Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in 2yrs

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Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in 2yrs

Post by expandspanos »

http://www.businessinsider.com/olafur-r ... 2-4?page=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Iceland's President Explains Why The World Needs To Rethink Its Addiction To Finance


How has life in Iceland changed since the meltdown?

It’s very difficult to give a short description of how life has changed. It’s absolutely clear in Iceland, like many other countries, the financial crisis came as a profound shock, not only to the financial institutions, but also to ordinary people, the economy...

So thousands of Icelanders had to struggle with fundamental change in their economic situation, loss of income, even loss of property, increased burden of loans, unemployment, and the nation as a whole also had to face -- which somehow we were fortunate to realize early on -- that the collapse of the banks was not just an economic or financial crisis, but also developed into a very profound political, social, and even judicial crisis.

Whereas in many other countries, until recent months, there was a tendency to read this, through 2008, 2009 into 2010, primarily as an economic and financial challenge. And I think one of the reasons Iceland has come out of this crisis earlier and more effectively than anyone could have expected, even ourselves, is that early on, we approached this not just with economic and financial challenge, but also attempted to deal with the profound profound social, political, and even judicial challenges, which the collapse of the bank brought about.

And during those final months of 2008 and the early weeks of 2009, what we saw here in Iceland was a fundamental threat to the political and social stability of the nation. Iceland is one of the most stable, open, and secure democracies you can find anywhere in the world.

How the financial system could pose a fundamental threat to the political and democratic framework of Iceland illustrates the grave political and social responsibility which the market and the financial sector carries, because if a collapse in the financial sector can bring one of the most stable and secure democracies and political structures to his knees, as happened in Iceland, what could it do in countries that have less stable democratic and political history?

So this journey in the last three years has not only been difficult for ordinary people, families, homes, many companies, but it has also been a profound learning experience for the nation, not just economically, but as I said before, politically and socially as well.

Do you look at Greece and wonder if they should be learning from the Icelandic model?

I have been very hesitant and reluctant to pass judgment on what other countries should do. I saw many misleading judgments made by people in other countries with respect to Iceland in recent years that I don’t think it is wise or fair for me to tell other countries what they should do.

But I think it is our obligation in Iceland to give an open and honest description of our own experience, of the lessons we have leaned, and other people can draw their own conclusions. I have already mentioned that if you want to deal with this economic crisis, you must treat it not only as an economic challenge but also as a fundamental social, political, and even a judicial challenge.

On the judicial side, we appointed a special commission headed by a Supreme Court judge that issued a report in 9 volumes, we appointed the office of special prosecutors, we have enacted various legislation and laws that relate to the judicial and legal system.

A second lesson, interestingly enough, is in terms of our economic policies. We have, to some extent, gone against the prevailing economic orthodoxies of the American, European, and IMF model in the last 30 years. This has even been recognized by the IMF leadership.

As you know, the IMF program finished last year, and we organized a celebratory conference in October, where we said goodbye to the IMF program, and it was attended by Paul Krugman, and other prominent economists, as well as some of the leading officials of the IMF. And it was very interesting to hear them acknowledge that the IMF had probably learned more from this experience with Iceland than Iceland had learned from the IMF. It has made the IMF reconsider some of their orthodox stances on what should be the proper economic and financial response to a crisis on this nature.

Thirdly, we have, in our economic measures, tried to protect the lowest income sectors, we have to try and protect some of the elementary social and health services, and done more of that nature than has traditionally been done in dealing with such a crisis.

As everybody knows now, we did not pump public money into the failed banks. We treated them like private companies that went bankrupt, and we let them fail. Some people say we did it because we didn’t have any other option, there is clearly something in that argument, but it does not change the fact that it turned out to be a wise move or whatever reason. Whereas in many other countries, the prevailing orthodoxy is you pump public money into banks and you make taxpayers responsible for the banks in the long run, and somehow treat the banks as if they are holier institutions in the economy than manufacturing companies, commercial companies, IT companies, or whatever. And I have never really understood the argument: why a private bank or financial fund is somehow holier for the well being and future of the economy than the industrial sector, the IT sector, the creative sector, or the manufacturing sector.

So if you add all of this together and throw in the devaluation of the currency as well, it’s clear that what some people have called the Icelandic model includes a number of measures and approaches that have not been adopted in other countries. On the contrary, it includes some methods in the process that go directly against what has been adopted in other countries. But the outcome is the Icelandic economy is recovering faster and more effectively than any other economy, including the British and the American that suffered from a big financial crisis in 2008

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/olafur-r ... z2DXOzfHMo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by 89Hen »

Iceland
population: 313,183
GDP: $12.41 billion
Exports: $5.344 billion
Commercial bank prime lending rate: 7.7%

Yeah, let's model after them. GFY :coffee:
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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by Ibanez »

expandspanos wrote:http://www.businessinsider.com/olafur-r ... 2-4?page=1

Image

Iceland's President Explains Why The World Needs To Rethink Its Addiction To Finance


How has life in Iceland changed since the meltdown?

