US captures alledged Libyan ringleader of Benghazi attack

[CID1990]

Nobody said anything about Obama.

So answer this question-

Do you think that given their druthers- the Bush admin would have released ANY of the prisoners in Gitmo?

If you want to play the "Bush did it too" game like the rest of the moonbats then be prepared to have to actually use a little bit of intellectual honesty

i know its hard but you can do it

Sorry I thought the two failed states was a reference to Obama.

I'm all for intellectual honesty two. So who made Bush release this guy? How did they do that? Where was the outrage then and where is the outrage now?

Well, there's a difference between releasing a guy without fanfare (who should never have been there in the first place, AMIRITE?)

and trumpeting the release of 5 equally (if not worse) bad guys in return for a soldier whose story nobody bothered to vet properly (that seems to be an ongoing problem with this admin) AND add to that not conferring with Congress to bless the trade

I mean when you continue to piss off people across a broad swath of the political spectrum it tends to draw attention. So the difference in outrage is entirely self inflicted by this current admin- they just cant seem to muster good judgment about anything

but as to your questions about who made the Bush admin release the dude- I'm not even going to glorify that dumb question with a response.

Gitmo was not a political liability to Bush because conservatives were yelling and screaming about it, Kalm.

[kalm]

Sorry I thought the two failed states was a reference to Obama.

I'm all for intellectual honesty two. So who made Bush release this guy? How did they do that? Where was the outrage then and where is the outrage now?

Well, there's a difference between releasing a guy without fanfare (who should never have been there in the first place, AMIRITE?)

and trumpeting the release of 5 equally (if not worse) bad guys in return for a soldier whose story nobody bothered to vet properly (that seems to be an ongoing problem with this admin) AND add to that not conferring with Congress to bless the trade

I mean when you continue to piss off people across a broad swath of the political spectrum it tends to draw attention. So the difference in outrage is entirely self inflicted by this current admin- they just cant seem to muster good judgment about anything

but as to your questions about who made the Bush admin release the dude- I'm not even going to glorify that dumb question with a response.

Gitmo was not a political liability to Bush because conservatives were yelling and screaming about it, Kalm.

Are you dizzy yet?

[dbackjon]

I agree, this one was in pretty bad taste, even for these boards.

consider the source

they all HATE the military and anyone who has served or currently serves

every now and then the true colors peep through- regardless of the behavior they have been shamed into exhibiting for the last 15-20 years.

oh for the good ol days when you could go down to the airport and spit on soldiers coming home

LOL - typical Conk behavior by the three of you - feel free to demonize those that are not gung-ho to kill American Soldiers, and then claim we hate the military and want to spit on soldiers.


Senator Songbird had no problem letting Bergdahl rot with the Taliban. Senator Songbird was notorious for cooperating with the Vietnamese (his fellow POW's gave him the name Songbird because of it).

I support the military - more so than those that claim to support it but have no problem letting them go die for nothing but making themselves money.


The anti-war people are usually the true patriots, not the war-mongers

[CID1990]

consider the source

they all HATE the military and anyone who has served or currently serves

every now and then the true colors peep through- regardless of the behavior they have been shamed into exhibiting for the last 15-20 years.

oh for the good ol days when you could go down to the airport and spit on soldiers coming home

LOL - typical Conk behavior by the three of you - feel free to demonize those that are not gung-ho to kill American Soldiers, and then claim we hate the military and want to spit on soldiers.


Senator Songbird had no problem letting Bergdahl rot with the Taliban. Senator Songbird was notorious for cooperating with the Vietnamese (his fellow POW's gave him the name Songbird because of it).

I support the military - more so than those that claim to support it but have no problem letting them go die for nothing but making themselves money.


