The Worklessness Crisis

[AZGrizFan]

WTF is wrong with greed? Greed doesn't just drive pain and suffering, over the course of history, it has also driven incredible progress. Marxists think that they can get rid of greed, classes, and wealth and that everything else will remain static. It won't. Greed, ambition, etc. are critical to innovation and the advancement of the human race.

Really?

The Marxists running the world's biggest economy don't seem to be thinking that way at all.....

well that's because they're not doing it right.

[houndawg]

Really?

The Marxists running the world's biggest economy don't seem to be thinking that way at all.....

Where would the Marxists running the world's biggest economy be if they couldn't have stolen the intellectual property of western countries and companies through espionage and thuggery? If they hadn't been able to send their best and brightest to western universities for decades?

I wait for your flippant and shallow answer.

If we're any good at industrial espionage we'll simply steal their intellectual property in areas they're ahead of us, like quantum computing and the weaponry CID mentions now and then. Maybe start sending engineering students to their universities so we can be up on the latest.

You whining about industrial espionage like its a one-way street...

[houndawg]

Really?

The Marxists running the world's biggest economy don't seem to be thinking that way at all.....

well that's because they're not doing it right.

Maybe not, but - they're kicking the shit out of us just 75 years after WW2 left them a starving third-world shithole.

[AZGrizFan]

well that's because they're not doing it right.

Maybe not, but - they're kicking the shit out of us just 75 years after WW2 left them a starving third-world shithole.

You measure their success by current position in the world market. Perhaps we should ask their populace how they feel? Or how about the Uyghurs?

[SDHornet]

WTF is wrong with greed? Greed doesn't just drive pain and suffering, over the course of history, it has also driven incredible progress. Marxists think that they can get rid of greed, classes, and wealth and that everything else will remain static. It won't. Greed, ambition, etc. are critical to innovation and the advancement of the human race.

Simple…greed is not in accordance with man’s best nature as a member of a social species and resident of the planet.

Marxism is another convenient term for everything conks don’t like. It has replaced liberal. Cutting taxes is the answer. Increase economic growth? Cut taxes. Lower unemployment? Cut taxes. Save the forests? Cut taxes. Cure cancer? Cut taxes. Protect voting access? MARXISM!!!

I’m trying to look back further than a 19th century book on impractical economic class theory.

Greed like capitalism is good…if regulated properly.

Meh, only uneducated people don't understand the difference.

[kalm]

Simple…greed is not in accordance with man’s best nature as a member of a social species and resident of the planet.

Marxism is another convenient term for everything conks don’t like. It has replaced liberal. Cutting taxes is the answer. Increase economic growth? Cut taxes. Lower unemployment? Cut taxes. Save the forests? Cut taxes. Cure cancer? Cut taxes. Protect voting access? MARXISM!!!

I’m trying to look back further than a 19th century book on impractical economic class theory.

Greed like capitalism is good…if regulated properly.

Meh, only uneducated people don't understand the difference.

Are you saying your entire side of the aisle aren’t educated? For shame.

[UNI88]

Meh, only uneducated people don't understand the difference.

Are you saying your entire side of the aisle aren’t educated? For shame.

I think he's saying that people who believe that "Marxism is another convenient term for everything conks don’t like. It has replaced liberal" are uneducated and don't understand the difference.

[Baldy]

WTF is wrong with greed? Greed doesn't just drive pain and suffering, over the course of history, it has also driven incredible progress. Marxists think that they can get rid of greed, classes, and wealth and that everything else will remain static. It won't. Greed, ambition, etc. are critical to innovation and the advancement of the human race.

Simple…greed is not in accordance with man’s best nature as a member of a social species and resident of the planet.

Greed is a common part and unavoidable characteristic of human nature.

Marxism is another convenient term for everything conks don’t like. It has replaced liberal. Cutting taxes is the answer. Increase economic growth? Cut taxes. Lower unemployment? Cut taxes. Save the forests? Cut taxes. Cure cancer? Cut taxes. Protect voting access? MARXISM!!!

Is this similar to Donks calling everything and everyone they don't like Fascist?

