a "no sh*t sherlock" moment isn't it? It's a column. An opinion piece. Not meant to be objective. So I'm not even really sure what your point is. I highly doubt you even took the time to read the piece.
It' s also mildly shocking that you don't know the difference between a column and objective reporting. There is no "right" answer on these issues, and you can find economists on both sides. This is this author's analysis of the situation, and I tend to agree wth him on most points. If you don't then you make a counter argument, or cite a source which does so for you.
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Post by eagleskins »

Got to love the rubes. Just blindly forget about the Iraq war which is the #1 cause to just about every economic problem we have right now. Great cause attacking a country with a secular leader who had zero ties to Al Quieda and had no connection with 9/11. That rube of course inherited a mess. Whoops. Biggest surplus in American history and left with the biggest deficit in American history. Montana militia men need to spend less on the Thai rub and tugs and more on a Barnes & Noble membership.
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Re: The New Great Depression

Post by Sapper »

You all need to quit reading the Huffington post and open your eyes. The down fall of our economy is because we have a government interfering in a capitalist system. We have a popular socialistic movement that is pushing for a redistribution of wealth, to take form the haves and give to the have not’s. I don’t want to be taxed to take care of other people. I don’t want the government to take care of me I want to do it myself. If we want to fix this problem we need the government to stay out of the economy. We spend way too much money on social welfare in this country. People need to start being self sufficient and take personal responsibility and not demand free handouts from the government. I have 100 days left in Afghanistan we were attacked again last night I am starting to see the budget cuts all of you that want to cut the military budget thanks.
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