Breaking: Active Shooter HS Broward Co, FL

[andy7171]

Back when I was in high school, we had an outdoor smoking section on campus and not one single shooting. We need to bring back smoking sections so they can cool off before doing something stupid.

I was elected SGA President. A smoking section was one of my planks. I only ran because the existing class president laughed at me when I told her I could win. Fuck her. I won in a landslide. Freshman and Sophomores were all on board, especially the hot ones. They had the task of handing out lollipops, Because you know, "Want some Candy? Vote for Andy!" I quit three days before football camp opened up in August. She took over, but didn't have the satifaction of being elected.

[GannonFan]

That can be one step.
How about the ability of law enforcement to stop someone like this that exhibited multiple warning signs beforehand?

How does a kid with this track record legally pass a background check to buy a gun?

Why do we allow AR-15's to be purchased and used for whatever reasons people want, and guns that can fire off more rounds more quickly as well?

Do we root for this never to happen again or do we root for it to happen everyday? And for it to be schools where politicians kids go or NRA executives kids go?

I could double this list easily....This is the culture that this country has evolved into. It didn't happen overnight. It won't change quickly, unless you try to board a plane with a shoebomb, then TSA will make everyone take off their shoes. That was an easy solution, right?

Why don't we have mass shootings at airports or sports stadiums? During jury duty, I had to do the same process as the airport. Is convenience more important than safety?

Schools need to have metal detectors that everyone needs to pass through to enter a school, and every school needs to have controlled access to the school (i.e. locked doors) so that no one bypasses the metal detectors. Having an armed guard at every school would be useful, but maybe you only need them at the time when kids are coming and going to school, or at least have the local police be there at these times. And maybe we should only allow clear backpacks into school (most schools around me already prohibit backpacks to be worn in the school during the day - you come to school with one and you leave it in your locker).

You never hear of school shootings, in the schools, in many of the inner-city or troubled neighborhoods where gun violence is pretty prevalent (I'm thinking Chester around where I live) - maybe the reason they don't is that kids have to pass through metal detectors everyday.

[89Hen]

To be honest I'm surprised this doesn't happen daily

Not daily, but I've said this many times.

[BDKJMU]

We used to institutionalize our mentally ill, now we let them roam the steets...

[GannonFan]

There are going to be guns, lots of guns, in America forever. Banning guns isn't going to go anywhere for the next century at least. This kid would've been just as effective at murder with handguns as he would've been with an AR-15, so focusing on the fact the gun sounds dangerous doesn't do anything.

We're going to have mentally ill people - we can't institutionalize people on the scale that was done decades ago. It's a price of freedom - even the mentally unstable get to be free.

We can try to do better with background checks - make them universal (any gun sale gets them) and step up the penalties ($$ and even jail time) for people not doing the checks and step up the penalties ($$ and even jail time) for people or organizations that don't report information to the background checks that should be to prevent guys like this whacko being able to get a gun (and just like how the Army or Air Force, I forget which, didn't update the background database when they dishonorably discharged that guy who went on to get a gun he shouldn't have had). You can always get a gun illegally, but getting a gun legally is always easier and cheaper and faster and we're not doing what we should be doing to make that system robust enough to deny guns to people like the kid who just did this shooting in Florida.

And like I said, we know schools are vulnerable, so let's make them more secure. Metal detectors for all entrances, secured doors throughout the building, an armed guard in every school, or at least during the time kids are coming and going. Secure the grounds. And this doesn't need to be driven from the national level, this is something that communities can do today right where they live.

[89Hen]

How about the ability of law enforcement to stop someone like this that exhibited multiple warning signs beforehand?

How does a kid with this track record legally pass a background check to buy a gun?

I was thinking about this as I listened to the reports today. It's easier said than done. I get the whole "if you see something, say something" but it's a bit of a slippery slope and really hard to draw a line in the sand. Nobody has a criminal record until you have one. There are plenty of people who have criminal records who have no history of violence. There are plenty of people who are very weird that would never be violent. I'm sure every one of us has met somebody who if they did something like this, you'd say "I'm really not that surprised." yes?

[bluehenbillk]

How about the ability of law enforcement to stop someone like this that exhibited multiple warning signs beforehand?

