'Bout Time For A "Religion Sucks" Thread, Ain't It?

[D1B]

I knew you'd like it.

I'm watching a few clips on youtube and I left you another one in the clenz home invasion thread that fucking cracks me up as well.

That one killed me. I sent it to a friend on facebook and she almost shit her pant laughing. She's never seen the show before.

[Chizzang]

[D1B]

Man, I tell you, Joe is about the smartest guy here, IMO. I'd love to shoot the shit with him over a bottle of scotch and a thick joint and talk about Hegel, St. Augustine and Nietzche..... Same with you Cleetz.

[Ibanez]

Utterly impossible by whose standards? Man's? That is your argument? Again, God spoke and it was. I don't think anything can be consider absurd by His standards. Actually, I know nothing can.

If Genesis is such a good read, how about you go read it again and tell me who "created" evil and suffering. God didn't "create" it. He handed it out because man earned it.

Are you serious? I'm being honest, are you serious? God spoke and it was? God didn't speak, speak is a man made word to describe the audible noises emitting from our mouths. Speech is a human and in some cases and animal ability. God is neither Human nor animal. Additionally, the Bible is an interesting story that best describes how to have a population under control by limiting actions and speech. If you want to learn, and I mean LEARN, the history of religion, you can not learn it in your Temple, Mosque, Church or newly renovated warehouse/ megachurch. I charge you to have an open mind, learn about the religions and how they were started, why they were started and HOW THEY WERE SUCCESSFUL. Things like the Plagues still occur today on a small scale and the area where the Great FLood occured just happens to NATURALLY FLOOD at a catastrophic level (thought with modern engineering, this rarely happens). Let me make clear that I am not an athiest. I was raised Catholic. I attended Catholic school and took it upon myself to educate myself on the history of the church and the different religions. Read up on the various councils and you'll see that everything from Jesus' dvinity to Christmas being placed on a pagan holiday to make their conversions easier have nothing to do with some mystical man in the sky that te'Chosen People" and then decides that the only way his all powerful self can save the people he created is to have his own son betrayed and murdered.mpts fathers to murder thier sons, asks men to murder towns (see Jericho) selects a group as people as his Chosen People. I guess the others aren't up to par.

[Ibanez]

I apologize for the long post. You know me, give me a few tall glasses of an oaky, Red Wine and I start blabbering...

[Chizzang]

I apologize for the long post. You know me, give me a few tall glasses of an oaky, Red Wine and I start blabbering...

Yeah, but it was a great post..!!!

[JoltinJoe]

I apologize for the long post. You know me, give me a few tall glasses of an oaky, Red Wine and I start blabbering...

You know, Mark, while I admire your attempt to discern faith, you should look back at some of the conclusions you reached. You say, for example, that you grew up Catholic, but earlier in this thread, you seemed unaware of Catholicism's claim to an "evolving revelation" through Scripture. I think if you had a stong background in Catholicism, you would have already known that. The question of whether, if you accept the Bible, you must accept each story of the Bible independently is something you would have addressed many years ago.

And your statements about the various councils of the Catholic Church, the divinity of Christ was accepted in the First Century, only formalized later, and the scheduling of Christmas to coincide with the pagan winter solstice festival resulted because being a Christian was punishable by death prior to the conversion of Constantine. As such, the Church scheduled the feast so it could be celebrated at a time when the assumption would be that anyone celebrating was observing the solstice.

And finally, as to your apparent claim that the Christian faith was formed for the purposes of political manipulation, there is no doubt that many have used the Church for such purposes throughout history; however, note that the on-going existence of the Catholic Church defies human logic and is quite miraculous. Quite to the contrary, the existence and remarkable growth of Christianity happened despite an active climate of brutal repression by political and secular authority -- to my understanding, the only major faith system that prospered and grew under such active repression by governmental authority.

Its leader was brutally and publicly executed by Roman authorities in a mean-spirited display intended to instill fear. Its handful of original adherents went into fearful hiding thereafter. That should have been the end of the story. In fact, there were many such leaders at that time who were crucified and whose followers disbursed, never to be heard from again.

But for some reason, the story of Jesus survived and thrived. Its handful of adherents became bold -- for some inexplicable reason -- and traveled throughout the Roman world, converting many to the faith. Even as the Roman Empire declared that Christianity was an offense punishable by death, and even as it executed many leaders of the Church, the Church, quite illogically, continued to grow. So much so that by the early 4th Century, the declining Roman Empire, in an attempt to stave off its collapse, adopted Christianity as its offical religion -- confirming the prophecy of the Book of Revelation.

There was a notorious ground in Rome, known as "Nero's Circus," where so many earlier Christians were brutally put to death, including Peter the Apostle, who was crucified, upside down, in 64AD. Today, these grounds where the blood of so many earlier believers was shed, is home to Vatican City, the most visible presence of Christianity in this world.

If man can have irony in his stories, I see no reason why God cannot.

[Ibanez]

I apologize for the long post. You know me, give me a few tall glasses of an oaky, Red Wine and I start blabbering...

You know, Mark, while I admire your attempt to discern faith, you should look back at some of the conclusions you reached. You say, for example, that you grew up Catholic, but earlier in this thread, you seemed unaware of Catholicism's claim to an "evolving revelation" through Scripture. I think if you had a stong background in Catholicism, you would have already known that. The question of whether, if you accept the Bible, you must accept each story of the Bible independently is something you would have addressed many years ago.

