THE RELIGION THREAD

[dbackjon]

I would appreciate that SJ. Thanks.


I've always wonder about it myself. I just don't understand how the Jews could have missed the son of god? They're a fairly religious and intelligent culture. But, whatever...

I know that the Biblical Jesus and Jesus in the Koran are portrayed differently. Check this out if you wanna read about it. It's 22 differences. Dr. Caner, president of Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary put that together. Dr. Caner ((B.A., M.A., M.Div., Th,M., D.Min., Ph.D.) is one of the smartest people and one of the most brilliant minds I've ever met and heard speak. He was raised as the son of a Muslim leader in Turkey. Him and his brother are both deans of seminaries in America now. If you really want to learn about the defense of Christianity, he's the guy you go to.

Interesting link there, Jon

[BigSkyBears]

The greatest single cause in atheism today is Christians. I won't deny that. All I can do as a Christian is go out and discuss these things with people who have questions. It's not my job to connect every single dot for them. It's not my job to prove that I'm right. Too many Christians are caught up in the idea that they have to argue someone to Christ. That's not how it works. How the heck can someone expect a non believer to believe a love story when they go about telling it with hatred in their voice? If I was talking about a girlfriend and trying to convey how great she was but I sounded like I was pissed at her the entire time, would you believe that I truly thought she was great? No, you wouldn't.

Very good point. My dad, who was a minister, firmly believed in the hymn "And We Will Show Them We are Christians by Our Love", and lived his life that way.

As a gay man, the hatred and venom that gets spewed to me by "Christians" is incredible. One reason I have been very turned off by Christianity.

Man, I'm sorry you've been hated and persecuted by Christ's "followers" While I don't agree with your life style I don't hate anyone who is gay. Christ died for EVERYONE - Gay's, drug addicts, prostitutes, hippies, yuppies, the rich, the poor. Everyone!

[JoltinJoe]

Secular humanism is nothing but a Judeo/Christian outlook without a belief in God.

Come up with your own value system, then we'll talk.

Strike three Joe. Sorry. It's obvious you don't know much. Good luck to you.

You don't think secular humanism is the Judeo/Christian morality system without a belief in God?

In fact, I know some secular humanists who, in seeking to put into practice their morality system, wind up working for, and furthering the interests of, Christian charity groups!

[Wedgebuster]

I'm not Joe, but whatever. I don't know the answer to this question right off the bat. I don't know the Jewish and Muslim faiths well enough to answer it. However, I have a friend who is studying the 12 major religions from around the world and our dean is a former Muslim. If I get the chance, I'll ask them to answer that.

What does he consider the 12 major religions?

"I studied 19th Century French Poetry."

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Strike three Joe. Sorry. It's obvious you don't know much. Good luck to you.

You don't think secular humanism is the Judeo/Christian morality system without a belief in God?

In fact, I know some secular humanists who, in seeking to put into practice their morality system, wind up working for, and furthering the interests of, Christian charity groups!

JJ I don't think that you can say that it is a Judeo/Christian morality system that was lifted by secular humanism. Moral codes were apparently been around before Christianity so that doesn't add up. I may have misunderstood what you're saying though.

[JoltinJoe]

You don't think secular humanism is the Judeo/Christian morality system without a belief in God?

In fact, I know some secular humanists who, in seeking to put into practice their morality system, wind up working for, and furthering the interests of, Christian charity groups!

JJ I don't think that you can say that it is a Judeo/Christian morality system that was lifted by secular humanism. Moral codes were apparently been around before Christianity so that doesn't add up. I may have misunderstood what you're saying though.

Maybe. Do you know what loud-mouthed atheist we all know and love works for the YWCA?

[SunCoastBlueHen]

I believe in God. I think "God" is a force of goodness or positive energy that exists somewhere outside the realm of human understanding. I think that, in many ways, organized religion has bastardized what I believe the true concept of "God" to be.

I believe that when I experience "God" through natural beauty and recognizing true human acts of unselfishness and compassion towards other living things that I experience "God" much more than some person sitting in church on Sunday.

That is all I have to say about that.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

JJ I don't think that you can say that it is a Judeo/Christian morality system that was lifted by secular humanism. Moral codes were apparently been around before Christianity so that doesn't add up. I may have misunderstood what you're saying though.

Maybe. Do you know what loud-mouthed atheist we all know and love works for the YWCA?

Nope but I have a hunch now. Maybe he just like helping people no matter what the conveyance and is just able to look past his own aetheisticicity? I love making up words.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I believe in God. I think "God" is a force of goodness or positive energy that exists somewhere outside the realm of human understanding. I think that, in many ways, organized religion has bastardized what I believe the true concept of "God" to be.

I believe that when I experience "God" through natural beauty and recognizing true human acts of unselfishness and compassion towards other living things that I experience "God" much more than some person sitting in church on Sunday.

That is all I have to say about that.

Pretty much exactly what I said to Cleets the other night and I think you're dead on therefore. I did throw some shit in there about beautiful women and just the fact that anything exists being a miracle but you laid out a nice summary.

[SeattleGriz]

I believe in God. I think "God" is a force of goodness or positive energy that exists somewhere outside the realm of human understanding. I think that, in many ways, organized religion has bastardized what I believe the true concept of "God" to be.

I believe that when I experience "God" through natural beauty and recognizing true human acts of unselfishness and compassion towards other living things that I experience "God" much more than some person sitting in church on Sunday.

That is all I have to say about that.

In line with that thinking is the fact that everything pretty much knows right from wrong. By that I mean it is not total chaos and destruction, even amongst wild animals.

