Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by CID1990 »

Chizzang wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
I don't think Papadopoulos is going to wind up being much of a player. He's a young guy, a hanger-on who worked for Dr whats his name before moving over to Trump. I doubt very seriously he enjoyed the amount of trust from the Trump camp to be made the cutout for the Russians.

Once again there's a lot of smoke, with the usual hopeful hoopla from the media, but very little substance.

I've also seen MANY lying to fed investigators indictments, and this one is a but unique in that their "should have known" element of the charge is quite a reach

The guy the Trump camp needs to worry about isnt this guy or Manafort, but that third guy they indicted. He was high up, and had much longer access to the inner circle than Manafort.
When should I go grab my pitchfork..?

:lol:

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Wait until we know who you should be chasing with it

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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by BDKJMU »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
GannonFan wrote:So right now the guy indicted is the guy that was on the campaign for about 2-3 months
He was on the campaign for 6 months. (March to August). Longer than Pence, for example. But, the attempt to minimize his roll on the campaign is noted. ;)
Neither of you is right. March to Aug is 5 months. Manafort joined the campaign March 29. Resigned Aug 19. So it was actually closer to 4 1/2 months..
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by Ibanez »

BDKJMU wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:
He was on the campaign for 6 months. (March to August). Longer than Pence, for example. But, the attempt to minimize his roll on the campaign is noted. ;)
Neither of you is right. March to Aug is 5 months. Manafort joined the campaign March 29. Resigned Aug 19. So it was actually closer to 4 1/2 months..
does it really matter if it was 5 months or 6?
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by CID1990 »

BDKJMU wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:
He was on the campaign for 6 months. (March to August). Longer than Pence, for example. But, the attempt to minimize his roll on the campaign is noted. ;)
Neither of you is right. March to Aug is 5 months. Manafort joined the campaign March 29. Resigned Aug 19. So it was actually closer to 4 1/2 months..
*are
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by Pwns »

Nancy Pelosi calling for a "real" independent investigation on Twitter. Looks like she sees the writing on the wall. :nod:
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by BDKJMU »

Ibanez wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:
Neither of you is right. March to Aug is 5 months. Manafort joined the campaign March 29. Resigned Aug 19. So it was actually closer to 4 1/2 months..
does it really matter if it was 5 months or 6?
No, but if someone is going to bother to correct someone else with the amount of months it was, they should at least get it correct.
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Prosecutors Consider Bringing Charges in DNC Hacking Case
At least six Russian government officials are identified as part of ongoing investigation

The Justice Department has identified more than six members of the Russian government involved in hacking the Democratic National Committee’s computers and swiping sensitive information that became public during the 2016 presidential election, according to people familiar with the investigation.

Prosecutors and agents have assembled evidence to charge the Russian officials and could bring a case next year, these people said. Discussions about the case are in the early stages, they said.

If filed, the case would provide the clearest picture yet of the actors behind the DNC intrusion. U.S. intelligence agencies have attributed the attack to Russian intelligence services, but haven't provided detailed information about how they concluded those services were responsible, or any details about the individuals allegedly involved.

The high-profile hack of the DNC’s computers played a central role in the U.S. intelligence community’s assessment in January that “Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the U.S. presidential election.” Mr. Putin and the Russian government have denied meddling in the U.S. election.

Thousands of the DNC’s emails and other data, as well as emails from the personal account of John Podesta, who served as campaign chairman to 2016 Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton, were made public by WikiLeaks last year.

The pinpointing of particular Russian military and intelligence hackers highlights the exhaustive nature of the government’s probe. It also suggests the eagerness of some federal prosecutors and Federal Bureau of Investigation agents to file charges against those responsible, even if the result is naming the alleged perpetrators publicly and making it difficult for them to travel, rather than incarcerating them. Arresting Russian operatives is highly unlikely, people familiar with the probe said.

People familiar with the investigation drew the parallel to the Justice Department’s decision in March to charge two Russian operatives and two others with hacking into Yahoo’s computers starting in 2014 and pilfering information about 500 million accounts, one of the largest data breaches in U.S. history. One of the defendants in the Yahoo case, a Canadian national, was arrested and has pleaded not guilty; the other defendants are believed to be in Russia.

Last December, the Democratic administration of then-President Barack Obama imposed sanctions on Russia’s military-intelligence agency, which uses the acronym GRU, and Russia’s Federal Security Service, Russia’s equivalent to the Central Intelligence Agency, in response to the DNC and other hacks. It also named several individuals, including one who was later charged in the Yahoo case.
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/prosec ... 1509618203
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by CID1990 »

Skjellyfetti wrote:
Prosecutors Consider Bringing Charges in DNC Hacking Case
At least six Russian government officials are identified as part of ongoing investigation

The Justice Department has identified more than six members of the Russian government involved in hacking the Democratic National Committee’s computers and swiping sensitive information that became public during the 2016 presidential election, according to people familiar with the investigation.

