Government shutdowns and public relations

[GannonFan]

Great commentary from CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/02/opinion/g ... ?hpt=hp_t1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm paying taxes for what? No government, no taxes, I want a refund. I wonder how the IRS would treat that itemized deduction this winter????

May have just been easier for you to find 93 in the stands last weekend, kick him in the nuts, and make off with his wallet, while mocking him "thanks for the refund, bitch!". Now that's a shutdown.

[93henfan]

I guess the one nice side effect of the shutdown for me, Col H, Trip, and 89Hen is that there will be 300,000 less motherfuckers on the road at rush hour in the DC area.

I was hoping that's the case but traffic sucked ass again this morning. Would seem every road between my house and work (only 7 miles) is having utility work done... Pepco trimming trees, WSSC working on sewer, installing sidewalks... is TARP still going??

ARRA is what I believe you meant. That was FY10 and 11 money IIRC and yes, some of those projects are still ongoing. I dealt with that at NIST. Many of the construction projects are based off rushed design work with the same money and was awarded to a bunch of small businesses with questionable resources and capability. A true government cluster F.

[GannonFan]

I was hoping that's the case but traffic sucked ass again this morning. Would seem every road between my house and work (only 7 miles) is having utility work done... Pepco trimming trees, WSSC working on sewer, installing sidewalks... is TARP still going??

ARRA is what I believe you meant. That was FY10 and 11 money IIRC and yes, some of those projects are still ongoing. I dealt with that at NIST. Many of the construction projects are based off rushed design work with the same money and was awarded to a bunch of small businesses with questionable resources and capability. A true government cluster F.

And that isn't just restricted to the DC area - we have tons of road projects up our way that are similarly awarded - amazed that some of these jobs only have a small handful of people working them and the schedule is close to 10 years on some of the jobs. They're doing a bridge over the turnpike (so a two lane road going over a six lane road) near me that will take a good 12 months - only takes that long because they only work at night and there's never more than 4 guys doing the work.

[mrklean]

Great commentary from CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/02/opinion/g ... ?hpt=hp_t1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm paying taxes for what? No government, no taxes, I want a refund. I wonder how the IRS would treat that itemized deduction this winter????

May have just been easier for you to find 93 in the stands last weekend, kick him in the nuts, and make off with his wallet, while mocking him "thanks for the refund, bitch!". Now that's a shutdown.

[Ibanez]

So, the gov't is shut down, right? They are closed for business. We paid for them to operate (i.e. Taxes).

Shouldn't we get a refund?

[CAA Flagship]

So, the gov't is shut down, right? They are closed for business. We paid for them to operate (i.e. Taxes).

Shouldn't we get a refund?

No because we have to pay for 93's retro pay after his month long vacation.

[93henfan]

So, the gov't is shut down, right? They are closed for business. We paid for them to operate (i.e. Taxes).

Shouldn't we get a refund?

Did you not read what BillK posted?

That's the same question posed by CNN in the article he posted and it's a flawed question. Less than 20% of "Government" shut down. All the "essential" functions of Government continue to run: Dept of Defense, Intelligence Community, Social Security, Medicare, Food Stamps, etc.

The salaries of those of us not getting paid right now is a drop in the bucket. And I understand GF is joking above, but what fucking refund do I owe anyone. I am paid for services I provide, just like any other worker. I'm not a politician or policy maker. I don't make any decisions about your taxes. I also pay taxes and for benefits. For the millionth time, don't confuse federal civilian employees with Congress, the White House, or the Supreme Court. We're pawns, and we're taking a heavy hit right now. Not getting paid isn't a talking point for us.

[93henfan]

So, the gov't is shut down, right? They are closed for business. We paid for them to operate (i.e. Taxes).

Shouldn't we get a refund?

No because we have to pay for 93's retro pay after his month long vacation.

What retro pay? That was done in 96 but there's no guarantee of that now, particularly with the current climate of Tea Party idiots. Keep joking if it makes you feel good. I'm not really in a joking mood about this.

[bluehenbillk]

Actually now that its been brought up I did see 93 in the stands last week & went over pregame & talked to him & his dad.

