U.S. government thinks China could take down power grid

[BDKJMU]

The U.S. government thinks China could take down the power grid

Washington (CNN) -- China and "probably one or two other" countries have the capacity to shut down the nation's power grid and other critical infrastructure through a cyber attack, the head of the National Security Agency told a Congressional panel Thursday.

Admiral Michael Rogers, who also serves the dual role as head of U.S. Cyber Command, said the United States has detected malware from China and elsewhere on U.S. computers systems that affect the daily lives of every American.

"It enables you to shut down very segmented, very tailored parts of our infrastructure that forestall the ability to provide that service to us as citizens," Rogers said in testimony before the House Intelligence Committee.

Rogers said such attacks are part of the "coming trends" he sees based on "reconnaissance" currently taking place that nation-states, or other actors may use to exploit vulnerabilities in U.S. cyber systems.

A recent report by Mandiant, a cyber-security firm, found that hackers working on behalf of the Chinese government were able to penetrate American public utility systems that service everything from power generation, to the movement of water and fuel across the country.

"We see them attempting to steal information on how our systems are configured, the very schematics of most of our control systems, down to engineering level of detail so they can look at where are the vulnerabilities, how are they constructed, how could I get in and defeat them," Rogers said. "We're seeing multiple nation-states invest in those kinds of capabilities."

Admiral Rogers declined to identify who the other countries, beside China, because of the classified nature of their identities. Russia is generally regarded as also having an aggressive cyber program.

In addition to nation-state actors, Admiral Rogers noted the increasing presence of "surrogate" criminal actors in cyberspace that serve to obscure the hidden hand of criminal activity done on behalf of formal nation-states.

"That's a troubling development for us," Rogers said.

Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Michigan, the retiring chairman of the committee, called the groups "cyber hit men for hire" for nation-state actors in cyberspace.

The testimony also comes in the wake of a report from the Pew Internet and American Life Project that cited a prediction by technology experts that a catastrophic cyber-attack that causes significant losses in life and financial damage would occur by 2025.

Admiral Rogers told the committee he did not disagree with the assessment.
In addition to the threats from specific nation-states, Admiral Rogers said there are already groups within the

U.S. cyber architecture who seek to cause major damage to corporate and other critical sectors of the American economy.

"It is only a matter of the when, not the if, that we are going to see something traumatic." he said.
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[BDKJMU]

Well this is worrisome. Sounds like a bigger threat than economic collapse, ebola like plague, emp, suitcase nuke dirty bombs, etc...

[CID1990]

Our power grid is our biggest vulnerability, but the Chinese intentionally committing a traceable act of war is much less likely than a major solar event- the Chinese option is only theoretically possible. The solar flare WILL happen and right now we are not prepared.

[ASUG8]

Our power grid is our biggest vulnerability, but the Chinese intentionally committing a traceable act of war is much less likely than a major solar event- the Chinese option is only theoretically possible. The solar flare WILL happen and right now we are not prepared.

I always think of the book you recommended called "one minute after". Scary shit. If the Chinese targeted our power grid and GPS constellation we'd be back to fighting 1860s style almost overnight.

[YoUDeeMan]

I have to laugh at things such as this.

WE have been attacking people and governments through cyber space for over a decade. Hell, we practically invented cyber attacks...and we eventually bragged about our efforts to stop Iran's nuclear program. Now we are surprised and alarmed that other countries have the capability of disrupting our affairs?

This is simply some ploy to get additional funding, as in MASSIVE spending, passed for some politically friendly corporation. As CID said, we should not worry about the Chinese...they know an attack on us would result in a cyber MAD scenario that would cripple everyone. Solar knockout? Meh...we'll also have an asteroid targeting us someday.

[HI54UNI]

Could they do it? Yes. Will they do it? No - unless we get into some kind of shooting war with them. Why won't they do it? Because if they shut down our power grid it shuts down our economy. And if our economy shuts down who buys all the crap they make in China? We're too dependent on one another to get into that kind of pissing match.

The worst part is the govt will over react and require electric utilities to implement a bunch of stupid requirements that don't really protect against the biggest threats and only increase electricity costs further.

[Ivytalk]

If the Red Chinese did something like that, we'd retaliate. One billion fried wontons. Yummy.

[CID1990]

If the Red Chinese did something like that, we'd retaliate. One billion fried wontons. Yummy.

nope, we wont

The Chinese can do whatever they want now

we dont have the will to go to full on war with them over anything

[houndawg]

I have to laugh at things such as this.