How does a kid with this track record legally pass a background check to buy a gun?

I was thinking about this as I listened to the reports today. It's easier said than done. I get the whole "if you see something, say something" but it's a bit of a slippery slope and really hard to draw a line in the sand. Nobody has a criminal record until you have one. There are plenty of people who have criminal records who have no history of violence. There are plenty of people who are very weird that would never be violent. I'm sure every one of us has met somebody who if they did something like this, you'd say "I'm really not that surprised." yes?

The FBI supposedly flagged this guy twice in the past year. The ex-military guy shoots people they close up a loophole. Here they'll do squat.

Gannon brought up a good point - it's not the inner city schools that have metal detectors & police or security guards where this happens - maybe that's what our school tax $$ should go for....

[GannonFan]

How about the ability of law enforcement to stop someone like this that exhibited multiple warning signs beforehand?

How does a kid with this track record legally pass a background check to buy a gun?

I was thinking about this as I listened to the reports today. It's easier said than done. I get the whole "if you see something, say something" but it's a bit of a slippery slope and really hard to draw a line in the sand. Nobody has a criminal record until you have one. There are plenty of people who have criminal records who have no history of violence. There are plenty of people who are very weird that would never be violent. I'm sure every one of us has met somebody who if they did something like this, you'd say "I'm really not that surprised." yes?

But this kid was even more than just "weird" - he told multiple people he was going to shoot up the school, he commented online on a YouTube post that he was going to be a professional school shooter (and the FBI was even alerted to it). He had to be prevented from bringing a backpack to school because he had gun casings. He was ultimately expelled from this very school, after multiple events, that he shot up. He was an avid weapons collector and the kids on the ROTC with him (yeah, he was even getting training) said he was straight up crazy. If there was ever going to be a person you would step over the line and tell authorities that something needs to be done about a person then it would have been this kid.

I'm reading now in some places that he like to torture rats by shooting them with a bb-gun. He shot actual guns at a neighbors chicken. Police were called to his residence on numerous occasions, and his social media posts are almost entirely about weapons and using them. If we can't flag and deal with this person, who exhibited some of the worst and most obvious behavior and was clearly a person about to explode, then we need to rethink everything.

[AZGrizFan]

For what every school pays one of it’s overpaid, fat vice-principals it could hire two fulltime armed security guards. It’s really not that complicated. They are all top-heavy on administration and short on security.

Or better yet, take away 2 coaching positions and fill them with security guards instead.

From what I understand the assistant football coach was a security guard there. He died shielding kids from getting hit yesterday in a hallway. Real bad timing on that analogy...

Was he trying to stop bullets with common sense?

[AZGrizFan]

I was thinking about this as I listened to the reports today. It's easier said than done. I get the whole "if you see something, say something" but it's a bit of a slippery slope and really hard to draw a line in the sand. Nobody has a criminal record until you have one. There are plenty of people who have criminal records who have no history of violence. There are plenty of people who are very weird that would never be violent. I'm sure every one of us has met somebody who if they did something like this, you'd say "I'm really not that surprised." yes?

But this kid was even more than just "weird" - he told multiple people he was going to shoot up the school, he commented online on a YouTube post that he was going to be a professional school shooter (and the FBI was even alerted to it). He had to be prevented from bringing a backpack to school because he had gun casings. He was ultimately expelled from this very school, after multiple events, that he shot up. He was an avid weapons collector and the kids on the ROTC with him (yeah, he was even getting training) said he was straight up crazy. If there was ever going to be a person you would step over the line and tell authorities that something needs to be done about a person then it would have been this kid.

They're too busy colluding with Obama and the CIA to get Russia connected to Trump to worry about some piddly-ass school shooting...

[bluehenbillk]

They're too busy colluding with Obama and the CIA to get Russia connected to Trump to worry about some piddly-ass school shooting...

Good point

[AZGrizFan]

Why don't we have mass shootings at airports or sports stadiums? During jury duty, I had to do the same process as the airport. Is convenience more important than safety?

