F-16 vs F-35

[houndawg]

Here's a measured post on the subject - I know this guy is normally critical of wasteful military spending in most circumstances-

but he makes a pretty good case for withholding judgment on the F-35:

http://formerspook.blogspot.com/2015/07 ... g.html?m=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Reads like he thinks its all about the electronics too.



Other boodoggles have been eventually made to work, like the F4 and F111, but they wind up being mediocre at everything instead of excelling at dogfighting or air to ground. If we'd quit trying to make a plane that can do it all we could probably develop two aircraft that each excel at a more limited role and we could likely do it for less money.

[CID1990]

Here's a measured post on the subject - I know this guy is normally critical of wasteful military spending in most circumstances-

but he makes a pretty good case for withholding judgment on the F-35:

http://formerspook.blogspot.com/2015/07 ... g.html?m=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Reads like he thinks its all about the electronics too.



Other boodoggles have been eventually made to work, like the F4 and F111, but they wind up being mediocre at everything instead of excelling at dogfighting or air to ground. If we'd quit trying to make a plane that can do it all we could probably develop two aircraft that each excel at a more limited role and we could likely do it for less money.

No, if you knew how to read critically you would understand that he is saying two things: first, the plane used was a prototype and second- close in fighting is a very small part of the package

so he isnt saying "its all about the electronics" but please comtinue to read into it what you will

A lot of the brouhaha reminds me of the V-22 and all the gnashing of media teeth going on during its development - now there is the sound of crickets because they ironed out the kinks and now it is performing as advertised

[houndawg]

Reads like he thinks its all about the electronics too.



Other boodoggles have been eventually made to work, like the F4 and F111, but they wind up being mediocre at everything instead of excelling at dogfighting or air to ground. If we'd quit trying to make a plane that can do it all we could probably develop two aircraft that each excel at a more limited role and we could likely do it for less money.

No, if you knew how to read critically you would understand that he is saying two things: first, the plane used was a prototype and second- close in fighting is a very small part of the package

so he isnt saying "its all about the electronics" but please comtinue to read into it what you will

A lot of the brouhaha reminds me of the V-22 and all the gnashing of media teeth going on during its development - now there is the sound of crickets because they ironed out the kinks and now it is performing as advertised

At more than 12 times the original budget.

Sure we can make this thing work if we just keep throwing enough money at it. Pity that other than the electronics it can't even be considered an incremental improvement over existing fighters.

[93henfan]

V-22 Osprey; Not F-22.

But a lot of the same still applies. Way, WAY over intitial budget and took over two decades from contract to fielding. An aircraft hatched from the Iran hostage rescue failure under Carter that wasn't fully operational until the second term of Dubya.

[CID1990]

V-22 Osprey; Not F-22.

But a lot of the same still applies. Way, WAY over intitial budget and took over two decades from contract to fielding. An aircraft hatched from the Iran hostage rescue failure under Carter that wasn't fully operational until the second term of Dubya.

I did say V-22 because that was the one I was referring to- during its development the media was snapping up any derogatory thing they could get their hands on - the V-22 actually appeared to be a buzzard

Then it went operational. The Marines love it and it outperforms every platform it replaced.

The F-22 didnt really suffer from all the bad press (aside from its pricetag) and it is a shit hot aircraft and there arent too many people out there who would dispute that (except maybe our resident Nostrashitass and his sidekick Quasimododawg)

The F-35 incorporates a lot of what makes the F22 a great platform (minus one engine - that IS a drawback) which is why I'll hold judgment until there's more info than just a blog post from a disgruntled test pilot who got out-piloted by an active duty non-test pilot Viper jockey.

[houndawg]

V-22 Osprey; Not F-22.

But a lot of the same still applies. Way, WAY over intitial budget and took over two decades from contract to fielding. An aircraft hatched from the Iran hostage rescue failure under Carter that wasn't fully operational until the second term of Dubya.

I did say V-22 because that was the one I was referring to- during its development the media was snapping up any derogatory thing they could get their hands on - the V-22 actually appeared to be a buzzard

Then it went operational. The Marines love it and it outperforms every platform it replaced.