[UNI88]

Simple…greed is not in accordance with man’s best nature as a member of a social species and resident of the planet.

Greed is a common part and unavoidable characteristic of human nature.

Marxism is another convenient term for everything conks don’t like. It has replaced liberal. Cutting taxes is the answer. Increase economic growth? Cut taxes. Lower unemployment? Cut taxes. Save the forests? Cut taxes. Cure cancer? Cut taxes. Protect voting access? MARXISM!!!

Is this similar to Donks calling everything and everyone they don't like Fascist?

Yes, greed is. There is a chance that humanity could evolve to the point where socialism might actually work but we're a long way from it.

I guess Kalm doesn't agree with Adam Smith.

[kalm]

Simple…greed is not in accordance with man’s best nature as a member of a social species and resident of the planet.

Greed is a common part and unavoidable characteristic of human nature.

Marxism is another convenient term for everything conks don’t like. It has replaced liberal. Cutting taxes is the answer. Increase economic growth? Cut taxes. Lower unemployment? Cut taxes. Save the forests? Cut taxes. Cure cancer? Cut taxes. Protect voting access? MARXISM!!!

Is this similar to Donks calling everything and everyone they don't like Fascist?

1). Yes…there is a greed side of human nature. Sone of it natural some of it cultural. It doesn’t mean it’s always a good thing if at all not does it mean we can’t resist it. See violence.

2). Yes…and when you carelessly throw out those terms you cheapen their actual meaning.

[kalm]

Greed is a common part and unavoidable characteristic of human nature.


Is this similar to Donks calling everything and everyone they don't like Fascist?

Yes, greed is. There is a chance that humanity could evolve to the point where socialism might actually work but we're a long way from it.

I guess Kalm doesn't agree with Adam Smith.

Not completely or as his theories apply today but then again neither do you.

[UNI88]

Yes, greed is. There is a chance that humanity could evolve to the point where socialism might actually work but we're a long way from it.

I guess Kalm doesn't agree with Adam Smith.

Not completely or as his theories apply today but then again neither do you.

I have no doubt in my mind that if we go where Bernie, AOChe, etc. want us to, that the private sector will become less appealing and less productive. Ambitious people will target careers in government where they can advance their own self interests. The development of advancements that would greatly improve our quality of life will slow our country will stagnate. The end result will be similar to what happened in the Soviet Union and we'll be worse off then if we had remained a capitalistic, market-driven economy.

[CID1990]

Not completely or as his theories apply today but then again neither do you.

I have no doubt in my mind that if we go where Bernie, AOChe, etc. want us to, that the private sector will become less appealing and less productive. Ambitious people will target careers in government where they can advance their own self interests. The development of advancements that would greatly improve our quality of life will slow our country will stagnate. The end result will be similar to what happened in the Soviet Union and we'll be worse off then if we had remained a capitalistic, market-driven economy.

It takes a really special brand of soft-headedness to think otherwise, given the evidence.


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[kalm]

Not completely or as his theories apply today but then again neither do you.

I have no doubt in my mind that if we go where Bernie, AOChe, etc. want us to, that the private sector will become less appealing and less productive. Ambitious people will target careers in government where they can advance their own self interests. The development of advancements that would greatly improve our quality of life will slow our country will stagnate. The end result will be similar to what happened in the Soviet Union and we'll be worse off then if we had remained a capitalistic, market-driven economy.

We’re already headed that direction with public jobs. Why? Because we’re too socialist? Or because the current system makes the security of those jobs more appealing? I think it’s very much due to the culture you and I have lived in. Uber-competitive, win at all costs, it’s only illegal if you get caught. Rewarding grift. legalized corruption in politics where private sector success is largely based on political access, campaign “donations” buying out or killing the competition, etc. than it is by producing quality.

But yeah…let’s double down and promote these things even further…

[Ibanez]

I have no doubt in my mind that if we go where Bernie, AOChe, etc. want us to, that the private sector will become less appealing and less productive. Ambitious people will target careers in government where they can advance their own self interests. The development of advancements that would greatly improve our quality of life will slow our country will stagnate. The end result will be similar to what happened in the Soviet Union and we'll be worse off then if we had remained a capitalistic, market-driven economy.

