Justice

[kalm]

It was in the article. Do try and keep up.

Hey, Shlomo, Tubby says the alleged laundering was $9 billion. You multiplied that by a factor of about 6930. Or 6.93 X 10 to the third power. Mathematically impossible.

My bad. I read a couple different articles on this and I knew I'd seen the number before. Here it is in a Forbes article:

HSBC actively circumvented rules designed to “block transactions involving terrorists, drug lords, and rogue regimes.” In one case, “two HSBC affiliates sent nearly 25,000 transactions involving $19.4 billion through their HBUS [HSBC’s U.S. affiliate] accounts over seven years without disclosing the transactions’ links to Iran.”

They provided U.S. dollar financing and services to banks in Saudi Arabia and Bangladesh that were tied to terrorist organizations, while also clearing $290 million in “obviously suspicious travelers cheques” that benefitted Russians “who claimed to be in the used car business.”

Furthermore, the investigation showed how the bank’s regulator, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) failed to take a single enforcement action against HSBC despite numerous violations by the international bank. Among them, failing to monitor $60 trillion in wire transfer and account activity, a backlog of 17,000 unreviewed account alerts regarding potentially suspicious activity, and a failure to conduct anti-money laundering due diligence before opening accounts for HSBC affiliates.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecch ... port-says/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So the $60 trillion comes from non-monitored activity. Regardless, the numbers are significant.

[kalm]

He's written dozens of articles taking the administration to task over lack of prosecution, regulation, and unkept campaign promises...suggested remedies too (as, btw, he did in this piece). Highlighting the irony between the war on drugs and multinational banksters enabling their financing while avoiding prosecution that two bit pot heads get sent to jail for is simply another angle in the greater story.

Keep swinging though!

You must be kidding.

Talibani's remedies:

1) Take ALL profits from the bank. But Taliman himself is not happy that ordinary folks have their money confiscated if it is suspected to have links to drugs (and, typically, Tabby never bothered to finish the story about the man who had his cash confiscated...oops) and even argued against the practice. So, even he is tactically admitting that is not a real remedy.

2) Criminally prosecute the bankers involved...but Taby doesn't bother to provide names or details, so it is more of a lazy statement than actual investigative journalism.

So, again, no real solutions...no "remedies". Tiebaby "attacks" the justice Department, but does not attack, or even directly mention, the one man who could use his power to CHANGE this silliness. Nope...just a one line mention of the "Obama administration" (which brings up a faceless image of some unaccountable press secretary). No call for readers to contact their elected leaders to hold an investigation...no calls for Obama to publicly answer why he is protecting the rich and their profits while telling the public he is, "on their side" against the 1%.

In other articles, he mentions the names of the bad guys...if they are bad guys he doesn't like. In this one, he does his best to avoid names, details, or solutions.

Sure, it makes for a somewhat fun opinion piece. But it sure as hell doesn't do anyone any justice.

As I said, he took the same road that the Justice Department took. He was lazy and he settled....and in the end he didn't hold anyone accountable.

Key phrase here. But keep trying...

[Ivytalk]

Anyone else notice these Kalm v Ivytalk banking spats are just a refined version of the JJ v D1B Catholic pedo threads?

Hey, they're OUR spats, and we enjoy them!

So piss off.

[AZGrizFan]

Hey, Shlomo, Tubby says the alleged laundering was $9 billion. You multiplied that by a factor of about 6930. Or 6.93 X 10 to the third power. Mathematically impossible.

My bad. I read a couple different articles on this and I knew I'd seen the number before. Here it is in a Forbes article:

HSBC actively circumvented rules designed to “block transactions involving terrorists, drug lords, and rogue regimes.” In one case, “two HSBC affiliates sent nearly 25,000 transactions involving $19.4 billion through their HBUS [HSBC’s U.S. affiliate] accounts over seven years without disclosing the transactions’ links to Iran.”

They provided U.S. dollar financing and services to banks in Saudi Arabia and Bangladesh that were tied to terrorist organizations, while also clearing $290 million in “obviously suspicious travelers cheques” that benefitted Russians “who claimed to be in the used car business.”

