Ruby Ridge-style standoff? Bundy says he is prepared to Die

[travelinman67]

Yawn. Heard you may visit. Would love to see you.

Still planning on a road trip...timeline is next year...but I've had an attorney create an obstacle...may delay a few months. May end it in CT...figure AZ should be living in New Haven by then.

Seriously, I may hold up at Capn's for a month or so and co-author a cookbook "Ten Recipes That Make Kale Palatable".

[CitadelGrad]

Why is it acceptable for Mexicans to illegally graze on American public services but it isn't acceptable for these cattle to graze on public lands? Shouldn't Obama provide the cattle with public housing, EBT cards and Obamaphones?

[Ibanez]

The Federal Government controls way too much land.

Is that accurate?

[HI54UNI]

The Federal Government controls way too much land.

Is that accurate?

Here's a link to a larger version. You can see that it is produced by BLM.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... l_Land.jpg

Here's another version that shows it broken down by agency/dept.

http://nationalatlas.gov/printable/imag ... lands3.pdf

[houndawg]

Early today, the grandson Ammon and about 20 other ranchers rode out onto the land (about 964 sq miles) and took back some of the cattle the feds were trying to confiscate. A handful of federal agents confronted them, but backed off when the ranchers stood their ground.

Smart move by the feds.

Adding fuel to the fire, several "militia" groups have begun showing up to support the Bundys.

Note to Hdawg...since math doesn't appear your strong suit, the $1.35/animal fee is an insignificant cost of operation. It is the principle in the initial action, and the subsequent land grab of the 1200 sq miles (total land being confiscated) grazing access under the guise of "endangered species" protection.

Take the time to read up on the Desert Tortoise Protection Center created by the feds after this fiasco began. Nothing more than another Govt money vacuum which collects taxes, fees and fines but contributes little towards its stated mission. When developments in the region shut down after 2007, the Center renewed efforts to collect grazing fees in an effort to sustain their $1m annual budget. There have been extensive "negotiations" between the Bundys and BLM...Bundys claiming they only owe $300k, BLM claiming $1m, BUT, demanding $3m for the Bundys to CONTINUE GRAZING on this same land (apparently ESA extortion, er, I mean "mitigation").

The information is out there...just open your eyes.

BTW...I've never before supported use of force to resist my govts. activity, but must agree with Alphagriz on this:The agents do not have constitutionally founded basis to use deadly force in a govt. initiated attempt to temporarily or permanently confiscate personal property to enforce an ESA order.

I would assert the armed federal agents involved in this operation are acting outside the scope of their sworn authority.

IMHO

Note to Tman... since comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong suit... your keen, (for you), observation that the $1.35/head cost is an insignificant cost of operation (and one that he hasn't paid in over 20 years) is exactly the point I was getting at, so come on up to the head of the class. What do you suppose the cost of feed was for his former competitors that had to raise or buy their feed?


If you stop at Capns next year I'll bring some triple cheeseburgers and help proofread the book.

[houndawg]

Why is it acceptable for Mexicans to illegally graze on American public services but it isn't acceptable for these cattle to graze on public lands? Shouldn't Obama provide the cattle with public housing, EBT cards and Obamaphones?

1) Illegals keep wages down for the folk that hire them with impunity. Jail these scumsuckers and the illegal problem vanishes overnight. They won't come if there ain't no work.

2) It is acceptable to graze cattle on public lands, but you have to pay your fees and graze where you're supposed to.

Don't know if your post was written before or after you took your meds, but next time try it the other way...

[CitadelGrad]

Why is it acceptable for Mexicans to illegally graze on American public services but it isn't acceptable for these cattle to graze on public lands? Shouldn't Obama provide the cattle with public housing, EBT cards and Obamaphones?

1) Illegals keep wages down for the folk that hire them with impunity. Jail these scumsuckers and the illegal problem vanishes overnight. They won't come if there ain't no work.

2) It is acceptable to graze cattle on public lands, but you have to pay your fees and graze where you're supposed to.

Don't know if your post was written before or after you took your meds, but next time try it the other way...

Yeah, you can crack down on employers of illegals, but that isn't going to happen when the Obama administration is encouraging greater illegal immigration by offering up subsidized housing food stamps, ID cards, driver licenses, healthcare and a myriad of public services, including education grants. For Mexicans thinking of jumping the border and those already here, it doesn't pay not to be an illegal alien.

The Bundy family was grazing that land long before the BLM took it over. In fact, the family was grazing that land before there was a BLM. So why does the federal government need to own 89.5% of Nevada's land area? Why does the BLM insist on assessing and collecting fees that don't even cover the cost of collecting those fees? What exactly is the BLM going to do with that land once Bundy's cattle are gone? How much will it cost to do whatever the BLM plans to do with it?

