Official CS.com Pelosi Political Death Watch Thread

[native]

...Likewise.

If I have made mistakes in my posts which requires correction, please give me the opportunity to do so.

Did I answer your previous question?

[slycat]

Sorry, not to diminish what McCain nor any other POW experienced at the hands of torturous interrogaters, let's not confuse their experience with "sacrificing for my freedom"....my freedom was bestowed upon me the day I was born, not earned by fighting a police action, advising, whatever in Vietnam....had my or any other American's freedom been dependent on the outcome of the Vietnam war, we probably wouldn't have the luxury of arguing this topic on an unfiltered message board......

Well crafted post, Appy, but as you know, freedom isn't free and cannot be maintaned without sacrfice.

Whether or not the particular sacrifice is or is not on your list of aproved sacrifices, the value of the willingness to sacrifice and the effort to maintain the faith under extreme duress is priceless. Unfortunately, it takes thousands and thousands of such sacrifices, even though some may, in hindsight, be misdirected.

My family members who spent years in communist prison camps in SE Asia may disagree with your characterization of our efforts there.

But it can also be put at risk with unnecessary actions such as Vietnam and Iraq. This is why I will never support wars of these kind. I hope our troops are ok but hate that we had to out them there for no reason.

[Appaholic]

Sorry, not to diminish what McCain nor any other POW experienced at the hands of torturous interrogaters, let's not confuse their experience with "sacrificing for my freedom"....my freedom was bestowed upon me the day I was born, not earned by fighting a police action, advising, whatever in Vietnam....had my or any other American's freedom been dependent on the outcome of the Vietnam war, we probably wouldn't have the luxury of arguing this topic on an unfiltered message board......

Well crafted post, Appy, but as you know, freedom isn't free and cannot be maintaned without sacrfice.

Whether or not the particular sacrifice is or is not on your list of aproved sacrifices, the value of the willingness to sacrifice and the effort to maintain the faith under extreme duress is priceless. Unfortunately, it takes thousands and thousands of such sacrifices, even though some may, in hindsight, be misdirected.

My family members who spent years in communist prison camps in SE Asia may disagree with your characterization of our efforts there.

As well they should given their experiences....no one likes to be told their efforts were in vain.....and freedom isn't free, but I'm finding more serious threats to our freedoms from our own shores, not those in SE Asia, Middle East, etc.....I admire their sacrifice, however misguided it may have been after the fact, but let's get some levity and clarity on what they were truly sacrificing for, not the company line sold as a bill of goods wrapped in the American flag.....

[Appaholic]

Well crafted post, Appy, but as you know, freedom isn't free and cannot be maintaned without sacrfice.

Whether or not the particular sacrifice is or is not on your list of aproved sacrifices, the value of the willingness to sacrifice and the effort to maintain the faith under extreme duress is priceless. Unfortunately, it takes thousands and thousands of such sacrifices, even though some may, in hindsight, be misdirected.

My family members who spent years in communist prison camps in SE Asia may disagree with your characterization of our efforts there.

But it can also be put at risk with unnecessary actions such as Vietnam and Iraq. This is why I will never support wars of these kind. I hope our troops are ok but hate that we had to out them there for no reason.

Bingo....thanks Slycat, you've said a heluva alot better and with more tact what my original point was.....

[CID1990]

Torture doesn't work that well anyway. Should be banned.

1. Agreed. Not taking prisoners works much better.

2. It is banned.

[Appaholic]

Torture doesn't work that well anyway. Should be banned.

1. Agreed. Not taking prisoners works much better.

2. It is banned.

Agree....

[native]

...But it can also be put at risk with unnecessary actions such as Vietnam and Iraq. This is why I will never support wars of these kind. I hope our troops are ok but hate that we had to out them there for no reason.

Good point. It is very hard to properly decide when and how to engage.

However, I disagree with your conclusion on Vietnam, and it is too early to make a judgement on Iraq.

It is clear from the post war horrors against innocent civilians in Cambodia and to a lesser extent in Laos and Vietnam that the Domino Theory was valid. Before you claim that they were caused by the U.S., Ho Chi Minh murdered a few thousands of his own long before Johnson's escalation of the war.

Isolationism didn't work after WWI. Korea, where we successfully protected a relatvely free regime, can be considered a success. Korea is the closest equivalent to Vietnam.

[Appaholic]

Democrats back Pelosi amid waterboarding controversy

One of Pelosi's closest allies in the House, Connecticut Democrat John Larson, acknowledged to CNN that the speaker's news conference last week could have been better, but insisted there hasn't been any fallout among Democrats.

"Perhaps it wasn't one of her best press conferences. But certainly everyone in this caucus stands behind her to be the lead in our caucus. I don't know if it could have been done better or not, but our caucus is entirely behind her, " Larson said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/05 ... pstoryview

Transalation: Of course we are backing our Speaker.....from afar......until a new Speaker emerges....

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Democrats back Pelosi amid waterboarding controversy

One of Pelosi's closest allies in the House, Connecticut Democrat John Larson, acknowledged to CNN that the speaker's news conference last week could have been better, but insisted there hasn't been any fallout among Democrats.