The anti-war people are usually the true patriots, not the war-mongers

Liar, liar, pants on fire

you hate the military and it chaps your a$$ to no end that people who are openly non-supportive are pariahs today- you'll "support the troops" but you hate the type of person who serves

(personally I think there is a little too much adoration heaped on the military but nevertheless)

[CID1990]

Well, there's a difference between releasing a guy without fanfare (who should never have been there in the first place, AMIRITE?)

and trumpeting the release of 5 equally (if not worse) bad guys in return for a soldier whose story nobody bothered to vet properly (that seems to be an ongoing problem with this admin) AND add to that not conferring with Congress to bless the trade

I mean when you continue to piss off people across a broad swath of the political spectrum it tends to draw attention. So the difference in outrage is entirely self inflicted by this current admin- they just cant seem to muster good judgment about anything

but as to your questions about who made the Bush admin release the dude- I'm not even going to glorify that dumb question with a response.

Gitmo was not a political liability to Bush because conservatives were yelling and screaming about it, Kalm.

Are you dizzy yet?

Yes the spin in defense of the obama admin lately has definitely been dizzying

but bush

but bush

but bush

but bush

Still waiting for a defense of obama, since after all

he is in charge

ostensibly

[HI54UNI]

consider the source

they all HATE the military and anyone who has served or currently serves

every now and then the true colors peep through- regardless of the behavior they have been shamed into exhibiting for the last 15-20 years.

oh for the good ol days when you could go down to the airport and spit on soldiers coming home

LOL - typical Conk behavior by the three of you - feel free to demonize those that are not gung-ho to kill American Soldiers, and then claim we hate the military and want to spit on soldiers.


Senator Songbird had no problem letting Bergdahl rot with the Taliban. Senator Songbird was notorious for cooperating with the Vietnamese (his fellow POW's gave him the name Songbird because of it).

I support the military - more so than those that claim to support it but have no problem letting them go die for nothing but making themselves money.


The anti-war people are usually the true patriots, not the war-mongers

So do you believe the Swift Boat vets and their stories about John Kerry?

[dbackjon]

LOL - typical Conk behavior by the three of you - feel free to demonize those that are not gung-ho to kill American Soldiers, and then claim we hate the military and want to spit on soldiers.


Senator Songbird had no problem letting Bergdahl rot with the Taliban. Senator Songbird was notorious for cooperating with the Vietnamese (his fellow POW's gave him the name Songbird because of it).

I support the military - more so than those that claim to support it but have no problem letting them go die for nothing but making themselves money.


The anti-war people are usually the true patriots, not the war-mongers

Liar, liar, pants on fire

you hate the military and it chaps your a$$ to no end that people who are openly non-supportive are pariahs today- you'll "support the troops" but you hate the type of person who serves

(personally I think there is a little too much adoration heaped on the military but nevertheless)

You know nothing about my support for people in the military. So bite me (but not too hard, a nibble would be better)

[dbackjon]

LOL - typical Conk behavior by the three of you - feel free to demonize those that are not gung-ho to kill American Soldiers, and then claim we hate the military and want to spit on soldiers.


Senator Songbird had no problem letting Bergdahl rot with the Taliban. Senator Songbird was notorious for cooperating with the Vietnamese (his fellow POW's gave him the name Songbird because of it).

I support the military - more so than those that claim to support it but have no problem letting them go die for nothing but making themselves money.


The anti-war people are usually the true patriots, not the war-mongers

So do you believe the Swift Boat vets and their stories about John Kerry?

Nope

[kalm]

Are you dizzy yet?

Yes the spin in defense of the obama admin lately has definitely been dizzying

but bush

but bush

but bush

but bush

Still waiting for a defense of obama, since after all

he is in charge

ostensibly

So is the defense dizzying or are you still waiting for it:?

As stated in another thread, I don't think Bergdahl was worth swapping for nor have I defended Obama regarding this capture.

But there were more than a few in your camp who were for Bergdahl's release before they were against it. And there's an awful lot of bluster about Obama's inaction regarding Iraq and Syria and an awful of short term memory fail while defending neo con positions.

You know...intellectual honesty and all that...

[CID1990]

Yes the spin in defense of the obama admin lately has definitely been dizzying

but bush

but bush

but bush

but bush

Still waiting for a defense of obama, since after all

he is in charge

ostensibly

So is the defense dizzying or are you still waiting for it:?

As stated in another thread, I don't think Bergdahl was worth swapping for nor have I defended Obama regarding this capture.