Prosecutors and agents have assembled evidence to charge the Russian officials and could bring a case next year, these people said. Discussions about the case are in the early stages, they said.

If filed, the case would provide the clearest picture yet of the actors behind the DNC intrusion. U.S. intelligence agencies have attributed the attack to Russian intelligence services, but haven't provided detailed information about how they concluded those services were responsible, or any details about the individuals allegedly involved.

The high-profile hack of the DNC’s computers played a central role in the U.S. intelligence community’s assessment in January that “Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the U.S. presidential election.” Mr. Putin and the Russian government have denied meddling in the U.S. election.

Thousands of the DNC’s emails and other data, as well as emails from the personal account of John Podesta, who served as campaign chairman to 2016 Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton, were made public by WikiLeaks last year.

The pinpointing of particular Russian military and intelligence hackers highlights the exhaustive nature of the government’s probe. It also suggests the eagerness of some federal prosecutors and Federal Bureau of Investigation agents to file charges against those responsible, even if the result is naming the alleged perpetrators publicly and making it difficult for them to travel, rather than incarcerating them. Arresting Russian operatives is highly unlikely, people familiar with the probe said.

People familiar with the investigation drew the parallel to the Justice Department’s decision in March to charge two Russian operatives and two others with hacking into Yahoo’s computers starting in 2014 and pilfering information about 500 million accounts, one of the largest data breaches in U.S. history. One of the defendants in the Yahoo case, a Canadian national, was arrested and has pleaded not guilty; the other defendants are believed to be in Russia.

Last December, the Democratic administration of then-President Barack Obama imposed sanctions on Russia’s military-intelligence agency, which uses the acronym GRU, and Russia’s Federal Security Service, Russia’s equivalent to the Central Intelligence Agency, in response to the DNC and other hacks. It also named several individuals, including one who was later charged in the Yahoo case.
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/prosec ... 1509618203
Holy Sh1t the Russians hacked the DNC?


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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Weren't you just recently questioning it? :?
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by CID1990 »

Skjellyfetti wrote:Weren't you just recently questioning it? :?
Of course I was - by mentioning an article claiming it was an inside job

that's what happens when there's little evidence - you get theories

like the theory that Trump's campaign colluded with Russians to throw the election

I'll be the first one to accept that the Russians did what Russians do when we have evidence other than fallacious appeals to authority masquerading as evidence

then we'll be able to theorize why Russia was such a blind spot for so many Democrats




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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by Chizzang »

CID1990 wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:Weren't you just recently questioning it? :?
Of course I was - by mentioning an article claiming it was an inside job

that's what happens when there's little evidence - you get theories

like the theory that Trump's campaign colluded with Russians to throw the election

I'll be the first one to accept that the Russians did what Russians do when we have evidence other than fallacious appeals to authority masquerading as evidence

then we'll be able to theorize why Russia was such a blind spot for so many Democrats
You seem to have lost your sense of humor...

:lol:
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by CID1990 »

Chizzang wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Of course I was - by mentioning an article claiming it was an inside job

that's what happens when there's little evidence - you get theories

like the theory that Trump's campaign colluded with Russians to throw the election

I'll be the first one to accept that the Russians did what Russians do when we have evidence other than fallacious appeals to authority masquerading as evidence

then we'll be able to theorize why Russia was such a blind spot for so many Democrats
You seem to have lost your sense of humor...

:lol:
I got whacked by a good friend and colleague today in an internet debate. She is liberal and she's smarter than me - a much better debater (a masterdebater)

So this is the rhetorical version of me venting my frustrations by abusing small children

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by Ibanez »

CID1990 wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:Weren't you just recently questioning it? :?
Of course I was - by mentioning an article claiming it was an inside job

that's what happens when there's little evidence - you get theories

like the theory that Trump's campaign colluded with Russians to throw the election

I'll be the first one to accept that the Russians did what Russians do when we have evidence other than fallacious appeals to authority masquerading as evidence

then we'll be able to theorize why Russia was such a blind spot for so many Democrats




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Easy answer...
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by Chizzang »

Ibanez wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Of course I was - by mentioning an article claiming it was an inside job

that's what happens when there's little evidence - you get theories

like the theory that Trump's campaign colluded with Russians to throw the election

I'll be the first one to accept that the Russians did what Russians do when we have evidence other than fallacious appeals to authority masquerading as evidence

then we'll be able to theorize why Russia was such a blind spot for so many Democrats




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Easy answer...
"Gov. Romney, I'm glad you recognize al-Qaida is a threat, because a few months ago when you were asked what is the biggest geopolitical group facing America, you said Russia, not al-Qaida," Obama said. "You said Russia. And the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back.
You easily miss objects in your blind spot when you choose to ignore it.
and latest guy running on the right was telling everybody that Russia should be a powerful ally

:coffee:

Tough to figure out what matters... somebody tell me
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by Ibanez »

Chizzang wrote:
Ibanez wrote:Easy answer...