Same reason we don't have mass shootings at the White House, Senate Building, etc., etc. All of them have metal detectors and visible, armed security guards. It's not that complicated. And in fact, if I were a parent of school-aged children, I'd be in front of the school board DEMANDING it at this very moment. This IS preventable, without worrying about the fucksticks in Congress having to get off their dead asses, stop focusing on Russia and start focusing on the problems in America....that ain't EVER gonna happen so start applying some goddamned common sense to the situation. Take the bond money and stop building pretty parking lots and start building secure facilities. Fire some useless administrators and hire some fucking trained security people. Get teachers who want to be qualified and let them carry. THEN ADVERTISE THAT THERE ARE MULTIPLE ARMED INDIVIDUALS ON THE CAMPUS SO ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK instead of bragging that it's a "gun free (translation: target rich) environment.

[GannonFan]

But this kid was even more than just "weird" - he told multiple people he was going to shoot up the school, he commented online on a YouTube post that he was going to be a professional school shooter (and the FBI was even alerted to it). He had to be prevented from bringing a backpack to school because he had gun casings. He was ultimately expelled from this very school, after multiple events, that he shot up. He was an avid weapons collector and the kids on the ROTC with him (yeah, he was even getting training) said he was straight up crazy. If there was ever going to be a person you would step over the line and tell authorities that something needs to be done about a person then it would have been this kid.

They're too busy colluding with Obama and the CIA to get Russia connected to Trump to worry about some piddly-ass school shooting...

Gotta say, the FBI sounds terrible in this. They spoke with a person who reported these comments for 20 minutes, but then apparently could not find a way to clearly identify the kid who said this comment. How does the FBI not be capable of tracking this kid down after he made such a public, online admission of future intent? And yes, the FBI isn't covered in any glory still being 2 years out from when Russia was reportedly colluding with Trump and not having a shred of evidence to prove it. No doubt, the FBI is not having a great day.

[AZGrizFan]

They're too busy colluding with Obama and the CIA to get Russia connected to Trump to worry about some piddly-ass school shooting...

Gotta say, the FBI sounds terrible in this. They spoke with a person who reported these comments for 20 minutes, but then apparently could not find a way to clearly identify the kid who said this comment. How does the FBI not be capable of tracking this kid down after he made such a public, online admission of future intent? And yes, the FBI isn't covered in any glory still being 2 years out from when Russia was reportedly colluding with Trump and not having a shred of evidence to prove it. No doubt, the FBI is not having a great day.

And what was Youtube's response to getting notified of the comment?

THEY FUCKING DELETED IT. If I were a parent of that school I'd already be on the phone with attorneys suing the federal government & whoever owns Youtube.

[89Hen]

I was thinking about this as I listened to the reports today. It's easier said than done. I get the whole "if you see something, say something" but it's a bit of a slippery slope and really hard to draw a line in the sand. Nobody has a criminal record until you have one. There are plenty of people who have criminal records who have no history of violence. There are plenty of people who are very weird that would never be violent. I'm sure every one of us has met somebody who if they did something like this, you'd say "I'm really not that surprised." yes?

But this kid was even more than just "weird" - he told multiple people he was going to shoot up the school, he commented online on a YouTube post that he was going to be a professional school shooter (and the FBI was even alerted to it). He had to be prevented from bringing a backpack to school because he had gun casings. He was ultimately expelled from this very school, after multiple events, that he shot up. He was an avid weapons collector and the kids on the ROTC with him (yeah, he was even getting training) said he was straight up crazy. If there was ever going to be a person you would step over the line and tell authorities that something needs to be done about a person then it would have been this kid.

I'm reading now in some places that he like to torture rats by shooting them with a bb-gun. He shot actual guns at a neighbors chicken. Police were called to his residence on numerous occasions, and his social media posts are almost entirely about weapons and using them. If we can't flag and deal with this person, who exhibited some of the worst and most obvious behavior and was clearly a person about to explode, then we need to rethink everything.

I don't disagree, but what do you do with him? If you can't bring charges, you can't arrest him. Do you surveil him all day every day? It's not a crime to have multiple weapons, he already had them...

And where is that line? You say if ever there was a case... what about one that wasn't quite as "crazy" but maybe half as much?

[AZGrizFan]

Solution is simple: Harden the target.

