Let the shit hit the fan...

[D1B]

At the risk of parroting D1B , this isn't court, Joe. Get the fuck over yourself.

Nice, gatw.

[JoltinJoe]

It's not a question of adopting a faith statement. It's a matter of not adopting a moral philosophy that permits the most monstrous wrongs to be perpetrated by a sovereign not answerable to either civil law or God.

Joe, communism is a religion and YT is right. But you know that.

Joe, you have others to apologize to. No one respects or believes you.

What churches were they?

That moral philosophy sure did wonders for women, slaves, Jews, dark skinned people, any non catholics, gays, altar boys and other victims of the catholic church.

Keep on dodgin, Dodger.

You know, you are right. Communism is a religion. I just googled it and I found webpages that say so.

[D1B]

YT,

To see a glaring real time example of the weakness of Dodger Joe's argument, just pick up the paper. Daily we're witness to the some of the worlds worst societies in the Middle East - all very religious nations. They are right now where the catholic church used to be up until quite recently - uttlerly oppressive, murderous, anti science, women-hating murderers. Right now....

Want an American example? Just look at the deep south's racism or the moral philosophy of the republican party. The party of God, that started two wars and is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of soldiers and civilians, and we haven't even seen the endgame yet. Funny, you don't see atheist doing this shit.

On the other hand, you should know that some of the most advanced, tolerant and peaceful nations are those that are most secular - Sweden, Finland, Iceland, France, soon Germany and the rest of Europe.

Soooo, why is the church no longer murdering people anymore? Dodger knows this, but will never admit it...the church is better now because of atheists. Atheists, writers, scientists, deists, founding fathers, industralists, inventors, women, minorities all challenged the moral philosophy of the fucking church and changed it for the better. Sure the catholic church has had to be dragged, kicking and screaming the entire way, as they have the most to lose in terms of wealth and power, but even they are making strides. But many faiths right now are quit cool, like your father's.

Joe's embarrassed by the church. How could he not? All he can do is play the blame game, like a child does. But the truth, as Polson so eloquently put it, is that atheism, has nothing to do with the genocides or starvations deaths he cites. If you are ruthless or bloodthirsty (Stalin, Hitler or the Catholic popes or the priest sodomizing a 7 year old in a church right now) or power hungry - you're gonna fuck over people. Period.


Religion though, by nature, is a contributing factor to genocides, mass murder and utopian economic schemes. Any "moral philsophy" that requires you to belive in the absurd, with all your heart, can also make you justify the most barbaric of human crimes. Combine this with the fact that religion conditions people to bow to authority and you have the underpinnings of tyranny and totalitarianism. Again, the atrocities cited here all originated in the most religious of nations at the time - Russia (Russian Orthodox), Germany (Protestant and Catholic), Italy (Catholic), Spain (Catholic).

Hitler was a catholic. Concordat.

[D1B]

Joe, communism is a religion and YT is right. But you know that.

Joe, you have others to apologize to. No one respects or believes you.

What churches were they?

That moral philosophy sure did wonders for women, slaves, Jews, dark skinned people, any non catholics, gays, altar boys and other victims of the catholic church.

Keep on dodgin, Dodger.

You know, you are right. Communism is a religion. I just googled it and I found webpages that say so.

Keep on Dodgin!

[tdog231]

You know, you are right. Communism is a religion. I just googled it and I found webpages that say so.

Says the guy that posted churchinhistory.org as a source... Looks like the web developer was a retarded monkey on acid.

[JoltinJoe]

Who do you think you're impressing? Grizalltheway? Sky? Seriously, who cares what you or they think?

You want to know what anti-Catholic bigotry is popular on internet chat sites? Because you guys need an outlet for your socially repulsive thoughts.

You can't go golfing with a bunch of business associates and talk like this. People would think you were an idiot, or a bigot, or both. So you congregate on a message board. Priceless. This is precisely why extremists don't seem so extreme on message boards.

Me, I can live my life as I see fit, be well liked and admired, invited to speak to business groups, teach law students.

Even people here think you are "tedious." So why don't you stop it?

[D1B]

Who do you think you're impressing. Grizalltheway? Sky? Seriously, who cares what you or they think?

You want to know what anti-Catholic bigotry is popular on internet chat sites? Because you guys need an outlet for your socially repulsive thoughts.