Something good has to unite every living organism.

[SuperJon]

I'm not Joe, but whatever. I don't know the answer to this question right off the bat. I don't know the Jewish and Muslim faiths well enough to answer it. However, I have a friend who is studying the 12 major religions from around the world and our dean is a former Muslim. If I get the chance, I'll ask them to answer that.

What does he consider the 12 major religions?

Not 100% sure on all 12 of them. I know it's Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, the Eastern religions (Taoism, etc), and some others.

[D1B]

JJ I don't think that you can say that it is a Judeo/Christian morality system that was lifted by secular humanism. Moral codes were apparently been around before Christianity so that doesn't add up. I may have misunderstood what you're saying though.

Maybe. Do you know what loud-mouthed atheist we all know and love works for the YWCA?

Check your pm.

[D1B]

Bout Jesus being the son of god. I have a 3:30 tee time at Koshkonong Mounds CC. See ya later...

So another prayer to St. Jude for you to break 90 is in order?

Joe, just answer the question. It's simple. What do you know that Jews are missing?

[D1B]

Strike three Joe. Sorry. It's obvious you don't know much. Good luck to you.

You don't think secular humanism is the Judeo/Christian morality system without a belief in God?

In fact, I know some secular humanists who, in seeking to put into practice their morality system, wind up working for, and furthering the interests of, Christian charity groups!

No, not really joe. There are some shared concepts and those that have humanized christianity were borrowed from secularist ethics and all predated christianity. Christianity is a wholly borrowed religion and hardly original.

Funny you bring up christian charity groups and the little good that arises out of religion. This is a relatively recent transition for the church. For eons the catholic church was a brutal organization that traveled the world and wiped out any one in their way. To a lesser degree the protestant churches were racist, witch-burning factories. The transition was not the result of popes or church leaders recognizing their mistakes or discovering the true message of christ or anything noble like that. The church had be forced, dragged kicking and screaming by yes, you guessed it - Atheists, secularists, humanists, scientists, inventors, philosophers, American Founding Fathers, astronomers, brave women and martyrs who challenged the authority of the church and often paid for it with thier lives.

It's crazy, the church is a much better place today because of the secular humanists. And you think a moral life without the fairy tale is impossible!

Joe, a common theme in these threads: You have it ass backwards!

[JoltinJoe]

So another prayer to St. Jude for you to break 90 is in order?

Joe, just answer the question. It's simple. What do you know that Jews are missing?

Why don't you get that this is not a valid question?

[D1B]

Joe, just answer the question. It's simple. What do you know that Jews are missing?

Why don't you get that this is not a valid question?

Poor Joltin Joe...

[JoltinJoe]

Why don't you get that this is not a valid question?

Poor Joltin Joe...

Apart from your presumption (incorrect at that) that someone who holds a religious belief holds some immutable perception that he is right, and all others with a differing belief are wrong -- why is this a valid question?

It's a pointless question that speaks more about your perceptions than it does about mine.

[D1B]

Poor Joltin Joe...

Apart from your presumption (incorrect at that) that someone who holds a religious belief holds some immutable perception that he is right, and all others with a differing belief are wrong -- why is this a valid question?

It's a pointless question that speaks more about your perceptions than it does about mine.

Nice dodge Joe.

So what you're saying is both christianity and judaism are accurate expressions of faith?

[Appaholic]

[Wedgebuster]

[Wedgebuster]

http://www.thebluerepublic.com/modules. ... w_topic=29

[JoltinJoe]

Apart from your presumption (incorrect at that) that someone who holds a religious belief holds some immutable perception that he is right, and all others with a differing belief are wrong -- why is this a valid question?

It's a pointless question that speaks more about your perceptions than it does about mine.

Nice dodge Joe.

So what you're saying is both christianity and judaism are accurate expressions of faith?

That appears to be what you are saying.

[D1B]

Nice dodge Joe.

So what you're saying is both christianity and judaism are accurate expressions of faith?

That appears to be what you are saying.

Nice dodge Joe. You have nothing. Strike four.

[D1B]

Nice dodge Joe.

So what you're saying is both christianity and judaism are accurate expressions of faith?

That appears to be what you are saying.

Scumbag lawyer. Avoiding answering simple questions about his faith. Touts his years of theological study under the giants of philosophy and philosophy, but yet cannot articulate the difference between two of the three religions who believe in the same god. Then cowardly avoids offering his opinons on the critical differences in their respective treatments of a key character in jesus.

Poor Joe. Checkmate, again.

[JoltinJoe]

That appears to be what you are saying.

Scumbag lawyer. Avoiding answering simple questions about his faith. Touts his years of theological study under the giants of philosophy and philosophy, but yet cannot articulate the difference between two of the three religions who believe in the same god. Then cowardly avoids offering his opinons on the critical differences in their respective treatments of a key character in jesus.

Poor Joe. Checkmate, again.

What's the point about having a discussion about the nature of God, if we have no concensus about the existence of God?

Thousands and thousands of years of philosophy -- philosophy which you have claimed to have read -- would establish should God exist, this would necessary imply certain aspects about his nature, which would can then lead to a discussion as to which religious expression is more authentic.

Philosophers and theologaians alike have long concluded that a discussion about the nature of God and the authenticity of religious expression is not possible until one accepts the existence of God.

So your question is not valid, because you do not accept the existence of God. And you would have immediately realized what I was saying if you really had as much familiarity with this subject as you claim. Notice how easily the vitriol flies when the discussion, as usual, gets beyond the limited grasp of the atheist.

As I said, it is you who appears to be saying that all religious expression is equal.