"Perhaps it wasn't one of her best press conferences. But certainly everyone in this caucus stands behind her to be the lead in our caucus. I don't know if it could have been done better or not, but our caucus is entirely behind her, " Larson said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/05 ... pstoryview

Transalation: Of course we are backing our Speaker.....from afar......until a new Speaker emerges....

not happening... she'll almost certainly ride this out... the GOP will continue to try and keep the story alive... but its salience with most voters is almost nil.

[Appaholic]

Democrats back Pelosi amid waterboarding controversy

One of Pelosi's closest allies in the House, Connecticut Democrat John Larson, acknowledged to CNN that the speaker's news conference last week could have been better, but insisted there hasn't been any fallout among Democrats.

"Perhaps it wasn't one of her best press conferences. But certainly everyone in this caucus stands behind her to be the lead in our caucus. I don't know if it could have been done better or not, but our caucus is entirely behind her, " Larson said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/05 ... pstoryview

Transalation: Of course we are backing our Speaker.....from afar......until a new Speaker emerges....

not happening... she'll almost certainly ride this out... the GOP will continue to try and keep the story alive... but its salience with most voters is almost nil.

Probably so.....but hopefully it undermines her credibility with the average voter......wishful thinking I know....

[TwinTownBisonFan]

not happening... she'll almost certainly ride this out... the GOP will continue to try and keep the story alive... but its salience with most voters is almost nil.

Probably so.....but hopefully it undermines her credibility with the average voter......wishful thinking I know....

average voter doesn't know who she is... and many who do know... dont care.

i've polled on Nancy in both 06 and 08... her name ID in the two districts i was in was something like 35% at it's highest... and most of that was among Dems and hardcore GOP

swing voters dont know her well, nor do they care...

[native]

SHE'S DONE! She doesn't even know the truth anymore.

...and she obviously "couldn't handle the truth" in the first place!

[Appaholic]

Probably so.....but hopefully it undermines her credibility with the average voter......wishful thinking I know....

average voter doesn't know who she is... and many who do know... dont care.

i've polled on Nancy in both 06 and 08... her name ID in the two districts i was in was something like 35% at it's highest... and most of that was among Dems and hardcore GOP

swing voters dont know her well, nor do they care...

Agree.......she's known where she needs to be - her district....but, as we saw with Lott, she can be removed from the Speaker's position. But, I do not have faith in either political party investigating her claims for fear of what they may uncover...

[native]

...lemme clue you conks on something you aren't thinking about... but should be... you think things are tough with nancy in charge??? Steny is the 'ol boys network... Steny and Rahm are best buddies, and they approach their politics with the same vigor... you'll go from bad, to your worst nightmare with Hoyer.

Hey TC! Why do you think fellow Marylander Michael Steel had nice things to say about Steny this past weekend on Meet the Press?

[travelinman67]

Probably so.....but hopefully it undermines her credibility with the average voter......wishful thinking I know....

average voter doesn't know who she is... and many who do know... dont care.

i've polled on Nancy in both 06 and 08... her name ID in the two districts i was in was something like 35% at it's highest... and most of that was among Dems and hardcore GOP

swing voters dont know her well, nor do they care...

And what were Trent Lott's name ID numbers in those districts when his train crashed?

TTBF...you WISH she stays in only because it provides party continuity and strength to the party you support.

Pelosi is the single worst House leader of the past century, yet Dems like yourself don't have the courage to step up and put her out to pasture.

Just try and imagine for a moment what the House would be like with Sten Hoyer at the helm rather than Pelosi...

...Hoyer is a dyed-in-the-wool left wing Dem, has the money connections, and has paid his dues.

Replace Pelosi with Hoyer, then offer Reid a vacation cruise package off the coast of Somalia.

[Cap'n Cat]

McCain was one stupid motherfucker for staying in those prisons. Dumb motherfucker coulda got out like dozens and dozens of other captured airmen/soldiers. Give up some bogus shit, walk out.

No, the dumbass stayed for some sort of archaic, John Wayne-ish "pride" thing that did nothing but get him and the rest of the dimwitted old guard captive lemmings a couple thousand more beatings and a couple thousand more days in the Vietnamese toilet.

Dumb motherfucker. How could anyone that stupid be elected to public office?

Hero? Fuck that. Guy shoulda been shot when he got back.

[Cap'n Cat]

...But it can also be put at risk with unnecessary actions such as Vietnam and Iraq. This is why I will never support wars of these kind. I hope our troops are ok but hate that we had to out them there for no reason.

Good point. It is very hard to properly decide when and how to engage.

However, I disagree with your conclusion on Vietnam, and it is too early to make a judgement on Iraq.

It is clear from the post war horrors against innocent civilians in Cambodia and to a lesser extent in Laos and Vietnam that the Domino Theory was valid. Before you claim that they were caused by the U.S., Ho Chi Minh murdered a few thousands of his own long before Johnson's escalation of the war.