You can't go golfing with a bunch of business associates and talk like this. People would think you were an idiot, or a bigot, or both. So you congregate on a message board. Priceless. This is precisely what extremists don't seem so extreme on message boards.

Me, I can live my life as I see fit, be well liked and admired, invited to speak to business groups, teach law students.

You be surprised Joe. Catholic priest jokes are popular and hilarious. The catholic church is a joke too, that's why so many people are leaving it - and making fun of it.

Thanks too for further supporting my argument that religion is the root of tyranny. You're right, these "discussions" uncensored, would not be appropriate in most circles. That's the problem, people are conditioned to never ever question god and to a lesser exent the church. Blasphemy!

It's almost impossible, even using the best manners, to have such conversations. What a joke that religion is off limits. Don't think, just do what we say!

I bet people are listening. Shit Fatamountman left your fucking church for a while.

[JoltinJoe]

Who do you think you're impressing. Grizalltheway? Sky? Seriously, who cares what you or they think?

You want to know what anti-Catholic bigotry is popular on internet chat sites? Because you guys need an outlet for your socially repulsive thoughts.

You can't go golfing with a bunch of business associates and talk like this. People would think you were an idiot, or a bigot, or both. So you congregate on a message board. Priceless. This is precisely what extremists don't seem so extreme on message boards.

Me, I can live my life as I see fit, be well liked and admired, invited to speak to business groups, teach law students.

You be surprised Joe. Catholic priest jokes are popular and hilarious. The catholic church is a joke too, that's why so many people are leaving it - and making fun of it.

Thanks too for further supporting my argument that religion is the root of tyranny. You're right, these "discussions" uncensored, would not be appropriate in most circles. That's the problem, people are conditioned to never ever question god and to a lesser exent the church. Blasphemy!

It's almost impossible, even using the best manners, to have such conversations. What a joke that religion is off limits. Don't think, just do what we say!

I bet people are listening. **** Fatamountman left your **** church for a while.

Be honest, though. You would only crack that Catholic priest joke among people you know are not likely to be offended. People you really know.

If you are out playing golf, and you are paired with someone you know more casually, and you are trying to turn him into an asset for your organization (give business, money to you etc.), do yo make that joke??

That's my point. I can always be me anywhere I go. But there is a little side of you that you cannot publicly show.

[Cap'n Cat]

To what? That you think the Soviet Union was "anti-theistic" and not atheistic, and an "anti-theistic" government is itself a theocracy?

No need for a rebuttal. You'll rebut yourself in about 15 years.

ok so you admit defeat victory is mine

edit: seriously, how can you deny the actions of Communist Governments being anti-theistic?

The "I'm smarter than you" argument doesn't work very well when no facts support your position, but apparently that's just the way you roll

You're 16, yt. He is much smarter than you.

[89Hen]

people are conditioned to never ever question god and to a lesser exent the church. Blasphemy!

It's almost impossible, even using the best manners, to have such conversations.

How would you know?

[Cap'n Cat]

The Soviet Union invoked religion in times of crisis. See WWII. Look it up.

Also, don't forget the concept of freedom from religion.

[JoltinJoe]

YT,

To see a glaring real time example of the weakness of Dodger Joe's argument, just pick up the paper. Daily we're witness to the some of the worlds worst societies in the Middle East - all very religious nations. They are right now where the catholic church used to be up until quite recently - uttlerly oppressive, murderous, anti science, women-hating murderers. Right now....

Want an American example? Just look at the deep south's racism or the moral philosophy of the republican party. The party of God, that started two wars and is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of soldiers and civilians, and we haven't even seen the endgame yet. Funny, you don't see atheist doing this ****.

On the other hand, you should know that some of the most advanced, tolerant and peaceful nations are those that are most secular - Sweden, Finland, Iceland, France, soon Germany and the rest of Europe.

Soooo, why is the church no longer murdering people anymore? Dodger knows this, but will never admit it...the church is better now because of atheists. Atheists, writers, scientists, deists, founding fathers, industralists, inventors, women, minorities all challenged the moral philosophy of the **** church and changed it for the better. Sure the catholic church has had to be dragged, kicking and screaming the entire way, as they have the most to lose in terms of wealth and power, but even they are making strides. But many faiths right now are quit cool, like your father's.

