Catholic Church and having babies

[OSBF]

I get what's going on here. Its easier to attack the semantics and in-correct use of terminology than it is to just answer the question. Deflection is a classic defense mechanism around here. The longer you can deflect, the longer you can go without answering any real questions about real issues.

I've seen a couple real answers... the answer is none of us have ever heard of this happening before.

You're right, and I thank you for that.

I really didn't think this made any sense, even tho church doctrine likely does support it. I'm guessing that in entirety my brothers family will be moving on if things don't level out a little. That would be 5 families leaving the congregation. No body will notice, however, this place seats something like 2000 on Sunday Morning. Been over 30 years since I've personally been in the building, was there for my brothers weding in 1974.

[Appaholic]

I'm probably going to regret wading in here, but here goes....this is what OSBF stated:

a priest that leads a small group they are part of, a small group for young/newly married couples

He's all over the ass of any couple married longer than a couple of years that are without children. My niece and nephew made the mistake of stating that they had no intention of having children, just because they don't want to.

Now, not being fluent in the Catholic nomenclature, do you have "associate" priests like an Associate Pastor or Youth Group Minister in a Baptist church? Cold this be what OSBF is referring to? This is what I took out of it...not the Cardinal & not the Parish Priest, but a "priest" (authority figure) leading a small group of young adults?

[YoUDeeMan]

Still no pics of the hot young lady.

[Appaholic]

The way this claim unraveled so comically was rare even for the nonsense which gets asserted about Catholicism here.

It wasn't just a bishop doing this, but an archbishop; but because this is Chicago, that's not just an archbishop there, but one of only six American bishops who is a Cardinal; and not just any one of those six Cardinals, but Cardinal Francis George, the most noteworthy and significant of the American Cardinals -- a theologian of world-wide renown and the face of American Catholicism to the world.

So Cardinal Francis George is personally excommunicating OSBF's newphew and his very hot young wife with a killer body.

Hysterical.

OK...six bishops in US...Cardinal George is one of them....very noteworthy & significant....cannot be bothered with excommunicating little people....JJ knows his Catholicism....got it, JJ...Francis George rocks the congregation....

[JoltinJoe]

I'm probably going to regret wading in here, but here goes....this is what OSBF stated:

a priest that leads a small group they are part of, a small group for young/newly married couples

Yes, he said that, but only after he first identified him as a cardinal, and there were multiple posts scoffing at his claim that a cardinal in Chicago was involved in this alleged event.

The point in the thread at which he called him a cardinal has been quoted by both Andy and me. He later tried to call him a priest, but that was after it became clear that there just aren't that many active cardinals in the US.

[OSBF]

I'm probably going to regret wading in here, but here goes....this is what OSBF stated:

a priest that leads a small group they are part of, a small group for young/newly married couples

He's all over the ass of any couple married longer than a couple of years that are without children. My niece and nephew made the mistake of stating that they had no intention of having children, just because they don't want to.

Now, not being fluent in the Catholic nomenclature, do you have "associate" priests like an Associate Pastor or Youth Group Minister in a Baptist church? Cold this be what OSBF is referring to? This is what I took out of it...not the Cardinal & not the Parish Priest, but a "priest" (authority figure) leading a small group of young adults?

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER

It's just easier for folks like andy and dodger joe to deflect into attacking semantics than to deal with issues by offering up any straight answers to questions.

[Appaholic]

Still no pics of the hot young lady.

No, but here is Cardinal Francis George, one of only 6 noteworthy & signicant Cardinals in US...

[JoltinJoe]

The way this claim unraveled so comically was rare even for the nonsense which gets asserted about Catholicism here.

It wasn't just a bishop doing this, but an archbishop; but because this is Chicago, that's not just an archbishop there, but one of only six American bishops who is a Cardinal; and not just any one of those six Cardinals, but Cardinal Francis George, the most noteworthy and significant of the American Cardinals -- a theologian of world-wide renown and the face of American Catholicism to the world.

So Cardinal Francis George is personally excommunicating OSBF's newphew and his very hot young wife with a killer body.

Hysterical.

OK...six bishops in US...Cardinal George is one of them....very noteworthy & significant....cannot be bothered with excommunicating little people....JJ knows his Catholicism....got it, JJ...Francis George rocks the congregation....

If Cardinal George were excommunicating people for using birth control, we'd had a front-page national story on our hands. So I call bullshit.

[OSBF]

Yes, he said that, but only after he first identified him as a cardinal, and there were multiple posts scoffing at his claim that a cardinal in Chicago was involved in this alleged event.

I never made the claim that bernadin was involved in any way

you and ady made that up to deflect away from the issue

[JoltinJoe]

Yes, he said that, but only after he first identified him as a cardinal, and there were multiple posts scoffing at his claim that a cardinal in Chicago was involved in this alleged event.

I never made the claim that bernadin was involved in any way

you and ady made that up to deflect away from the issue

The thread is here in its entirety. You said the guy involved was a cardinal. You said it. It's right there in black and white. You tried to backtrack only after you realized that there are but a handful of active cardinals in the US.

Why did you make this thing up?