Furthermore, the investigation showed how the bank’s regulator, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) failed to take a single enforcement action against HSBC despite numerous violations by the international bank. Among them, failing to monitor $60 trillion in wire transfer and account activity, a backlog of 17,000 unreviewed account alerts regarding potentially suspicious activity, and a failure to conduct anti-money laundering due diligence before opening accounts for HSBC affiliates.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecch ... port-says/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So the $60 trillion comes from non-monitored activity. Regardless, the numbers are significant.

You ought to quit while you're behind. The $60 trillion in "non-monitored activity" just means that they didn't do proper OFAC/BSA/AML checks on wire transfers....

[Grizalltheway]

My bad. I read a couple different articles on this and I knew I'd seen the number before. Here it is in a Forbes article:



http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecch ... port-says/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So the $60 trillion comes from non-monitored activity. Regardless, the numbers are significant.

You ought to quit while you're behind. The $60 trillion in "non-monitored activity" just means that they didn't do proper OFAC/BSA/AML checks on wire transfers....

Which means no one would know that they were doing business with terrorist groups, right?

[AZGrizFan]

You ought to quit while you're behind. The $60 trillion in "non-monitored activity" just means that they didn't do proper OFAC/BSA/AML checks on wire transfers....

Which means no one would know that they were doing business with terrorist groups, right?

Failing to have an adequate AML/BSA process is incredibly common. The rules and regulations are absolutely ludicrous. I can tell you this from first hand experience. I can't even IMAGINE the quantum leap in difficulty with an international operation. But to make the logic leap that they're "doing business with terrorist groups" is comical.

[Grizalltheway]

Which means no one would know that they were doing business with terrorist groups, right?

Failing to have an adequate AML/BSA process is incredibly common. The rules and regulations are absolutely ludicrous. I can tell you this from first hand experience. I can't even IMAGINE the quantum leap in difficulty with an international operation. But to make the logic leap that they're "doing business with terrorist groups" is comical.

Isn't that the issue at hand with HBSC?

[AZGrizFan]

Failing to have an adequate AML/BSA process is incredibly common. The rules and regulations are absolutely ludicrous. I can tell you this from first hand experience. I can't even IMAGINE the quantum leap in difficulty with an international operation. But to make the logic leap that they're "doing business with terrorist groups" is comical.

Bear with me as I've only skimmed this thread, but wasn't that the big issue at hand with HBSC?

They were penalized because their inadequate AML/BSA oversight process ALLOWED drug cartels to launder money through their accounts. I got news for you: this shit happens every DAY. The expectation from the federal government that somehow it's the BANK'S job to determine if someone is a fucking terrorist or drug runner is laughable. The U.S. Border Patrol will no longer act as interpreters for local law enforcement because they were "asking probing questions, determining citizenship, and sending people back to Mexico", so Janet Fucking Napolitano decides to stop that shit altogether. So, the Federal Government could give a shit about illegal activity along the border, much of which involves drugs and drug runners...instead, they can sit back, create laws that are almost IMPOSSIBLE to adhere to, then rake in the money in fines and penalties when the financial institutions ultimately and predictably fail to comply.

Fucking genius...

[kalm]

Bear with me as I've only skimmed this thread, but wasn't that the big issue at hand with HBSC?

They were penalized because their inadequate AML/BSA oversight process ALLOWED drug cartels to launder money through their accounts. I got news for you: this shit happens every DAY. The expectation from the federal government that somehow it's the BANK'S job to determine if someone is a fucking terrorist or drug runner is laughable. The U.S. Border Patrol will no longer act as interpreters for local law enforcement because they were "asking probing questions, determining citizenship, and sending people back to Mexico", so Janet Fucking Napolitano decides to stop that shit altogether. So, the Federal Government could give a shit about illegal activity along the border, much of which involves drugs and drug runners...instead, they can sit back, create laws that are almost IMPOSSIBLE to adhere to, then rake in the money in fines and penalties when the financial institutions ultimately and predictably fail to comply.

Fucking genius...

Oh boo fucking hoo. My bank can shut down my card for suspicious behavior when the wife and kids can't make up their mind which fast food/c store crap they want to buy between here and Seattle and I fail to notify the bank I would be traveling outside our normal habits, but 19.4 billion in deposits from Iran and 280 billion in travellers checks from russian used car salesman are just too tough to track?

