Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

[kalm]

Yes. Unless the GRU was just completely oblivious to the US election. But, we know that's not the case - since they were the ones running active measures. So, what - you think the GRU had an in with the Trump campaign chairman - but, decided not to use that to their advantage in any way whatsoever? Ok.

Wonder why van der Zwaan is currently sitting in a prison cell for lying and trying to cover up Manafort and Kilimnik's connections? Wonder why Manafort - an expensive political consultant, up to his neck in debt - volunteered for the Trump campaign without a salary. Maybe working for someone else? Manafort spoke no Russian or Ukrainian. He had no grasp of Ukrainian politics. He was working at the direction of Kilimnik who was working for GRU. Kilimnik was/is Manafort's handler.

Wasn’t Manafort supposedly involved in Ukrainian politics for years?

[Skjellyfetti]

So it’s a fact that Kilimerick is GRU. Is that right?

According to the FBI.

Rick Gates, a senior official on President Donald Trump’s campaign, was in contact in September and October 2016 with an associate who the FBI assessed had ongoing ties to Russia's intelligence services, special counsel Robert Mueller said in a new court filing.

In a federal court filing Tuesday, Mueller described the associate of Gates and former campaign chairman Paul Manafort as “Person A” and said Gates was aware of the person’s links to the GRU intelligence service. The individual has been identified in news reports as Konstantin Kilimnik, a longtime business associate from Manafort’s days working on behalf of a Kremlin-aligned Ukrainian political party.

Kilimnik’s suspected ties to Russian intelligence have been established, but it was not previously known whether those links continued into 2016. Manafort reportedly met with him at least twice that year, including in August, during a crucial stretch of the campaign.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/ ... ies-489693

[Skjellyfetti]

Wasn’t Manafort supposedly involved in Ukrainian politics for years?

Yeah, since around 2005. Kilimnik and Manafort started working together around that time.

Here's a pretty good profile of their relationship (from before Kilimnik was indicted and just known in Mueller's filings as Person A).
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... -a/562217/

[CID1990]

So it’s a fact that Kilimerick is GRU. Is that right?

According to the FBI.

Rick Gates, a senior official on President Donald Trump’s campaign, was in contact in September and October 2016 with an associate who the FBI assessed had ongoing ties to Russia's intelligence services, special counsel Robert Mueller said in a new court filing.

In a federal court filing Tuesday, Mueller described the associate of Gates and former campaign chairman Paul Manafort as “Person A” and said Gates was aware of the person’s links to the GRU intelligence service. The individual has been identified in news reports as Konstantin Kilimnik, a longtime business associate from Manafort’s days working on behalf of a Kremlin-aligned Ukrainian political party.

Kilimnik’s suspected ties to Russian intelligence have been established, but it was not previously known whether those links continued into 2016. Manafort reportedly met with him at least twice that year, including in August, during a crucial stretch of the campaign.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/ ... ies-489693

Yeah that's what I thought - NO

He has links to the GRU - like every businessperson in all of Russia -

if you do business in Russia, you are under constant risk of being co-opted - as Manafort surely was

The last time I drank with a Russian he surely had ties to the GRU

but that's a big difference between being a sworn GRU agent and being on their payroll - and it is being played as some kind of Big Deal by your favorite collusion hopeful outlets that you just linked

I'm just making sure we're on the same page here... your Secret Squirrel dude isn't GRU... he has ties to the GRU... just like every person in Russia who owns more than one house-

And if we find that Manafort had a hand in the destabilization of Ukraine, then maybe it can be inferred that he was recruited to do the same here - that's the connection you are trying to draw... actually, The Hitlantic and Politico are trying to draw it... but anyone who knows anything about the Russians know that a relationship with a GRU connected biz man isn't exactly notable

then again, you married a Russian (thats like being able to see Russia from your backyard) so maybe you have a special perspective that I dont


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Skjellyfetti]

He has links to the GRU - like every businessperson in all of Russia -

Every business person doesn't have ties to GRU. GRU is foreign military intelligence. Doing business at a reasonable level does involve a lot of bribes and you may cross paths with FSB or internal security occasionally. But, GRU and SVR, etc. aren't something a regular business guy in Russia deals with regularly.