It’s very difficult to give a short description of how life has changed. It’s absolutely clear in Iceland, like many other countries, the financial crisis came as a profound shock, not only to the financial institutions, but also to ordinary people, the economy...

So thousands of Icelanders had to struggle with fundamental change in their economic situation, loss of income, even loss of property, increased burden of loans, unemployment, and the nation as a whole also had to face -- which somehow we were fortunate to realize early on -- that the collapse of the banks was not just an economic or financial crisis, but also developed into a very profound political, social, and even judicial crisis.

Whereas in many other countries, until recent months, there was a tendency to read this, through 2008, 2009 into 2010, primarily as an economic and financial challenge. And I think one of the reasons Iceland has come out of this crisis earlier and more effectively than anyone could have expected, even ourselves, is that early on, we approached this not just with economic and financial challenge, but also attempted to deal with the profound profound social, political, and even judicial challenges, which the collapse of the bank brought about.

And during those final months of 2008 and the early weeks of 2009, what we saw here in Iceland was a fundamental threat to the political and social stability of the nation. Iceland is one of the most stable, open, and secure democracies you can find anywhere in the world.

How the financial system could pose a fundamental threat to the political and democratic framework of Iceland illustrates the grave political and social responsibility which the market and the financial sector carries, because if a collapse in the financial sector can bring one of the most stable and secure democracies and political structures to his knees, as happened in Iceland, what could it do in countries that have less stable democratic and political history?

So this journey in the last three years has not only been difficult for ordinary people, families, homes, many companies, but it has also been a profound learning experience for the nation, not just economically, but as I said before, politically and socially as well.

Do you look at Greece and wonder if they should be learning from the Icelandic model?

I have been very hesitant and reluctant to pass judgment on what other countries should do. I saw many misleading judgments made by people in other countries with respect to Iceland in recent years that I don’t think it is wise or fair for me to tell other countries what they should do.

But I think it is our obligation in Iceland to give an open and honest description of our own experience, of the lessons we have leaned, and other people can draw their own conclusions. I have already mentioned that if you want to deal with this economic crisis, you must treat it not only as an economic challenge but also as a fundamental social, political, and even a judicial challenge.

On the judicial side, we appointed a special commission headed by a Supreme Court judge that issued a report in 9 volumes, we appointed the office of special prosecutors, we have enacted various legislation and laws that relate to the judicial and legal system.

A second lesson, interestingly enough, is in terms of our economic policies. We have, to some extent, gone against the prevailing economic orthodoxies of the American, European, and IMF model in the last 30 years. This has even been recognized by the IMF leadership.

As you know, the IMF program finished last year, and we organized a celebratory conference in October, where we said goodbye to the IMF program, and it was attended by Paul Krugman, and other prominent economists, as well as some of the leading officials of the IMF. And it was very interesting to hear them acknowledge that the IMF had probably learned more from this experience with Iceland than Iceland had learned from the IMF. It has made the IMF reconsider some of their orthodox stances on what should be the proper economic and financial response to a crisis on this nature.

Thirdly, we have, in our economic measures, tried to protect the lowest income sectors, we have to try and protect some of the elementary social and health services, and done more of that nature than has traditionally been done in dealing with such a crisis.

As everybody knows now, we did not pump public money into the failed banks. We treated them like private companies that went bankrupt, and we let them fail. Some people say we did it because we didn’t have any other option, there is clearly something in that argument, but it does not change the fact that it turned out to be a wise move or whatever reason. Whereas in many other countries, the prevailing orthodoxy is you pump public money into banks and you make taxpayers responsible for the banks in the long run, and somehow treat the banks as if they are holier institutions in the economy than manufacturing companies, commercial companies, IT companies, or whatever. And I have never really understood the argument: why a private bank or financial fund is somehow holier for the well being and future of the economy than the industrial sector, the IT sector, the creative sector, or the manufacturing sector.

So if you add all of this together and throw in the devaluation of the currency as well, it’s clear that what some people have called the Icelandic model includes a number of measures and approaches that have not been adopted in other countries. On the contrary, it includes some methods in the process that go directly against what has been adopted in other countries. But the outcome is the Icelandic economy is recovering faster and more effectively than any other economy, including the British and the American that suffered from a big financial crisis in 2008

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/olafur-r ... z2DXOzfHMo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You really shouldn't compare economies, especially on this scale. The American economy is vastly different than Icelands.


