This is why Religion and Politics don't mix well...

[kalm]

oh...I'm sorry. I thought you were singling out Islam as unique or something. Guess I'll go read the op again.

Actually, as a form of government and a religion rolled into one, it IS unique in that respect

I could suggest some reading by a couple experts (and liberals) if you want to learn something so you can avoid being cliche

Oh...I'm sorry. I thought we were speaking in absolutes and practice here and not theory.

I guess we should tell the Turks they aren't really muslims. And it's a good thing the Divine Right of Kings was never invoked.

"The Ten Commandments are the divinely revealed law."

Roy Moore

Too many other examples to mention.

Let's go with...government and religion are more easily intertwined with Islam...and muslims are bad m'kay?

I can agree with that.

[Baldy]

Actually, as a form of government and a religion rolled into one, it IS unique in that respect

I could suggest some reading by a couple experts (and liberals) if you want to learn something so you can avoid being cliche

Oh...I'm sorry. I thought we were speaking in absolutes and practice here and not theory.

I guess we should tell the Turks they aren't really muslims. And it's a good thing the Divine Right of Kings was never invoked.

"The Ten Commandments are the divinely revealed law."

Roy Moore

Too many other examples to mention.

Let's go with...government and religion are more easily intertwined with Islam...and muslims are bad m'kay?

I can agree with that.

Obscure independent outlier.

You would have an argument if there were some fundie christians who have taken over a community or a town or a city or a state and started implementing some sort of "Bible Law" independent of state and federal law. I would agree that there are some of those freaks who would want that, but it ain't happening.

[kalm]

Oh...I'm sorry. I thought we were speaking in absolutes and practice here and not theory.

I guess we should tell the Turks they aren't really muslims. And it's a good thing the Divine Right of Kings was never invoked.



Too many other examples to mention.

Let's go with...government and religion are more easily intertwined with Islam...and muslims are bad m'kay?

I can agree with that.

Obscure independent outlier.

You would have an argument if there were some fundie christians who have taken over a community or a town or a city or a state and started implementing some sort of "Bible Law" independent of state and federal law. I would agree that there are some of those freaks who would want that, but it ain't happening.

I wasn't claiming there aren't differences between Islam and Christianity but religious-based laws and theocratic rule have been present to varying degrees in both.

To argue otherwise would be like me claiming that Saudi Arabia isn't a theocracy because the Koran doesn't mention traffic ordinances.

(Does that work? Fully acknowledge that I'm teetering on the edge of a Z-like analogy here. )

[Baldy]

Someone has to compromise, and there is no provision for that in Islam. Therefore: Saudi Arabia

You like to point out countries like Saudi Arabia. And, they are pretty fucking shameful.

But, there are also only about 27 million muslims in saudi arabia. That's a pretty fucking small piece.

Take secular muslim countries like Indonesia (230 million) and Bangledesh (162 million).

There are close to 400 million muslims in those two countries.

There are more muslims in these two moderate (and overwhelmingly muslim) countries than in Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Libya, UAE, Qatar, and Yemen. COMBINED.

Bangladesh and its ~160 million muslims have elected women as their heads of state for the past 24 years. Since Bangladesh introduced a parliamentary system... they haven't elected a single man to be their head of state.



There is room for compromise in Islam. It's just that some low information folks think that Islam is the same as Wahhabism. And, it's not. At all.

Our problem is with Wahhabism and not with Islam.

According to lubeboi, when only 48% to 60% of your population wants to stone a woman to death for adultery, you're considered "moderate".



It's also pretty moderate when only 44% of your population believe the death penalty is appropriate for apostates.



It's also "moderate" when only 72% to 82% of your population want to live under Sharia Law.



...oh and even if you're a non-Muslim.



Man, I wish those fundamentalist christians could be as moderate as those secular Muslims.

[CID1990]

Actually, as a form of government and a religion rolled into one, it IS unique in that respect

I could suggest some reading by a couple experts (and liberals) if you want to learn something so you can avoid being cliche

Oh...I'm sorry. I thought we were speaking in absolutes and practice here and not theory.

I guess we should tell the Turks they aren't really muslims. And it's a good thing the Divine Right of Kings was never invoked.

"The Ten Commandments are the divinely revealed law."

Roy Moore

Too many other examples to mention.

Let's go with...government and religion are more easily intertwined with Islam...and muslims are bad m'kay?

I can agree with that.

