The Ukraine Crisis

[SeattleGriz]

Oh, did he call you up and tell you what was going on like he does with his war strategy?

“I appeal to the citizens of Russia, to the personnel of the armed forces, law enforcement and security services, fighters and commanders currently fighting on their positions, repelling the enemy attacks, doing it heroically.

“I spoke to the commanders in all directions last night. I appeal also to those who were deceptively pulled into the criminal adventure, pushed towards a serious crime of an armed mutiny.


“Russia today is leading the most difficult war for its future, repelling the aggression of neo-Nazis and their handlers. Against us, the whole military, economical and information machines of the west are turned. We fight for the lives and security of our people. For our sovereignty and independence. The right to remain Russia, a state with 1,000 years of history.

“It’s a battle where the fate of our people is decided and requires uniting of all our forces, unity, consolidation and responsibility. Everything else that weakens us must be shoved to the side.

“Our external enemies are using any arguments to undermine us from within. Thus, actions splitting our unity is a betrayal of our people, our combat brothers who fight now at the frontline.

“It’s a strike in the back of our country and our people. Exactly this strike was dealt in 1917 when the country was in world war one, but its victory was stolen. Intrigues, and arguments behind the army’s back turned out to be the greatest catastrophe, destruction of the army and the state, loss of huge territories, resulting in a tragedy and a civil war. Russians were killing Russians, brothers killing brothers. But the beneficiaries were various political chevaliers of fortune and foreign powers who divided the country, and tore it into parts.


“We will not let this happen. We will protect our people and state from any threats, including internal betrayal.

“What we’re facing is exactly internal betrayal. Extraordinary ambitions and personal interests led to treason. Treason of their own country and people and of the case that fighters of Wagner were dying for alongside our soldiers. Heroes who liberated Soledar and Artemivsk, towns and cities of the Donbas. They fought and were giving lives to Novorossiya and the unity of the Russian world.

“Their name and glory were also betrayed by those who are trying to organise the mutiny, pushing the country into anarchy and brother-killing, to a defeat, in the end, and capitulation.

“Repeat: any internal mutiny is a deadly threat to our state, to us as a nation. It’s a strike against our nation, our people. And our actions to defend the fatherland from such a threat will be brutal. Anyone who consciously went on the path of betrayal, who prepared the armed mutiny, went on the path of blackmail and terrorist actions, will take an inevitable punishment. They will answer to the law and our people.“

PS: JK…we struck a deal.

You got played...again. No coup. Not even close. Shoigu is hated for his lack of military service and the nepotism of his daughter being in the government.

This is probably the closest.

[houndawg]

Obviously don't know intentions here, but if true, could push closer to wider war like this guy says.

The downing of the Reaper drone a couple months ago was a brushback pitch letting Western Intel know Russia was getting fed up with NATO participating in the war (ISR), but doing it outside the boundaries of Ukraine.

Pretty direct threat.

https://gilbertdoctorow.com/2023/06/20/ ... ing-speed/

The statement by Shoigu leaves little doubt that we are entering the final phase of the Ukraine war as a war limited to the geography of Ukraine, and are possibly heading into a wider war with unforeseeable consequences both for Europeans and (finally) for Americans.

The ball is in the court of Washington and London.

The ball is in the court of the invaders. They can stop this war (Putin's word) whenever they want to

[houndawg]

PS: JK…we struck a deal.

You got played...again. No coup. Not even close. Shoigu is hated for his lack of military service and the nepotism of his daughter being in the government.

This is probably the closest.

He's a mercenary, all we have to do is pay him to switch sides.

[kalm]

PS: JK…we struck a deal.

You got played...again. No coup. Not even close. Shoigu is hated for his lack of military service and the nepotism of his daughter being in the government.

This is probably the closest.

And still, Putin has done nothing to Pirghozin. Dropped tgd charges, let him leave.

And what “major victory” did Shoigu deliver?