We’re already headed that direction with public jobs. Why? Because we’re too socialist? Or because the current system makes the security of those jobs more appealing? I think it’s very much due to the culture you and I have lived in. Uber-competitive, win at all costs, it’s only illegal if you get caught. Rewarding grift. legalized corruption in politics where private sector success is largely based on political access, campaign “donations” buying out or killing the competition, etc. than it is by producing quality.

But yeah…let’s double down and promote these things even further…

To me the base problem which you don't see addressed (or I haven't yet) is that people are trying to build a perfect system with imperfect people. We are greedy, self-preserving animals. We'll do what is necessary to survive. Given our varying qualities and traits, some of us are more ambitious than others.

Trying to devise or build Thomas More's Utopia is a fools errand and is something we will never achieve. That isn't to say we shouldn't strive for a more perfect union but we have to be crystal clear of what our human capabilities are; what our human instincts and traits will allow and that is NOT a Socialist Utopia. You want to see class stratification worse than what we have now? You want to see income and opportunity inequality worse than we see know - implement the "ideals" of AOC and Bernie. Capitilism isn't the end all/be all and it's not without its problems but it allows creativity, innovation and the ability for someone to make something of themselves.


And btw, From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs is nice in theory but you are just asking inequality.

[kalm]

We’re already headed that direction with public jobs. Why? Because we’re too socialist? Or because the current system makes the security of those jobs more appealing? I think it’s very much due to the culture you and I have lived in. Uber-competitive, win at all costs, it’s only illegal if you get caught. Rewarding grift. legalized corruption in politics where private sector success is largely based on political access, campaign “donations” buying out or killing the competition, etc. than it is by producing quality.

But yeah…let’s double down and promote these things even further…

To me the base problem which you don't see addressed (or I haven't yet) is that people are trying to build a perfect system with imperfect people. We are greedy, self-preserving animals. We'll do what is necessary to survive. Given our varying qualities and traits, some of us are more ambitious than others.

Trying to devise or build Thomas More's Utopia is a fools errand and is something we will never achieve. That isn't to say we shouldn't strive for a more perfect union but we have to be crystal clear of what our human capabilities are; what our human instincts and traits will allow and that is NOT a Socialist Utopia. You want to see class stratification worse than what we have now? You want to see income and opportunity inequality worse than we see know - implement the "ideals" of AOC and Bernie. Capitilism isn't the end all/be all and it's not without its problems but it allows creativity, innovation and the ability for someone to make something of themselves.


And btw, From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs is nice in theory but you are just asking inequality.

Socialist utopias don’t exist. Neither do capitalist. I don’t expect a perfect system. But we can do better. Greed is not necessary to survival at least in a modern culture. But even in Hunter gathering cultures, they recognize greed as negative and community as necessary.

[UNI88]

To me the base problem which you don't see addressed (or I haven't yet) is that people are trying to build a perfect system with imperfect people. We are greedy, self-preserving animals. We'll do what is necessary to survive. Given our varying qualities and traits, some of us are more ambitious than others.

Trying to devise or build Thomas More's Utopia is a fools errand and is something we will never achieve. That isn't to say we shouldn't strive for a more perfect union but we have to be crystal clear of what our human capabilities are; what our human instincts and traits will allow and that is NOT a Socialist Utopia. You want to see class stratification worse than what we have now? You want to see income and opportunity inequality worse than we see know - implement the "ideals" of AOC and Bernie. Capitilism isn't the end all/be all and it's not without its problems but it allows creativity, innovation and the ability for someone to make something of themselves.

And btw, From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs is nice in theory but you are just asking inequality.

Socialist utopias don’t exist. Neither do capitalist. I don’t expect a perfect system. But we can do better. Greed is not necessary to survival at least in a modern culture. But even in Hunter gathering cultures, they recognize greed as negative and community as necessary.

Ibanez nailed it.