You easily miss objects in your blind spot when you choose to ignore it.
and latest guy running on the right was telling everybody that Russia should be a powerful ally

:coffee:

Tough to figure out what matters... somebody tell me
:lol: We're getting screwed from both sides.
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by houndawg »

CID1990 wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:Weren't you just recently questioning it? :?
Of course I was - by mentioning an article claiming it was an inside job

that's what happens when there's little evidence - you get theories

like the theory that Trump's campaign colluded with Russians to throw the election

I'll be the first one to accept that the Russians did what Russians do when we have evidence other than fallacious appeals to authority masquerading as evidence

then we'll be able to theorize why Russia was such a blind spot for so many Democrats




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irrelevant, everybody interferes in nearly every election on the planet. The issue is money laundering on behalf of the Russian mob.
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by Chizzang »

The bottom line is...
Trump is either suitable to be the President or he is not suitable
If this is a nothing burger - as we're told by the RIGHT - then so be it

An honest man fears no inquiry
A witch hunt that reveals no witches only tarnishes the ambitious attackers

See: Birth Certificate
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by houndawg »

CID1990 wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
You seem to have lost your sense of humor...

:lol:
I got whacked by a good friend and colleague today in an internet debate. She is liberal and she's smarter than me - a much better debater (a masterdebater)

So this is the rhetorical version of me venting my frustrations by abusing small children

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

:tiptoe:

business as usual.
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by houndawg »

Chizzang wrote:The bottom line is...
Trump is either suitable to be the President or he is not suitable
If this is a nothing burger - as we're told by the RIGHT - then so be it

An honest man fears no inquiry
A witch hunt that reveals no witches only tarnishes the ambitious attackers

See: Birth Certificate
Nobody is debating that anymore.
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by houndawg »

Chizzang wrote:
Ibanez wrote:Easy answer...



You easily miss objects in your blind spot when you choose to ignore it.
and latest guy running on the right was telling everybody that Russia should be a powerful ally

:coffee:

Tough to figure out what matters... somebody tell me
"...we see money pouring in from Russia..." :coffee:
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by houndawg »

GannonFan wrote:So right now the guy indicted is the guy that was on the campaign for about 2-3 months and was immediately fired from that campaign when his past (i.e. before this campaign) financial indiscretions came to light and has been known pretty much since then that he was likely to be charged with crimes related to those known indiscrections? Was there any doubt that Manafort was going to be indicted (and Page I guess since he ran stuff for Manafort)? We know Flynn is going to be indicted as well. When is the real news going to come out - either there are people to indict beyond these three who everyone agrees should be indicted, or that Mueller is going to close up shop? Manafort could've been indicted last summer (2016 summer) based on what we knew. When are we going to get to the good stuff in terms of indictments or lack of them?
Whats the hurry? It could take years to get too the bottom of this.. :ohno:

See: Ken Starr :coffee:
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Post by GannonFan »

houndawg wrote:
GannonFan wrote:So right now the guy indicted is the guy that was on the campaign for about 2-3 months and was immediately fired from that campaign when his past (i.e. before this campaign) financial indiscretions came to light and has been known pretty much since then that he was likely to be charged with crimes related to those known indiscrections? Was there any doubt that Manafort was going to be indicted (and Page I guess since he ran stuff for Manafort)? We know Flynn is going to be indicted as well. When is the real news going to come out - either there are people to indict beyond these three who everyone agrees should be indicted, or that Mueller is going to close up shop? Manafort could've been indicted last summer (2016 summer) based on what we knew. When are we going to get to the good stuff in terms of indictments or lack of them?
Whats the hurry? It could take years to get too the bottom of this.. :ohno:

See: Ken Starr :coffee:
Yup, we never seem to learn from past experiences, we keep messing up the same way. We're a stubborn nation that way. :coffee:
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by CID1990 »

Chizzang wrote:
Ibanez wrote:Easy answer...



You easily miss objects in your blind spot when you choose to ignore it.
and latest guy running on the right was telling everybody that Russia should be a powerful ally

:coffee:

Tough to figure out what matters... somebody tell me
They COULD have been - and I have said that too. The ship sailed on that one around 1992.