The F-22 didnt really suffer from all the bad press (aside from its pricetag) and it is a **** hot aircraft and there arent too many people out there who would dispute that (except maybe our resident Nostrashitass and his sidekick Quasimododawg)

The F-35 incorporates a lot of what makes the F22 a great platform (minus one engine - that IS a drawback) which is why I'll hold judgment until there's more info than just a blog post from a disgruntled test pilot who got out-piloted by an active duty non-test pilot Viper jockey.

Long term its bound to work, a trillion dollars should be able to fix what a mere $350 billion can't.

[93henfan]

V-22 Osprey; Not F-22.

But a lot of the same still applies. Way, WAY over intitial budget and took over two decades from contract to fielding. An aircraft hatched from the Iran hostage rescue failure under Carter that wasn't fully operational until the second term of Dubya.

I did say V-22 because that was the one I was referring to- during its development the media was snapping up any derogatory thing they could get their hands on - the V-22 actually appeared to be a buzzard

Then it went operational. The Marines love it and it outperforms every platform it replaced.

The F-22 didnt really suffer from all the bad press (aside from its pricetag) and it is a shit hot aircraft and there arent too many people out there who would dispute that (except maybe our resident Nostrashitass and his sidekick Quasimododawg)

The F-35 incorporates a lot of what makes the F22 a great platform (minus one engine - that IS a drawback) which is why I'll hold judgment until there's more info than just a blog post from a disgruntled test pilot who got out-piloted by an active duty non-test pilot Viper jockey.

Anything is better than the Sea Knight it replaced. I watched one start smoking on the tarmac in Yuma before becoming completely engulfed in flames before the trucks got there.

The most striking thing about riding on a Sea Knight, other than the twin rotor vibration and sensation that the thing could rattle itself apart at any time was the rainfall of hydraulic fluid that coated you when you were riding on the thing and trying to avoid the puddles of it embarking and debarking the chopper. The adage was never to get in one that wasn't dripping because that meant there was no oil left.

[CID1990]

I did say V-22 because that was the one I was referring to- during its development the media was snapping up any derogatory thing they could get their hands on - the V-22 actually appeared to be a buzzard

Then it went operational. The Marines love it and it outperforms every platform it replaced.

The F-22 didnt really suffer from all the bad press (aside from its pricetag) and it is a **** hot aircraft and there arent too many people out there who would dispute that (except maybe our resident Nostrashitass and his sidekick Quasimododawg)

The F-35 incorporates a lot of what makes the F22 a great platform (minus one engine - that IS a drawback) which is why I'll hold judgment until there's more info than just a blog post from a disgruntled test pilot who got out-piloted by an active duty non-test pilot Viper jockey.

Anything is better than the Sea Knight it replaced. I watched one start smoking on the tarmac in Yuma before becoming completely engulfed in flames before the trucks got there.

The most striking thing about riding on a Sea Knight, other than the twin rotor vibration and sensation that the thing could rattle itself apart at any time was the rainfall of hydraulic fluid that coated you when you were riding on the thing and trying to avoid the puddles of it embarking and debarking the chopper. The adage was never to get in one that wasn't dripping because that meant there was no oil left.

Guaranteed that Phrog was older than you or me.

[93henfan]

Anything is better than the Sea Knight it replaced. I watched one start smoking on the tarmac in Yuma before becoming completely engulfed in flames before the trucks got there.

The most striking thing about riding on a Sea Knight, other than the twin rotor vibration and sensation that the thing could rattle itself apart at any time was the rainfall of hydraulic fluid that coated you when you were riding on the thing and trying to avoid the puddles of it embarking and debarking the chopper. The adage was never to get in one that wasn't dripping because that meant there was no oil left.

Guaranteed that Phrog was older than you or me.

Most likely. The last Marine CH-46 was built in 1971, the same year I was built.

[CID1990]

Guaranteed that Phrog was older than you or me.

Most likely. The last Marine CH-46 was built in 1971, the same year I was built.

There's a really good article about them in the latest issue of Aviation History. They were rickety as hell but the fact that they have only just been retired is testament to their toughness.