But there were more than a few in your camp who were for Bergdahl's release before they were against it. And there's an awful lot of bluster about Obama's inaction regarding Iraq and Syria and an awful of short term memory fail while defending neo con positions.

You know...intellectual honesty and all that...

in MY camp? we leave nobody behind. If we can get the guy, we get him regardless. Like i said- if the WH had done their homework and did this quietly instead of trying to make political hay by feteing this guys nutball parents in the Rose Garden then we would still be hearing some criticisms but it wouldnt be as bad for them

really and truly- i dont like their politics and never have- but this amateur hour is really starting to look bad. id like to see the WH stop the bleeding for just a little bit

and there isnt an "awful lot of bluster"- John McCain and Lindsey Graham are not an awful lot of anything other than hot air. Again- this is a self inflicted wound by the WH- if we had just said nothing about red lines, then we wouldnt look like fools right niw with Putin emboldened and House Saud looking to buy a nuke from the Pakis because for some strange reason (i wonder why) they dont feel quite as secure anymore. Syria is a heck of a lot more about what we DID do (ran our mouths) than what we didnt

maybe some folks should take a deep breath, pause- and consider what the actual gripes are here

[kalm]

So is the defense dizzying or are you still waiting for it:?

As stated in another thread, I don't think Bergdahl was worth swapping for nor have I defended Obama regarding this capture.

But there were more than a few in your camp who were for Bergdahl's release before they were against it. And there's an awful lot of bluster about Obama's inaction regarding Iraq and Syria and an awful of short term memory fail while defending neo con positions.

You know...intellectual honesty and all that...

in MY camp? we leave nobody behind. If we can get the guy, we get him regardless. Like i said- if the WH had done their homework and did this quietly instead of trying to make political hay by feteing this guys nutball parents in the Rose Garden then we would still be hearing some criticisms but it wouldnt be as bad for them

really and truly- i dont like their politics and never have- but this amateur hour is really starting to look bad. id like to see the WH stop the bleeding for just a little bit

and there isnt an "awful lot of bluster"- John McCain and Lindsey Graham are not an awful lot of anything other than hot air. Again- this is a self inflicted wound by the WH- if we had just said nothing about red lines, then we wouldnt look like fools right niw with Putin emboldened and House Saud looking to buy a nuke from the Pakis because for some strange reason (i wonder why) they dont feel quite as secure anymore. Syria is a heck of a lot more about what we DID do (ran our mouths) than what we didnt

maybe some folks should take a deep breath, pause- and consider what the actual gripes are here

Agree completely. Amateur hour started when we invaded the wrong country and declared mission accomplished. It's all been down hill since then.

[Ibanez]

So do you believe the Swift Boat vets and their stories about John Kerry?

Nope

But if John Kerry were republican, you would.

[andy7171]

As stated in another thread, I don't think Bergdahl was worth swapping for nor have I defended Obama regarding this capture.

But there were more than a few in your camp who were for Bergdahl's release before they were against it.

Who wouldn't have been? His platoon was under a gag order. The desertion story came out when Bergdahl's fellow soldiers started talking because he was being hailed as a hero who served honorably. That is the bullshit of this story.

Hey dback, where is this story about being a songbird? Never heard of it.

[CID1990]

As stated in another thread, I don't think Bergdahl was worth swapping for nor have I defended Obama regarding this capture.

But there were more than a few in your camp who were for Bergdahl's release before they were against it.

Who wouldn't have been? His platoon was under a gag order. The desertion story came out when Bergdahl's fellow soldiers started talking because he was being hailed as a hero who served honorably. That is the bullshit of this story.

Hey dback, where is this story about being a songbird? Never heard of it.

Precisely

There was so much fail in that whole operation that one has to think they are trying to look bad- all the way down to sending out lightning rod Susan Rice to tell us all how the guy served honorably

and it isnt over- because now, due to the fact that the guy was originally hailed- there is no way in hell he will ever suffer any consequences for his actions. Watch for some "inappropriate command influence" (that this administration has already been known for) rearing its ugly head to keep Bergdahl off the court martial docket- anybody want to take the bet?