WE have been attacking people and governments through cyber space for over a decade. Hell, we practically invented cyber attacks...and we eventually bragged about our efforts to stop Iran's nuclear program. Now we are surprised and alarmed that other countries have the capability of disrupting our affairs?

This is simply some ploy to get additional funding, as in MASSIVE spending, passed for some politically friendly corporation. As CID said, we should not worry about the Chinese...they know an attack on us would result in a cyber MAD scenario that would cripple everyone. Solar knockout? Meh...we'll also have an asteroid targeting us someday.

We'll be horrified when other countries develop their drone capabilities and start taking potshots at Americans. Horrified.

[houndawg]

Our power grid is our biggest vulnerability, but the Chinese intentionally committing a traceable act of war is much less likely than a major solar event- the Chinese option is only theoretically possible. The solar flare WILL happen and right now we are not prepared.

I always think of the book you recommended called "one minute after". Scary ****. If the Chinese targeted our power grid and GPS constellation we'd be back to fighting 1860s style almost overnight.

They wouldn't want to interrupt production at their factories.

[mrklean]

This is a serious threat. What would happen if the east coat was without power for 48 hours. Or, what would happen if the Hoover Dam was destroyed. The majority of the west coast would be without power.

[YoUDeeMan]

I have to laugh at things such as this.

WE have been attacking people and governments through cyber space for over a decade. Hell, we practically invented cyber attacks...and we eventually bragged about our efforts to stop Iran's nuclear program. Now we are surprised and alarmed that other countries have the capability of disrupting our affairs?

This is simply some ploy to get additional funding, as in MASSIVE spending, passed for some politically friendly corporation. As CID said, we should not worry about the Chinese...they know an attack on us would result in a cyber MAD scenario that would cripple everyone. Solar knockout? Meh...we'll also have an asteroid targeting us someday.

We'll be horrified when other countries develop their drone capabilities and start taking potshots at Americans. Horrified.

Much cheaper to put some bombs on a freighter.

[YoUDeeMan]

This is a serious threat. What would happen if the east coat was without power for 48 hours. Or, what would happen if the Hoover Dam was destroyed. The majority of the west coast would be without power.

1) No problem for inner city folks...they'd imply riot and break into stores to steal things. Nothing new.
2) No problem for the West Coast people...those hippies all have a year's supply of granola stocked away.

[kalm]

This is a serious threat. What would happen if the east coat was without power for 48 hours. Or, what would happen if the Hoover Dam was destroyed. The majority of the west coast would be without power.

1) No problem for inner city folks...they'd imply riot and break into stores to steal things. Nothing new.
2) No problem for the West Coast people...those hippies all have a year's supply of granola stocked away.

Not to mention our water wheels, rainwater barrels, solar panels, and love. Don't forget the power of love.

[houndawg]

We'll be horrified when other countries develop their drone capabilities and start taking potshots at Americans. Horrified.

Much cheaper to put some bombs on a freighter.

Much more cheaper to steal it or buy it on the black market. The chineses will likely have it available to everybody in five years, just like PV panels..

[houndawg]

1) No problem for inner city folks...they'd imply riot and break into stores to steal things. Nothing new.
2) No problem for the West Coast people...those hippies all have a year's supply of granola stocked away.

Not to mention our water wheels, rainwater barrels, solar panels, and love. Don't forget the power of love.

Did you just admit to collecting runoff in the state of WA?

[kalm]

Not to mention our water wheels, rainwater barrels, solar panels, and love. Don't forget the power of love.

Did you just admit to collecting runoff in the state of WA?

Don't tell ecology...

[YoUDeeMan]

Did you just admit to collecting runoff in the state of WA?

Don't tell ecology...

You can't collect rain water in Washington?

[houndawg]

Don't tell ecology...

You can't collect rain water in Washington?

Or Colorado... actually it may not be illegal there but I think you need a permit

[Ibanez]

You can't collect rain water in Washington?

Or Colorado... actually it may not be illegal there but I think you need a permit

Seriously?

[Chizzang]

Yup... its true
You cannot collect or store rainwater in Washington State
You also cannot alter the flow or in any way deviate natural ground water movement and flow




River Otter says: We're watching you...

[kalm]

Yup... its true
You cannot collect or store rainwater in Washington State
You also cannot alter the flow or in any way deviate natural ground water movement and flow




River Otter says: We're watching you...

Ecology uses satellite images to catch dam building perps.

[Grizalltheway]

Given your stream access laws, I really can't say I'm surprised.

[ASUG8]

Yup... its true
You cannot collect or store rainwater in Washington State
You also cannot alter the flow or in any way deviate natural ground water movement and flow




River Otter says: We're watching you...

Which one of these is worse in Washington state?