Machinists Union kills Seattle again....

[bobbythekidd]

or land a plane with no power in the Hudson river with no death or serious injurues.....yeah, I'll take the overpaid pilot, you can have the minimum wage pilot....

Thank goodness for unions, eh?

I'm not sure what your argument is. Are you saying that the pilot's union allows slackasses to have job while they literally fall asleep at the wheel; or that unions allow only the most skilled people hold a position that requires the most skilled people.

[AZGrizFan]

Thank goodness for unions, eh?

I'm not sure what your argument is. Are you saying that the pilot's union allows slackasses to have job while they literally fall asleep at the wheel; or that unions allow only the most skilled people hold a position that requires the most skilled people.

He was against them before he was for them.

[houndawg]

Thank goodness for unions, eh?

I'm not sure what your argument is. Are you saying that the pilot's union allows slackasses to have job while they literally fall asleep at the wheel; or that unions allow only the most skilled people hold a position that requires the most skilled people.

Both, evidently, judging by the two examples above.

Just as the UAW seems to be turning out a good product at Ford, but not so much at GM or Chrysler. Looks like the difference is management.

[houndawg]

I'm not sure what your argument is. Are you saying that the pilot's union allows slackasses to have job while they literally fall asleep at the wheel; or that unions allow only the most skilled people hold a position that requires the most skilled people.

He was against them before he was for them.

You just aren't ready yet to understand my nuanced position.

[Appaholic]

or land a plane with no power in the Hudson river with no death or serious injurues.....yeah, I'll take the overpaid pilot, you can have the minimum wage pilot....

Thank goodness for unions, eh?

Yes, because being a union member is what gave the pilot the skill to land the plane....

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- In the first public statement from a pilot of US Airways flight 1549, first officer Jeff Skiles has thanked his union for assisting him in the aftermath of the flight's emergency landing on the Hudson River on Thursday.

"You all need to know that when you are at the weakest, most vulnerable time of your airline career, USAPA will be there to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you," Skiles said in a letter to fellow members of the U.S. Airline Pilots Association. A copy of the letter was obtained by TheStreet.com.

"I have incurred a debt to these people that can never be repaid. I can only say thank you, and tell you that you have made a difference in my life," wrote Skiles, 49, who joined US Airways in 1986.

Skiles handled the takeoff and was at the controls when the birds flew into the engine of the Airbus A320. At that point, he handed the flying off to the captain, Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger. "Your aircraft," said Skiles, according to the cockpit voice recorder.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10458525 ... union.html

typical union member shirking his responsibilities when the going gets tough....

[Col Hogan]

I said management has to get it's own house in order before they start asking for givebacks from the people that actually make the product that provides their absurd bonuses for shuffling paper. You work on the overhead problem before you go after direct labor. Fat before muscle, son.

The "overhead" problem you so eloquently discuss goes all the way to the lowest paid union member on the assembly line, Spanky. Gotta have ONE union guy to put the bolt in, ANOTHER (different union) union guy to put the nut ON the bolt, ANOTHER (again, different union) union guy to twist the bolt, ANOTHER (different) union guy to quality check the previous three steps, etc., etc., etc. A dramatization, to be sure, but in reality, not too far from the actual truth.

The BLOAT, WASTE and FRAUD happens at the GROUND level. I've witnessed it in the construction industry, the power generation industry, the shipyard union workers. EVERYWHERE. God FORBID one man do something that belongs to a DIFFERENT union...might cost some fat, overpaid, underworked UNION guy to lose his **** job. You (a good union mouthpiece) can continue to deny reality all you want, but there's a REASON union membership is declining. America is waking up.

Apparently, that does NOT include you, dawg. Get with the program....there's still time.

Why do the railroad unions demand that every train still has a fireman??? A freakin' fireman??? There hasn't been a coal fired commercial train in decades, but to save those jobs we still pay for firemen on the trains...

[houndawg]

The "overhead" problem you so eloquently discuss goes all the way to the lowest paid union member on the assembly line, Spanky. Gotta have ONE union guy to put the bolt in, ANOTHER (different union) union guy to put the nut ON the bolt, ANOTHER (again, different union) union guy to twist the bolt, ANOTHER (different) union guy to quality check the previous three steps, etc., etc., etc. A dramatization, to be sure, but in reality, not too far from the actual truth.

The BLOAT, WASTE and FRAUD happens at the GROUND level. I've witnessed it in the construction industry, the power generation industry, the shipyard union workers. EVERYWHERE. God FORBID one man do something that belongs to a DIFFERENT union...might cost some fat, overpaid, underworked UNION guy to lose his **** job. You (a good union mouthpiece) can continue to deny reality all you want, but there's a REASON union membership is declining. America is waking up.