The shift toward public jobs is a bad thing. It used to be that public work was appealing despite the lower pay because of stability, good benefits and a good retirement plan. Make it competitive from a pay perspective and you start siphoning ambitious talent from the private sector. What will that talent produce working for the government? If we're lucky, they'll improve processes or strategies but they're unlikely to come up with a potential solution to global warming, a medical breakthrough or something that makes food available to the poor. We need public workers but we need the majority of our best and brightest working in the private sector if we want to advance the human race.

[kalm]

Socialist utopias don’t exist. Neither do capitalist. I don’t expect a perfect system. But we can do better. Greed is not necessary to survival at least in a modern culture. But even in Hunter gathering cultures, they recognize greed as negative and community as necessary.

Ibanez nailed it.

The shift toward public jobs is a bad thing. It used to be that public work was appealing despite the lower pay because of stability, good benefits and a good retirement plan. Make it competitive from a pay perspective and you start siphoning ambitious talent from the private sector. What will that talent produce working for the government? If we're lucky, they'll improve processes or strategies but they're unlikely to come up with a potential solution to global warming, a medical breakthrough or something that makes food available to the poor. We need public workers but we need the majority of our best and brightest working in the private sector if we want to advance the human race.

I agree with this. It’s just not the path we’re on…which has been deregulation and neoliberalism.

[AZGrizFan]

Ibanez nailed it.

The shift toward public jobs is a bad thing. It used to be that public work was appealing despite the lower pay because of stability, good benefits and a good retirement plan. Make it competitive from a pay perspective and you start siphoning ambitious talent from the private sector. What will that talent produce working for the government? If we're lucky, they'll improve processes or strategies but they're unlikely to come up with a potential solution to global warming, a medical breakthrough or something that makes food available to the poor. We need public workers but we need the majority of our best and brightest working in the private sector if we want to advance the human race.

I agree with this. It’s just not the path we’re on…which has been deregulation and neoliberalism.

Deregulation. Yeah, that’s why there are fewer and fewer bills/regulations passed and more and more are sunsetted each year.

We may have short (VERY short) periods where some “deregulation” gets passed, but we are NOT on a “path of deregulation”….

[UNI88]

I agree with this. It’s just not the path we’re on…which has been deregulation and neoliberalism.

Deregulation. Yeah, that’s why there are fewer and fewer bills/regulations passed and more and more are sunsetted each year.

We may have short (VERY short) periods where some “deregulation” gets passed, but we are NOT on a “path of deregulation”….

Kalm is Chicken Little when it comes to the direction of the government and deregulation.

[kalm]

Deregulation. Yeah, that’s why there are fewer and fewer bills/regulations passed and more and more are sunsetted each year.

We may have short (VERY short) periods where some “deregulation” gets passed, but we are NOT on a “path of deregulation”….

Kalm is Chicken Little when it comes to the direction of the government and deregulation.

It’s not any deregulation it’s where and what type.

[SDHornet]

I have no doubt in my mind that if we go where Bernie, AOChe, etc. want us to, that the private sector will become less appealing and less productive. Ambitious people will target careers in government where they can advance their own self interests. The development of advancements that would greatly improve our quality of life will slow our country will stagnate. The end result will be similar to what happened in the Soviet Union and we'll be worse off then if we had remained a capitalistic, market-driven economy.

It takes a really special brand of soft-headedness to think otherwise, given the evidence.


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It's almost like these people have never read a history book, or talked to an immigrant that fled one of those countries that has tried socialism "the wrong way".

[Winterborn]

It takes a really special brand of soft-headedness to think otherwise, given the evidence.


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It's almost like these people have never read a history book, or talked to an immigrant that fled one of those countries that has tried socialism "the wrong way".

If they did, it went in one ear and out the other.

[kalm]

It takes a really special brand of soft-headedness to think otherwise, given the evidence.


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It's almost like these people have never read a history book, or talked to an immigrant that fled one of those countries that has tried socialism "the wrong way".

Go try describing the nordics as socialist countries to self proclaimed socialists and and marxists and see what happens.

[SDHornet]

It's almost like these people have never read a history book, or talked to an immigrant that fled one of those countries that has tried socialism "the wrong way".

Go try describing the nordics as socialist countries to self proclaimed socialists and and marxists and see what happens.

Didn't you claim the nordics to be a mixed economy?