Btw, Iceland is apparently changing its name. :coffee:
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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by YoUDeeMan »

Speaking of ice...the nordic countries are actually gaining land each year.

Go global warming! :thumb:
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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by grizzaholic »

Cluck U wrote:Speaking of ice...the nordic countries are actually gaining land each year.

Go global warming! :thumb:
But think about the Polar Bears!!!
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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by JohnStOnge »

Yes Iceland is of dramatically different scale. But that does not automatically invalidate the inference.

In any case, we have a real problem in this country with the idea that government has to step in and ensure that everything is OK with everything; and that includes the idea of ensuring that everything is OK with the economy. We should not even be looking at what happens with the economy as government's responsibility.
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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote:Iceland
population: 313,183
GDP: $12.41 billion
Exports: $5.344 billion
Commercial bank prime lending rate: 7.7%

Yeah, let's model after them. GFY :coffee:
How does that translate to finance? :coffee:
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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by Chizzang »

If we held banks and financial institutions accountable in this country
If we let them fail instead of funding them with citizens money
They would do everything in their power to rip this country apart as they sank
The arrogance and immunity with which the financial sector runs this puppet show is embarrassing

That bailout was the first blatant announcement that this Nation functioning as a Republic is long gone

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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote:Iceland
population: 313,183
GDP: $12.41 billion
Exports: $5.344 billion
Commercial bank prime lending rate: 7.7%

Yeah, let's model after them. GFY :coffee:
How does that translate to finance? :coffee:
:| Do I really need to draw the roadmap? It would be like the Red Cross modeling their donation drive after a chess club bake sale.
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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by Pwns »

I pretty much hate our banking system but this is like comparing changing light bulbs to adding a second floor to your house.
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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote:
kalm wrote:
How does that translate to finance? :coffee:
:| Do I really need to draw the roadmap? It would be like the Red Cross modeling their donation drive after a chess club bake sale.
Not really, but yes, please draw me a map...with pretty little icons and points of interest!
And to some extent, of course, it was a complicated issue. But once I had analyzed every aspect of it, it boiled to the fundamental choice of the interest of the financial market on one hand, and the democratic will of the people on the other, and rarely in history -- but it does happen -- do we come to such crossroads that we are forced to choose.

And my answer was clearly, not only with respect to the democratic structure of Iceland, but also with respect to Europe’s contribution to the world. What is our primary legacy to countries and nations in modern times? Is the European democracy the right of the people? Capitalistic financial markets can exist in many other parts of the world, even without democracy. So in my opinion, Europe is and should be more about democracy than about financial markets. Based with this choice, it was in the end, clear that I had to choose democracy.

I’m simply saying if the collective decision-making structure of the European Union can take such wrong decisions and follow a misleading course and fundamentally unwise for the healthy future of the European banking system, as I advised before, Arguing that private banks should operate in a way that the profits go to them, but the losses go to ordinary people back home is something that they need to examine.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/olafur-r ... chFzKdRead" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:coffee:
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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by Grizalltheway »

89Hen wrote:
kalm wrote:
How does that translate to finance? :coffee:
:| Do I really need to draw the roadmap? It would be like the Red Cross modeling their donation drive after a chess club bake sale.
You're right, Canada is a much better country to emulate. :thumb:
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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by kalm »

Pwns wrote:I pretty much hate our banking system but this is like comparing changing light bulbs to adding a second floor to your house.
Banking doesn't need to be that complicated, bank bad behavior and losses should not be socialized, no bank should become TBTF, and the push to quasi-privatization and deregulation of the 1990's pretty much lead to this.

The core principles are really the same.
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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by kalm »