If you want to at least get a chuckle in over this, leave it to John Stewart:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsAccnhGUjw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Conks may not wanna watch....

[TheDancinMonarch]

Actually now that its been brought up I did see 93 in the stands last week & went over pregame & talked to him & his dad.

If you want to at least get a chuckle in over this, leave it to John Stewart:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsAccnhGUjw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Conks may not wanna watch....

Too many headers!

[BDKJMU]

Talk about bad public relations...the 0Bama Administration had barriers put up around the World War II Memorial...no one works there except the police that protect it, and they are still working...

So a group of WWII veterans, on a long scheduled trip to their memorial, were blocked...until several Republican members of cCongress moved the barriers, cut the police tape, and escorted the veterans into the Memorial...

WTF...BLOCK OFF THE WWII MEMORIAL...

That's just plan evil on the part of the Administration...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... n/2903341/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Almost as bad- they sent a bunch of their thugs out to close down an NPS site that receives ZERO fed funding.

"......According to Anna Eberly, managing director of the farm, NPS sent law enforcement agents to the park on Tuesday evening to remove staff and volunteers from the property.

“You do have to wonder about the wisdom of an organization that would use staff they don’t have the money to pay to evict visitors from a park site that operates without costing them any money,” she said.

The park withstood prior government shutdowns, noting in a news release that the farm will be closed to the public for the first time in 40 years......"
http://freebeacon.com/shutdown-theater/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[89Hen]

If you want to at least get a chuckle in over this, leave it to John Stewart:

Conks may not wanna watch....

Meh, a Dem circle jerk is just as dull as a Rep circle jerk.

[∞∞∞]

I guess the one nice side effect of the shutdown for me, Col H, Trip, and 89Hen is that there will be 300,000 less motherfuckers on the road at rush hour in the DC area.

It just took me an hour to get from Fairfax to Manassas (23 miles). Even a shutdown can't save this traffic.

But seriously, I'm sorry that this is occurring to you and many others I know. Yes, I do lean left but I try my best to appreciate both sides. However, I purely put the blame on the GOP (specifically the Tea Party) for this shutdown. According to most (all?) polls, it seems like the majority of Americans share the sentiment.

[93henfan]

I guess the one nice side effect of the shutdown for me, Col H, Trip, and 89Hen is that there will be 300,000 less motherfuckers on the road at rush hour in the DC area.

It just took me an hour to get from Fairfax to Manassas (23 miles). Even a shutdown can't save this traffic.

But seriously, I'm sorry that this is occurring to you and many others I know. Yes, I do lean left but I try my best to appreciate both sides. However, I purely put the blame on the GOP (specifically the Tea Party) for this shutdown. According to most (all?) polls, it seems like the majority of Americans share the sentiment.

First point: It's absolutely the Tea Party. They've decided to hold 800,000 families hostage to cry like babies about their loss in the legislative process (Obamacare). Hey, I don't like Obamacare either, but this is the wrong way to try to roll it back. I cannot wait until the Tea Party is relegated to the scrap heap of history. Biggest. Babies. Ever.

Second point: This is a no-win situation for federal employees. If we get back pay when this is over, we get to hear more snide remarks from clueless idiots. If we don't, then it's going to be a spartan autumn and a sparse Christmas for our children. Savings will be used to pay bills, and the impact to the economy will be tangible. $300M per day in salary is being pulled from the economy.

Third point: On DC traffic, perhaps having 300,000 people not in their offices and using their individual cars while unemployed instead of mass transit causes more of a mess.

[BDKJMU]

Actually now that its been brought up I did see 93 in the stands last week & went over pregame & talked to him & his dad.

If you want to at least get a chuckle in over this, leave it to John Stewart:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsAccnhGUjw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Conks may not wanna watch....

Why would conks want to watch a liberal donk comedian?

[JohnStOnge]

First point: It's absolutely the Tea Party. They've decided to hold 800,000 families hostage to cry like babies about their loss in the legislative process (Obamacare). Hey, I don't like Obamacare either, but this is the wrong way to try to roll it back. I cannot wait until the Tea Party is relegated to the scrap heap of history. Biggest. Babies. Ever.