[GannonFan]

But this kid was even more than just "weird" - he told multiple people he was going to shoot up the school, he commented online on a YouTube post that he was going to be a professional school shooter (and the FBI was even alerted to it). He had to be prevented from bringing a backpack to school because he had gun casings. He was ultimately expelled from this very school, after multiple events, that he shot up. He was an avid weapons collector and the kids on the ROTC with him (yeah, he was even getting training) said he was straight up crazy. If there was ever going to be a person you would step over the line and tell authorities that something needs to be done about a person then it would have been this kid.

I'm reading now in some places that he like to torture rats by shooting them with a bb-gun. He shot actual guns at a neighbors chicken. Police were called to his residence on numerous occasions, and his social media posts are almost entirely about weapons and using them. If we can't flag and deal with this person, who exhibited some of the worst and most obvious behavior and was clearly a person about to explode, then we need to rethink everything.

I don't disagree, but what do you do with him? If you can't bring charges, you can't arrest him. Do you surveil him all day every day? It's not a crime to have multiple weapons, he already had them...

And where is that line? You say if ever there was a case... what about one that wasn't quite as "crazy" but maybe half as much?

In this case, he should've been detained at some point and someone should've done a psychiatric evaluation to determine if he was safe to be free on the streets. Maybe it would've come back fine and he'd have to be released, but there were clearly enough signs to have him, at a minimum, evaluated.

You're right, though, there will be many cases of people with far less signs and warnings than this kid and there likely isn't anything we can do about them. We can secure the schools (just like we have with concerts and sporting events) so we should be doing that yesterday. Gun violence in America is, at this point, unavoidable. Gun violence in schools in America is completely something we can address.

[Gil Dobie]

Why don't we have mass shootings at airports or sports stadiums? During jury duty, I had to do the same process as the airport. Is convenience more important than safety?

Same reason we don't have mass shootings at the White House, Senate Building, etc., etc. All of them have metal detectors and visible, armed security guards. It's not that complicated. And in fact, if I were a parent of school-aged children, I'd be in front of the school board DEMANDING it at this very moment. This IS preventable, without worrying about the **** in Congress having to get off their dead asses, stop focusing on Russia and start focusing on the problems in America....that ain't EVER gonna happen so start applying some goddamned common sense to the situation. Take the bond money and stop building pretty parking lots and start building secure facilities. Fire some useless administrators and hire some **** trained security people. Get teachers who want to be qualified and let them carry. THEN ADVERTISE THAT THERE ARE MULTIPLE ARMED INDIVIDUALS ON THE CAMPUS SO ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK instead of bragging that it's a "gun free (translation: target rich) environment.

Around 2000, my daughters went to a brand new school, with a $1 million bridge connecting the 2nd floor classrooms. It was pretty.

[Ibanez]

We still aren't dealing with the underlying issue is. I'm not sure it's legal access or even the legality of gun ownership. But arming the schools sounds like treating the symptom and not the cause. That's just my two cents and I am not disagreeing with anyone here.


I truly believe we have a mental illness problem in this country. People don't want the stigma on them or their family. I get that. But it's selfish. It's reasons like that, that we had the shooting at Sandy Hook.

[GannonFan]

We still aren't dealing with the underlying issue is. I'm not sure it's legal access or even the legality of gun ownership. But arming the schools sounds like treating the symptom and not the cause. That's just my two cents and I am not disagreeing with anyone here.


I truly believe we have a mental illness problem in this country. People don't want the stigma on them or their family. I get that. But it's selfish. It's reasons like that, that we had the shooting at Sandy Hook.

Can't solve it all, and trying to treat all the mental illness in this country is going to take awhile. Put up metal detectors in the schools and work with local police to make sure schools are a priority, and get at least one armed guard in every school (especially high schools), and at least you've made schools safer and have likely limited the number of in-school shootings. Gun culture and mental illness is a far bigger issue and not something to be solved quickly, so let's at least make going to school safe.

[Ibanez]

We still aren't dealing with the underlying issue is. I'm not sure it's legal access or even the legality of gun ownership. But arming the schools sounds like treating the symptom and not the cause. That's just my two cents and I am not disagreeing with anyone here.


I truly believe we have a mental illness problem in this country. People don't want the stigma on them or their family. I get that. But it's selfish. It's reasons like that, that we had the shooting at Sandy Hook.

