Layoff Thread:

[AZGrizFan]

Excellent use of "your" and "you're".

Thank you . I did though have to lift "seldom" out of a thesaurus.

Not surprising.

[SDHornet]

It's massive and I don't think employers should be required to cover it. BUT...what happens if enough employers don't because they can't afford it, and enough people who used to have employer covered healthcare can no longer afford private insurance?

Insurance is simply spreading the risk. Eliminate for-profit insurance, make big pharma have to price their drugs competitively on an open market, and watch the cost of basic healthcare go down.

I run a company of 102 people. 71 of them are on the company healthcare plan (the rest are mostly covered by their spouse's plan, usually military). Our MONTHLY bill for "basic" coverage is $45,101. Now, add in the bills for the dental and vision plans and you're well over $50,000 per month to cover 71 people. And that's just the hard, easily identifiable costs. There are a few provisions of the healthcare law that are rather "interesting", to say the least, and that will have soft dollar costs not so easily defined:

* Employers are now required to report the value of employees' healthcare benefits on W-2's. Gee, wonder why that is? Think maybe the'll begin taxing that benefit as income at some point?
* HSA's have had severe restrictions put on them regarding what consumers can purchase through their HSA plan, including the elimination of most over the counter medication.
* The penalty for making non-qualified purchases with an HSA increases to 20%.
* Businesses now have to complete a 1099 form for every BTB transaction of $600 or more.
* Beginning in 2013, the medical expense deduction floor is raised from 7.5% of AGI to 10%.
* The medicare payroll tax on wages > $250,000 increases by .9%, and 3.8% on investment income.
* Cafeteria FSA contributions will now be limited to $2,500

The list goes on and on, but you get my point. This albatross of a bill will bankrupt many, many companies. Liberals can flamespray the Papa John's founder all they want, but they're missing the greater point. As usual.

The company I work for started offering an HSA in conjunction with a low premium-high deductible plan (actually I don't think you can even have an HSA without opting into the LPHD plan). We'll see how this thing goes. As someone who maybe...maybe sees a doctor once a year (our vision and dental insurance didn't change so I am not taking that into account) this means all that money I normally throw away on monthly premiums will now go "tax free" into the HSA and sit there until I need it sometime in the future.

[AZGrizFan]

I run a company of 102 people. 71 of them are on the company healthcare plan (the rest are mostly covered by their spouse's plan, usually military). Our MONTHLY bill for "basic" coverage is $45,101. Now, add in the bills for the dental and vision plans and you're well over $50,000 per month to cover 71 people. And that's just the hard, easily identifiable costs. There are a few provisions of the healthcare law that are rather "interesting", to say the least, and that will have soft dollar costs not so easily defined:

* Employers are now required to report the value of employees' healthcare benefits on W-2's. Gee, wonder why that is? Think maybe the'll begin taxing that benefit as income at some point?
* HSA's have had severe restrictions put on them regarding what consumers can purchase through their HSA plan, including the elimination of most over the counter medication.
* The penalty for making non-qualified purchases with an HSA increases to 20%.
* Businesses now have to complete a 1099 form for every BTB transaction of $600 or more.
* Beginning in 2013, the medical expense deduction floor is raised from 7.5% of AGI to 10%.
* The medicare payroll tax on wages > $250,000 increases by .9%, and 3.8% on investment income.
* Cafeteria FSA contributions will now be limited to $2,500

The list goes on and on, but you get my point. This albatross of a bill will bankrupt many, many companies. Liberals can flamespray the Papa John's founder all they want, but they're missing the greater point. As usual.

The company I work for started offering an HSA in conjunction with a low premium-high deductible plan (actually I don't think you can even have an HSA without opting into the LPHD plan). We'll see how this thing goes. As someone who maybe...maybe sees a doctor once a year (our vision and dental insurance didn't change so I am not taking that into account) this means all that money I normally throw away on monthly premiums will now go "tax free" into the HSA and sit there until I need it sometime in the future.

Don't HSA accounts have to be "zero'ed out" every year-end?

[D1B]

Thank you . I did though have to lift "seldom" out of a thesaurus.

Not surprising.

Go fuck you're self.

[kalm]

Destroy healthcare? GREAT!! That's what we need.

Like the government employee racket, the healthcare industry in America is an exploitative, bloated system that needed a wake up call, and they got it.

The free ride is over for most healthcare professionals - one of the few labor groups lazier and less productive and more overpaid than government workers.

So, we're going to "destroy healthcare", those "lazy, less productive and more overpaid than government" workers, and in the process cause hundreds of thousands of additional layoffs, increased costs and bankruptcy for thousands of small businesses, cease any chance at job creation and a corresponding decline in unemployment, and that's satisfactory collateral damage to you?