What they're doing is part of the legislative process. There is absolutely nothing inherently "wrong" with it.

Otherwise, it amazes me that you place no blame on the Democrats. Yes, the House Republicans are saying they are willing to see government "shut down" rather than put forth a continuing resolution without anything related to impeding the Affordable Care Act in it. But the Senate Republicans and the President are just as certainly saying they are willing to see government "shut down" if they don't get THEIR way. Additionally, it is clear that the Republicans have been willing to try to adjust and compromise a little on the point while the Democrats have adopted a strict "We will not negotiate" posture.

Really. Why can't the Democrats agree to fund the things both sides agree on funding? Like I posted a video about the Republicans putting forth action to fund NIH. Both sides agree on funding that. Why can't the Democrats just agree to fund it?

If you can both agree on what to fund why not do it? The Republicans are willing to do that. The Democrats are not.

Think about it. Go back to the beginning. There was agreement on funding everything but the Affordable Care Act. It was the Democrat side that said, "If you will not also fund the thing we DON'T agree on we will not agree to fund ANY of it."

Blaming the Republicans for the Democrats refusing to sign off on funding what everybody agrees to is insane. But it's widespread.

[BDKJMU]

More on completely UNECESSARY closures by the NPS. Obama is doing the same thing as with sequestration, order his cabinet heads to do whatever they can to make this as painfull as possible in a shameful attempt to score political points. Well, the public should ignore the barricades and closure signs because they are totally uncalled for. Move them whatever.

"The Obama Administration has decided to block access to public memorials on the National Mall as a result of the government shutdown. Like its decision to end White House tours when the sequester cuts took effect, there is no rational reason for this. The Park Police, nominally in charge of monitoring these spaces, isn't even effected by the shutdown. Shutting off access to these sites is gratuitous and petulant.

On Monday, the first day of the government shutdown, a number of WWII veterans showed up at a memorial to their service to find that access had been blocked. The memorial is in a public space and is open 24/7, with almost no oversight from Park Police personnel. (Who, by the way, are exempt from the government shutdown.) The White House was, according to reports, informed of the veterans' visit and chose to block access.

Having lived in DC for 18 years, I can tell you, the WWII Memorial is simply an architectural structure in an open public space. There is no official "access" to it. There are no guards. It's a building in a park. Yet, the Obama Administration tried to block veterans from viewing the public memorial, even after hearing about the planned visit.

Fortunately, the "greatest generation" was having nothing of this and easily overcame the government barricades. (Do we yet again have to rely on this generation to show the promise of America?)

On Wednesday, the veterans' group is planning to visit the Lincoln Memorial, which the Obama Administration has also vowed to close to visitors. I have regularly visited this memorial at one or two in the morning. At those hours, it is a peaceful and reflective place. It is an open space. There is no access that needs to be blocked. It is only by a conscious decision, and a great deal of work, that access would be blocked.

This is nothing more than a petulant response by the Obama Administration to the government shutdown. Over the next week, more than 500 WWII veterans are expected in DC to visit the memorial dedicated to their sacrifice. If the Park Police again try to erect barricades to this public space, it will be another sign that the Obama Administration has made an affirmative decision to separate itself from the American public.

Obama chose this pass. He ought to be made to own it."
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government ... -Memorials" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[kalm]

It just took me an hour to get from Fairfax to Manassas (23 miles). Even a shutdown can't save this traffic.

But seriously, I'm sorry that this is occurring to you and many others I know. Yes, I do lean left but I try my best to appreciate both sides. However, I purely put the blame on the GOP (specifically the Tea Party) for this shutdown. According to most (all?) polls, it seems like the majority of Americans share the sentiment.

First point: It's absolutely the Tea Party. They've decided to hold 800,000 families hostage to cry like babies about their loss in the legislative process (Obamacare). Hey, I don't like Obamacare either, but this is the wrong way to try to roll it back. I cannot wait until the Tea Party is relegated to the scrap heap of history. Biggest. Babies. Ever.