Can't solve it all, and trying to treat all the mental illness in this country is going to take awhile. Put up metal detectors in the schools and work with local police to make sure schools are a priority, and get at least one armed guard in every school (especially high schools), and at least you've made schools safer and have likely limited the number of in-school shootings. Gun culture and mental illness is a far bigger issue and not something to be solved quickly, so let's at least make going to school safe.

No, I agree with the stop-gap preventative measures. But we should also figure out what the hell to do in the long run. I wasn't saying to not secure our schools.

[89Hen]

In this case, he should've been detained at some point

We're really not far off from agreeing on this stuff, but on what grounds can you detain somebody? If I made a clear and finite threat against somebody that appeared credible... maybe. But can you really detain somebody because they say they are going to become famous for being a school shooter?

[Ibanez]

In this case, he should've been detained at some point

We're really not far off from agreeing on this stuff, but on what grounds can you detain somebody? If I made a clear and finite threat against somebody that appeared credible... maybe. But can you really detain somebody because they say they are going to become famous for being a school shooter?

Detain - no. Monitor/Interview - possibly. Even then - you're free to be crazy and say stupid shit. Where's the line?

[89Hen]

We're really not far off from agreeing on this stuff, but on what grounds can you detain somebody? If I made a clear and finite threat against somebody that appeared credible... maybe. But can you really detain somebody because they say they are going to become famous for being a school shooter?

Detain - no. Monitor/Interview - possibly. Even then - you're free to be crazy and say stupid shit. Where's the line?

Exactly. People are slamming the FBI for even having been told about this guy. Imagine the outrage if they "interviewed" him and he still did this. My guess is the FBI is told about thousands of people every month or year.

[BDKJMU]

They're too busy colluding with Obama and the CIA to get Russia connected to Trump to worry about some piddly-ass school shooting...

Gotta say, the FBI sounds terrible in this. They spoke with a person who reported these comments for 20 minutes, but then apparently could not find a way to clearly identify the kid who said this comment. How does the FBI not be capable of tracking this kid down after he made such a public, online admission of future intent? And yes, the FBI isn't covered in any glory still being 2 years out from when Russia was reportedly colluding with Trump and not having a shred of evidence to prove it. No doubt, the FBI is not having a great day.

Yep. FBI drops the ball yet again.
-2009 Ft Hood. The FBI in late 2008 became aware the shooter Hasan had been in contact with Anwar al-Awlaki, the ‘bin Laden of the internet’, planner of Al Qaeda terror attacks (taken out by drone strike in 2011). DCIS has also had been sent copies of alarming e-mails that Hasan had written that should have sent up all kinds of red flags, yet nothing was done before Hasan murdered 13 unarmed soldiers and wounded 30+ more.
-2015 San Bernardino: FBI knew this jihadi was already in contact with known terrorism suspects, yet did nothing before he killed 14 and wounded 20 something. Were also all kinds of red flags that others ignored because of fear of being labeled islamophobic or racist.
-2016 Orlando shooting- FBI twice opened files on Mateen before he shot up the Orlando nightclub killing 50 and wounding dozens more. Heck, the guy’s father had even called the FBI to warn them.
-Yesterday: FBI was warned about this crazy ginger. And apparently he had exhibited all kinds of warning signs as already talked about.

-2007 VA Tech: the shooter had already been declared mentally ill by a judge, yet that info wasn’t entered into NCIC so he was able to pass VA’s instant background check system to legally purchase the firearms that he used to murder 33 and wound a couple doz more.

-2017 Texas church shooting: former airman was court martialed by the Air Force for multiple counts of domestic violence, and received a bad conduct discharge, which disqualified him from owning a firearm. Yet the stupid fucks in the AF didn’t enter this nutballs info into the NCIC, so he was able to go out and legally purchase the firearms used in the massacre that killed 26..

And on and on and on....It seems like in most (granted not all) of these mass shootings either the FBI or other govt entities dropped the ball, and/or there was a failure to enter info into a database, and/or there were all kinds of warning signs which were ignored, often due to PC or not wanting to to be labeled something negative.

What we don’t need is more commissions, panels, and studies that lead to nothing. What we don’t need is more gun control laws. What we need is more competent government, more profiling, and more enforcement of gun laws already on the books...