If you are that far removed from your clients you are truly TBTF.

[YoUDeeMan]

Sure, it makes for a somewhat fun opinion piece. But it sure as hell doesn't do anyone any justice.

As I said, he took the same road that the Justice Department took. He was lazy and he settled....and in the end he didn't hold anyone accountable.

Key phrase here. But keep trying...

He's written dozens of articles taking the administration to task over lack of prosecution, regulation, and unkept campaign promises...suggested remedies too (as, btw, he did in this piece). Highlighting the irony between the war on drugs and multinational banksters enabling their financing while avoiding prosecution that two bit pot heads get sent to jail for is simply another angle in the greater story.

Keep swinging though!

Wait, I've got it...you don't bother reading your own articles, you simply blend everything together (60 trillion ) and expect everyone else to buy into it...sort of like Talibanman.

Again, since you said he had remedies in this piece...please poiint them out. Otherwise, Talibi is just another sensationalist hack writer who complains about issues and big, bad people and yet won't specifically call out his buddies.

[kalm]

Key phrase here. But keep trying...

Wait, I've got it...you don't bother reading your own articles, you simply blend everything together (60 trillion ) and expect everyone else to buy into it...sort of like Talibanman.

Again, since you said he had remedies in this piece...please poiint them out. Otherwise, Talibi is just another sensationalist hack writer who complains about issues and big, bad people and yet won't specifically call out his buddies.

Yep...I can admit when I'm wrong. You should try it out some time my friend.

As for remedies, I agree with Taibbi, we should treat these bank executives exactly like we treat drug dealers and those who aid terrorists:

How about all of it? How about every last dollar the bank has made since it started its illegal activity? How about you dive into every bank account of every single executive involved in this mess and take every last bonus dollar they've ever earned? Then take their houses, their cars, the paintings they bought at Sotheby's auctions, the clothes in their closets, the loose change in the jars on their kitchen counters, every last freaking thing. Take it all and don't think twice. And then throw them in jail.

Sound harsh? It does, doesn't it? The only problem is, that's exactly what the government does just about every day to ordinary people involved in ordinary drug cases.

Why are you so soft on crime Cluck? Perhaps you're also a little soft on irony.

[YoUDeeMan]

Wait, I've got it...you don't bother reading your own articles, you simply blend everything together (60 trillion ) and expect everyone else to buy into it...sort of like Talibanman.

Again, since you said he had remedies in this piece...please poiint them out. Otherwise, Talibi is just another sensationalist hack writer who complains about issues and big, bad people and yet won't specifically call out his buddies.

Yep...I can admit when I'm wrong. You should try it out some time my friend.

As for remedies, I agree with Taibbi, we should treat these bank executives exactly like we treat drug dealers and those who aid terrorists:

How about all of it? How about every last dollar the bank has made since it started its illegal activity? How about you dive into every bank account of every single executive involved in this mess and take every last bonus dollar they've ever earned? Then take their houses, their cars, the paintings they bought at Sotheby's auctions, the clothes in their closets, the loose change in the jars on their kitchen counters, every last freaking thing. Take it all and don't think twice. And then throw them in jail.

Sound harsh? It does, doesn't it? The only problem is, that's exactly what the government does just about every day to ordinary people involved in ordinary drug cases.

Why are you so soft on crime Cluck? Perhaps you're also a little soft on irony.

Kalm...in his article(s) regarding drugs, he is NOT in favor of taking suspected drug money and he is not in favor of jailing people for drugs. Christ, you read him and should know that.

So again, what are hIs REAL solutions? he can't be for jailing bankers for doing the same thing as the man on the street that he defends.

HINT: he doesn't provide any. And, agaIn, he takes care not to go too hard on the people he is pretending to chastize

[kalm]

Yep...I can admit when I'm wrong. You should try it out some time my friend.

As for remedies, I agree with Taibbi, we should treat these bank executives exactly like we treat drug dealers and those who aid terrorists:



Why are you so soft on crime Cluck? Perhaps you're also a little soft on irony.

Kalm...in his article(s) regarding drugs, he is NOT in favor of taking suspected drug money and he is not in favor of jailing people for drugs. Christ, you read him and should know that.

So again, what are hIs REAL solutions? he can't be for jailing bankers for doing the same thing as the man on the street that he defends.

