Trump is a Democrat Plant

[Chizzang]

I think Klam Dipper likes to go dressed as a Moderate because it pisses off john Stwrong.. (and you)

However:
I am NOT moderate
Just because I like the 2nd amendment the way it is - does not necessarily make me a moderate
and just because I honestly believe we DO NOT need to do anything with our taxation system
and that we generate HUGE amounts a revenue that we simply need to learn how to manage

Pretty much everywhere else I'm straight in the Liberal Loony Bin
Tax Churches - Yes - they are businesses
Free abortions at the airport - Yes
Hire more EPA agents - Yes
and on it goes...

this is me

CID likes to define things. Opposing views that don't fit HIS reality (we all have our own) are disturbing.

By Spokane standards I'm liberal because I don't hate government enough (although I hate it plenty). By Seattle standards I'm moderate. By American standards I'm also moderate. I hate government but appreciate its luxuries.

CID is begrudgingly pro choice, has no problem with "fags marrying", and like me is a fan of Pat Buchanon on foreign policy.

So there's all that!

You are no Seattle Liberal
You don't even have a native ear loop or tattoo on your face

Slacker....
Plus I'm pretty sure there's the occasional winter wheat chaff in your gym socks
which is a sure sign you ain't from around here

[OL FU]

i didnt call you a moderate, cheese dip

i placed you in a category of your own - only loosely tied to the klams who I facetiously refer to as moderates (only because thats how they want to be seen... reality notwithstanding)

I think Klam Dipper likes to go dressed as a Moderate because it pisses off john Stwrong.. (and you)

However:
I am NOT moderate
Just because I like the 2nd amendment the way it is - does not necessarily make me a moderate
and just because I honestly believe we DO NOT need to do anything with our taxation system
and that we generate HUGE amounts a revenue that we simply need to learn how to manage

Pretty much everywhere else I'm straight in the Liberal Loony Bin
Tax Churches - Yes - they are businesses
Free abortions at the airport - Yes
Hire more EPA agents - Yes
and on it goes...

this is me

Take out the Liberal part and you nailed it

[bluehenbillk]

The Trump tweet to Lindsey Graham on the SC poll = priceless.

[kalm]

CID likes to define things. Opposing views that don't fit HIS reality (we all have our own) are disturbing.

By Spokane standards I'm liberal because I don't hate government enough (although I hate it plenty). By Seattle standards I'm moderate. By American standards I'm also moderate. I hate government but appreciate its luxuries.

CID is begrudgingly pro choice, has no problem with "fags marrying", and like me is a fan of Pat Buchanon on foreign policy.

So there's all that!

You are no Seattle Liberal
You don't even have a native ear loop or tattoo on your face

Slacker....
Plus I'm pretty sure there's the occasional winter wheat chaff in your gym socks
which is a sure sign you ain't from around here

It's much worse than that! I spent every summer of my youth on the Kitsap Peninsula amongst the baby spotted owl killers and I golfed and worked on Bainbridge. When I told W. Wa kids I was from E. Wa they asked "what do you farm?"

I know your game.

[Ibanez]

The Trump tweet to Lindsey Graham on the SC poll = priceless.

I missed that. What was it?

[CID1990]

I think Klam Dipper likes to go dressed as a Moderate because it pisses off john Stwrong.. (and you)

However:
I am NOT moderate
Just because I like the 2nd amendment the way it is - does not necessarily make me a moderate
and just because I honestly believe we DO NOT need to do anything with our taxation system
and that we generate HUGE amounts a revenue that we simply need to learn how to manage

Pretty much everywhere else I'm straight in the Liberal Loony Bin
Tax Churches - Yes - they are businesses
Free abortions at the airport - Yes
Hire more EPA agents - Yes
and on it goes...

this is me

CID likes to define things. Opposing views that don't fit HIS reality (we all have our own) are disturbing.

By Spokane standards I'm liberal because I don't hate government enough (although I hate it plenty). By Seattle standards I'm moderate. By American standards I'm also moderate. I hate government but appreciate its luxuries.

CID is begrudgingly pro choice, has no problem with "fags marrying", and like me is a fan of Pat Buchanon on foreign policy.

So there's all that!

To thine own self be true, klam.

You can call yourself moderate all you want - you still quack, swim and walk like a duck

[kalm]

CID likes to define things. Opposing views that don't fit HIS reality (we all have our own) are disturbing.