OTOH, you can still sit on your high horse and boycot Dennys and Papa Johns.

Depends on how you define "small business".

The point YOUR missing is that employers wouldn't have to be responsible for health insurance if we eliminated the 100's of billions in wasted $'s that is inefficient for-profit insurance and forced the drug companies and other medical manufacturers to actually compete on the open market

Fact: It's worked everywhere else for basic healthcare with better outcomes and lower costs.

[GannonFan]

The company I work for started offering an HSA in conjunction with a low premium-high deductible plan (actually I don't think you can even have an HSA without opting into the LPHD plan). We'll see how this thing goes. As someone who maybe...maybe sees a doctor once a year (our vision and dental insurance didn't change so I am not taking that into account) this means all that money I normally throw away on monthly premiums will now go "tax free" into the HSA and sit there until I need it sometime in the future.

Don't HSA accounts have to be "zero'ed out" every year-end?

Yes they do. Just like the dependent care spending accounts.

[UNI88]

Don't HSA accounts have to be "zero'ed out" every year-end?

Yes they do. Just like the dependent care spending accounts.

No they don't. Flexible Spending Accounts need to be "zero'ed out" but HSA's can be carried over.

[DSUrocks07]

Possibly deserves it's own thread but related:

http://www.wboc.com/story/20117195/host ... operations

(AP)- Hostess Brands Inc. says it's going out of business after striking workers across the country crippled its ability to make its Twinkies, Ding Dongs, Wonder Bread and other snacks.

The company had warned employees that it would file a motion with U.S. Bankruptcy Court Friday seeking permission to shutter its operations and sell assets if plants didn't resume normal operations by a Thursday evening deadline.

The closing would mean the loss of about 18,500 jobs.

"Many people have worked incredibly long and hard to keep this from happening, but now Hostess Brands has no other alternative than to begin the process of winding down and preparing for the sale of our iconic brands," CEO Gregory Rayburn said in a letter to employees posted on the company website.

He added that all employees will eventually lose their jobs, "some sooner than others."

"Unfortunately, because we are in bankruptcy, there are severe limits on the assistance the (company) can offer you at this time," Rayburn wrote.

Hostess, based in Irving, Texas, suspended bakery operations at its 33 factories and said its stores will remain open for several days to sell already packaged products. The privately held company filed for Chapter 11 protection in January, its second trip through bankruptcy court in less than a decade.

Thousands of members of the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union went on strike last week after rejecting in September a contract offer that slashed wages and benefits. Hostess said Friday the company is unprofitable "under its current cost structure, much of which is determined by union wages and pension costs."

A union representative did not immediately return a call from The Associated Press seeking comment on the company's announcement.

"Unions are a staple of American industry, they're only there to protect the poor workers."

[GannonFan]

Yes they do. Just like the dependent care spending accounts.

No they don't. Flexible Spending Accounts need to be "zero'ed out" but HSA's can be carried over.

Correct - my bad for not noticing the difference between HSA's and FSA's (which can also be for medical purposes).

[Gil Dobie]

Better buy your Twinkies while you can, Hostess is in trouble.

[SDHornet]

The company I work for started offering an HSA in conjunction with a low premium-high deductible plan (actually I don't think you can even have an HSA without opting into the LPHD plan). We'll see how this thing goes. As someone who maybe...maybe sees a doctor once a year (our vision and dental insurance didn't change so I am not taking that into account) this means all that money I normally throw away on monthly premiums will now go "tax free" into the HSA and sit there until I need it sometime in the future.

Don't HSA accounts have to be "zero'ed out" every year-end?

Nope, it rolls over. Another reason why I signed up for it. On top of the HSA, you can opt into a LFSA which is a use it or lose it system like the traditional FSA. (Actually I don't think LFSA and FSA are different so I don't know why the name changed.)

[kalm]

Possibly deserves it's own thread but related:

http://www.wboc.com/story/20117195/host ... operations

(AP)- Hostess Brands Inc. says it's going out of business after striking workers across the country crippled its ability to make its Twinkies, Ding Dongs, Wonder Bread and other snacks.

The company had warned employees that it would file a motion with U.S. Bankruptcy Court Friday seeking permission to shutter its operations and sell assets if plants didn't resume normal operations by a Thursday evening deadline.

The closing would mean the loss of about 18,500 jobs.

"Many people have worked incredibly long and hard to keep this from happening, but now Hostess Brands has no other alternative than to begin the process of winding down and preparing for the sale of our iconic brands," CEO Gregory Rayburn said in a letter to employees posted on the company website.