Don't even bring up the desert turtle bullshit.

[houndawg]

1) Illegals keep wages down for the folk that hire them with impunity. Jail these scumsuckers and the illegal problem vanishes overnight. They won't come if there ain't no work.

2) It is acceptable to graze cattle on public lands, but you have to pay your fees and graze where you're supposed to.

Don't know if your post was written before or after you took your meds, but next time try it the other way...

Yeah, you can crack down on employers of illegals, but that isn't going to happen when the Obama administration is encouraging greater illegal immigration by offering up subsidized housing food stamps, ID cards, driver licenses, healthcare and a myriad of public services, including education grants. For Mexicans thinking of jumping the border and those already here, it doesn't pay not to be an illegal alien.

The Bundy family was grazing that land long before the BLM took it over. In fact, the family was grazing that land before there was a BLM. So why does the federal government need to own 89.5% of Nevada's land area? Why does the BLM insist on assessing and collecting fees that don't even cover the cost of collecting those fees? What exactly is the BLM going to do with that land once Bundy's cattle are gone? How much will it cost to do whatever the BLM plans to do with it?

Don't even bring up the desert turtle bullshit.

Illegals pay taxes every time they purchase something in the US. This is simply a case of wanting it both ways. Everybody wants their sales tax revenue, business loves illegals because they don't have to worry about paying a living wage or providing benefits. What's not to like when everybody who matters is benefitting?

Your other points are irrelevant. If they weren't there would be more than two rugged individuals in Nevada whining about the big bad guvmint taking away their subsidy.

This dipshit has had a free ride for decades and was too stupid to evolve his business practices to where he doesn't need government handouts, but he didn't do it and soon he will be gone. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Why is it acceptable for Mexicans to illegally graze on American public services but it isn't acceptable for these cattle to graze on public lands? Shouldn't Obama provide the cattle with public housing, EBT cards and Obamaphones?

Great point!

[Chizzang]

Why is it acceptable for Mexicans to illegally graze on American public services but it isn't acceptable for these cattle to graze on public lands? Shouldn't Obama provide the cattle with public housing, EBT cards and Obamaphones?

Great point!

I knew this whole thing was Obama's fault..!!!

[houndawg]

Why is it acceptable for Mexicans to illegally graze on American public services but it isn't acceptable for these cattle to graze on public lands? Shouldn't Obama provide the cattle with public housing, EBT cards and Obamaphones?

Great point!

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

He's not doing anything about it so yes he is part of the problem.

Jamo is superior to Polk too.

[Chizzang]

Jamo is superior to Polk too.

in what universe...

[CitadelGrad]

Great point!

I knew this whole thing was Obama's fault..!!!

Of course it is. Everything is Obama's fault.

The truth is that land developers and mining companies have been trying to move Bundy off of this public land and the land that he owns outright. There is apparently a great deal of water and minerals under that land and it is prime real estate along I-15. Bundy has been rejecting their offers to sell, so now big business is using the coercive and violent power of government to serve their interests. Harry Reid needs a kickback, so Bundy better haul ass.

And some people are pissed that corporations can make political contributions.

[kalm]

I knew this whole thing was Obama's fault..!!!

Of course it is. Everything is Obama's fault.

The truth is that land developers and mining companies have been trying to move Bundy off of this public land and the land that he owns outright. There is apparently a great deal of water and minerals under that land and it is prime real estate along I-15. Bundy has been rejecting their offers to sell, so now big business is using the coercive and violent power of government to serve their interests. Harry Reid needs a kickback, so Bundy better haul ass.

And some people are pissed that corporations can make political contributions.

So now he actually owns the land?

[Baldy]

Of course it is. Everything is Obama's fault.

The truth is that land developers and mining companies have been trying to move Bundy off of this public land and the land that he owns outright. There is apparently a great deal of water and minerals under that land and it is prime real estate along I-15. Bundy has been rejecting their offers to sell, so now big business is using the coercive and violent power of government to serve their interests. Harry Reid needs a kickback, so Bundy better haul ass.

And some people are pissed that corporations can make political contributions.

So now he actually owns the land?

The truth is that land developers and mining companies have been trying to move Bundy off of this public land and the land that he owns outright.

Reading comprehension.

[travelinman67]

Sooner or later, the truth surfaces...

http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-ha ... ndy-ranch/

[houndawg]

So now he actually owns the land?

The truth is that land developers and mining companies have been trying to move Bundy off of this public land and the land that he owns outright.