Joe's embarrassed by the church. How could he not? All he can do is play the blame game, like a child does. But the truth, as Polson so eloquently put it, is that atheism, has nothing to do with the genocides or starvations deaths he cites. If you are ruthless or bloodthirsty (Stalin, Hitler or the Catholic popes or the priest sodomizing a 7 year old in a church right now) or power hungry - you're gonna **** over people. Period.


Religion though, by nature, is a contributing factor to genocides, mass murder and utopian economic schemes. Any "moral philsophy" that requires you to belive in the absurd, with all your heart, can also make you justify the most barbaric of human crimes. Combine this with the fact that religion conditions people to bow to authority and you have the underpinnings of tyranny and totalitarianism. Again, the atrocities cited here all originated in the most religious of nations at the time - Russia (Russian Orthodox), Germany (Protestant and Catholic), Italy (Catholic), Spain (Catholic).

Hitler was a catholic. Concordat.

What a load.

[D1B]

You be surprised Joe. Catholic priest jokes are popular and hilarious. The catholic church is a joke too, that's why so many people are leaving it - and making fun of it.

Thanks too for further supporting my argument that religion is the root of tyranny. You're right, these "discussions" uncensored, would not be appropriate in most circles. That's the problem, people are conditioned to never ever question god and to a lesser exent the church. Blasphemy!

It's almost impossible, even using the best manners, to have such conversations. What a joke that religion is off limits. Don't think, just do what we say!

I bet people are listening. **** Fatamountman left your **** church for a while.

Be honest, though. You would only crack that Catholic priest joke among people you know are not likely to be offended. People you really know.

If you are out playing golf, and you are paired with someone you know more casually, and you are trying to turn him into an asset for your organization (give business, money to you etc.), do yo make that joke??

That's my point. I can always be me anywhere I go. But there is a little side of you that you cannot publicly show.

Joe, do you defend pedophiles and atrocities in conversations with your clients and friends?

See, aint the internet fun.

[JoltinJoe]

Be honest, though. You would only crack that Catholic priest joke among people you know are not likely to be offended. People you really know.

If you are out playing golf, and you are paired with someone you know more casually, and you are trying to turn him into an asset for your organization (give business, money to you etc.), do yo make that joke??

That's my point. I can always be me anywhere I go. But there is a little side of you that you cannot publicly show.

Joe, do you defend pedophiles and atrocities in conversations with your clients and friends?

See, aint the internet fun.

But I don't do that here. That's just you putting words in my mouth here.

BTW, the adult most likely not to be a child molester today in the United States is a Roman Catholic priest. Even the NY Times reported (albeit in a 93-word article buried in the national news section) that there were merely six reports of abuse against over 40,000 RC priests throughout 2008 and 2009. That's 3 per year against 40,000; or a rate of .0075%.

[AZGrizFan]

On the other hand, you should know that some of the most advanced, tolerant and peaceful nations are those that are most secular - Sweden, Finland, Iceland, France, soon Germany and the rest of Europe.

Those countries might be "advanced, tolerant and peaceful" now, but take a look at this graph and tell me it doesn't concern you?


Spread of Islam in Europe
<1% (Czech Republic, Estonia, Finland, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia)

1%-2% (Belarus, Croatia, Italy, Monaco, Ukraine)

2%-4% (Andorra, Denmark, Luxembourg, Norway, Serbia, Slovenia, Spain)

4%-5% (Germany, Greece, Liechtenstein, Switzerland, United Kingdom)

5%-10% (Austria, Belgium, Netherlands, Sweden)

10%-20% (Bulgaria, Cyprus, France, Montenegro, Russia)

30%-50% (Bosnia and Herzegovina, Macedonia)

70%-90% (Albania)

90%-100% (Kosovo, Turkey)

Looks a little like the black plague, don't it D?

[D1B]

Joe, do you defend pedophiles and atrocities in conversations with your clients and friends?

See, aint the internet fun.

But I don't do that here. That's just you putting words in my mouth here.

BTW, the adult most likely not to be a child molester today in the United States is a Roman Catholic priest. Even the NY Times reported (albeit in a 93-word article buried in the national news section) that there were merely six reports of abuse against over 40,000 RC priests throughout 2008 and 2009. That's 3 per year against 40,000; or a rate of .0075%.

Congrats Joe! Glad that source of objective truth and moral philosophy shit finally kicked in! Took you 2000 years but by golly your priests aint fucking children any more.

You sir get a ....