By Spokane standards I'm liberal because I don't hate government enough (although I hate it plenty). By Seattle standards I'm moderate. By American standards I'm also moderate. I hate government but appreciate its luxuries.

CID is begrudgingly pro choice, has no problem with "fags marrying", and like me is a fan of Pat Buchanon on foreign policy.

So there's all that!

To thine own self be true, klam.

You can call yourself moderate all you want - you still quack, swim and walk like a duck

A majority of Americans still favor single payer. They are pro legalization of weed. They favor gay marriage. They want greater regulation of Wall Street. They oppose money in politics.

America votes moderate but polls progressive. I know how much this bothers you but you'll be ok.

[OL FU]

To thine own self be true, klam.

You can call yourself moderate all you want - you still quack, swim and walk like a duck

A majority of Americans still favor single payer. They are pro legalization of weed. They favor gay marriage. They want greater regulation of Wall Street. They oppose money in politics.

America votes moderate but polls progressive. I know how much this bothers you but you'll be ok.

Not saying you are wrong but which poll says that. (see bold). I have never seen one with that conclusion.

[CID1990]

To thine own self be true, klam.

You can call yourself moderate all you want - you still quack, swim and walk like a duck

A majority of Americans still favor single payer. They are pro legalization of weed. They favor gay marriage. They want greater regulation of Wall Street. They oppose money in politics.

America votes moderate but polls progressive. I know how much this bothers you but you'll be ok.

I guess somewhere in your head the things you are writing here are pertinent


I'd post a pic of chizzarts cat pushing a watermelon out of the ocean but I already stole cheese dip and the scent of boner from him

[kalm]

A majority of Americans still favor single payer. They are pro legalization of weed. They favor gay marriage. They want greater regulation of Wall Street. They oppose money in politics.

America votes moderate but polls progressive. I know how much this bothers you but you'll be ok.

I guess somewhere in your head the things you are writing here are pertinent


I'd post a pic of chizzarts cat pushing a watermelon out of the ocean but I already stole cheese dip and the scent of boner from him

Nothing here is as pertinent as your man crush on Chizzy.

Liberal monolithism is a politically warm, safe, place for you. "Grrr...those damn Hillary lovin' libs...dont they know 'murica is a conservative country???" Don't ever venture out!

[bluehenbillk]

The Trump tweet to Lindsey Graham on the SC poll = priceless.

I missed that. What was it?

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump Aug 25
Congrats @LindseyGrahamSC. You just got 4 points in your home state of SC—far better than zero nationally. You’re only 26 pts behind me.

[OL FU]

I missed that. What was it?

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump Aug 25
Congrats @LindseyGrahamSC. You just got 4 points in your home state of SC—far better than zero nationally. You’re only 26 pts behind me.

You have to Love Lindsey.

Senator Graham, what is your tax policy? I hate Hillary and I would bomb Isis.
Senator Graham. what do you think about Planned Parent hood? I hate Hillary and I would bomb Isis.


However, he is consistent

[kalm]

A majority of Americans still favor single payer. They are pro legalization of weed. They favor gay marriage. They want greater regulation of Wall Street. They oppose money in politics.

America votes moderate but polls progressive. I know how much this bothers you but you'll be ok.

Not saying you are wrong but which poll says that. (see bold). I have never seen one with that conclusion.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/22 ... poll-finds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At least one poll suggests it. Not exactly a strong majority but it at least shows even some Republican support.

[OL FU]

Not saying you are wrong but which poll says that. (see bold). I have never seen one with that conclusion.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/22 ... poll-finds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At least one poll suggests it. Not exactly a strong majority but it at least shows even some Republican support.

I did a quick google search and it looks like the polls vary. 50% isn't much of a majority. I am not necessarily a supporter but I do believe (1) it would be better than the ACA which took a bad situation and made it worse (2) if the majority (somewhere larger than 50%) support universal healthcare, I think the idea of an insurance voucher for all might be worth exploring (at least that might let the market place work again) and (3) if that doesn't work then single payer is an option.

OF course I realize that wasn't your point, although being rather conservative politically, I suppose I am making your point.

[BDKJMU]

A majority of Americans still favor single payer. They are pro legalization of weed. They favor gay marriage. They want greater regulation of Wall Street. They oppose money in politics.

America votes moderate but polls progressive. I know how much this bothers you but you'll be ok.