Wow

I quote a simple fact- backed by both secular scholars as well as Islamic ones- that Islam is a system of governance built into a religion

And you and buttjelly get your panties completely in a hyperbolic wad

You guys are what Clartzzang was referring to about liberal apologists for islam... you just can't let a perceived slight go by

[kalm]

Oh...I'm sorry. I thought we were speaking in absolutes and practice here and not theory.

I guess we should tell the Turks they aren't really muslims. And it's a good thing the Divine Right of Kings was never invoked.



Too many other examples to mention.

Let's go with...government and religion are more easily intertwined with Islam...and muslims are bad m'kay?

I can agree with that.

Wow

I quote a simple fact- backed by both secular scholars as well as Islamic ones- that Islam is a system of governance built into a religion

And you and buttjelly get your panties completely in a hyperbolic wad

You guys are what Clartzzang was referring to about liberal apologists for islam... you just can't let a perceived slight go by

I just replied that it's a bad idea with all faiths. Hence the obligatory "Muslims are bad m'kay" line.

Talk about wadded up panties...

[CID1990]

Wow

I quote a simple fact- backed by both secular scholars as well as Islamic ones- that Islam is a system of governance built into a religion

And you and buttjelly get your panties completely in a hyperbolic wad

You guys are what Clartzzang was referring to about liberal apologists for islam... you just can't let a perceived slight go by

I just replied that it's a bad idea with all faiths. Hence the obligatory "Muslims are bad m'kay" line.

Talk about wadded up panties...

Only one of them has literally millions of adherents saying "government should be run according to our holy book"

there is way too much daylight between islam and christianity for me to bother making those tired cliche caveats about how "all religions do it"

I'll leave the moral relativism to you

[Baldy]

Wow

I quote a simple fact- backed by both secular scholars as well as Islamic ones- that Islam is a system of governance built into a religion

And you and buttjelly get your panties completely in a hyperbolic wad

You guys are what Clartzzang was referring to about liberal apologists for islam... you just can't let a perceived slight go by

I just replied that it's a bad idea with all faiths. Hence the obligatory "Muslims are bad m'kay" line.

Talk about wadded up panties...

Of course it's a bad idea with all faiths. Nobody is arguing otherwise. The Crusades ended 500 years ago and no other faith is waging full ass Jihad, either.

Muslins are bad, but that guy in Alabamastan is just as bad.

[kalm]

I just replied that it's a bad idea with all faiths. Hence the obligatory "Muslims are bad m'kay" line.

Talk about wadded up panties...

Of course it's a bad idea with all faiths. Nobody is arguing otherwise. The Crusades ended 500 years ago and no other faith is waging full ass Jihad, either.

Muslins are bad, but that guy in Alabamastan is just as bad.

So your point (you and CID) is that Islam is worse? As in morally worse? I agree! Glad I'm the only one engaging in moral relativism.

[houndawg]

Yeah! Let's give them guns and money!

Who? Poets?

Gotta isolate the artistic types early - fvckers are nothing but trouble for a country of law and order.

[houndawg]

Oh...I'm sorry. I thought we were speaking in absolutes and practice here and not theory.

I guess we should tell the Turks they aren't really muslims. And it's a good thing the Divine Right of Kings was never invoked.



Too many other examples to mention.

Let's go with...government and religion are more easily intertwined with Islam...and muslims are bad m'kay?

I can agree with that.

Obscure independent outlier.

You would have an argument if there were some fundie christians who have taken over a community or a town or a city or a state and started implementing some sort of "Bible Law" independent of state and federal law. I would agree that there are some of those freaks who would want that, but it ain't happening.

Go for a country drive in Utah.

[Grizalltheway]

Obscure independent outlier.

You would have an argument if there were some fundie christians who have taken over a community or a town or a city or a state and started implementing some sort of "Bible Law" independent of state and federal law. I would agree that there are some of those freaks who would want that, but it ain't happening.

Go for a country drive in Utah.

No shit. Colorado City, specifically.

[CAA Flagship]

Who? Poets?

Gotta isolate the artistic types early - fvckers are nothing but trouble for a country of law and order.

Rhyming motherfuckers.

[CID1990]

Of course it's a bad idea with all faiths. Nobody is arguing otherwise. The Crusades ended 500 years ago and no other faith is waging full ass Jihad, either.

Muslins are bad, but that guy in Alabamastan is just as bad.

So your point (you and CID) is that Islam is worse? As in morally worse? I agree! Glad I'm the only one engaging in moral relativism.

nice straw man (you do that a lot)

I don't give a rat's ass about religious morals. I give a shit about wholesale slaughter on a regional scale, tacitly condoned by millions of people

you keep bringing other religions into this as if the 500 year old blood on their hands compares in any way

you might as well trot out the Roman pantheon or Odin while you're at it

[Chizzang]

I hear you.