Reading comprehension.

Bundy owns 150 acres. About enough to support maybe ten head. He is the textbook example of your welfare cowboy.
Interesting that the Nevada Cattlemen's Association does not support him.

[houndawg]

I knew this whole thing was Obama's fault..!!!

Of course it is. Everything is Obama's fault.

The truth is that land developers and mining companies have been trying to move Bundy off of this public land and the land that he owns outright. There is apparently a great deal of water and minerals under that land and it is prime real estate along I-15. Bundy has been rejecting their offers to sell, so now big business is using the coercive and violent power of government to serve their interests. Harry Reid needs a kickback, so Bundy better haul ass.

And some people are pissed that corporations can make political contributions.

So what? We take take resources all over the planet all the fvcking time. And you want to whimper about some some pissant welfare cowboy that doesn't even have the support of his own state cattlemen's association?

We're preparing to settle troops into Afghanistan in perpetuity because of their natural resources. A much better target for your outrage.

[CitadelGrad]

Of course it is. Everything is Obama's fault.

The truth is that land developers and mining companies have been trying to move Bundy off of this public land and the land that he owns outright. There is apparently a great deal of water and minerals under that land and it is prime real estate along I-15. Bundy has been rejecting their offers to sell, so now big business is using the coercive and violent power of government to serve their interests. Harry Reid needs a kickback, so Bundy better haul ass.

And some people are pissed that corporations can make political contributions.

So what? We take take resources all over the planet all the fvcking time. And you want to whimper about some some pissant welfare cowboy that doesn't even have the support of his own state cattlemen's association?

We're preparing to settle troops into Afghanistan in perpetuity because of their natural resources. A much better target for your outrage.

I've already expressed my opposition to further U.S. military involvement in Afghanistan.

I wonder why this only became an issue after real estate developers, mining companies and Chinese solar power companies identified these public lands as an acquisition target.

I don't agree that Bundy is a welfare cowboy, given his historical connection to that land, but if there is welfare involved, I'd rather see it in Bundy's hands than the hands of Harry Reid's corporate "associates" in the U.S. and China.

[houndawg]

So what? We take take resources all over the planet all the fvcking time. And you want to whimper about some some pissant welfare cowboy that doesn't even have the support of his own state cattlemen's association?

We're preparing to settle troops into Afghanistan in perpetuity because of their natural resources. A much better target for your outrage.

I've already expressed my opposition to further U.S. military involvement in Afghanistan.

I wonder why this only became an issue after real estate developers, mining companies and Chinese solar power companies identified these public lands as an acquisition target.

I don't agree that Bundy is a welfare cowboy, given his historical connection to that land, but if there is welfare involved, I'd rather see it in Bundy's hands than the hands of Harry Reid's corporate "associates" in the U.S. and China.

Either way, the turtle is fvcked.

He is a welfare cowboy and a squatter. He grazes on public land without paying fees, he puts too many cattle on the land and doesn't take care of the land. Stupid fvck should have bought more land if he wanted to ranch in Nevada.

It speaks volumes that the Nevada State Cattlemen's Association doesn't support him.

[houndawg]

So what? We take take resources all over the planet all the fvcking time. And you want to whimper about some some pissant welfare cowboy that doesn't even have the support of his own state cattlemen's association?

We're preparing to settle troops into Afghanistan in perpetuity because of their natural resources. A much better target for your outrage.

I've already expressed my opposition to further U.S. military involvement in Afghanistan.

I wonder why this only became an issue after real estate developers, mining companies and Chinese solar power companies identified these public lands as an acquisition target.

I don't agree that Bundy is a welfare cowboy, given his historical connection to that land, but if there is welfare involved, I'd rather see it in Bundy's hands than the hands of Harry Reid's corporate "associates" in the U.S. and China.

Wish in one hand and crap in the other...

[kalm]

Sooner or later, the truth surfaces...

http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-ha ... ndy-ranch/

First Drudge, then the Blaze, and now Alex Jones? Thank god someone is doing the people's work as lord knows we can't trust the msm.

BTW, where's Spandos through all of this? Don't tell me they got to him too?

[houndawg]

Sooner or later, the truth surfaces...

http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-ha ... ndy-ranch/

First Drudge, then the Blaze, and now Alex Jones? Thank god someone is doing the people's work as lord knows we can't trust the msm.

BTW, where's Spandos through all of this? Don't tell me they got to him too?

Spanko is at an undisclosed location, but he will get to the bottom of this shit.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Good for Bundy, he won and the enemy backed off.

Many more people need to stand up and tell the federal government to go fu*k themselves.