Not saying you are wrong but which poll says that. (see bold). I have never seen one with that conclusion.

Exactly. A majority can be in favor of issue X when asked 1 way, but when asked another way a majority an be against issue "x".

A large chunk of Americans probably don't know what single payer means. So the results of the poll would depend GREATLY on how single payer is defined, how it is asked, and what is included/omitted.
"Are you in cavor of free, govt run health care for all?" Overwhelming majority would probably answer yes.
"Are you in favor of free, govt run health care for all paid for with higher taxes, with longer waiting periods to get care with less ability to chjose your doctors and with an overall lower quality if health care?" An overwhelming najority would probably say no.

And also its true now that a majority polled favor gay marriage, but between 04'-14' voters in 34 of 38 state referendums voted against gay marriage. So its either some people polled will say one thing and do the opposite in the voting booth (well documented Bradley), or a lower % of the pro gay marriage folks vote. Maybe a little of both. Bottom line is just because a national poll says a majority are in favor of issue "x" doesn't mean the majority of voters are.

Bottom line if you're going to make a claim that majority of "Americans" favor certain issues you need to include link a link for each claim with polls so people can see exactly how the questions are worded, whether or not its registered voters, likely voters, etc...

[kalm]

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/22 ... poll-finds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At least one poll suggests it. Not exactly a strong majority but it at least shows even some Republican support.

I did a quick google search and it looks like the polls vary. 50% isn't much of a majority. I am not necessarily a supporter but I do believe (1) it would be better than the ACA which took a bad situation and made it worse (2) if the majority (somewhere larger than 50%) support universal healthcare, I think the idea of an insurance voucher for all might be worth exploring (at least that might let the market place work again) and (3) if that doesn't work then single payer is an option.

OF course I realize that wasn't your point, although being rather conservative politically, I suppose I am making your point.

I totally agree with this.

If there's a market based solution or option that reduces costs, I'm all for it.

Government should not be able to coerce businesses into providing insurance for their employees.

For profit care and manufacturing are fine. For profit insurance is an unnecessary expense.

[Chizzang]

You rang..?

[OL FU]

I did a quick google search and it looks like the polls vary. 50% isn't much of a majority. I am not necessarily a supporter but I do believe (1) it would be better than the ACA which took a bad situation and made it worse (2) if the majority (somewhere larger than 50%) support universal healthcare, I think the idea of an insurance voucher for all might be worth exploring (at least that might let the market place work again) and (3) if that doesn't work then single payer is an option.

OF course I realize that wasn't your point, although being rather conservative politically, I suppose I am making your point.

I totally agree with this.

If there's a market based solution or option that reduces costs, I'm all for it.

Government should not be able to coerce businesses into providing insurance for their employees.

For profit care and manufacturing are fine. For profit insurance is an unnecessary expense.

To be clear the voucher idea is insurance based. It would be a per person voucher, to buy insurance lifting the state restrictions creating a large pool of insurance providers available to each person. Obviously, there would have to be some standards and some allowances made for people not capable of making that decision for themselves, but after that the government would get out of the way and, to the extent possible, the insurance companies would once again be competing, in a freer market, for customers. Lots of fill in the blanks here, and I really have no clue what it would cost or if it would work but I think it is something worth considering before simply turning over healthcare to the government.

Honestly, as I have said before my one experience with single payer didn't leave me with the warm and fuzzies. While working in Canada during the Hillarycare debate, I asked Canadians what they thought of their healthcare system. The people I asked were middle class to upper middle class for full disclosure. To a person they said they didn't know. If they needed a doctor they went to the US.

[BDKJMU]

I totally agree with this.

If there's a market based solution or option that reduces costs, I'm all for it.

Government should not be able to coerce businesses into providing insurance for their employees.

For profit care and manufacturing are fine. For profit insurance is an unnecessary expense.

To be clear the voucher idea is insurance based. It would be a per person voucher, to buy insurance lifting the state restrictions creating a large pool of insurance providers available to each person. Obviously, there would have to be some standards and some allowances made for people not capable of making that decision for themselves, but after that the government would get out of the way and, to the extent possible, the insurance companies would once again be competing, in a freer market, for customers. Lots of fill in the blanks here, and I really have no clue what it would cost or if it would work but I think it is something worth considering before simply turning over healthcare to the government.