[ASUG8]

Most likely. The last Marine CH-46 was built in 1971, the same year I was built.

There's a really good article about them in the latest issue of Aviation History. They were rickety as hell but the fact that they have only just been retired is testament to their toughness.

I've read that the SR71 was like that....leaked like a sieve on the ground, but all the joints sealed up at mach 2+ at 80,000 ft. That was a beautiful plane.

[CID1990]

There's a really good article about them in the latest issue of Aviation History. They were rickety as hell but the fact that they have only just been retired is testament to their toughness.

I've read that the SR71 was like that....leaked like a sieve on the ground, but all the joints sealed up at mach 2+ at 80,000 ft. That was a beautiful plane.

Probably the most elegant plane we have ever designed - and back in the days of the slide rule.

[93henfan]

I had a poster of the SR-71 front view with US to England flight time of sub 2 hrs posted on the bottom.

[ASUG8]

When the SR-71 was retired in 1990, one Blackbird was flown from its birthplace at United States Air Force Plant 42 in Palmdale, California, to go on exhibit at what is now the Smithsonian Institution's Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center in Chantilly, Virginia.[97] On 6 March 1990, Lt. Col. Raymond E. "Ed" Yielding and Lt. Col. Joseph T. "JT" Vida piloted SR-71 S/N 61-7972 on its final Senior Crown flight and set four new speed records in the process.

Los Angeles, CA, to Washington, D.C., distance 2,299.7 miles (3,701.0 km), average speed 2,144.8 miles per hour (3,451.7 km/h), and an elapsed time of 64 minutes 20 seconds.[95]
West Coast to East Coast, distance 2,404 miles (3,869 km), average speed 2,124.5 miles per hour (3,419.1 km/h), and an elapsed time of 67 minutes 54 seconds.
Kansas City, Missouri, to Washington, D.C., distance 942 miles (1,516 km), average speed 2,176 miles per hour (3,502 km/h), and an elapsed time of 25 minutes 59 seconds.
St. Louis, Missouri, to Cincinnati, Ohio, distance 311.4 miles (501.1 km), average speed 2,189.9 miles per hour (3,524.3 km/h), and an elapsed time of 8 minutes 32 seconds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AZGrizFan]

I kinda get the Marine's need for VTOL, but the amount of fuel used means the F-35B needs to find a tanker immediately after getting to the proper altitude.

F-18 already has to do that now.

[CID1990]

I kinda get the Marine's need for VTOL, but the amount of fuel used means the F-35B needs to find a tanker immediately after getting to the proper altitude.

F-18 already has to do that now.

little known fact -

the AV-8B fully loaded has a longer takeoff roll than a fully loaded F-18

[AZGrizFan]

V-22 Osprey; Not F-22.

But a lot of the same still applies. Way, WAY over intitial budget and took over two decades from contract to fielding. An aircraft hatched from the Iran hostage rescue failure under Carter that wasn't fully operational until the second term of Dubya.

I did say V-22 because that was the one I was referring to- during its development the media was snapping up any derogatory thing they could get their hands on - the V-22 actually appeared to be a buzzard

Then it went operational. The Marines love it and it outperforms every platform it replaced.

The F-22 didnt really suffer from all the bad press (aside from its pricetag) and it is a shit hot aircraft and there arent too many people out there who would dispute that (except maybe our resident Nostrashitass and his sidekick Quasimododawg)

The F-35 incorporates a lot of what makes the F22 a great platform (minus one engine - that IS a drawback) which is why I'll hold judgment until there's more info than just a blog post from a disgruntled test pilot who got out-piloted by an active duty non-test pilot Viper jockey.

My first thought as well.

[houndawg]

I've read that the SR71 was like that....leaked like a sieve on the ground, but all the joints sealed up at mach 2+ at 80,000 ft. That was a beautiful plane.

Probably the most elegant plane we have ever designed - and back in the days of the slide rule.

Yep.

Of course it is much easier to design a Ferrari than a Taurus.

[DSUrocks07]

[youtube]http://youtu.be/NeK04RFu_kk [/youtube]