Isolationism didn't work after WWI. Korea, where we successfully protected a relatvely free regime, can be considered a success. Korea is the closest equivalent to Vietnam.

Hey, dicknose. Ho Chi Minh begged for help from Roosevelt and was ignored. Ho couldn't figure out why a country with a history of oppression from an overlord, such as we had, would abandon another country finding itself in the same straights. And he was 100% right.

Our war against the North Vietnamese was more than 100% race-based.

Fuck off.

[Cap'n Cat]

average voter doesn't know who she is... and many who do know... dont care.

i've polled on Nancy in both 06 and 08... her name ID in the two districts i was in was something like 35% at it's highest... and most of that was among Dems and hardcore GOP

swing voters dont know her well, nor do they care...

And what were Trent Lott's name ID numbers in those districts when his train crashed?

TTBF...you WISH she stays in only because it provides party continuity and strength to the party you support.

Pelosi is the single worst House leader of the past century, yet Dems like yourself don't have the courage to step up and put her out to pasture.

Just try and imagine for a moment what the House would be like with Sten Hoyer at the helm rather than Pelosi...

...Hoyer is a dyed-in-the-wool left wing Dem, has the money connections, and has paid his dues.

Replace Pelosi with Hoyer, then offer Reid a vacation cruise package off the coast of Somalia.

Howzabout if'n I offer you a knuckle sandwich, you pompous old turd?

[travelinman67]

And what were Trent Lott's name ID numbers in those districts when his train crashed?

TTBF...you WISH she stays in only because it provides party continuity and strength to the party you support.

Pelosi is the single worst House leader of the past century, yet Dems like yourself don't have the courage to step up and put her out to pasture.

Just try and imagine for a moment what the House would be like with Sten Hoyer at the helm rather than Pelosi...

...Hoyer is a dyed-in-the-wool left wing Dem, has the money connections, and has paid his dues.

Replace Pelosi with Hoyer, then offer Reid a vacation cruise package off the coast of Somalia.

Howzabout if'n I offer you a knuckle sandwich, you pompous old turd?

Speaking of old turds...how're your knees holding up?

[Cap'n Cat]

Howzabout if'n I offer you a knuckle sandwich, you pompous old turd?

Speaking of old turds...how're your knees holding up?

I'm in terrible pain all over. My Lipitor is slowly killing me.

[travelinman67]

Speaking of old turds...how're your knees holding up?

I'm in terrible pain all over. My Lipitor is slowly killing me.

Fuck the meds. All that sh!t makes you live longer...but you'll be miserable the rest of your life with all sorts of drug interactions/side effects.

Go clean. Lose the blood pressure/cholesterol meds...that's just a money maker for the pharmaceutical industry. Replace sodas and sugar drinks with ice water or even unsugared iced tea, eat some fruit with breakfast, limit the heavy dinners to 2-3 per week (just have a snack instead of dinner), and take at least one day a week and work your ass off walking, biking, hiking, heavy yard work, etc.

You'll lose weight, feel better and won't need all the meds...and you can still have beer a few times a week.

Better yet, help the Dems get Nancy thrown out, and you'll be fit as Adonis and live to be 100.

[Ibanez]

WE also got in the war at the behest of the French, who true to thier style, pulled out and we stayed.


On Pelosi, she was aware of it and regardless of her capacity, she had a PROFESSIONAL, MORAL AND ETHICAL obligation to bring this to the attention of the proper authorities. She failed, lied and will go down in flames.

[Cap'n Cat]

I wanna go to one of those clinics in the Ozarks where you're taken off everything and fed fruits and veggies and fiberous grains for three months and tied to a bed so you can't cheat. Start over.

[CID1990]

WE also got in the war at the behest of the French, who true to thier style, pulled out and we stayed.


On Pelosi, she was aware of it and regardless of her capacity, she had a PROFESSIONAL, MORAL AND ETHICAL obligation to bring this to the attention of the proper authorities. She failed, lied and will go down in flames.

Actually, the 'authorities' would have been the White House. In a way, it was the 'authorities' that briefed her on waterboarding. But you are right- if she was so opposed to waterboarding, then she should have voiced her concerns to the Bush administration. Her argument is that it would not have done any good, but that's not the point. At least she would have been on record, and then she would not be having any of these problems. IN FACT, if she had known that the waterboarding issue was going to be a hot topic today, does anyone think she WOULDN'T have protested? That is the one reason I know she is full of shit.

The ironic thing here is that a lot of people are forgetting the general political environment back then. It was 2002. EVERYONE was on board with doing everything we could to prevent another attack. All of Congress had read the intel at that point, and had drawn most of the same conclusions. Nancy Pelosi would be a lot more believable now if she just came out and said, "It was not politically expedient for me to say anything about waterboarding in 2002." At least she would be truthful, and she wouldn't be revealing anything about her character we don't already know. After all, she did say she saw her responsibility to be to win elections for the Democrats at the time.

Politics > Ethics

Seems to be a common formula on both sides of the aisle.

[Ibanez]

If she knew about it and said nothing, then she thought it was ok.