HINT: he doesn't provide any. And, agaIn, he takes care not to go too hard on the people he is pretending to chastize

He criticized without providing solutions and poked fun at the hypocrisy and ridiculousness of it all. In other words...he pulled a Cluck U.

[YoUDeeMan]

No. I would call to jail the bastards AND rip Obama. I would have Put the names of the guilty parties, those in the Justice Department, the banks, the Administration, the White House in writing and called for their resignations. And I would stay on the story until others picked it up.

Big difference.

F typing all this on an iPhone.

[kalm]

No. I would call to jail the bastards AND rip Obama. I would have Put the names of the guilty parties, those in the Justice Department, the banks, the Administration, the White House in writing and called for their resignations. And I would stay on the story until others picked it up.

Big difference.

F typing all this on an iPhone.

Totally agree. But I'm not looking to the press to play the role of prosecutor.

[AZGrizFan]

No. I would call to jail the bastards AND rip Obama. I would have Put the names of the guilty parties, those in the Justice Department, the banks, the Administration, the White House in writing and called for their resignations. And I would stay on the story until others picked it up.

Big difference.

F typing all this on an iPhone.

Totally agree. But I'm not looking to the press to play the role of prosecutor.

Yet banks should play the role of the CIA?

[kalm]

Totally agree. But I'm not looking to the press to play the role of prosecutor.

Yet banks should play the role of the CIA?

Touche.

But don't banks have a responsibility, not only to society, but to themselves of knowing who their customers are and conducting business with only legit entities?

[AZGrizFan]

Yet banks should play the role of the CIA?

Touche.

But don't banks have a responsibility, not only to society, but to themselves of knowing who their customers are and conducting business with only legit entities?

Yes, they do. And I'm not trying to excuse what HSBC did...they had blatant violations of the AML/BSA/OFAC laws. So blatant that even a little credit union CEO could have looked at it and said WTF? But having a responsibility to do so, and then being painted into a regulatory corner by regulations that are almost IMPOSSIBLE to adhere to, is another story.

Did you know that if you are a member of a financial institution and you want to sell your car (financed through that financial institution) to someone, YOUR financial institution has to do an OFAC (Office of Foreign Asset Controls) check on the person to whom you are selling the car, to ensure the buyer isn't paying with "illegal" assets?

As is typical with any government regulatory agency, they eventually go to far. We've reached that point. I can tell you with virtual certainty that the government could go into ANY and EVERY financial institution in the country and find violations that resulted in large penalties.

[kalm]

Touche.

But don't banks have a responsibility, not only to society, but to themselves of knowing who their customers are and conducting business with only legit entities?

Yes, they do. And I'm not trying to excuse what HSBC did...they had blatant violations of the AML/BSA/OFAC laws. So blatant that even a little credit union CEO could have looked at it and said WTF? But having a responsibility to do so, and then being painted into a regulatory corner by regulations that are almost IMPOSSIBLE to adhere to, is another story.

Did you know that if you are a member of a financial institution and you want to sell your car (financed through that financial institution) to someone, YOUR financial institution has to do an OFAC (Office of Foreign Asset Controls) check on the person to whom you are selling the car, to ensure the buyer isn't paying with "illegal" assets?

As is typical with any government regulatory agency, they eventually go to far. We've reached that point. I can tell you with virtual certainty that the government could go into ANY and EVERY financial institution in the country and find violations that resulted in large penalties.

Oh I hear that. I only have to deal with state and local agencies, but having gone through a WA State Dept of Revenue audit and an Employment Security audit in the last 18 months it is impossible to not violate something. And don't get me started on Regional Health District Regs.

It's like an annual shake down when the state needs money.

[YoUDeeMan]

No. I would call to jail the bastards AND rip Obama. I would have Put the names of the guilty parties, those in the Justice Department, the banks, the Administration, the White House in writing and called for their resignations. And I would stay on the story until others picked it up.

Big difference.

F typing all this on an iPhone.

Totally agree. But I'm not looking to the press to play the role of prosecutor.

I am for sunshine...let the world see your behavior instead of hiding in the shadows. Crap should be exposed and people should be held accountable.

Taibbi takes on some good subjects, but he rarely completes the job. Damned shame.