WWJC?

Political discussions
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69211
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

WWJC?

Post by kalm »

It appears there's a rift among christians regarding the morality of economic austerity.

Question for you christian conks: What would Jesus cut?

(other than taxes) :mrgreen:
Earlier this week a coalition of dozens of progressive Christian leaders led by Jim Wallis of Sojourners launched a campaign, "What would Jesus cut?" with a full-page ad in Monday's edition of Politico, and the group is following it up by sending e-mails and orange wristlets with the slogan to all members of Congress in an effort to prevent cuts for the poor and reduce defense spending

As a recent Pew survey showed, evangelical Christians in particular are significantly more likely than other Americans to favor spending cuts on aid to poor people in the United States and overseas, and cuts on spending on behalf of the unemployed, environmental protection, scientific research, health care and education.

"I would say that we need an ongoing biblical dialogue with my brother and sister evangelicals," is how Ron Sider diplomatically phrased his reaction to the survey.

Shane Claiborne of The Simple Way, another speaker at Thursday's press conference, was more direct:

"I think that much of evangelical Christianity has lost the centeredness of Jesus and Jesus' heart for the poor and Jesus' Beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mount," he said. "We're starting with Christians because in some ways we've forgotten the 2,000 [Bible] verses that dare us and challenge us to remember the poor."

Likewise, Gideon Strauss, president of Center for Public Justice, seemed to reject the philosophy of the tea party movement -- which surveys show is disproportionately composed of conservative white evangelicals -- when he declared Thursday that "those who disdain government and the political process dishonor God and their own humanity."

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2011/03/03 ... ans-and-e/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
dbackjon
Moderator Team
Moderator Team
Posts: 45627
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:20 am
I am a fan of: Northern Arizona
A.K.A.: He/Him
Location: Scottsdale

Re: WWJC?

Post by dbackjon »

Great campaign.

Too many evangelicals are not really Christ-like in their outlook - Jesus would throw them out of their temples.
:thumb:
User avatar
Skjellyfetti
Anal
Anal
Posts: 14687
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:56 pm
I am a fan of: Appalachian

Re: WWJC?

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Image

Image

Image

Image
"The unmasking thing was all created by Devin Nunes"
- Richard Burr, (R-NC)
Ivytalk
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 26827
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:22 pm
I am a fan of: Salisbury University
Location: Republic of Western Sussex

Re: WWJC?

Post by Ivytalk »

Jim Wallis led it. Nothing more needs to be said. Move along. :coffee:
“I’m tired and done.” — 89Hen 3/27/22.
User avatar
dbackjon
Moderator Team
Moderator Team
Posts: 45627
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:20 am
I am a fan of: Northern Arizona
A.K.A.: He/Him
Location: Scottsdale

Re: WWJC?

Post by dbackjon »

Ivytalk wrote:Jim Wallis led it. Nothing more needs to be said. Move along. :coffee:
Most Christian Leaders could stand to take some lessons from Jim Wallace...
:thumb:
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69211
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: WWJC?

Post by kalm »

Ivytalk wrote:Jim Wallis led it. Nothing more needs to be said. Move along. :coffee:
Except if you read the article it talks about the evangelical movement as a whole citing numerous leaders about the issue. :coffee:
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
citdog
Level3
Level3
Posts: 3560
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:48 pm
I am a fan of: THE Citadel
A.K.A.: Pres.Jefferson Davis
Location: C.S.A.

Re: WWJC?

Post by citdog »

I think Jesus would cut the foreskin
"Duty is the sublimest word in the English Language"
"Save in defense of my native State I hope to never again draw my sword"
Genl Robert E. Lee
Confederate States of America
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19511
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: WWJC?

Post by SDHornet »

It’s thinking outlined in the article above which makes me thank God that the founding fathers put in a “separation of church and state” clause in the first amendment. :coffee:
Baldy
Level4
Level4
Posts: 9921
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:38 pm
I am a fan of: Georgia Southern

Re: WWJC?

Post by Baldy »

dbackjon wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:Jim Wallis led it. Nothing more needs to be said. Move along. :coffee:
Most Christian Leaders could stand to take some lessons from Jim Wallace...
Jim Wallis is nothing more than a modern day Father Coughlin. A farce. :coffee:
User avatar
citdog
Level3
Level3
Posts: 3560
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:48 pm
I am a fan of: THE Citadel
A.K.A.: Pres.Jefferson Davis
Location: C.S.A.

Re: WWJC?

Post by citdog »

SDHornet wrote:It’s thinking outlined in the article above which makes me thank God that the founding fathers put in a “separation of church and state” clause in the first amendment. :coffee:
the words separation of church and state appear nowhere in the Constitution of the 'late united states'. you have "'s around a passage that does not exist.
"Duty is the sublimest word in the English Language"
"Save in defense of my native State I hope to never again draw my sword"
Genl Robert E. Lee
Confederate States of America
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19511
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: WWJC?