[JoltinJoe]

I'm probably going to regret wading in here, but here goes....this is what OSBF stated:



Now, not being fluent in the Catholic nomenclature, do you have "associate" priests like an Associate Pastor or Youth Group Minister in a Baptist church? Cold this be what OSBF is referring to? This is what I took out of it...not the Cardinal & not the Parish Priest, but a "priest" (authority figure) leading a small group of young adults?

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER

It's just easier for folks like andy and dodger joe to deflect into attacking semantics than to deal with issues by offering up any straight answers to questions.

LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE.

This whole story is BS.

[Appaholic]

OK...six bishops in US...Cardinal George is one of them....very noteworthy & significant....cannot be bothered with excommunicating little people....JJ knows his Catholicism....got it, JJ...Francis George rocks the congregation....

If Cardinal George were excommunicating people for using birth control, we'd had a front-page national story on our hands. So I call bullshit.

I think we got that covered, JJ...I'm sure OSBF is very sorry that he mispoke regarding Cardinal George & will pay in spades come purgatory, but we can move on...now, have you ever heard of a lesser priest in a smaller parish trying to ex-communicate a couple who have chosen not to procreate? Maybe some priest trying to make a name for himself or something? I think that is the gist of OSBF's original line of questioning....

[JoltinJoe]

If Cardinal George were excommunicating people for using birth control, we'd had a front-page national story on our hands. So I call bullshit.

I think we got that covered, JJ...I'm sure OSBF is very sorry that he mispoke regarding Cardinal George & will pay in spades come purgatory, but we can move on...now, have you ever heard of a lesser priest in a smaller parish trying to ex-communicate a couple who have chosen not to procreate? Maybe some priest trying to make a name for himself or something? I think that is the gist of OSBF's original line of questioning....

No, a priest cannot excommunicate you. So even that part of the story doesn't make sense.

Let me add this.

Within a diocese, the bishop of that diocese is the first person within the organizational structure who can excommunicate a communicant. Moreover, only the highest ranking bishop in any diocese has the authority to so act against any communicant within the diocese.

Chicago is an Archdiocese, so the Archbishop of Chicago is the only one who could excommunicate OSBF's nephew. The Archbishop of Chicago is also a Cardinal -- Cardinal George. So no matter how you slice it, a claim that a communicant of the Archdiocese of Chicago is being excommunicated implicates Cardinal George.

This is why I knew this thread was nonsense from the first posting. Thus, my early "manure warning."

Edit: Here is the link to the on-line Catholic encyclopedia regarding excommunication:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm

But a parish priest cannot inflict this penalty nor even declare that it is incurred, i.e. he cannot do so in an official and judicial manner.

[89Hen]

Now, not being fluent in the Catholic nomenclature, do you have "associate" priests like an Associate Pastor or Youth Group Minister in a Baptist church? Cold this be what OSBF is referring to? This is what I took out of it...not the Cardinal & not the Parish Priest, but a "priest" (authority figure) leading a small group of young adults?

FWIW, at a church the priest in charge of the parish is the Pastor. He can be a regular priest or a Monsignor (higher designation). There will be other priests either in "residence" or "visiting". The church may also have Deacons who are still ordained, but can be married. They may have parishoners helping with other things like Pre-Cana (pre-marriage classes) but they are not church officials.

[OSBF]

I never made the claim that bernadin was involved in any way

you and ady made that up to deflect away from the issue

The thread is here in its entirety. You said the guy involved was a cardinal. You said it. It's right there in black and white.



Why did you make this thing up?

I most certainly did not say or even allude to bernadin being involved

I was answering the questioning of my use of the word prominent to describe the building in which the family attends services

[JoltinJoe]

I'm lost again. So he's no longer a priest?

[/quote]

excuse the f out of me for not being fluent in the lingo

he's a cardinal, thought it might be a sin of some sort to refer him a priest

i'm not going to "tell" them to do anything

[89Hen]

I don't often stick up for OB, but it's clear he never said the Cardinal was the one doing this.

[Appaholic]

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER

It's just easier for folks like andy and dodger joe to deflect into attacking semantics than to deal with issues by offering up any straight answers to questions.

LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE.

This whole story is BS.

FWIW, here is what OSBF stated...he was answering a question from Andy regarding his brother being Catholic & whther or not the Parish was a large or prominent one & used Cardnial Bernadine as a frame of reference as he used to attend this Parish....I did not see OSBF stating the Cardinal was the one trying to ex-communicate his brother & sis-in-law:

My brother married a catholic girl from the big city that he met in college. I don't know if he ever formally converted or not, but they raised the kids catholic.

Yes, it is a cathedral, I think. They have a high school and a "college". Former parish of Cardinal Bernadine(Chicago). He still attends there somewhat regularily. He married my brother and his wife back in the day when he was a priest.

[Appaholic]

Now, not being fluent in the Catholic nomenclature, do you have "associate" priests like an Associate Pastor or Youth Group Minister in a Baptist church? Cold this be what OSBF is referring to? This is what I took out of it...not the Cardinal & not the Parish Priest, but a "priest" (authority figure) leading a small group of young adults?