[D1B]

On the other hand, you should know that some of the most advanced, tolerant and peaceful nations are those that are most secular - Sweden, Finland, Iceland, France, soon Germany and the rest of Europe.

Those countries might be "advanced, tolerant and peaceful" now, but take a look at this graph and tell me it doesn't concern you?


Spread of Islam in Europe
<1% (Czech Republic, Estonia, Finland, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia)

1%-2% (Belarus, Croatia, Italy, Monaco, Ukraine)

2%-4% (Andorra, Denmark, Luxembourg, Norway, Serbia, Slovenia, Spain)

4%-5% (Germany, Greece, Liechtenstein, Switzerland, United Kingdom)

5%-10% (Austria, Belgium, Netherlands, Sweden)

10%-20% (Bulgaria, Cyprus, France, Montenegro, Russia)

30%-50% (Bosnia and Herzegovina, Macedonia)

70%-90% (Albania)

90%-100% (Kosovo, Turkey)

Looks a little like the black plague, don't it D?

It's horrible. Middle East populations are exploding. It's gonna get ugly.

[YoUDeeMan]

You can't go golfing with a bunch of business associates and talk like this. People would think you were an idiot, or a bigot, or both. So you congregate on a message board. Priceless. This is precisely why extremists don't seem so extreme on message boards.

Me, I can live my life as I see fit, be well liked and admired, invited to speak to business groups, teach law students.

If Chritians are so open and forgiving, why can't people speak openly about being atheists? And why can't they question the abuses of the church in an open and honest conversation?

Why would a Christian do business with another Christian and leave a perfectly qualified atheist out of the business loop?

Oh, because Christians are bigots...just like any other group. Not that there is anything wrong with wanting to do business with people of your own kind...it's human nature. But don't try to sell the idea that Christians are less murderous, bigoted, mean spirited, or any different than atheists, Muslims, or a group of 8th grade school girls. And don't try to blame Stalin on atheism...otherwise you need to blame the atomic bomb deaths on Christians. Our Christian President decided American lives were more valuable than those civilians in Japan.

[Grizalltheway]

You can't go golfing with a bunch of business associates and talk like this. People would think you were an idiot, or a bigot, or both. So you congregate on a message board. Priceless. This is precisely why extremists don't seem so extreme on message boards.

Me, I can live my life as I see fit, be well liked and admired, invited to speak to business groups, teach law students.

If Chritians are so open and forgiving, why can't people speak openly about being atheists? And why can't they question the abuses of the church in an open and honest conversation?

Why would a Christian do business with another Christian and leave a perfectly qualified atheist out of the business loop?

Oh, because Christians are bigots...just like any other group. Not that there is anything wrong with wanting to do business with people of your own kind...it's human nature. But don't try to sell the idea that Christians are less murderous, bigoted, mean spirited, or any different than atheists, Muslims, or a group of 8th grade school girls. And don't try to blame Stalin on atheism...otherwise you need to blame the atomic bomb deaths on Christians. Our Christian President decided American lives were more valuable than those civilians in Japan.

[Grizalltheway]

Who do you think you're impressing? Grizalltheway? Sky? Seriously, who cares what you or they think?

You want to know what anti-Catholic bigotry is popular on internet chat sites? Because you guys need an outlet for your socially repulsive thoughts.

You can't go golfing with a bunch of business associates and talk like this. People would think you were an idiot, or a bigot, or both. So you congregate on a message board. Priceless. This is precisely why extremists don't seem so extreme on message boards.

Me, I can live my life as I see fit, be well liked and admired, invited to speak to business groups, teach law students.

Even people here think you are "tedious." So why don't you stop it?

NarcissistJoe, masturbating in front of the mirror again.

[soul man]

I somewhat agree and admit that my definition of Atheist government maybe more along the lines of secular or non-religious, but I don't see how a lack of a statement of faith can lead to mass murder, if government can preserve democracy and religious freedom it doesn't need a faith statement

It's not a question of adopting a faith statement. It's a matter of not adopting a moral philosophy that permits the most monstrous wrongs to be perpetrated by a sovereign not answerable to either civil law or God.

Joe, I understand where you are coming from and I agree with you in this statement (and a whole lot more I might add). However, I believe nations cannot adopt moral philosophies, only individuals can. When a group of people hold the same moral philosophy, perhaps that is the beginning of the church, not a government. Nations, governments, and messageboards are made up of diverse individuals who hold certain things in common--- birth place, political ideals, FCS football. Moral philosophy will have various levels of understanding, commitment, and adherence and may not be the foundation of cohesion.