Gates and van der Zwaan knew he was GRU. And they lied and concealed it. They didn't just say "oh, everyone in Russia has ties to GRU." Because that shit doesn't fly - it's BS.

And, Kilimnik wasn't a normal businessman. Here's his career path.

He studied at the Military Institute of the Ministry of Defense in Moscow, and after the Soviet breakup took Russian citizenship, he said in the interview. The institute trains interpreters for the Russian military intelligence agency, formerly known as the G.R.U. and now called the Main Directorate.

He worked for a time in Sweden as an interpreter for a Russian company that exported arms, and later in the Moscow office of the International Republican Institute, a Washington-based nonprofit, where former employees said they suspected he was informing on them to the Russian authorities.

He parted ways with the organization, a former employee of the Moscow office said, after the chief of the F.S.B., the successor agency to the K.G.B., talked in a speech about the private meetings of the institute’s officials.

They didn’t have evidence, but suspected Mr. Kilimnik had been the source, said the former official, who could not be cited publicly discussing personnel issues.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/worl ... afort.html

if you do business in Russia, you are under constant risk of being co-opted - as Manafort surely was

Wait.

You agree that Manafort was probably co-opted.....?

Trump's campaign manager was co-opted by Russia? And, coordination between Manafort and Russian intelligence on Trump's campaign isn't even worth investigation? WAT.

And if we find that Manafort had a hand in the destabilization of Ukraine, then maybe it can be inferred that he was recruited to do the same here

Manafort did have a hand in the destabilization of Ukraine. I didn't realize that was even in dispute.

Manafort and Kilimnik had one client in Ukraine. Yanukovych. Moscow (via Manafort and Kilimnik) kept him in power through destabilization, arresting political opponents, and turning the Russian-speaking population against Kyiv. Unstable Ukraine led by Kremlin proxy = no NATO membership.

I don't have time to recount Ukrainian politics while Manafort was running things from mid 2000s through 2014 when his client fled to Russia. But, yeah - Manafort definitely had a hand in destabilization of Ukraine.

This brings up another point. Do you believe Yanukovych was Moscow's puppet? Or is that fake news?

If you agree that Yanukovych was the Kremlin's puppet - do you think that they would send someone/anyone to make sure he stays in power? You think Manafort worked in a vacuum to elect Putin's guy and keep him in power - completely divorced from Russian intelligence? Yah right. Kilimnik was their guy.



And, he was recruited to advance Russian interests here (and in Europe).

Manafort got a $10,000,000 annual contract from Oleg Deripaska to advance Russian interests abroad - in Europe and the United States.

That's what the "Hapsburg Group" was about. Don't have time to recap it here and this post is already reaching TLDR status. Google it if unfamiliar. But, trying to cover this up is also what got Kilimnik and Manafort charged witness tampering and Manafort thrown in jail.

Why was Manafort offering to give Deripaska private briefings during the Trump campaign? Why did he ask Deripaska how he could use his new position to "get whole"? Not even worth investigating!

[CID1990]

He has links to the GRU - like every businessperson in all of Russia -

Every business person doesn't have ties to GRU. GRU is foreign military intelligence. Doing business at a reasonable level does involve a lot of bribes and you may cross paths with FSB or internal security occasionally. But, GRU and SVR, etc. aren't something a regular business guy in Russia deals with regularly.

Gates and van der Zwaan knew he was GRU. And they lied and concealed it. They didn't just say "oh, everyone in Russia has ties to GRU." Because that **** doesn't fly - it's BS.

And, Kilimnik wasn't a normal businessman. Here's his career path.

He studied at the Military Institute of the Ministry of Defense in Moscow, and after the Soviet breakup took Russian citizenship, he said in the interview. The institute trains interpreters for the Russian military intelligence agency, formerly known as the G.R.U. and now called the Main Directorate.