FWIW, at a church the priest in charge of the parish is the Pastor. He can be a regular priest or a Monsignor (higher designation). There will be other priests either in "residence" or "visiting". The church may also have Deacons who are still ordained, but can be married. They may have parishoners helping with other things like Pre-Cana (pre-marriage classes) but they are not church officials.

Thanks '89

[JoltinJoe]

LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE.

This whole story is BS.

FWIW, here is what OSBF stated...he was answering a question from Andy regarding his brother being Catholic & whther or not the Parish was a large or prominent one & used Cardnial Bernadine as a frame of reference as he used to attend this Parish....I did not see OSBF stating the Cardinal was the one trying to ex-communicate his brother & sis-in-law:

My brother married a catholic girl from the big city that he met in college. I don't know if he ever formally converted or not, but they raised the kids catholic.

Yes, it is a cathedral, I think. They have a high school and a "college". Former parish of Cardinal Bernadine(Chicago). He still attends there somewhat regularily. He married my brother and his wife back in the day when he was a priest.

You're throwing him a lifeline he doesn't deserve. After this, Andy questioned the language "when he was a priest" referring to the cleric involved, and asked so this cleric is no longer a priest. And OSBF answered that he was a cardinal. This is so clear it boggles the imagination that you would try to defend him:

I'm lost again. So he's no longer a priest?

excuse the f out of me for not being fluent in the lingo

he's a cardinal, thought it might be a sin of some sort to refer him a priest

i'm not going to "tell" them to do anything

If I did, it would be to find a nice Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist etc etc etc church and go there.

That's when I responded that there was only one cardinal in Chicago ...

[OSBF]

FWIW, here is what OSBF stated...he was answering a question from Andy regarding his brother being Catholic & whther or not the Parish was a large or prominent one & used Cardnial Bernadine as a frame of reference as he used to attend this Parish....I did not see OSBF stating the Cardinal was the one trying to ex-communicate his brother & sis-in-law:

You're throwing him a lifeline he doesn't deserve. After this, Andy questioned the language "when he was a priest" referring to the cleric involved, and asked so this cleric is no longer a priest. And OSBF answered that he was a cardinal. This is so clear it boggles the imagination that you would try to defend him:

excuse the f out of me for not being fluent in the lingo

he's a cardinal, thought it might be a sin of some sort to refer him a priest

i'm not going to "tell" them to do anything

If I did, it would be to find a nice Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist etc etc etc church and go there.

That's when I responded that there was only one cardinal in Chicago ...

Are you really so dense that you can't follow this?

[JoltinJoe]

You're throwing him a lifeline he doesn't deserve. After this, Andy questioned the language "when he was a priest" referring to the cleric involved, and asked so this cleric is no longer a priest. And OSBF answered that he was a cardinal. This is so clear it boggles the imagination that you would try to defend him:



That's when I responded that there was only one cardinal in Chicago ...

Are you really so dense that you can't follow this?

(PS -- Priests do not have ecclesiastical authority to excommunicate anyone, so even your revised story is silly too.)

[OSBF]

Are you really so dense that you can't follow this?

(PS -- Priests do not have ecclesiastical authority to excommunicate anyone, so even your revised story is silly too.)

I never revised anything, no need to

You're the only one here not getting it

Even andy has bowed out

you're all alone here

and you've reduced yourself to smilies, just like when D kicks your ass

[JoltinJoe]

(PS -- Priests do not have ecclesiastical authority to excommunicate anyone, so even your revised story is silly too.)

I never revised anything, no need to

You're the only one here not getting it

Even andy has bowed out

you're all alone here

and you've reduced yourself to smilies, just like when D kicks your ass

Ah ... look, your story is a fabrication. Andy creamed you. I'm just cleaning up. This isn't a matter of your inability to express yourself in meaningful English -- although you certainly have that problem too.

Your nephew is not being threatened with excommunication. The priest can't do it, and the archbishop of Chicago, i.e. Cardinal, is not involved (by your own belated concession), and he's the only one who could do it. So, ironically in running for cover from the claim that the cardinal is involved, you have retreated head-first into another problem: the guy you claim is excommunicating them lacks the authority to do it.

What a sticky web we weave ...

You made this up.

You know it.

And you didn't fool me.

If you want to continue this charade because you think you can save face with people here who don't understand Catholicism, go at it. Just because you didn't fool me or andy doesn't mean that you can't fool others.

[andy7171]

For the recrd, I started responding to this because I thought I could honestly offer some insight. I had no idea this was even a Catholic issue. I only responded to the Cardinal Bernadine as a specific because I have/had no idea who this guy was. The fact of whether this Cardinal was Bernadine or George is irreavelant. Both are just names to me. Why would I focus on one or the other? OSBF is focusing on it because it is the one flaw in my busting apart of his complete sham of a story.

Bottomline(big focus in Batlimore sports today(ray lewis))
There is no Cardinal harrassing OSBF's nephew and hot wife. Focusing on which Cardinal is of topic, is OSBF playing semantics.

This story is a sham. If true, it is of my opinion, as stated early on, that this priest should be excommunicated, not the hot couple.