Apparently, that does NOT include you, dawg. Get with the program....there's still time.

Why do the railroad unions demand that every train still has a fireman??? A freakin' fireman??? There hasn't been a coal fired commercial train in decades, but to save those jobs we still pay for firemen on the trains...

I don't know why trains even have engineers anymore, let alone firemen.

Just like pilots, they're totally obsolete, air and rail travel could and should be done by remote control.

[houndawg]

Meh. They can and have taught monkeys how to fly airplanes but they haven't been able to teach them how to build them or fix them yet. Anybody from Fuzzy's Tavern could be taught to fly an airplane. Same with cops and firefighters and teachers. None of them need more than the minimum wage.

But have they taught the monkey's how to land the planes yet? & they have taught monkeys how to turn a wrench, just not how to diagnose the problem....that's why pilots & engineers get, nay, deserve the big bucks & wrench-turners & subway/bus drivers get & deserve no more than minimum wage....

3rd graders could land them by remote control, Norbert. Just like flying drones in Afghanistan.

[Appaholic]

But have they taught the monkey's how to land the planes yet? & they have taught monkeys how to turn a wrench, just not how to diagnose the problem....that's why pilots & engineers get, nay, deserve the big bucks & wrench-turners & subway/bus drivers get & deserve no more than minimum wage....

3rd graders could land them by remote control, Norbert. Just like flying drones in Afghanistan.

I'm sure that would go over real well with the buying public.....but hey, if the pilot's are useless, let's get rid of them along with the other useless positions currently protected by Union contractual requirements...

[houndawg]

I said management has to get it's own house in order before they start asking for givebacks from the people that actually make the product that provides their absurd bonuses for shuffling paper. You work on the overhead problem before you go after direct labor. Fat before muscle, son.

The "overhead" problem you so eloquently discuss goes all the way to the lowest paid union member on the assembly line, Spanky. Gotta have ONE union guy to put the bolt in, ANOTHER (different union) union guy to put the nut ON the bolt, ANOTHER (again, different union) union guy to twist the bolt, ANOTHER (different) union guy to quality check the previous three steps, etc., etc., etc. A dramatization, to be sure, but in reality, not too far from the actual truth.

The BLOAT, WASTE and FRAUD happens at the GROUND level. I've witnessed it in the construction industry, the power generation industry, the shipyard union workers. EVERYWHERE. God FORBID one man do something that belongs to a DIFFERENT union...might cost some fat, overpaid, underworked UNION guy to lose his **** job. You (a good union mouthpiece) can continue to deny reality all you want, but there's a REASON union membership is declining. America is waking up.

Apparently, that does NOT include you, dawg. Get with the program....there's still time.

Settle down, Gladys, or you'll give yourself the vapors.

Where is this "everywhere" of which you speak? Barely 10% of the workforce is unionized and you're trying to lay the nation's economic woes at their feet. A typical response from a mouthpiece for bloated overhead seeking to distract the shareholder from how much of their money is spent on bonuses for those who produce nothing.

[houndawg]

3rd graders could land them by remote control, Norbert. Just like flying drones in Afghanistan.

I'm sure that would go over real well with the buying public.....but hey, if the pilot's are useless, let's get rid of them along with the other useless positions currently protected by Union contractual requirements...

Starting with cops and firefighters.

[houndawg]

Thank goodness for unions, eh?

Yes, because being a union member is what gave the pilot the skill to land the plane....

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- In the first public statement from a pilot of US Airways flight 1549, first officer Jeff Skiles has thanked his union for assisting him in the aftermath of the flight's emergency landing on the Hudson River on Thursday.

"You all need to know that when you are at the weakest, most vulnerable time of your airline career, USAPA will be there to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you," Skiles said in a letter to fellow members of the U.S. Airline Pilots Association. A copy of the letter was obtained by TheStreet.com.

"I have incurred a debt to these people that can never be repaid. I can only say thank you, and tell you that you have made a difference in my life," wrote Skiles, 49, who joined US Airways in 1986.

Skiles handled the takeoff and was at the controls when the birds flew into the engine of the Airbus A320. At that point, he handed the flying off to the captain, Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger. "Your aircraft," said Skiles, according to the cockpit voice recorder.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10458525 ... union.html

typical union member shirking his responsibilities when the going gets tough....

Always thinking about seniority...

[Ibanez]

Why do the railroad unions demand that every train still has a fireman??? A freakin' fireman??? There hasn't been a coal fired commercial train in decades, but to save those jobs we still pay for firemen on the trains...

I don't know why trains even have engineers anymore, let alone firemen.

Just like pilots, they're totally obsolete, air and rail travel could and should be done by remote control.