[Skjellyfetti]

Again, this wasn't some top secret information. There was plenty of knowledge that he may have walked off the base well before he was returned.

Cid didn't like the fact that the in-depth profile of him and his disappearance in 2010 because it was done by Rolling Stone.

So, here's a video from Fox News from 2009.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL9P6W9vt6E[/youtube]

The desertion accusations were in the AP, Washington Post, etc. as early as 2009.

[CID1990]

Again, this wasn't some top secret information. There was plenty of knowledge that he may have walked off the base well before he was returned.

Cid didn't like the fact that the in-depth profile of him and his disappearance in 2010 because it was done by Rolling Stone.

So, here's a video from Fox News from 2009.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL9P6W9vt6E[/youtube]

The desertion accusations were in the AP, Washington Post, etc. as early as 2009.

You're losing it, SK but I'll give you a pass since it has been a tough several weeks for the obamabots like you

What exactly are you accusing me of.... not knowing Bergdahl was a deserter earlier? If you would actually read what people write you might post fewer unintentional non-sequiturs

[travelinman67]

So, what your saying, Jellydonut, is that the White House KNOWINGLY released 5 Taliban commanders in trade for a deserter.

This illuminates why the White House intentionally, UNCONSTITUTIONALLY, did not consult Congress (who would have blocked the release).

Bottomline, Obama works for America's enemies.

Thanks for clarifying what Americans already knew.

[Skjellyfetti]

So, what your saying, Jellydonut, is that the White House KNOWINGLY released 5 Taliban commanders in trade for a deserter.

This illuminates why the White House intentionally, UNCONSTITUTIONALLY, did not consult Congress (who would have blocked the release).

Bottomline, Obama works for America's enemies.

Thanks for clarifying what Americans already knew.

No. I'm saying they knowingly released someone that MAY have been a deserter.

There was a lot of support for Bergdahl's release from the right from people that knew he may have been a deserter. THAT'S my point here. The current talking points from the right that noone knew he may have deserted until recently is complete bullshit.

Bergdahl may have been a deserter - and, if so... he's fucked. I hope he's court martialed and suffers for it even more.

But, I do think Bergdahl deserves due process and deserves to defend himself. I don't think we should just leave POWs if we think there's a chance they deserted.

Just my opinion.

[ASUG8]

No. I'm saying they knowingly released someone that MAY have been a deserter.

There was a lot of support for Bergdahl's release from the right from people that knew he may have been a deserter. THAT'S my point here. The current talking points from the right that noone knew he may have deserted until recently is complete bullshit.

Bergdahl may have been a deserter - and, if so... he's fucked. I hope he's court martialed and suffers for it even more.

But, I do think Bergdahl deserves due process and deserves to defend himself. I don't think we should just leave POWs if we think there's a chance they deserted.

Just my opinion.

Oddly, I agree with you. I just think the guys negotiating for us would have been taken to the cleaners in a new car negotiation based on what we got for what we gave.

[CID1990]

The current talking points from the right that noone knew he may have deserted until recently is complete bullshit.

Who is saying that?

Your reply was to my post so I think I was safe in assuming you mean that I have been saying it.

Your take on Bergdahl and mine are pretty much the same- my only beef (and what I have said numerous times) is that the WH created this problem for themselves when they gave the Rose Garden welcome home and then immediately started defending the guy in the face of a lot of contradictory information.

It's like this: Bergdahl has had questions surrounding his disappearance for some time. It should not have taken anyone much digging to think, "hmm... let's get this guy back, but let's do it quietly". The WH still would have taken some heat for the dudes we traded, but I do think it would be much more of a non-story.

The way it was played just made the WH look dumb.

[andy7171]

I don't think anyone is saying we should have left him behind. The problem is the cost to us. I really don't have a problem with the release of the Taliban Dream Team. But its the overwhelming feeling that this wouldn't have been done had Obama consulted with Congress, even a select few. Like it had in the past.
It reminds me of the line of a few good men about duty honor and code. They are just words to Obama and Rice, which is why, I hope, they said them. Not thinking that it would piss people off who do take things like that seriously. I say I hope, because, the alternative might/could/point to treasonous motives. It is a sad state of affairs that you hope the President and his advisors only take things like duty and honor not so seriously.