Second point: This is a no-win situation for federal employees. If we get back pay when this is over, we get to hear more snide remarks from clueless idiots. If we don't, then it's going to be a spartan autumn and a sparse Christmas for our children. Savings will be used to pay bills, and the impact to the economy will be tangible. $300M per day in salary is being pulled from the economy.

Third point: On DC traffic, perhaps having 300,000 people not in their offices and using their individual cars while unemployed instead of mass transit causes more of a mess.

Hang in there man.

I'm not necessarily opposed to govt. shut down. But if you're gonna do it, at least have the stones to go all the way. Shut it ALL down, including the park service, air traffic controllers, TSA, etc. No planes allowed in the air. No congressional pay, no perks, the gyms closed (if not already)...the whole nine yards. Make those dumb shits stay in Washington without any perks, working, and not go back to their districts and/or families until it gets worked out.

Pussies.

[Skjellyfetti]

[SDHornet]

First point: It's absolutely the Tea Party. They've decided to hold 800,000 families hostage to cry like babies about their loss in the legislative process (Obamacare). Hey, I don't like Obamacare either, but this is the wrong way to try to roll it back. I cannot wait until the Tea Party is relegated to the scrap heap of history. Biggest. Babies. Ever.

What they're doing is part of the legislative process. There is absolutely nothing inherently "wrong" with it.

Otherwise, it amazes me that you place no blame on the Democrats. Yes, the House Republicans are saying they are willing to see government "shut down" rather than put forth a continuing resolution without anything related to impeding the Affordable Care Act in it. But the Senate Republicans and the President are just as certainly saying they are willing to see government "shut down" if they don't get THEIR way. Additionally, it is clear that the Republicans have been willing to try to adjust and compromise a little on the point while the Democrats have adopted a strict "We will not negotiate" posture.

Really. Why can't the Democrats agree to fund the things both sides agree on funding? Like I posted a video about the Republicans putting forth action to fund NIH. Both sides agree on funding that. Why can't the Democrats just agree to fund it?

If you can both agree on what to fund why not do it? The Republicans are willing to do that. The Democrats are not.

Think about it. Go back to the beginning. There was agreement on funding everything but the Affordable Care Act. It was the Democrat side that said, "If you will not also fund the thing we DON'T agree on we will not agree to fund ANY of it."

Blaming the Republicans for the Democrats refusing to sign off on funding what everybody agrees to is insane. But it's widespread.

I finally read a JSO post...and actually agree with what he has to say.

I'll add that since the Repubs...well Tea Party I guess...have since retreated on the stance of no ACA funding at all to a more reasonable stance of delaying the individual mandate for a year and requiring Congress to get its coverage by the ACA that they have clearly put the ball in the Senates court. Why is a delay in the individual mandate a reasonable stance? Because Obama has granted numerous exemptions for unions and allowed big business to sit out the first year. I'm on board with the point of "its only fair that the American people receive the same treatment" talking point. Also having Congress exempting itself from participating in the ACA is all anyone needs to know about the clusterfuck that it is.

Finally as far as people being pissed about the Tea Party raising hell, like it or not this is exactly what they were elected to do. Funny seeing posters who complain about the status quo of the establishment politicians up in arms when a group of nonconformists enter the fray and shake things up. Oh you though a group of common sense and well rounded folks would lead the charge to changes on the Hill? Keep dreaming.

[Baldy]

What they're doing is part of the legislative process. There is absolutely nothing inherently "wrong" with it.

Otherwise, it amazes me that you place no blame on the Democrats. Yes, the House Republicans are saying they are willing to see government "shut down" rather than put forth a continuing resolution without anything related to impeding the Affordable Care Act in it. But the Senate Republicans and the President are just as certainly saying they are willing to see government "shut down" if they don't get THEIR way. Additionally, it is clear that the Republicans have been willing to try to adjust and compromise a little on the point while the Democrats have adopted a strict "We will not negotiate" posture.