Post by SDHornet »

citdog wrote:
SDHornet wrote:It’s thinking outlined in the article above which makes me thank God that the founding fathers put in a “separation of church and state” clause in the first amendment. :coffee:
the words separation of church and state appear nowhere in the Constitution of the 'late united states'. you have "'s around a passage that does not exist.
The First Amendment reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ....", while Article VI specifies that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation ... ted_States
You are correct, and that is why it is a clause. You can't tell me you read the above quote and then claim it isn't clearly stating that it isn't inferring separation of church and state. It seems pretty cut and dry to me. :coffee:
Ivytalk
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 26827
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:22 pm
I am a fan of: Salisbury University
Location: Republic of Western Sussex

Re: WWJC?

Post by Ivytalk »

kalm wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:Jim Wallis led it. Nothing more needs to be said. Move along. :coffee:
Except if you read the article it talks about the evangelical movement as a whole citing numerous leaders about the issue. :coffee:
Yep -- the full complement of "usual suspects" from the "Christian left." :coffee: :roll:
“I’m tired and done.” — 89Hen 3/27/22.
User avatar
citdog
Level3
Level3
Posts: 3560
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:48 pm
I am a fan of: THE Citadel
A.K.A.: Pres.Jefferson Davis
Location: C.S.A.

Re: WWJC?

Post by citdog »

SDHornet wrote:
citdog wrote:
the words separation of church and state appear nowhere in the Constitution of the 'late united states'. you have "'s around a passage that does not exist.
The First Amendment reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ....", while Article VI specifies that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation ... ted_States
You are correct, and that is why it is a clause. You can't tell me you read the above quote and then claim it isn't clearly stating that it isn't inferring separation of church and state. It seems pretty cut and dry to me. :coffee:
the 1st protects against the establishment of an "official" religion. Article VI states that no test be required to hold office. the Constitution says what it says. no inferring is EVER "necessary and proper" if it doesn't say it....it does not exist.
"Duty is the sublimest word in the English Language"
"Save in defense of my native State I hope to never again draw my sword"
Genl Robert E. Lee
Confederate States of America
User avatar
LeadBolt
Level3
Level3
Posts: 3586
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:44 pm
I am a fan of: William & Mary
Location: Botetourt

Re: WWJC?

Post by LeadBolt »

Christians are commanded to help the poor, the orphans and the widows, from their own abundance. No where are they commanded to stick their hand in someone else's pocket to do so.

I support government programs to provide a safety net, but I'm not sure of the morality of taking from one person under the compulsion of the law to give to another.

This one presents a moral dilemma.
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19511
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: WWJC?

Post by SDHornet »

citdog wrote:the 1st protects against the establishment of an "official" religion. Article VI states that no test be required to hold office. the Constitution says what it says. no inferring is EVER "necessary and proper" if it doesn't say it....it does not exist.
Thereby keeping state and religion (church) separate.
User avatar
citdog
Level3
Level3
Posts: 3560
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:48 pm
I am a fan of: THE Citadel
A.K.A.: Pres.Jefferson Davis
Location: C.S.A.

Re: WWJC?

Post by citdog »

SDHornet wrote:
citdog wrote:the 1st protects against the establishment of an "official" religion. Article VI states that no test be required to hold office. the Constitution says what it says. no inferring is EVER "necessary and proper" if it doesn't say it....it does not exist.
Thereby keeping state and religion (church) separate.
that is what you read into it. all it protects against is the establishment of a Church of America like there is a Church of England that one had to be a member of to hold office.
"Duty is the sublimest word in the English Language"
"Save in defense of my native State I hope to never again draw my sword"
Genl Robert E. Lee
Confederate States of America
User avatar
GannonFan
Level5
Level5
Posts: 19233
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:51 am
I am a fan of: Delaware
A.K.A.: Non-Partisan Hack

Re: WWJC?

Post by GannonFan »

SDHornet wrote:
citdog wrote:
the words separation of church and state appear nowhere in the Constitution of the 'late united states'. you have "'s around a passage that does not exist.
The First Amendment reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ....", while Article VI specifies that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation ... ted_States
You are correct, and that is why it is a clause. You can't tell me you read the above quote and then claim it isn't clearly stating that it isn't inferring separation of church and state. It seems pretty cut and dry to me. :coffee:
Seriously, man, are you just new to the debate? You really think that the separation of church is state is that cut and dry? Have you read anything on the issue other than the wiki page?
Proud Member of the Blue Hen Nation
∞∞∞
Level5
Level5
Posts: 12373
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:30 am

Re: WWJC?

Post by ∞∞∞ »

kalm wrote:Question for you christian conks: What would Jesus cut?
He'd cut Obama's head off because Obama is the anti-Christ, obviously...
User avatar
Col Hogan
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 12230
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:29 am
I am a fan of: William & Mary
Location: Republic of Texas

Re: Re: WWJC?

Post by Col Hogan »

LeadBolt wrote:Christians are commanded to help the poor, the orphans and the widows, from their own abundance. No where are they commanded to stick their hand in someone else's pocket to do so.