A pilot in the plane can feel the aircraft and make adjustments that a pilot on the ground can't.

[Col Hogan]

Why do the railroad unions demand that every train still has a fireman??? A freakin' fireman??? There hasn't been a coal fired commercial train in decades, but to save those jobs we still pay for firemen on the trains...

I don't know why trains even have engineers anymore, let alone firemen.

Just like pilots, they're totally obsolete, air and rail travel could and should be done by remote control.

Yep....that must be why "drones" are flying all over the place in this country and Europe.....



WAIT, THEY AREN'T...








Nice try, Norbert.....I'm sure you would be the first in line to get on a pilotless airliner...I, on the other hand, would love to get on an Amtrak train knowing that union-protected useless fireman was not sucking up some of my fare...

[houndawg]

I don't know why trains even have engineers anymore, let alone firemen.

Just like pilots, they're totally obsolete, air and rail travel could and should be done by remote control.

Yep....that must be why "drones" are flying all over the place in this country and Europe.....



WAIT, THEY AREN'T...








Nice try, Norbert.....I'm sure you would be the first in line to get on a pilotless airliner...I, on the other hand, would love to get on an Amtrak train knowing that union-protected useless fireman was not sucking up some of my fare...

It's early, Filbert; once the kinks get worked out in Afghanistan we'll move up to bigger planes. If they can be controlled enough for sugical air strikes, they can easily become the way to fly. ...... me, I won't be first in line for any flying of any kind. It ain't safe up there.

[houndawg]

I don't know why trains even have engineers anymore, let alone firemen.

Just like pilots, they're totally obsolete, air and rail travel could and should be done by remote control.

A pilot in the plane can feel the aircraft and make adjustments that a pilot on the ground can't.

Maybe, if he's awake. Not many adjustments necessary with airliners really, driving a Greyhound probably requires more.

[native]

A pilot in the plane can feel the aircraft and make adjustments that a pilot on the ground can't.

Maybe, if he's awake. Not many adjustments necessary with airliners really, driving a Greyhound probably requires more.

...except for when something goes wrong, as in the case of the bird strike which flamed out an airliner's engines over the Hudson River. Passengers survived only because of the skill and experience of the pilot.

[Col Hogan]

Yep....that must be why "drones" are flying all over the place in this country and Europe.....



WAIT, THEY AREN'T...








Nice try, Norbert.....I'm sure you would be the first in line to get on a pilotless airliner...I, on the other hand, would love to get on an Amtrak train knowing that union-protected useless fireman was not sucking up some of my fare...

It's early, Filbert; once the kinks get worked out in Afghanistan we'll move up to bigger planes. If they can be controlled enough for sugical air strikes, they can easily become the way to fly. ...... me, I won't be first in line for any flying of any kind. It ain't safe up there.

Your depth of knowledge on this subject is measured by a micrometer...

It's early, you say....try about 50 - 75 years early...

The military is leading the way on UAS development...it has NO plans for even an unmanned cargo plane, never mind a people carrier...

The FAA right now will not allow the military to fly a UAS in this country except in restricted airspace...with so few exceptions it's laughable...and even then the red tape is huge...Afghanistan is totally uncontrolled airspace...no civil aviation to run into...same with Iraq...UAS (Predator, Reaper, Global Hawk) do not have "see and avoid" technology to avoid running into, say, a Cessna 172 with Mom and Pop flying to see the kids...

A UAS in Afghanistan is controlled by a pilot here...while in combat...but a pilot in Afghanistan has to be there to take it off and land it...until those issues are worked out, no airline is going to even consider a UAS...

Now, we could automate the baggage handling and get rid of those pesky union members...

[AZGrizFan]

Why do the railroad unions demand that every train still has a fireman??? A freakin' fireman??? There hasn't been a coal fired commercial train in decades, but to save those jobs we still pay for firemen on the trains...

I don't know why trains even have engineers anymore, let alone firemen.

Just like pilots, they're totally obsolete, air and rail travel could and should be done by remote control.

You're not serious, are you? There's one CLEAR, OBVIOUS reason why trains have engineers and firemen and planes have pilots, engineers and stewardesses.

UNIONS!!!

[houndawg]

It's early, Filbert; once the kinks get worked out in Afghanistan we'll move up to bigger planes. If they can be controlled enough for sugical air strikes, they can easily become the way to fly. ...... me, I won't be first in line for any flying of any kind. It ain't safe up there.

Your depth of knowledge on this subject is measured by a micrometer...

It's early, you say....try about 50 - 75 years early...

The military is leading the way on UAS development...it has NO plans for even an unmanned cargo plane, never mind a people carrier...