He worked for a time in Sweden as an interpreter for a Russian company that exported arms, and later in the Moscow office of the International Republican Institute, a Washington-based nonprofit, where former employees said they suspected he was informing on them to the Russian authorities.

He parted ways with the organization, a former employee of the Moscow office said, after the chief of the F.S.B., the successor agency to the K.G.B., talked in a speech about the private meetings of the institute’s officials.

They didn’t have evidence, but suspected Mr. Kilimnik had been the source, said the former official, who could not be cited publicly discussing personnel issues.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/worl ... afort.html

if you do business in Russia, you are under constant risk of being co-opted - as Manafort surely was

Wait.

You agree that Manafort was probably co-opted.....?

Trump's campaign manager was co-opted by Russia? And, coordination between Manafort and Russian intelligence on Trump's campaign isn't even worth investigation? WAT.

And if we find that Manafort had a hand in the destabilization of Ukraine, then maybe it can be inferred that he was recruited to do the same here

Manafort did have a hand in the destabilization of Ukraine. I didn't realize that was even in dispute.

Manafort and Kilimnik had one client in Ukraine. Yanukovych. Moscow (via Manafort and Kilimnik) kept him in power through destabilization, arresting political opponents, and turning the Russian-speaking population against Kyiv. Unstable Ukraine led by Kremlin proxy = no NATO membership.

I don't have time to recount Ukrainian politics while Manafort was running things from mid 2000s through 2014 when his client fled to Russia. But, yeah - Manafort definitely had a hand in destabilization of Ukraine.

This brings up another point. Do you believe Yanukovych was Moscow's puppet? Or is that fake news?

If you agree that Yanukovych was the Kremlin's puppet - do you think that they would send someone/anyone to make sure he stays in power? You think Manafort worked in a vacuum to elect Putin's guy and keep him in power - completely divorced from Russian intelligence? Yah right. Kilimnik was their guy.



And, he was recruited to advance Russian interests here (and in Europe).

Manafort got a $10,000,000 annual contract from Oleg Deripaska to advance Russian interests abroad - in Europe and the United States.

That's what the "Hapsburg Group" was about. Don't have time to recap it here and this post is already reaching TLDR status. Google it if unfamiliar. But, trying to cover this up is also what got Kilimnik and Manafort charged witness tampering and Manafort thrown in jail.

Why was Manafort offering to give Deripaska private briefings during the Trump campaign? Why did he ask Deripaska how he could use his new position to "get whole"? Not even worth investigating!

TL/DR

Saying Klimpitch was a GRU handler is, like just about every other facet of this Russia scandal (of which you are just a casual observer), an exaggeration.

Sorry to make you write War N’ Peace again

[Ivytalk]

Every business person doesn't have ties to GRU. GRU is foreign military intelligence. Doing business at a reasonable level does involve a lot of bribes and you may cross paths with FSB or internal security occasionally. But, GRU and SVR, etc. aren't something a regular business guy in Russia deals with regularly.

Gates and van der Zwaan knew he was GRU. And they lied and concealed it. They didn't just say "oh, everyone in Russia has ties to GRU." Because that **** doesn't fly - it's BS.

And, Kilimnik wasn't a normal businessman. Here's his career path.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/worl ... afort.html






Wait.

You agree that Manafort was probably co-opted.....?

Trump's campaign manager was co-opted by Russia? And, coordination between Manafort and Russian intelligence on Trump's campaign isn't even worth investigation? WAT.



Manafort did have a hand in the destabilization of Ukraine. I didn't realize that was even in dispute.

Manafort and Kilimnik had one client in Ukraine. Yanukovych. Moscow (via Manafort and Kilimnik) kept him in power through destabilization, arresting political opponents, and turning the Russian-speaking population against Kyiv. Unstable Ukraine led by Kremlin proxy = no NATO membership.

I don't have time to recount Ukrainian politics while Manafort was running things from mid 2000s through 2014 when his client fled to Russia. But, yeah - Manafort definitely had a hand in destabilization of Ukraine.