What I'm saying is that Islam was actually CREATED as a form of government as much as a religion- I agree that politics and religion don't mix -

Which is why I brought up this example- in Islam the two are inseparable. Your belief that politics and religion don't mix would be met with agreement from majorities in all the world religions except for one.

In other words, Islam - as practiced in its traditional form, is incompatible with liberal democratic principles. Someone has to compromise, and there is no provision for that in Islam. Therefore: Saudi Arabia

I like this ^ post...
And frequently I've noticed you'll hear the phrase when discussing religion "every religion except for one"
and it's always Islam that's the one BAD exception

truly the statement that "Islam is the mother load of bad ideas"
which received such a back-lash from the press will eventually settle into the global psyche as "No sh!t"



And Saudi Arabia (to our everlasting shame) is our complicit partner in forwarding the defense of stupidity

[kalm]

So your point (you and CID) is that Islam is worse? As in morally worse? I agree! Glad I'm the only one engaging in moral relativism.

nice straw man (you do that a lot)

I don't give a rat's ass about religious morals. I give a shit about wholesale slaughter on a regional scale, tacitly condoned by millions of people

you keep bringing other religions into this as if the 500 year old blood on their hands compares in any way

you might as well trot out the Roman pantheon or Odin while you're at it

Hey! I gave an obligatory "Muslims are worse" from the get-go.

You're the one that's dragging this out and drawing liberal misunderstanding and moral relevancy into it.

[kalm]

I hear you.

What I'm saying is that Islam was actually CREATED as a form of government as much as a religion- I agree that politics and religion don't mix -

Which is why I brought up this example- in Islam the two are inseparable. Your belief that politics and religion don't mix would be met with agreement from majorities in all the world religions except for one.

In other words, Islam - as practiced in its traditional form, is incompatible with liberal democratic principles. Someone has to compromise, and there is no provision for that in Islam. Therefore: Saudi Arabia

I like this ^ post...
And frequently I've noticed you'll hear the phrase when discussing religion "every religion except for one"
and it's always Islam that's the one BAD exception

truly the statement that "Islam is the mother load of bad ideas"
which received such a back-lash from the press will eventually settle into the global psyche as "No sh!t"



And Saudi Arabia (to our everlasting shame) is our complicit partner in forwarding the defense of stupidity

"All Americans must recognize that the face of terror is not the true faith -- face of Islam. Islam is a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. It's a faith that has made brothers and sisters of every race. It's a faith based upon love, not hate."

[JohnStOnge]

You know I saw George Mitchell on TV the other day talking about the situation. He was talking about "radical Islam." But what I found interesting is that what he was talking about is, "people who practice Islam as it was practiced in the time of Mohammed." I might not have that quote exactly right but that's the basic content of what he said.

Now, I ask you: Is Islam NOT what Mohammed said it is? If you want to know what "true" Islam is, should you not look at how it was practiced in the time of Mohammed?

[kalm]

You know I saw George Mitchell on TV the other day talking about the situation. He was talking about "radical Islam." But what I found interesting is that what he was talking about is, "people who practice Islam as it was practiced in the time of Mohammed." I might not have that quote exactly right but that's the basic content of what he said.

Now, I ask you: Is Islam NOT what Mohammed said it is? If you want to know what "true" Islam is, should you not look at how it was practiced in the time of Mohammed?

"Some of the comments that have been uttered about Islam do not reflect the sentiments of my government or the sentiments of most Americans. Islam, as practiced by the vast majority of people, is a peaceful religion, a religion that respects others. Ours is a country based upon tolerance and we welcome people of all faiths in America."

[CAA Flagship]

[Chizzang]

You know I saw George Mitchell on TV the other day talking about the situation. He was talking about "radical Islam." But what I found interesting is that what he was talking about is, "people who practice Islam as it was practiced in the time of Mohammed." I might not have that quote exactly right but that's the basic content of what he said.

Now, I ask you: Is Islam NOT what Mohammed said it is? If you want to know what "true" Islam is, should you not look at how it was practiced in the time of Mohammed?

"Some of the comments that have been uttered about Islam do not reflect the sentiments of my government or the sentiments of most Americans. Islam, as practiced by the vast majority of people, is a peaceful religion, a religion that respects others. Ours is a country based upon tolerance and we welcome people of all faiths in America."

I think somebody needs to drop some Islamic poll feedback here
revealing the staggering percentage of global Muslims that agree with Sharia Law



The Koran is not compatible with the modern world...