What we CAN do now is stop creating self inflicted foreign policy wounds when it comes to Russia. We already have a template for how that works (with my fellow Band Company alumni of The Citadel, Randy Bresnik, who passes overhead every 90 minutes on the ISS)
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by Skjellyfetti »

Russia funded Facebook and Twitter investments through Kushner investor

Institutions with close links to Kremlin financed stakes through investor in Trump son-in-law’s venture, leaked files reveal

Two Russian state institutions with close ties to Vladimir Putin funded substantial stakes in Twitter and Facebook through an investor who later acquired an interest in a Jared Kushner venture, leaked documents reveal.

The investments were made through a Russian technology magnate, Yuri Milner, who also holds a stake in a company co-owned by Kushner, Donald Trump’s son-in-law and senior White House adviser.

The discovery is likely to stir concerns over Russian influence in US politics and the role played by social media in last year’s presidential election. It may also raise new questions for the social media companies and for Kushner.

Alexander Vershbow, who was a US ambassador to Russia under George W Bush and to Nato under Bill Clinton, said the Russian state institutions were frequently used as “tools for Putin’s pet political projects”.

Vershbow said the findings were concerning in light of efforts by Moscow to disrupt US democracy and public debate. “There clearly was a wider plan, despite Putin’s protestations to the contrary,” he said.

The investments are detailed in the Paradise Papers, a trove of millions of leaked documents reviewed by the Guardian, the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) and other partners, along with other previously unreported filings.

Facebook and Twitter were not made aware that funding for the investments came from the state-controlled VTB Bank and a financial arm of the state oil and gas firm Gazprom, according to Milner.

The files show that in 2011, VTB funded a $191m investment in Twitter. About the same time, Gazprom Investholding financed an opaque offshore company, which in turn funded a vehicle that held $1bn-worth of Facebook shares.
Milner in 2015 contributed $850,000 from his family trust to a $50m investment in Cadre, a New-York-based company that Kushner co-founded in 2014 with his brother, Joshua, and a friend of theirs from Harvard. The startup, which the Kushners claim is worth $800m, is based around an online marketplace where wealthy financiers can club together to invest in properties.

Cadre has attracted an estimated $133m of venture capital from backers including Peter Thiel, the controversial libertarian billionaire who co-founded PayPal and backed Trump’s campaign for president in 2016.

The company has already caused controversy for Kushner, after he initially failed to detail his stake in Cadre in financial disclosures to the US Office of Government Ethics. Kushner later added Cadre to revised paperwork, saying his stake in the firm was worth up to $25m.

Cadre initially said in a June press release that Milner’s stake in the company was held through his firm DST. A different version of the release on Cadre’s website said, however, that Milner himself was the investor in Cadre. The breakdown of the $50m funding was not made public by Cadre.

Milner said in an interview that he had invested in Cadre based only on the merits of the business. “I just thought it was an attractive opportunity,” he said.

He said he knew Joshua Kushner and had met Jared Kushner once, at a conference in Aspen, Colorado, in autumn 2016. “He was very pleasant and nice, and it was sort of a cocktail-type conversation,” said Milner, adding that politics was not discussed.

Cadre operates from the Puck Building in the Nolita section of Manhattan. The Kushners’ father, Charles, bought the building in the 1980s before being jailed for a string of crimes including 18 counts of tax evasion. The building, a red-brick Romanesque revival, was named after the 19th-century satirical magazine based there. A gilded Puck statue, wearing a top hat and tails, gazes down on staff as they arrive for work.

Mueller’s inquiry is believed to be reviewing Jared Kushner’s finances. Kushner was questioned by US senators in July about his connections to Russia. The closed-door session followed a series of explosive reports, including that Kushner had undisclosed contacts with Sergey Kislyak, then Russia’s ambassador to the US.

In remarks at the White House in July, Kushner said he had “not relied on Russian funds to finance my business activities in the private sector”.

Kushner attended a meeting at Trump Tower in June last year at which Donald Trump Jr was expecting to receive damaging information on Hillary Clinton, their Democratic opponent, which he was told had come from the Russian government. Kushner claimed he knew nothing about the meeting’s purpose before attending and left shortly after it began.

He has also denied reports that following his father-in-law’s election victory, he proposed setting up a secure communication channel between Trump’s team and Moscow to avoid snooping by the US before Trump took office. Kislyak reportedly told his superiors in Moscow, during conversations intercepted by American intelligence, that Kushner had asked for the backchannel during a meeting at Trump Tower last December.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/n ... r-investor
"The unmasking thing was all created by Devin Nunes"
- Richard Burr, (R-NC)
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Re: Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

Post by ∞∞∞ »

^^^It's pretty amazing how time and time again, there's a connection back to the Russian government within the people in this administration...and how time and time they forgot to disclose it.
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