[houndawg]

You got played...again. No coup. Not even close. Shoigu is hated for his lack of military service and the nepotism of his daughter being in the government.

This is probably the closest.

And still, Putin has done nothing to Pirghozin. Dropped tgd charges, let him leave.

And what “major victory” did Shoigu deliver?

Not yet, but in the end either Shoigu or Prigozhin is going to take the blame for Putin's massive failure and all three of them know it.

[kalm]

And still, Putin has done nothing to Pirghozin. Dropped tgd charges, let him leave.

And what “major victory” did Shoigu deliver?

Not yet, but in the end either Shoigu or Prigozhin is going to take the blame for Putin's massive failure and all three of them know it.

I agree. He likely struck a deal with Pirghozin because he perceived a very real threat.

[SeattleGriz]

You got played...again. No coup. Not even close. Shoigu is hated for his lack of military service and the nepotism of his daughter being in the government.

This is probably the closest.

He's a mercenary, all we have to do is pay him to switch sides.

What did Machiavelli say about mercenaries? It's been speculated the CIA got him to pull this stunt. Reports of Wagnerites not knowing what was going on.

Who knows. All speculation, but you are right about mercenaries.

I say, therefore, that the arms with which a prince defends his state are either his own, or they are mercenaries, auxiliaries, or mixed. Mercenaries and auxiliaries are useless and dangerous; and if one holds his state based on these arms, he will stand neither firm nor safe; for they are disunited, ambitious, and without discipline, unfaithful, valiant before friends, cowardly before enemies; they have neither the fear of God nor fidelity to men, and destruction is deferred only so long as the attack is; for in peace one is robbed by them, and in war by the enemy. The fact is, they have no other attraction or reason for keeping the field than a trifle of stipend, which is not sufficient to make them willing to die for you. They are ready enough to be your soldiers whilst you do not make war, but if war comes they take themselves off or run from the foe; which I should have little trouble to prove, for the ruin of Italy has been caused by nothing else than by resting all her hopes for many years on mercenaries, and although they formerly made some display and appeared valiant amongst themselves, yet when the foreigners came they showed what they were.

[houndawg]

He's a mercenary, all we have to do is pay him to switch sides.

What did Machiavelli say about mercenaries? It's been speculated the CIA got him to pull this stunt. Reports of Wagnerites not knowing what was going on.

Who knows. All speculation, but you are right about mercenaries.

I say, therefore, that the arms with which a prince defends his state are either his own, or they are mercenaries, auxiliaries, or mixed. Mercenaries and auxiliaries are useless and dangerous; and if one holds his state based on these arms, he will stand neither firm nor safe; for they are disunited, ambitious, and without discipline, unfaithful, valiant before friends, cowardly before enemies; they have neither the fear of God nor fidelity to men, and destruction is deferred only so long as the attack is; for in peace one is robbed by them, and in war by the enemy. The fact is, they have no other attraction or reason for keeping the field than a trifle of stipend, which is not sufficient to make them willing to die for you. They are ready enough to be your soldiers whilst you do not make war, but if war comes they take themselves off or run from the foe; which I should have little trouble to prove, for the ruin of Italy has been caused by nothing else than by resting all her hopes for many years on mercenaries, and although they formerly made some display and appeared valiant amongst themselves, yet when the foreigners came they showed what they were.

Well, either Prigozhin or Shoigu is going to pay for Putin's debacle with their life eventually- a lot of this is about manuvering to avoid being the chosen one I suspect

[Silenoz]

[kalm]

[BDKJMU]

The US should stop supporting the dictator Zelensky, who has suspended elections until the war ends, whenever that might be.
https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-hold-ele ... 00850.html

[GannonFan]

The US should stop supporting the dictator Zelensky, who has suspended elections until the war ends, whenever that might be.
https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-hold-ele ... 00850.html

Do the Russians currently in Ukraine as part of the invasion to annihilate the country get to vote too?