He added that all employees will eventually lose their jobs, "some sooner than others."

"Unfortunately, because we are in bankruptcy, there are severe limits on the assistance the (company) can offer you at this time," Rayburn wrote.

Hostess, based in Irving, Texas, suspended bakery operations at its 33 factories and said its stores will remain open for several days to sell already packaged products. The privately held company filed for Chapter 11 protection in January, its second trip through bankruptcy court in less than a decade.

Thousands of members of the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union went on strike last week after rejecting in September a contract offer that slashed wages and benefits. Hostess said Friday the company is unprofitable "under its current cost structure, much of which is determined by union wages and pension costs."

A union representative did not immediately return a call from The Associated Press seeking comment on the company's announcement.

"Unions are a staple of American industry, they're only there to protect the poor workers."

It all started here...

[89Hen]

Thousands of members of the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union

BTW, probably one of the strangest conglomerations around. I was actually at a red light in front of the HQ for this one just this week and was laughing at the sign in front of the building. It's just around the corner from my daughter's school. It was actually more funny because it was in the former name of the org:

Bakery, Confectionery, and Tobacco Workers International Union

[AZGrizFan]

Not surprising.

Go fuck you're self.

[AZGrizFan]

So, we're going to "destroy healthcare", those "lazy, less productive and more overpaid than government" workers, and in the process cause hundreds of thousands of additional layoffs, increased costs and bankruptcy for thousands of small businesses, cease any chance at job creation and a corresponding decline in unemployment, and that's satisfactory collateral damage to you?

OTOH, you can still sit on your high horse and boycot Dennys and Papa Johns.

Depends on how you define "small business".

The point YOUR missing is that employers wouldn't have to be responsible for health insurance if we eliminated the 100's of billions in wasted $'s that is inefficient for-profit insurance and forced the drug companies and other medical manufacturers to actually compete on the open market

Fact: It's worked everywhere else for basic healthcare with better outcomes and lower costs.

kalm, sometime when you have a minute, check on the R&D costs of developing and bringing a new drug to market. If we're going to "force" drug companies to compete immediately on the open market, there will NEVER be another drug developed. R&D would cease. Is that what YOUR saying?

Oh, and let me get this straight: instead of the 100's of billions wasted through for-profit insurance companies, you'd rather hand it over to the U.S. government and waste 1,000's of billions?

[UNI88]

Depends on how you define "small business".

The point YOUR missing is that employers wouldn't have to be responsible for health insurance if we eliminated the 100's of billions in wasted $'s that is inefficient for-profit insurance and forced the drug companies and other medical manufacturers to actually compete on the open market

Fact: It's worked everywhere else for basic healthcare with better outcomes and lower costs.

kalm, sometime when you have a minute, check on the R&D costs of developing and bringing a new drug to market. If we're going to "force" drug companies to compete immediately on the open market, there will NEVER be another drug developed. R&D would cease. Is that what YOUR saying?

Oh, and let me get this straight: instead of the 100's of billions wasted through for-profit insurance companies, you'd rather hand it over to the U.S. government and waste 1,000's of billions?

But, but ... why does it work in other countries? Why are drugs more expensive here? Is the U.S. market essentially underwriting the R&D that the rest of the world benefits from?

[AZGrizFan]

kalm, sometime when you have a minute, check on the R&D costs of developing and bringing a new drug to market. If we're going to "force" drug companies to compete immediately on the open market, there will NEVER be another drug developed. R&D would cease. Is that what YOUR saying?

Oh, and let me get this straight: instead of the 100's of billions wasted through for-profit insurance companies, you'd rather hand it over to the U.S. government and waste 1,000's of billions?

But, but ... why does it work in other countries? Why are drugs more expensive here? Is the U.S. market essentially underwriting the R&D that the rest of the world benefits from?

They have longer lifespans because they don't even have to worry about defending themselves. The drug thingy is just another example of them sucking off the American teet and dragging us to the depths in the process.

FTW.

[houndawg]

Depends on how you define "small business".

The point YOUR missing is that employers wouldn't have to be responsible for health insurance if we eliminated the 100's of billions in wasted $'s that is inefficient for-profit insurance and forced the drug companies and other medical manufacturers to actually compete on the open market

Fact: It's worked everywhere else for basic healthcare with better outcomes and lower costs.

kalm, sometime when you have a minute, check on the R&D costs of developing and bringing a new drug to market. If we're going to "force" drug companies to compete immediately on the open market, there will NEVER be another drug developed. R&D would cease. Is that what YOUR saying?