By the way, Young Terrier, why didn't you tell me you off the porch in the tall grass here playing with the big dogs?

[D1B]

It's not a question of adopting a faith statement. It's a matter of not adopting a moral philosophy that permits the most monstrous wrongs to be perpetrated by a sovereign not answerable to either civil law or God.

Joe, I understand where you are coming from and I agree with you in this statement (and a whole lot more I might add). However, I believe nations cannot adopt moral philosophies, only individuals can. When a group of people hold the same moral philosophy, perhaps that is the beginning of the church, not a government. Nations, governments, and messageboards are made up of diverse individuals who hold certain things in common--- birth place, political ideals, FCS football. Moral philosophy will have various levels of understanding, commitment, and adherence and may not be the foundation of cohesion.

By the way, Young Terrier, why didn't you tell me you off the porch in the tall grass here playing with the big dogs?

Good to see you DJ! YT is a good young man.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

It's not a question of adopting a faith statement. It's a matter of not adopting a moral philosophy that permits the most monstrous wrongs to be perpetrated by a sovereign not answerable to either civil law or God.

Joe, I understand where you are coming from and I agree with you in this statement (and a whole lot more I might add). However, I believe nations cannot adopt moral philosophies, only individuals can. When a group of people hold the same moral philosophy, perhaps that is the beginning of the church, not a government. Nations, governments, and messageboards are made up of diverse individuals who hold certain things in common--- birth place, political ideals, FCS football. Moral philosophy will have various levels of understanding, commitment, and adherence and may not be the foundation of cohesion.

By the way, Young Terrier, why didn't you tell me you off the porch in the tall grass here playing with the big dogs?

Great to see you Soulio!!

BTW, your son has been running, and keeping up with the big dogs for many months now. He is a very bright kid and whatever you've done, you've done it well.

The best thing about the kid...he is original, does not just parrot other things he's heard and not give them a fair amount of thought.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

You can't go golfing with a bunch of business associates and talk like this. People would think you were an idiot, or a bigot, or both. So you congregate on a message board. Priceless. This is precisely why extremists don't seem so extreme on message boards.

Me, I can live my life as I see fit, be well liked and admired, invited to speak to business groups, teach law students.

If Chritians are so open and forgiving, why can't people speak openly about being atheists? And why can't they question the abuses of the church in an open and honest conversation?

Why would a Christian do business with another Christian and leave a perfectly qualified atheist out of the business loop?

Oh, because Christians are bigots...just like any other group. Not that there is anything wrong with wanting to do business with people of your own kind...it's human nature. But don't try to sell the idea that Christians are less murderous, bigoted, mean spirited, or any different than atheists, Muslims, or a group of 8th grade school girls. And don't try to blame Stalin on atheism...otherwise you need to blame the atomic bomb deaths on Christians. Our Christian President decided American lives were more valuable than those civilians in Japan.

Another pair of tits gone!! Nicely put Cluck.

JJ, you can think that we have to hide what we think if you makes you feel somehow more open and superior. You are wrong again about some of us but I couldn't give a shit.

If I'm with some devout 'Catholic, or any other religious type and they open their mouth and start passing judgment about what is going on in the discussion then you can bet the farm that they will have to answer for it.

The reason that many people feel free to speak openly is that I just don't know or see that many people that believe in the fairy tales any more. After a Griz game last year I asked 10 guys (individually) a simple question..."do you believe in God?" ONE guy said he did, he's a great friend and someone I really respect along with the other nine I asked. I thought it would be more 50/50 than it was because 8 or these guys go to church on a semi regular or regular basis. I asked them why they went to church if they don't believe in God and they said they either went for the wife & kids or on top of that because it looks good for them as far as business.

Now that isn't any sort of scientific fact or anything like that. I just wanted to find out who was a true believer because I am not. I talk the same here as I do amongst my friends and have never had any of them get offended and did not even know if they were "religious" or not. That is how little it came up in real world conversations.

The one thing I learned from them is that they don't believe in what they are being sold but that the church is a great marketing tool for them.

[AZGrizFan]

The one thing I learned from them is that they don't believe in what they are being sold but that the church is a great marketing tool for them.

So, all those butt-raped young boys are just a marketing expense.