Honestly, as I have said before my one experience with single payer didn't leave me with the warm and fuzzies. While working in Canada during the Hillarycare debate, I asked Canadians what they thought of their healthcare system. The people I asked were middle class to upper middle class for full disclosure. To a person they said they didn't know. If they needed a doctor they went to the US.

Yep that pretty much tells you all you need to know about which system is better..

My brother worked in Greece for a couple of years. I remember hearing that their universal health care was terrible and anyone with $$ went to a private doc. So when he got sick he of course went to a private doc.

Also the UK is no paradigm of efficiency either. BBC article in March:
NHS problems 'at their worst since 1990s'
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-32057948" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[kalm]

To be clear the voucher idea is insurance based. It would be a per person voucher, to buy insurance lifting the state restrictions creating a large pool of insurance providers available to each person. Obviously, there would have to be some standards and some allowances made for people not capable of making that decision for themselves, but after that the government would get out of the way and, to the extent possible, the insurance companies would once again be competing, in a freer market, for customers. Lots of fill in the blanks here, and I really have no clue what it would cost or if it would work but I think it is something worth considering before simply turning over healthcare to the government.

Honestly, as I have said before my one experience with single payer didn't leave me with the warm and fuzzies. While working in Canada during the Hillarycare debate, I asked Canadians what they thought of their healthcare system. The people I asked were middle class to upper middle class for full disclosure. To a person they said they didn't know. If they needed a doctor they went to the US.

Yep that pretty much tells you all you need to know about which system is better..

My brother worked in Greece for a couple of years. I remember hearing that their universal health care was terrible and anyone with $$ went to a private doc. So when he got sick he of course went to a private doc.

Also the UK is no paradigm of efficiency either. BBC article in March:
NHS problems 'at their worst since 1990s'
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-32057948" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No one likes their system but OECD stats on outcomes disagree with you.

[BDKJMU]

Yep that pretty much tells you all you need to know about which system is better..

My brother worked in Greece for a couple of years. I remember hearing that their universal health care was terrible and anyone with $$ went to a private doc. So when he got sick he of course went to a private doc.

Also the UK is no paradigm of efficiency either. BBC article in March:
NHS problems 'at their worst since 1990s'
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-32057948" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No one likes their system but OECD stats on outcomes disagree with you.

Yeah, the Canadians who come to the US to get better heakth care are wrong and would really get better healthcare if they stayed in Canada..even though they live there they just don't know it..

[Chizzang]

You are no Seattle Liberal
You don't even have a native ear loop or tattoo on your face

Slacker....
Plus I'm pretty sure there's the occasional winter wheat chaff in your gym socks
which is a sure sign you ain't from around here

It's much worse than that! I spent every summer of my youth on the Kitsap Peninsula amongst the baby spotted owl killers and I golfed and worked on Bainbridge. When I told W. Wa kids I was from E. Wa they asked "what do you farm?"

I know your game.

So you admit that you do have the occasional winter wheat chaff in your gym sock..?

[CID1990]

Yep that pretty much tells you all you need to know about which system is better..

My brother worked in Greece for a couple of years. I remember hearing that their universal health care was terrible and anyone with $$ went to a private doc. So when he got sick he of course went to a private doc.

Also the UK is no paradigm of efficiency either. BBC article in March:
NHS problems 'at their worst since 1990s'
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-32057948" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No one likes their system but OECD stats on outcomes disagree with you.

That's because ALL outcomes are included- which means the cash med system that the wealthy use is included

Every country - EVERY country that has socialized medicine has two systems. One for people who can pay outright (a very good one) and then the government one for everybody else

We will be there in a very short time, obamacare will be to blame, and you'll be moaning about it as an extension of your "big bad money" schtick

[Pwns]

How many of these "outcomes" are obesity-related maladies and stats without any standard for measurement (e.g. infant mortality)? That's mostly what I see when "outcomes" are cited.

[kalm]

No one likes their system but OECD stats on outcomes disagree with you.

That's because ALL outcomes are included- which means the cash med system that the wealthy use is included

Every country - EVERY country that has socialized medicine has two systems. One for people who can pay outright (a very good one) and then the government one for everybody else

We will be there in a very short time, obamacare will be to blame, and you'll be moaning about it as an extension of your "big bad money" schtick

So........they have socialized basic plans and cadillac plans and their outcomes are equal, sometimes better, and at way less expense than our system?

Cool. Perhaps we should try that.

I just feel sorry that Europeans don't allow rich folks.