This brings up another point. Do you believe Yanukovych was Moscow's puppet? Or is that fake news?

If you agree that Yanukovych was the Kremlin's puppet - do you think that they would send someone/anyone to make sure he stays in power? You think Manafort worked in a vacuum to elect Putin's guy and keep him in power - completely divorced from Russian intelligence? Yah right. Kilimnik was their guy.



And, he was recruited to advance Russian interests here (and in Europe).

Manafort got a $10,000,000 annual contract from Oleg Deripaska to advance Russian interests abroad - in Europe and the United States.

That's what the "Hapsburg Group" was about. Don't have time to recap it here and this post is already reaching TLDR status. Google it if unfamiliar. But, trying to cover this up is also what got Kilimnik and Manafort charged witness tampering and Manafort thrown in jail.

Why was Manafort offering to give Deripaska private briefings during the Trump campaign? Why did he ask Deripaska how he could use his new position to "get whole"? Not even worth investigating!

TL/DR

Saying Klimpitch was a GRU handler is, like just about every other facet of this Russia scandal (of which you are just a casual observer), an exaggeration.

Sorry to make you write War N’ Peace again

Analjelly may be many things, but he no Tolstoy. Tolstoy at least had the semblance of a plot and character development.

[Skjellyfetti]

Cliff's Notes:

You agree Manafort was "probably co-opted" while he was working in Ukraine?

[SeattleGriz]

Cliff's Notes:

You agree Manafort was "probably co-opted" while he was working in Ukraine?

When are they bringing Podesta into this?

No answer needed, but I find it interesting nothing is being said about Tony in all of this.

[Skjellyfetti]

Mueller is apparently looking at them. Company B in the October indictment. Hired by Manafort and Gates as part of the effort they had a $10,000,000 contract from Deripaska alluded to above in my megapost.

I don't think Democrats or "the left" is completely innocent in this. Jill Stein and the California independence campaign look suspicious as well.

[CID1990]

Cliff's Notes:

You agree Manafort was "probably co-opted" while he was working in Ukraine?

Yeah I forgot I need to be exceptionally precise with you (and not rhetorical at all)

You get dirty by association when you do business with Russians (and Ukrainians also) - whether its corporate espionage, gov/mil, whatever.

but once again, you aren't using common sense here. You're assuming that Manafort or anyone else connected to the Trump campaign were necessary to the Russians to ensure a Trump presidency

The Russians never NEEDED Manafort - nor anybody else

At least not to do the things they did - not one single strategy the Russians employed during the election required assistance in any form from any American.... the troll farms, the hacking- all of it was an indigenous effort

The Russians curry favor with US politicians - period. Putin wants to be out from underneath sanctions over Crimea, and he wants to have people on the inside in DC to help him with it

Manafort would be the sugar in Trump's ear - just as there is someone who would be the sugar in Hillary's ear

But by all means... let's keep pushing the collusion narrative - it makes real sense to the ignorant and short attention spans


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Skjellyfetti]

I never said they NEEDED Manafort.

But, if they have a guy that they've co-opted as campaign chairman/manager - you're pretty naive if you don't think they're going to pull on that string.

You don't even think it's worthy of investigation...

[CID1990]

I never said they NEEDED Manafort.

But, if they have a guy that they've co-opted as campaign chairman/manager - you're pretty naive if you don't think they're going to pull on that string.

You don't even think it's worthy of investigation...

Pull that string to do what, Jelly?

Enlighten us all

OF COURSE they're going to pull that string. But you and the rest of the Russian outrage brigade are a bunch of lying coon dogs on the wrong tree. That's what I've been saying all along and now you just said it... now you just need to follow it to the logical conclusion

[kalm]

Cliff's Notes:

You agree Manafort was "probably co-opted" while he was working in Ukraine?

