Colin Kaepernick

[YoUDeeMan]

People can be offended and still support his right for free speech.

Why is there confusion about the two issues?

Oh, wait...the main stream media wants to blend everything into OKishness.

Hey, did you get a look at those who actually supported what KKKaepernicus said (versus supporting his right to say it)?

Or they can have a different take than you and support both his right and his message.

Uh...several of those posts said they didn't agree with what he said, but supported his right to say it.

JFC, does anyone read the links they post?

[Ibanez]

Patience, he isnt going to wake up for 45 more mins..................

Somewhere Nathan B.Forest is smiling!!!!!!!!!!

He then dissolved the KKK and try to put distance between the organization and himself because he didn't like what it was becoming. A horrible organization, for sure and i'm not defending him. Just stating a fact.


Also, you're putting a 20th Century/21st Century moral on someone from the 19th Century. In our lens (21st Century) just about every man and woman that came before us is a anti-Semitic, racist, bigoted, misogynistic heathen (blacks and whites included.) You should not (can not?) judge historical figures using your own or societies current standards and ideas. You'll be disappointed and it'll lead to a bias.

[dal4018]

Somewhere Nathan B.Forest is smiling!!!!!!!!!!

He then dissolved the KKK and try to put distance between the organization and himself because he didn't like what it was becoming. A horrible organization, for sure and i'm not defending him. Just stating a fact.


Also, you're putting a 20th Century/21st Century moral on someone from the 19th Century. In our lens (21st Century) just about every man and woman that came before us is a anti-Semitic, racist, bigoted, misogynistic heathen (blacks and whites included.) You should not (can not?) judge historical figures using your own or societies current standards and ideas. You'll be disappointed and it'll lead to a bias.

Yes he put distance between himself and the organization but the organization went on with out him as you can plainly see.Historical figures laid the foundation for how this country is viewed today.The list is needless to say is long and distinguished.I just mentioned one.

[Skjellyfetti]

A horrible organization

How can you judge the 19th century KKK through a 21 century lens?

[YoUDeeMan]

He then dissolved the KKK and try to put distance between the organization and himself because he didn't like what it was becoming. A horrible organization, for sure and i'm not defending him. Just stating a fact.


Also, you're putting a 20th Century/21st Century moral on someone from the 19th Century. In our lens (21st Century) just about every man and woman that came before us is a anti-Semitic, racist, bigoted, misogynistic heathen (blacks and whites included.) You should not (can not?) judge historical figures using your own or societies current standards and ideas. You'll be disappointed and it'll lead to a bias.

Yes he put distance between himself and the organization but the organization went on with out him as you can plainly see.Historical figures laid the foundation for how this country is viewed today.The list is needless to say is long and distinguished.I just mentioned one.

You need access to a better education.

Can you go into town and use the public library, or are you confined to the prison grounds?

[CAA Flagship]

A horrible organization

How can you judge the 19th century KKK through a 21 century lens?

[YoUDeeMan]

How can you judge the 19th century KKK through a 21 century lens?

All that attention to detail in the craftsmanship, and then they go and paint the "C" on backwards.

[Ibanez]

A horrible organization

How can you judge the 19th century KKK through a 21 century lens?

People in the 19th century considered it horrible as well. One of the reasons Forrest quit was because of the ugliness that was becoming common place (and it was hurting his business prospects. C.R.E.A.M.)

[YoUDeeMan]

How can you judge the 19th century KKK through a 21 century lens?

People in the 19th century considered it horrible as well. One of the reasons Forrest quit was because of the ugliness that was becoming common place (and it was hurting his business prospects. C.R.E.A.M.)

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Lmq6RDn5O8[/youtube]

[AZGrizFan]

A horrible organization

How can you judge the 19th century KKK through a 21 century lens?

Why not? We do it with Columbus, De Leon, Pizarro, Cook, and every other explorer of the 14th and 15th centuries....

[Skjellyfetti]

That was my point.

He says we can't judgments of prior centuries by modern standards. And, also says that the KKK was a bad organization then. Just curious.



And, also... people that defend their heroes with the "you can't judge them through a modern lens" - also, should probably refrain from judging them too positively. The Lost Cause Myth created a small cult surrounding Confederate generals and statesmen.

If you can't judge them too negatively... you also have to refrain from judging thing too negatively.

[kalm]

How can you judge the 19th century KKK through a 21 century lens?

Why not? We do it with Columbus, De Leon, Pizarro, Cook, and every other explorer of the 14th and 15th centuries....

But they're also being judged against the more peaceful civilizations they rained hell on.

Yeah it was brutal, but not raping little girls and killing an entire tribe brutal.

[AZGrizFan]

Doesn't change the fact that early explorers did NOTHING out of the ordinary doe their time. Perfectly accepted and acceptable. NOW we think it's heinous, but NOW we think slavery is heinous as well....just need to quit rewriting history through a guilt lense.


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[kalm]

Doesn't change the fact that early explorers did NOTHING out of the ordinary doe their time. Perfectly accepted and acceptable. NOW we think it's heinous, but NOW we think slavery is heinous as well....just need to quit rewriting history through a guilt lense.


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You do know that many of the accounts of Columbus's brutality came from a priest who was traveling with him at the time right?

But I'm sure he was writing through a 21st century guilt lens.

[Ibanez]

That was my point.

He says we can't judgments of prior centuries by modern standards. And, also says that the KKK was a bad organization then. Just curious.



And, also... people that defend their heroes with the "you can't judge them through a modern lens" - also, should probably refrain from judging them too positively. The Lost Cause Myth created a small cult surrounding Confederate generals and statesmen.