The FAA right now will not allow the military to fly a UAS in this country except in restricted airspace...with so few exceptions it's laughable...and even then the red tape is huge...Afghanistan is totally uncontrolled airspace...no civil aviation to run into...same with Iraq...UAS (Predator, Reaper, Global Hawk) do not have "see and avoid" technology to avoid running into, say, a Cessna 172 with Mom and Pop flying to see the kids...

A UAS in Afghanistan is controlled by a pilot here...while in combat...but a pilot in Afghanistan has to be there to take it off and land it...until those issues are worked out, no airline is going to even consider a UAS...

Now, we could automate the baggage handling and get rid of those pesky union members...

Details, Quincy, details. As an air force man you just want to keep the expensive union pilots jobs available for riffed officers. The technology will come.

[houndawg]

Maybe, if he's awake. Not many adjustments necessary with airliners really, driving a Greyhound probably requires more.

...except for when something goes wrong, as in the case of the bird strike which flamed out an airliner's engines over the Hudson River. Passengers survived only because of the skill and experience of the union pilot.

FIFY, Nathan. Of course, now that the pilots union is on a two-tiered pay system the next bird strike flameout will likely happen when there is a twenty-something pilot with minimum flight hours making 30K/yr on the stick.

[Appaholic]

...except for when something goes wrong, as in the case of the bird strike which flamed out an airliner's engines over the Hudson River. Passengers survived only because of the skill and experience of the union pilot.

FIFY, Nathan. Of course, now that the pilots union is on a two-tiered pay system the next bird strike flameout will likely happen when there is a twenty-something pilot with minimum flight hours making 30K/yr on the stick.

So which is it? We need high-paid union pilots or low-paid union monkeys playing with a joystick? Either the job is valuable or not? And whether it's union or not has no bearing on the skill necessary to perform the job...

[Col Hogan]

FIFY, Nathan. Of course, now that the pilots union is on a two-tiered pay system the next bird strike flameout will likely happen when there is a twenty-something pilot with minimum flight hours making 30K/yr on the stick.

So which is it? We need high-paid union pilots or low-paid union monkeys playing with a joystick? Either the job is valuable or not? And whether it's union or not has no bearing on the skill necessary to perform the job...

THose high paid union pilots are one of the reasons U.S. airlines (other than SOuthwest) are dying...

The skill level required is the same for union and non-union...the only difference is the unions were getting $120K - $200k plus for working 12 - 15 days a month, with pensions that were nearly as rich as the working guy was being paid...plus the travel benefits...

Now, they have to work 18 - 20 days a month for that $120K...

[Cap'n Cat]

The "overhead" problem you so eloquently discuss goes all the way to the lowest paid union member on the assembly line, Spanky. Gotta have ONE union guy to put the bolt in, ANOTHER (different union) union guy to put the nut ON the bolt, ANOTHER (again, different union) union guy to twist the bolt, ANOTHER (different) union guy to quality check the previous three steps, etc., etc., etc. A dramatization, to be sure, but in reality, not too far from the actual truth.

The BLOAT, WASTE and FRAUD happens at the GROUND level. I've witnessed it in the construction industry, the power generation industry, the shipyard union workers. EVERYWHERE. God FORBID one man do something that belongs to a DIFFERENT union...might cost some fat, overpaid, underworked UNION guy to lose his **** job. You (a good union mouthpiece) can continue to deny reality all you want, but there's a REASON union membership is declining. America is waking up.

Apparently, that does NOT include you, dawg. Get with the program....there's still time.

Settle down, Gladys, or you'll give yourself the vapors.

Where is this "everywhere" of which you speak? Barely 10% of the workforce is unionized and you're trying to lay the nation's economic woes at their feet. A typical response from a mouthpiece for bloated overhead seeking to distract the shareholder from how much of their money is spent on bonuses for those who produce nothing.

Best Z takedown in CS's history!!!!

BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!!




But, let's be careful to differentiate between manufacturing management (who are contributing overhead) and managers, like Z, of intangible sh*t (who are gross, costly overhead).

[AZGrizFan]

The BLOAT, WASTE and FRAUD happens at the GROUND level. I've witnessed it in the construction industry, the power generation industry, the shipyard union workers. EVERYWHERE. God FORBID one man do something that belongs to a DIFFERENT union...might cost some fat, overpaid, underworked UNION guy to lose his **** job. You (a good union mouthpiece) can continue to deny reality all you want, but there's a REASON union membership is declining. America is waking up.

Where is this "everywhere" of which you speak? Barely 10% of the workforce is unionized and you're trying to lay the nation's economic woes at their feet. A typical response from a mouthpiece for bloated overhead seeking to distract the shareholder from how much of their money is spent on bonuses for those who produce nothing.

Everywhere. As in "everywhere there's union presence."

Try and keep up, Ethel.