BTW, I read the rest of the article, and the president makes another really interesting point:
We have, however, concentrated on our recovery, and paradoxically, what we are seeing in the last two years is that many sectors in Iceland: the energy sector, the tourism sector, the IT sector, the manufacturing sector, and the fishing sector are doing better in the last two years than they did prior to the banking crisis. And you might also find it interesting that the collapse of the banks revealed to us a very interesting aspect of modern banking, which I think has been more or less overlooked in this discussion in Europe and in America in the last two or three years: the Icelandic banks, like all modern big banks in Europe and America and all the other parts of the world, are no longer banks in the old-fashioned way. They have become high-tech companies. High-ranked engineers, mathematicians, computer scientists, programmers and so on and so forth. And their success depends largely on how successful they are in hiring people with this education and capability, not necessarily those trained in business schools or finance, but in engineering, mathematics, computer science and so on.
And when the Icelandic banks collapsed, what we saw was that a great number of companies in these creative sectors, IT, high-tech, and all of those, who had the large growth potential in the previous years, but had not been able to realize it because they couldn’t get the people, due to the fact that the banks were buying up all the best engineers and mathematicians and computer scientists, suddenly had the pool of talent available to them. And within six months, all these people who came out of the banks with these qualifications had been hired. So since then you have seen a great growth period in the Icelandic IT sector, the high-tech sector, the manufacturing sector, because they could suddenly get the engineers, the mathematicians, the computer scientists.
So the lesson from this is: if you want your economy to excel in the 21st century, for the IT, information-based high-tech sectors, a big banking sector, even a very successful banking system, is bad news for your economy. You could even argue based on this that the bigger the banking sector is, the worse is the news for your economy, because their magnetic attraction of taking engineers and technically qualified people and computer scientists into the banking sector is due to high bonuses and higher salaries prevents these creative growth sectors from realizing their full potential.
We were not aware of this in the years leading up to the collapse of the banks, but once it happened, what we have seen since is an extraordinary interesting demonstration in what I have just described to you. And to me, it should urge people, both in Europe and in the United States to look at the prevailing orthodoxies of a big financialsector versus other parts of the 21st century economy, at least that’s my view. If you want to excel in the 21st century economy, it’s more important to give high priority to your creative sectors, and IT companies and high-tech companies, and not building up big banks, because if you need money you can always get it somewhere in the world in the globalized financial system. But if you lose the most valuable manpower in your creative sector, there is nothing you can do to repair that damage.
This was a very interesting lesson which in the last two years or so has become absolutely clear to us. And I think that within the U.S. and Europe, people should seriously examine what is the consequence of a high-tech, big, modern banking sector, because the banking sector today is a high-tech sector. Do you want to base your competitive advantage as a nation on that? Or do you want to do it on other companies that could become global in a relatively short time, as Facebook and Twitter and all these other companies, and Microsoft have proved. That is why you see all those companies in Iceland coming out with more growth, bigger profits, stronger marketing positions in the last two years than they have in the years prior to the collapse of the banking system.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/olafur-r ... z2DcepzDtP" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by Chizzang »

The ONLY reason we can't compare Iceland to The U.S. is because they have a few honest politicians who actually do what's best for "The Nation" and not necessarily themselves or their buddies in Finance

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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by 89Hen »

Chizzang wrote:The ONLY reason...
:roll:
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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by Chizzang »

89Hen wrote:
Chizzang wrote:The ONLY reason...
:roll:

:rofl: Don't take all the fun out of this
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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by 89Hen »

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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br2s0xJyFEM[/youtube]
It's ok 89, your economics had a good run...
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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote: :| Do I really need to draw the roadmap? It would be like the Red Cross modeling their donation drive after a chess club bake sale.
Not really, but yes, please draw me a map...with pretty little icons and points of interest!
And to some extent, of course, it was a complicated issue. But once I had analyzed every aspect of it, it boiled to the fundamental choice of the interest of the financial market on one hand, and the democratic will of the people on the other, and rarely in history -- but it does happen -- do we come to such crossroads that we are forced to choose.

And my answer was clearly, not only with respect to the democratic structure of Iceland, but also with respect to Europe’s contribution to the world. What is our primary legacy to countries and nations in modern times? Is the European democracy the right of the people? Capitalistic financial markets can exist in many other parts of the world, even without democracy. So in my opinion, Europe is and should be more about democracy than about financial markets. Based with this choice, it was in the end, clear that I had to choose democracy.

I’m simply saying if the collective decision-making structure of the European Union can take such wrong decisions and follow a misleading course and fundamentally unwise for the healthy future of the European banking system, as I advised before, Arguing that private banks should operate in a way that the profits go to them, but the losses go to ordinary people back home is something that they need to examine.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/olafur-r ... chFzKdRead" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:coffee:
Read Niall Ferguson's The Ascent of Money: A Financial History of the World. You can make a connection between the success of western nations and their financial markets.
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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote:
kalm wrote:
Not really, but yes, please draw me a map...with pretty little icons and points of interest!



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/olafur-r ... chFzKdRead" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:coffee:
Read Niall Ferguson's The Ascent of Money: A Financial History of the World. You can make a connection between the success of western nations and their financial markets.
Yeah, he's been on my horizon for awhile now. Thanks for the reminder. :thumb:
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Re: Iceland's president let the banks fold fixed economy in

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote:
UNI88 wrote:
Read Niall Ferguson's The Ascent of Money: A Financial History of the World. You can make a connection between the success of western nations and their financial markets.
Yeah, he's been on my horizon for awhile now. Thanks for the reminder. :thumb:
NP - it's a good read (or in my case, a good listen)
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Thank you for your attention to this matter - UNI88
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