I support government programs to provide a safety net, but I'm not sure of the morality of taking from one person under the compulsion of the law to give to another.

This one presents a moral dilemma.
Outstanding point of view ...
“Tolerance and Apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.” Aristotle

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
User avatar
Grizalltheway
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 35688
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:01 pm
A.K.A.: DJ Honey BBQ
Location: BSC

Re: WWJC?

Post by Grizalltheway »

LeadBolt wrote:Christians are commanded to help the poor, the orphans and the widows, from their own abundance. No where are they commanded to stick their hand in someone else's pocket to do so.

I support government programs to provide a safety net, but I'm not sure of the morality of taking from one person under the compulsion of the law to give to another.

This one presents a moral dilemma.
Are Christians (catholics in particular) who give money to an organization that knowingly and willfully defends pedophiles faced with a moral dilemma? Food for thought. :coffee:
User avatar
LeadBolt
Level3
Level3
Posts: 3586
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:44 pm
I am a fan of: William & Mary
Location: Botetourt

Re: WWJC?

Post by LeadBolt »

Grizalltheway wrote:
LeadBolt wrote:Christians are commanded to help the poor, the orphans and the widows, from their own abundance. No where are they commanded to stick their hand in someone else's pocket to do so.

I support government programs to provide a safety net, but I'm not sure of the morality of taking from one person under the compulsion of the law to give to another.

This one presents a moral dilemma.
Are Christians (catholics in particular) who give money to an organization that knowingly and willfully defends pedophiles faced with a moral dilemma? Food for thought. :coffee:
We all are in many moral dilemmas and are all hypocrites, to greater or lesser degrees.

Is there a difference in being taxpaying Americans who pay taxes to support our President, Vice President, Secretaries, Generals, Senators and Congresspeople who do similar things and try to cover it up to defend their actions?
Last edited by LeadBolt on Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
SDHornet
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 19511
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:50 pm
I am a fan of: Sacramento State Hornets

Re: WWJC?

Post by SDHornet »

GannonFan wrote:Seriously, man, are you just new to the debate? You really think that the separation of church is state is that cut and dry? Have you read anything on the issue other than the wiki page?
Nope. Read Amendment 1 and decided no more info is needed. :kisswink:
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69211
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: WWJC?

Post by kalm »

LeadBolt wrote:Christians are commanded to help the poor, the orphans and the widows, from their own abundance. No where are they commanded to stick their hand in someone else's pocket to do so.

I support government programs to provide a safety net, but I'm not sure of the morality of taking from one person under the compulsion of the law to give to another.

This one presents a moral dilemma.
I took a trip to Seattle on interstate highways, rode on a ferry system overseen by the DHS, ate a USDA inspected steak, and took FDA approved medications. How much do I need to put back in yours and Hogan's pocket? And can I, in turn petition Exxon, Haliburton, BofA, Rick Scott, and Rand Paul for the money they took out of mine? ;)

I agree its a moral dilemma and I'm all for welfare reform. But I'm not so sure Jesus was a libertarian.
Image
Image
Image
JoltinJoe
Level4
Level4
Posts: 7050
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:42 pm

Re: WWJC?

Post by JoltinJoe »

kalm wrote:
LeadBolt wrote:Christians are commanded to help the poor, the orphans and the widows, from their own abundance. No where are they commanded to stick their hand in someone else's pocket to do so.

I support government programs to provide a safety net, but I'm not sure of the morality of taking from one person under the compulsion of the law to give to another.

This one presents a moral dilemma.
I took a trip to Seattle on interstate highways, rode on a ferry system overseen by the DHS, ate a USDA inspected steak, and took FDA approved medications. How much do I need to put back in yours and Hogan's pocket? And can I, in turn petition Exxon, Haliburton, BofA, Rick Scott, and Rand Paul for the money they took out of mine? ;)

I agree its a moral dilemma and I'm all for welfare reform. But I'm not so sure Jesus was a libertarian.
kalm, you raise some good points, but I have to call you on your statement about putting money "back" in people's pockets.

That money belonged to us, and was taxed by the government. And while I understand the need to fund our federal government, I pay much more to the government every year than I spend on my own children, and that in my mind is deeply troubling. Is my duty to the government really greater than my duty to my children?

Please don't call me rich. I am not rich. I work hard and make a very good salary for sure. But what's keeping me from becoming rich is that, when all taxes are taken into account, I pay more than 50% of what I earn in some form of tax.
User avatar
GannonFan
Level5
Level5
Posts: 19233
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:51 am
I am a fan of: Delaware
A.K.A.: Non-Partisan Hack

Re: WWJC?

Post by GannonFan »

SDHornet wrote:
GannonFan wrote:Seriously, man, are you just new to the debate? You really think that the separation of church is state is that cut and dry? Have you read anything on the issue other than the wiki page?
Nope. Read Amendment 1 and decided no more info is needed. :kisswink:
Hence why you are no legal scholar. :nod:
Proud Member of the Blue Hen Nation
Post Reply