Oh, and let me get this straight: instead of the 100's of billions wasted through for-profit insurance companies, you'd rather hand it over to the U.S. government and waste 1,000's of billions?

Hard to tell if you don't get it or can't get it. Companies exist for one reason: profit. What I don't want is a system where my health is in direct competition with an insurance company's profit.


Single payer.

[Grizalltheway]

Depends on how you define "small business".

The point YOUR missing is that employers wouldn't have to be responsible for health insurance if we eliminated the 100's of billions in wasted $'s that is inefficient for-profit insurance and forced the drug companies and other medical manufacturers to actually compete on the open market

Fact: It's worked everywhere else for basic healthcare with better outcomes and lower costs.

kalm, sometime when you have a minute, check on the R&D costs of developing and bringing a new drug to market. If we're going to "force" drug companies to compete immediately on the open market, there will NEVER be another drug developed. R&D would cease. Is that what YOUR saying?

Oh, and let me get this straight: instead of the 100's of billions wasted through for-profit insurance companies, you'd rather hand it over to the U.S. government and waste 1,000's of billions?

Maybe we should just ban them from advertising on television? That would save a few bucks here and there, I'm sure.

[Grizalltheway]

But, but ... why does it work in other countries? Why are drugs more expensive here? Is the U.S. market essentially underwriting the R&D that the rest of the world benefits from?

They have longer lifespans because they don't even have to worry about defending themselves. The drug thingy is just another example of them sucking off the American teet and dragging us to the depths in the process.

FTW.

You're so full of shit, it's not even funny. Okay, it kinda is.

[Baldy]

kalm, sometime when you have a minute, check on the R&D costs of developing and bringing a new drug to market. If we're going to "force" drug companies to compete immediately on the open market, there will NEVER be another drug developed. R&D would cease. Is that what YOUR saying?

Oh, and let me get this straight: instead of the 100's of billions wasted through for-profit insurance companies, you'd rather hand it over to the U.S. government and waste 1,000's of billions?

Hard to tell if you don't get it or can't get it. Companies exist for one reason: profit. What I don't want is a system where my health is in direct competition with an insurance company's profit.


Single payer.

But you're in favor of a system where your health care decisions will be made on the whims of a government bureaucrat?
Nice.

[AZGrizFan]

kalm, sometime when you have a minute, check on the R&D costs of developing and bringing a new drug to market. If we're going to "force" drug companies to compete immediately on the open market, there will NEVER be another drug developed. R&D would cease. Is that what YOUR saying?

Oh, and let me get this straight: instead of the 100's of billions wasted through for-profit insurance companies, you'd rather hand it over to the U.S. government and waste 1,000's of billions?

Hard to tell if you don't get it or can't get it. Companies exist for one reason: profit. What I don't want is a system where my health is in direct competition with an insurance company's profit.


Single payer.

Hard to tell if YOU don't get it or CAN'T get it. Putting ANYTHING in the hands of the government is a recipe for disaster. Period. End of story. Game over.

I mean, seriously. Show me ONE thing the government does well and efficiently and at a lower cost than could be provided by a private company (making a profit, I might add).

[Grizalltheway]

Hard to tell if you don't get it or can't get it. Companies exist for one reason: profit. What I don't want is a system where my health is in direct competition with an insurance company's profit.


Single payer.

Hard to tell if YOU don't get it or CAN'T get it. Putting ANYTHING in the hands of the government is a recipe for disaster. Period. End of story. Game over.

I mean, seriously. Show me ONE thing the government does well and efficiently and at a lower cost than could be provided by a private company (making a profit, I might add).

Booze prices in Washington jumped significantly after they scrapped the state-run system and went to a private one.

[D1B]

Hard to tell if you don't get it or can't get it. Companies exist for one reason: profit. What I don't want is a system where my health is in direct competition with an insurance company's profit.


Single payer.

But you're in favor of a system where your health care decisions will be made on the whims of a government bureaucrat?
Nice.

You're a fucking liar, Baldy. Just glad no one bought this RNC staple line of bullshit.

[AZGrizFan]

Hard to tell if YOU don't get it or CAN'T get it. Putting ANYTHING in the hands of the government is a recipe for disaster. Period. End of story. Game over.

I mean, seriously. Show me ONE thing the government does well and efficiently and at a lower cost than could be provided by a private company (making a profit, I might add).

Booze prices in Washington jumped significantly after they scrapped the state-run system and went to a private one.

A) we're talking about the FEDERAL government, not State government, Einstein
B) that's a piss-poor example, given that there IS no Federal equivalent

Swing and a miss. Try again.