By your definition we shouldn't have lifted a finger to help France in WWII since the Vichy government under Petain was so crappy.

[BDKJMU]

When did Russia invade Iraq
Last night at a fundraiser Biden, according to White House transcripts:

"If anybody told you — and my staff wasn't so sure, either — that we'd be able to bring all of Europe together in the onslaught on Iraq and get NATO to be completely united, I think they would have told you it's not likely. "The one thing Putin counted on was being able to split NATO."

Today:

[houndawg]

The US should stop supporting the dictator Zelensky, who has suspended elections until the war ends, whenever that might be.
https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-hold-ele ... 00850.html

Russia will be wrapping this up and installing a puppet gubmint any time now, V. Putin is remains master strategist

[SeattleGriz]

The US should stop supporting the dictator Zelensky, who has suspended elections until the war ends, whenever that might be.
https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-hold-ele ... 00850.html

Russia will be wrapping this up and installing a puppet gubmint any time now, V. Putin is remains master strategist

Bitch please. You've been saying Russia would get routed.

You're the typical Saluki fan that jumps off the bandwagon two games in after beating WIU to start the season. Weak.

[SeattleGriz]

Way to change the talk. You're on record, as badly as Houdie' telling us Russia was getting whooped. Now you try to deflect to avoid how bad you've looked in this thread.

Let me guess. You were for COVID before you were against it.

[Silenoz]

Remember that time you predicted great Russian success over and over and over again?

Good times

[SeattleGriz]

Remember that time you predicted great Russian success over and over and over again?

Good times

Where exactly has Ukraine busted into Russian territory and gained land?

You've been duped and are afraid to admit it. You'll switch jerseys later.

[houndawg]

Russia will be wrapping this up and installing a puppet gubmint any time now, V. Putin is remains master strategist

Bitch please. You've been saying Russia would get routed.

You're the typical Saluki fan that jumps off the bandwagon two games in after beating WIU to start the season. Weak.

True - but I never thought it would be by Prigozhin.

[houndawg]

Remember that time you predicted great Russian success over and over and over again?

Good times

Where exactly has Ukraine busted into Russian territory and gained land?

You've been duped and are afraid to admit it. You'll switch jerseys later.

Ukraine isn't interested in taking Russian territory, just moving Russians back on to it and off the land they invaded

[kalm]

Remember that time you predicted great Russian success over and over and over again?

Good times

Where exactly has Ukraine busted into Russian territory and gained land?

You've been duped and are afraid to admit it. You'll switch jerseys later.

No need for you to switch, eh? You’ve been wearing the right jersey all along.

[houndawg]

Remember that time you predicted great Russian success over and over and over again?

Good times

Where exactly has Ukraine busted into Russian territory and gained land?

You've been duped and are afraid to admit it. You'll switch jerseys later.

SG!


What up bro, where ya been? Usually you're here daily with an update on the Russian's latest routing of Ukraine's military....did something change or something..? We count on you for the inside skinny of the situation

[kalm]

Where exactly has Ukraine busted into Russian territory and gained land?

You've been duped and are afraid to admit it. You'll switch jerseys later.

SG!


What up bro, where ya been? Usually you're here daily with an update on the Russian's latest routing of Ukraine's military....did something change or something..? We count on you for the inside skinny of the situation

.

I’ll try answering for him. Ukraine (really NATO) is planning on striking the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant. They of course will try to blame it on Russia by duping the western press into erroneously reporting that Russia has planted explosives to sabotage it.

[kalm]

[houndawg]

SG!


What up bro, where ya been? Usually you're here daily with an update on the Russian's latest routing of Ukraine's military....did something change or something..? We count on you for the inside skinny of the situation

.

I’ll try answering for him. Ukraine (really NATO) is planning on striking the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant. They of course will try to blame it on Russia by duping the western press into erroneously reporting that Russia has planted explosives to sabotage it.

just like the dam....I thought so...