Really. Why can't the Democrats agree to fund the things both sides agree on funding? Like I posted a video about the Republicans putting forth action to fund NIH. Both sides agree on funding that. Why can't the Democrats just agree to fund it?

If you can both agree on what to fund why not do it? The Republicans are willing to do that. The Democrats are not.

Think about it. Go back to the beginning. There was agreement on funding everything but the Affordable Care Act. It was the Democrat side that said, "If you will not also fund the thing we DON'T agree on we will not agree to fund ANY of it."

Blaming the Republicans for the Democrats refusing to sign off on funding what everybody agrees to is insane. But it's widespread.

I finally read a JSO post...and actually agree with what he has to say.

I'll add that since the Repubs...well Tea Party I guess...have since retreated on the stance of no ACA funding at all to a more reasonable stance of delaying the individual mandate for a year and requiring Congress to get its coverage by the ACA that they have clearly put the ball in the Senates court. Why is a delay in the individual mandate a reasonable stance? Because Obama has granted numerous exemptions for unions and allowed big business to sit out the first year. I'm on board with the point of "its only fair that the American people receive the same treatment" talking point. Also having Congress exempting itself from participating in the ACA is all anyone needs to know about the clusterfuck that it is.

Finally as far as people being pissed about the Tea Party raising hell, like it or not this is exactly what they were elected to do. Funny seeing posters who complain about the status quo of the establishment politicians up in arms when a group of nonconformists enter the fray and shake things up. Oh you though a group of common sense and well rounded folks would lead the charge to changes on the Hill? Keep dreaming.

↑SD hit it outta the fucking park with this one. ↑

[YoUDeeMan]

What they're doing is part of the legislative process. There is absolutely nothing inherently "wrong" with it.

Otherwise, it amazes me that you place no blame on the Democrats. Yes, the House Republicans are saying they are willing to see government "shut down" rather than put forth a continuing resolution without anything related to impeding the Affordable Care Act in it. But the Senate Republicans and the President are just as certainly saying they are willing to see government "shut down" if they don't get THEIR way. Additionally, it is clear that the Republicans have been willing to try to adjust and compromise a little on the point while the Democrats have adopted a strict "We will not negotiate" posture.

Really. Why can't the Democrats agree to fund the things both sides agree on funding? Like I posted a video about the Republicans putting forth action to fund NIH. Both sides agree on funding that. Why can't the Democrats just agree to fund it?

If you can both agree on what to fund why not do it? The Republicans are willing to do that. The Democrats are not.

Think about it. Go back to the beginning. There was agreement on funding everything but the Affordable Care Act. It was the Democrat side that said, "If you will not also fund the thing we DON'T agree on we will not agree to fund ANY of it."

Blaming the Republicans for the Democrats refusing to sign off on funding what everybody agrees to is insane. But it's widespread.

I finally read a JSO post...and actually agree with what he has to say.

I'll add that since the Repubs...well Tea Party I guess...have since retreated on the stance of no ACA funding at all to a more reasonable stance of delaying the individual mandate for a year and requiring Congress to get its coverage by the ACA that they have clearly put the ball in the Senates court. Why is a delay in the individual mandate a reasonable stance? Because Obama has granted numerous exemptions for unions and allowed big business to sit out the first year. I'm on board with the point of "its only fair that the American people receive the same treatment" talking point. Also having Congress exempting itself from participating in the ACA is all anyone needs to know about the clusterfuck that it is.

Finally as far as people being pissed about the Tea Party raising hell, like it or not this is exactly what they were elected to do. Funny seeing posters who complain about the status quo of the establishment politicians up in arms when a group of nonconformists enter the fray and shake things up. Oh you though a group of common sense and well rounded folks would lead the charge to changes on the Hill? Keep dreaming.

Excellent posts by JSO and SDHornet!

[YoUDeeMan]

Perspective: shutting down the gubmint is better than popping a cap into someone when feeling disrespected.

[kalm]

What they're doing is part of the legislative process. There is absolutely nothing inherently "wrong" with it.