Yeah I forgot I need to be exceptionally precise with you (and not rhetorical at all)

You get dirty by association when you do business with Russians (and Ukrainians also) - whether its corporate espionage, gov/mil, whatever.

but once again, you aren't using common sense here. You're assuming that Manafort or anyone else connected to the Trump campaign were necessary to the Russians to ensure a Trump presidency

The Russians never NEEDED Manafort - nor anybody else

At least not to do the things they did - not one single strategy the Russians employed during the election required assistance in any form from any American.... the troll farms, the hacking- all of it was an indigenous effort

The Russians curry favor with US politicians - period. Putin wants to be out from underneath sanctions over Crimea, and he wants to have people on the inside in DC to help him with it

Manafort would be the sugar in Trump's ear - just as there is someone who would be the sugar in Hillary's ear

But by all means... let's keep pushing the collusion narrative - it makes real sense to the ignorant and short attention spans


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Manafort made his money before he worked for Trump, no?

So Manafort only matters if they can connect the dots from the Russians to Manafort to the Trump campaign?

(Serious question, not rhetorical).

[CID1990]

Yeah I forgot I need to be exceptionally precise with you (and not rhetorical at all)

You get dirty by association when you do business with Russians (and Ukrainians also) - whether its corporate espionage, gov/mil, whatever.

but once again, you aren't using common sense here. You're assuming that Manafort or anyone else connected to the Trump campaign were necessary to the Russians to ensure a Trump presidency

The Russians never NEEDED Manafort - nor anybody else

At least not to do the things they did - not one single strategy the Russians employed during the election required assistance in any form from any American.... the troll farms, the hacking- all of it was an indigenous effort

The Russians curry favor with US politicians - period. Putin wants to be out from underneath sanctions over Crimea, and he wants to have people on the inside in DC to help him with it

Manafort would be the sugar in Trump's ear - just as there is someone who would be the sugar in Hillary's ear

But by all means... let's keep pushing the collusion narrative - it makes real sense to the ignorant and short attention spans


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Manafort made his money before he worked for Trump, no?

So Manafort only matters if they can connect the dots from the Russians to Manafort to the Trump campaign?

(Serious question, not rhetorical).

That all depends on what you think the Russians needed from him.

the Russians play favor politics with us all the time, they always have - they cultivate contacts and then they try to use them for favorable treatment from the US government. Manafort is no different in that regard

SO what you have to ask yourself is this - did the Russians need Manafort in order to meddle in our elections, or did the Russians need Manafort for what they thought would be his relationship with Trump in the event he became President? One of these two options is common, routine use on the part of the Russians. The other makes zero sense - Manafort has no value added - unless he somehow has troll farm expertise....

[Ibanez]

Cliff's Notes:

You agree Manafort was "probably co-opted" while he was working in Ukraine?

Yeah I forgot I need to be exceptionally precise with you (and not rhetorical at all)

You get dirty by association when you do business with Russians (and Ukrainians also) - whether its corporate espionage, gov/mil, whatever.

but once again, you aren't using common sense here. You're assuming that Manafort or anyone else connected to the Trump campaign were necessary to the Russians to ensure a Trump presidency

The Russians never NEEDED Manafort - nor anybody else

At least not to do the things they did - not one single strategy the Russians employed during the election required assistance in any form from any American.... the troll farms, the hacking- all of it was an indigenous effort

The Russians curry favor with US politicians - period. Putin wants to be out from underneath sanctions over Crimea, and he wants to have people on the inside in DC to help him with it

Manafort would be the sugar in Trump's ear - just as there is someone who would be the sugar in Hillary's ear

But by all means... let's keep pushing the collusion narrative - it makes real sense to the ignorant and short attention spans


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is a message board. Tone can't be conveyed so nobody know's you're asking a rhetorical question.