If you can't judge them too negatively... you also have to refrain from judging thing too negatively.

I think you and I have discussed the Lost Cause bs. I can't stand that crap.

I may not have explained myself clearly, that happens. I'm not necessarily going to call someone from 1866 or 866 an evil person or something because of my standards. Those people are products of their eras. I'm not going to call them dumb and ignorant because they believed in something we now know to false (spirituality vs science).

And who am I to judge someone? I feel, from a historical perspective, I should try to understand the individual in their element and time instead of mine.

I certainly don't defend Forrest. But I understand where he was coming from and his motivations. Are Washington or Jefferson evil men because they owned slaves?

[Bronco]

So is CK turning Muzzie not relevant to his new behavior? I had lunch the last two days and when the subject came up nobody had heard that....Media not mentioning it? I've only see it on this thread.
I think it's relevant...muzzies and BLM folks have a lot in common

[CID1990]

That was my point.

He says we can't judgments of prior centuries by modern standards. And, also says that the KKK was a bad organization then. Just curious.



And, also... people that defend their heroes with the "you can't judge them through a modern lens" - also, should probably refrain from judging them too positively. The Lost Cause Myth created a small cult surrounding Confederate generals and statesmen.

If you can't judge them too negatively... you also have to refrain from judging thing too negatively.

Once again you take a myopic view of what someone has said and then try to apply it to a wide range of situations it doesnt apply to.

The KKK was never an admirable organization.

But the idea that one race is superior to another has only been repugnant to a plurality of people for the last 100 years or so. That it was once a widely held view across most societies in the world was a function of unchallenged ignorance.

Too many people conflate that ignorance with evil. One day in the distant future society will almost certainly view some of our own "modern" views in the same way, and it will largely be a function of the social and political direction we take. For example, it is not much of a stretch to think that some time in the future we will be viewed as "bad" for still killing animals well after we had the tech and ability to feed ourselves without doing so.




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[YoUDeeMan]

But the idea that one race is superior to another has only been repugnant to a plurality of people for the last 100 years or so.

Plenty of people, probably still a plurality, still think some races are superior at certain things...we just aren't allowed to talk about it anymore.

[CAA Flagship]

You do know that many of the accounts of Columbus's brutality came from a priest who was traveling with him at the time right?

But I'm sure he was writing through a 21st century guilt lens.

So you trust a priest?

[Ibanez]

So is CK turning Muzzie not relevant to his new behavior? I had lunch the last two days and when the subject came up nobody had heard that....Media not mentioning it? I've only see it on this thread.
I think it's relevant...muzzies and BLM folks have a lot in common

It's been all over CNN, MSNBC, Fox, ABC, etc.... You must not be paying attention.


I've thought about this and come to this conclusion: He's an American and he has every right to protest. You may not agree with the manner in which he is doing so, but that doesn't mean he's wrong. He's protesting an injustice he see's. If you look it at it this way, he's honoring America by exercising his freedom to peacefully protest.

So, you don't like his protest? Why do you hate America? Why is your freedom of speech different than his?

[Ibanez]

That was my point.

He says we can't judgments of prior centuries by modern standards. And, also says that the KKK was a bad organization then. Just curious.



And, also... people that defend their heroes with the "you can't judge them through a modern lens" - also, should probably refrain from judging them too positively. The Lost Cause Myth created a small cult surrounding Confederate generals and statesmen.

If you can't judge them too negatively... you also have to refrain from judging thing too negatively.

Once again you take a myopic view of what someone has said and then try to apply it to a wide range of situations it doesnt apply to.

The KKK was never an admirable organization.

But the idea that one race is superior to another has only been repugnant to a plurality of people for the last 100 years or so. That it was once a widely held view across most societies in the world was a function of unchallenged ignorance.

Too many people conflate that ignorance with evil. One day in the distant future society will almost certainly view some of our own "modern" views in the same way, and it will largely be a function of the social and political direction we take. For example, it is not much of a stretch to think that some time in the future we will be viewed as "bad" for still killing animals well after we had the tech and ability to feed ourselves without doing so.




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I'm sure people in the 20th Century will be judged for microaggressions and the lack of safe spaces.

[CAA Flagship]

I've thought about this and come to this conclusion: He's an American and he has every right to protest.

Agree

You may not agree with the manner in which he is doing so, but that doesn't mean he's wrong.

The point IS the manner in which he is doing so.

He's protesting an injustice he see's. If you look it at it this way, he's honoring America by exercising his freedom to peacefully protest.

Da fuq?????

So, you don't like his protest? Why do you hate America? Why is your freedom of speech different than his?

It's not. But if I went to the funeral of one of his loved ones, dressed in a clown suit, would he not be offended?

[89Hen]

So I had a strange thought on this today. We all agree that an American burning an American flag is actually symbolic of our freedom to do so. We probably all wish nobody would actually do it though. But if nobody actually burned an American flag, it would be a very empty symbol.

[kalm]

So I had a strange thought on this today. We all agree that an American burning an American flag is actually symbolic of our freedom to do so. We probably all wish nobody would actually do it though. But if nobody actually burned an American flag, it would be a very empty symbol.

I think it would still have meaning. But I do know Flaggy needs to ponder this.

[CAA Flagship]

So I had a strange thought on this today. We all agree that an American burning an American flag is actually symbolic of our freedom to do so. We probably all wish nobody would actually do it though. But if nobody actually burned an American flag, it would be a very empty symbol.

I see what you are saying, but would that mean that anything that is not protested is empty?