Otherwise, it amazes me that you place no blame on the Democrats. Yes, the House Republicans are saying they are willing to see government "shut down" rather than put forth a continuing resolution without anything related to impeding the Affordable Care Act in it. But the Senate Republicans and the President are just as certainly saying they are willing to see government "shut down" if they don't get THEIR way. Additionally, it is clear that the Republicans have been willing to try to adjust and compromise a little on the point while the Democrats have adopted a strict "We will not negotiate" posture.

Really. Why can't the Democrats agree to fund the things both sides agree on funding? Like I posted a video about the Republicans putting forth action to fund NIH. Both sides agree on funding that. Why can't the Democrats just agree to fund it?

If you can both agree on what to fund why not do it? The Republicans are willing to do that. The Democrats are not.

Think about it. Go back to the beginning. There was agreement on funding everything but the Affordable Care Act. It was the Democrat side that said, "If you will not also fund the thing we DON'T agree on we will not agree to fund ANY of it."

Blaming the Republicans for the Democrats refusing to sign off on funding what everybody agrees to is insane. But it's widespread.

I finally read a JSO post...and actually agree with what he has to say.

I'll add that since the Repubs...well Tea Party I guess...have since retreated on the stance of no ACA funding at all to a more reasonable stance of delaying the individual mandate for a year and requiring Congress to get its coverage by the ACA that they have clearly put the ball in the Senates court. Why is a delay in the individual mandate a reasonable stance? Because Obama has granted numerous exemptions for unions and allowed big business to sit out the first year. I'm on board with the point of "its only fair that the American people receive the same treatment" talking point. Also having Congress exempting itself from participating in the ACA is all anyone needs to know about the clusterfuck that it is.

Finally as far as people being pissed about the Tea Party raising hell, like it or not this is exactly what they were elected to do. Funny seeing posters who complain about the status quo of the establishment politicians up in arms when a group of nonconformists enter the fray and shake things up. Oh you though a group of common sense and well rounded folks would lead the charge to changes on the Hill? Keep dreaming.

FTR, I actually rooted for the tea party in the other thread. Something needs to happen to break up the establishment. I like non-conformity.

As for making concessions, do you really expect Obama to cave on his hallmark piece of legislation? No Republican would budge in a similar situation. Cripes, you'd think the "party of business" should be happy he already conceded and delayed the business mandate. Now they're using that against him and have suddenly become the champion of the "people".

Got to hand it to the conks, they're much better at playing the game.

[Ibanez]

First point: It's absolutely the Tea Party. They've decided to hold 800,000 families hostage to cry like babies about their loss in the legislative process (Obamacare). Hey, I don't like Obamacare either, but this is the wrong way to try to roll it back. I cannot wait until the Tea Party is relegated to the scrap heap of history. Biggest. Babies. Ever.

What they're doing is part of the legislative process. There is absolutely nothing inherently "wrong" with it.

Otherwise, it amazes me that you place no blame on the Democrats. Yes, the House Republicans are saying they are willing to see government "shut down" rather than put forth a continuing resolution without anything related to impeding the Affordable Care Act in it. But the Senate Republicans and the President are just as certainly saying they are willing to see government "shut down" if they don't get THEIR way. Additionally, it is clear that the Republicans have been willing to try to adjust and compromise a little on the point while the Democrats have adopted a strict "We will not negotiate" posture.

Really. Why can't the Democrats agree to fund the things both sides agree on funding? Like I posted a video about the Republicans putting forth action to fund NIH. Both sides agree on funding that. Why can't the Democrats just agree to fund it?

If you can both agree on what to fund why not do it? The Republicans are willing to do that. The Democrats are not.

Think about it. Go back to the beginning. There was agreement on funding everything but the Affordable Care Act. It was the Democrat side that said, "If you will not also fund the thing we DON'T agree on we will not agree to fund ANY of it."

Blaming the Republicans for the Democrats refusing to sign off on funding what everybody agrees to is insane. But it's widespread.

Regardless of your feelings on the ACA, you have to admit that there was zero chance of anything getting approved when the GOP attached their ACA amendments. You have to admit it was purely political and symbolic. The Republicans fucked this up. The Moderate Republicans need to retake their party.