[CID1990]

Yeah I forgot I need to be exceptionally precise with you (and not rhetorical at all)

You get dirty by association when you do business with Russians (and Ukrainians also) - whether its corporate espionage, gov/mil, whatever.

but once again, you aren't using common sense here. You're assuming that Manafort or anyone else connected to the Trump campaign were necessary to the Russians to ensure a Trump presidency

The Russians never NEEDED Manafort - nor anybody else

At least not to do the things they did - not one single strategy the Russians employed during the election required assistance in any form from any American.... the troll farms, the hacking- all of it was an indigenous effort

The Russians curry favor with US politicians - period. Putin wants to be out from underneath sanctions over Crimea, and he wants to have people on the inside in DC to help him with it

Manafort would be the sugar in Trump's ear - just as there is someone who would be the sugar in Hillary's ear

But by all means... let's keep pushing the collusion narrative - it makes real sense to the ignorant and short attention spans


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is a message board. Tone can't be conveyed so nobody know's you're asking a rhetorical question.

*knows

[Ibanez]

This is a message board. Tone can't be conveyed so nobody know's you're asking a rhetorical question.

*knows

Good rebuttal.

[SeattleGriz]

Reading Strzok did not pass his polygraph test and his loss of security was retroactive?

[SDHornet]

Manafort charges have nothing to do with Russian collusion:

Mueller's response was two-fold. On the issue of collusion, the special counsel, in a motion filed July 6, flatly said, "The government does not intend to present at trial evidence or argument concerning collusion with the Russian government and, accordingly does not oppose the defendant's motion in that respect."

Most of the 32 counts against Manafort in the Virginia case concern alleged crimes that took place long before there was a Trump campaign. Some go back as far as 2006. But four of the counts involve a pair of loans Manafort took out between April 2016 and January 2017. For a few months during that time period, Manafort worked for the Trump campaign.

"The government intends to present evidence that although various Lender D employees identified serious issues with the defendant's loan application, the senior executive at Lender D interceded in the process and approved the loan. During the loan application process, the senior executive expressed interest in working on the Trump campaign, told the defendant about his interest, and eventually secured a position advising the Trump campaign. The senior executive later expressed an interest in serving in the administration of President Trump, but did not secure such a position."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opin ... -and-trump

So basically a shady banker gave out loans to a shady guy in hopes of leveraging it into a position on Trumps campaign...which never materialized.

Maybe someday we'll actually see something related to Trump-Russia collusion from Mueller...maybe...

[houndawg]

According to the FBI.


https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/ ... ies-489693

Yeah that's what I thought - NO

He has links to the GRU - like every businessperson in all of Russia -

if you do business in Russia, you are under constant risk of being co-opted - as Manafort surely was

The last time I drank with a Russian he surely had ties to the GRU

but that's a big difference between being a sworn GRU agent and being on their payroll - and it is being played as some kind of Big Deal by your favorite collusion hopeful outlets that you just linked

I'm just making sure we're on the same page here... your Secret Squirrel dude isn't GRU... he has ties to the GRU... just like every person in Russia who owns more than one house-

And if we find that Manafort had a hand in the destabilization of Ukraine, then maybe it can be inferred that he was recruited to do the same here - that's the connection you are trying to draw... actually, The Hitlantic and Politico are trying to draw it... but anyone who knows anything about the Russians know that a relationship with a GRU connected biz man isn't exactly notable

then again, you married a Russian (thats like being able to see Russia from your backyard) so maybe you have a special perspective that I dont


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How could anybody possibly think that way when the guy volunteered to take the gig without a salary? I swear ...being an ex-cop has made you so cynical..

[Rob Iola]

So Strzok was asked about his text where he stated that residents of Loudoun County Virginia (my old residence) were a bunch of ignorant hillbillies, and whether he considered Trump supporters to be ignorant hillbillies. To his credit he had video evidence backing up this claim:

phpBB [video]

[89Hen]

So Strzok was asked about his text where he stated that residents of Loudoun County Virginia (my old residence) were a bunch of ignorant hillbillies, and whether he considered Trump supporters to be ignorant hillbillies.

Let me guess, he claimed it was written late at night and he doesn't really remember writing it.

[89Hen]

phpBB [video]

[Rob Iola]

phpBB [video]

The "looking innocently with that smile into your wife's eyes" quote at the end was a nice touch...