JJ, can I call you JJ? JJ, in no way am I a theologian. I am a former Catholic that grew up in a strict religious family that attended Church every Sunday, went to CCD classess in addition to catholic school. I am aware of an "evolving revelation." If I seem that way, keep in mind this is the internet. I'm not going to write down every little tidbit, fact, idea, feeling, etc... that goes along with every statement. If I did, then we all would have novels.

And your statements about the various councils of the Catholic Church, the divinity of Christ was accepted in the First Century, only formalized later, and the scheduling of Christmas to coincide with the pagan winter solstice festival resulted because being a Christian was punishable by death prior to the conversion of Constantine. As such, the Church scheduled the feast so it could be celebrated at a time when the assumption would be that anyone celebrating was observing the solstice.

I am well aware of the conversion of Constantine and the policies regarding Christians in the early years. All one has to research is Nero, and they can have a vivid image of the policies towards Christians.

And finally, as to your apparent claim that the Christian faith was formed for the purposes of political manipulation, there is no doubt that many have used the Church for such purposes throughout history; however, note that the on-going existence of the Catholic Church defies human logic and is quite miraculous. Quite to the contrary, the existence and remarkable growth of Christianity happened despite an active climate of brutal repression by political and secular authority -- to my understanding, the only major faith system that prospered and grew under such active repression by governmental authority.

Its leader was brutally and publicly executed by Roman authorities in a mean-spirited display intended to instill fear. Its handful of original adherents went into fearful hiding thereafter. That should have been the end of the story. In fact, there were many such leaders at that time who were crucified and whose followers disbursed, never to be heard from again.

But for some reason, the story of Jesus survived and thrived. Its handful of adherents became bold -- for some inexplicable reason -- and traveled throughout the Roman world, converting many to the faith. Even as the Roman Empire declared that Christianity was an offense punishable by death, and even as it executed many leaders of the Church, the Church, quite illogically, continued to grow. So much so that by the early 4th Century, the declining Roman Empire, in an attempt to stave off its collapse, adopted Christianity as its offical religion -- confirming the prophecy of the Book of Revelation.

There was a notorious ground in Rome, known as "Nero's Circus," where so many earlier Christians were brutally put to death, including Peter the Apostle, who was crucified, upside down, in 64AD. Today, these grounds where the blood of so many earlier believers was shed, is home to Vatican City, the most visible presence of Christianity in this world.

If man can have irony in his stories, I see no reason why God cannot.

I'll respond when I have more time.

[Ibanez]

I apologize for the long post. You know me, give me a few tall glasses of an oaky, Red Wine and I start blabbering...

You know, Mark, while I admire your attempt to discern faith, you should look back at some of the conclusions you reached. You say, for example, that you grew up Catholic, but earlier in this thread, you seemed unaware of Catholicism's claim to an "evolving revelation" through Scripture. I think if you had a stong background in Catholicism, you would have already known that. The question of whether, if you accept the Bible, you must accept each story of the Bible independently is something you would have addressed many years ago.

And your statements about the various councils of the Catholic Church, the divinity of Christ was accepted in the First Century, only formalized later, and the scheduling of Christmas to coincide with the pagan winter solstice festival resulted because being a Christian was punishable by death prior to the conversion of Constantine. As such, the Church scheduled the feast so it could be celebrated at a time when the assumption would be that anyone celebrating was observing the solstice.

And finally, as to your apparent claim that the Christian faith was formed for the purposes of political manipulation, there is no doubt that many have used the Church for such purposes throughout history; however, note that the on-going existence of the Catholic Church defies human logic and is quite miraculous. Quite to the contrary, the existence and remarkable growth of Christianity happened despite an active climate of brutal repression by political and secular authority -- to my understanding, the only major faith system that prospered and grew under such active repression by governmental authority.

Its leader was brutally and publicly executed by Roman authorities in a mean-spirited display intended to instill fear. Its handful of original adherents went into fearful hiding thereafter. That should have been the end of the story. In fact, there were many such leaders at that time who were crucified and whose followers disbursed, never to be heard from again.

But for some reason, the story of Jesus survived and thrived. Its handful of adherents became bold -- for some inexplicable reason -- and traveled throughout the Roman world, converting many to the faith. Even as the Roman Empire declared that Christianity was an offense punishable by death, and even as it executed many leaders of the Church, the Church, quite illogically, continued to grow. So much so that by the early 4th Century, the declining Roman Empire, in an attempt to stave off its collapse, adopted Christianity as its offical religion -- confirming the prophecy of the Book of Revelation.

There was a notorious ground in Rome, known as "Nero's Circus," where so many earlier Christians were brutally put to death, including Peter the Apostle, who was crucified, upside down, in 64AD. Today, these grounds where the blood of so many earlier believers was shed, is home to Vatican City, the most visible presence of Christianity in this world.

If man can have irony in his stories, I see no reason why God cannot.

Why would an omnipotent diety need to be ironic?

I'm not saying my POV's are 100% the truth, but you cannot deny that there is a reason why Religions discriminated those that weren't aprt of thier group. Hell, the people that came to America searching for "religious freedom" set up thier colonies so that thier religion, and only thier religion was allowed. Religion is a very dangerous drug and many use it to thier advantage in saying what is and isn't right. The books chosen for the bible were chosen for a reason. There is in existence other "gospels" that the Church fathers chose to discard because they either weren't good enough for thier argument or for some other bias. Everything has a bias, there is not 100%, un biased group, plan, action, etc...

Love ya JJ. I can call you JJ right?