[Skjellyfetti]

But its the overwhelming feeling that this wouldn't have been done had Obama consulted with Congress, even a select few. Like it had in the past.

From 2010:

The tensions came to a boil in January, when administration officials went to Capitol Hill to brief a handful of senators on the possibility of a prisoner exchange. The meeting, which excluded staffers, took place in a new secure conference room in the Capitol visitor center. According to sources in the briefing, the discussion sparked a sharp exchange between Senators John McCain and John Kerry, both of whom were decorated for their service in Vietnam. McCain, who endured almost six years of captivity as a prisoner of war, threw a fit at the prospect of releasing five Taliban detainees.

"They're the five biggest murderers in world history!" McCain fumed.

Kerry, who supported the transfer, thought that was going a bit far. "John," he said, "the five biggest murderers in the world?"

McCain was furious at the rebuke. "They killed Americans!" he responded. "I suppose Senator Kerry is OK with that?"

McCain reluctantly came around on the prisoner exchange, according to those present at the meeting, but he has continued to speak out against negotiating with the Taliban. Opposition has also come from Sen. Saxby Chambliss, a Republican from Georgia who won election with a vicious smear campaign against former Sen. Max Cleland, a decorated Vietnam veteran who lost three limbs in the war. Chambliss, according to Bowe's father, has insisted that America shouldn't make a prisoner trade for a "deserter."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... print=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CID1990]

But its the overwhelming feeling that this wouldn't have been done had Obama consulted with Congress, even a select few. Like it had in the past.

From 2010:

The tensions came to a boil in January, when administration officials went to Capitol Hill to brief a handful of senators on the possibility of a prisoner exchange. The meeting, which excluded staffers, took place in a new secure conference room in the Capitol visitor center. According to sources in the briefing, the discussion sparked a sharp exchange between Senators John McCain and John Kerry, both of whom were decorated for their service in Vietnam. McCain, who endured almost six years of captivity as a prisoner of war, threw a fit at the prospect of releasing five Taliban detainees.

"They're the five biggest murderers in world history!" McCain fumed.

Kerry, who supported the transfer, thought that was going a bit far. "John," he said, "the five biggest murderers in the world?"

McCain was furious at the rebuke. "They killed Americans!" he responded. "I suppose Senator Kerry is OK with that?"

McCain reluctantly came around on the prisoner exchange, according to those present at the meeting, but he has continued to speak out against negotiating with the Taliban. Opposition has also come from Sen. Saxby Chambliss, a Republican from Georgia who won election with a vicious smear campaign against former Sen. Max Cleland, a decorated Vietnam veteran who lost three limbs in the war. Chambliss, according to Bowe's father, has insisted that America shouldn't make a prisoner trade for a "deserter."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... print=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SK, the people who should be beating their heads against a wall is us

so let's say this loud and clear

CONGRESS SHOT DOWN THE TRADE

CONGRESS SHOT DOWN THE TRADE

CONGRESS SHOT DOWN THE TRADE





That's why the White House did their end run this time around

get out your bifocals and read, son - Andy actually said "like they had done in the past"

edited: the dates were earlier than I posted

[houndawg]

Still not clear why the bedwetters here don't want this guy back and why they think that the 5 muslins won't be avoided like the plague by the rest of the Taliban leadership.

I'd think McCain would be a little more circumspect, having been named Senator Songbird by his former cell mates and all......

[houndawg]

Yes the spin in defense of the obama admin lately has definitely been dizzying

but bush

but bush

but bush

but bush

Still waiting for a defense of obama, since after all

he is in charge

ostensibly

So is the defense dizzying or are you still waiting for it:?

As stated in another thread, I don't think Bergdahl was worth swapping for nor have I defended Obama regarding this capture.

But there were more than a few in your camp who were for Bergdahl's release before they were against it. And there's an awful lot of bluster about Obama's inaction regarding Iraq and Syria and an awful of short term memory fail while defending neo con positions.

You know...intellectual honesty and all that...

Has to be done.