Trickle Down Works!

[BlueHen86]

But even the unsuccessful CEO's get paid well.

You're not an unsuccessful CEO for very long.

Don't need to be.

[JohnStOnge]

The thing is that there is no "injustice" about paying a CEO 450 times what you pay the average assembly line worker or whatever. They are voluntary associations. If a person does not think a business pays enough for them to work on the production level they can simply opt not to work for that company. If they think they can produce what's being produced themselves they can go into business and try to do it. Nothing is being "taken" from them by virtue of the business opting to pay what it pays for production level labor.

It's like I've said before. There's this implication underlying the "income gap" and "wealth gap" complaints that there is this massive pie of wealth that rightfully belongs to everyone and some people got more than their share. That's not reality.

[AZGrizFan]

You're not an unsuccessful CEO for very long.

Don't need to be.

AGAIN, you "don't need to be" in about .05% of the CEO opportunities out there. in the REST of them you ain't gettin' rich and you ain't gettin' any kind of golden parachute if you suck at the job.

[houndawg]

Possibly in a country where the CEO doesn't make 450 times what the actual producer makes,

The "actual producer" may be just a cog in the wheel. Nothing special about him or her. The value of anything is based on supply and demand. You can find anybody to screw a bolt in. If you lose one person that does it you can easily find another.

But maybe it's not so easy to find somebody who can function as a successful CEO of a large company.

The vast majority of people can be taught how to do almost any job that doesn't require 100mph heat or a 40" vertical leap. CEOs aren't like rock stars or athletes who have a special talent most of us don't, they just get paid that way. Just as with government, names could be picked at random from a phone book. Please, John.

The foreign CEOs that are kicking the bejeezus out of our CEOs don't get paid anywhere near ours. Maybe we should be importing foreign CEOs rather than exporting the jobs of the world's most productive labor force.

[AZGrizFan]

The vast majority of people can be taught how to do almost any job that doesn't require 100mph heat or a 40" vertical leap. CEOs aren't like rock stars or athletes who have a special talent most of us don't, they just get paid that way. Just as with government, names could be picked at random from a phone book. Please, John.

That is the funniest shit you've EVER posted, 'dawg.

[kalm]

The vast majority of people can be taught how to do almost any job that doesn't require 100mph heat or a 40" vertical leap. CEOs aren't like rock stars or athletes who have a special talent most of us don't, they just get paid that way. Just as with government, names could be picked at random from a phone book. Please, John.

That is the funniest shit you've EVER posted, 'dawg.

Yeah the vast majority angle might be overplayed but so is the productivity and genius of the CEO's.

[houndawg]

That is the funniest **** you've EVER posted, 'dawg.

Yeah the vast majority angle might be overplayed but so is the productivity and genius of the CEO's.

Tell your staff you want a list of options at the next staff meeting.

[JohnStOnge]

Look, I don't know if boards are making good decisions on CEOs or not. But they're doing what they do because they think it's to their advantage to do so. They think who the CEO is makes a difference.

And sometimes it seems clear that it does. See Steve Jobs at Apple.

Bottom line is that who the CEO is is a whole hell of a lot more important than who the guy screwing a bolt in on the assembly line is.

[kalm]

Yeah the vast majority angle might be overplayed but so is the productivity and genius of the CEO's.

Tell your staff you want a list of options at the next staff meeting.

It's a benevolent Kalmunist dictatorship. They do the listening.

[AZGrizFan]

Yeah the vast majority angle might be overplayed but so is the productivity and genius of the CEO's.

Tell your staff you want a list of options at the next staff meeting.

'dawg, 90% of the "staff" want no part of the stress and pressure that comes with being the boss. And that's a fact. And 90% of the OTHER 10% don't have the brains or acumen to be CEO's. That leaves 2% of your "phone book".

[kalm]

Tell your staff you want a list of options at the next staff meeting.

'dawg, 90% of the "staff" want no part of the stress and pressure that comes with being the boss. And that's a fact. And 90% of the OTHER 10% don't have the brains or acumen to be CEO's. That leaves 2% of your "phone book".

This is probably true. I need to increase my own pay.

[houndawg]

Tell your staff you want a list of options at the next staff meeting.

'dawg, 90% of the "staff" want no part of the stress and pressure that comes with being the boss. And that's a fact. And 90% of the OTHER 10% don't have the brains or acumen to be CEO's. That leaves 2% of your "phone book".

A monkey with a dart board could do it.

[AZGrizFan]

'dawg, 90% of the "staff" want no part of the stress and pressure that comes with being the boss. And that's a fact. And 90% of the OTHER 10% don't have the brains or acumen to be CEO's. That leaves 2% of your "phone book".

A monkey with a dart board could do it.

Spoken like a wrench-turner.

You'd piss down your leg if ever given a real leadership position...

[JohnStOnge]

The vast majority of people can be taught how to do almost any job that doesn't require 100mph heat or a 40" vertical leap.

I don't think you really believe that; especially when you get into the realm of jobs that take high intelligence. I think we can agree, for instance, that you're not going to be able to teach the majority of the people to be brain surgeons. You're not going to be able to train the majority of the people to be engineers. You're not going to be able to train the majority of the people to be physicists.

Don't think for one minute that natural ability plays any less a role in areas like that than it does in areas like playing basketball or pitching. You've either got what it takes in areas like that or you don't. And if somebody doesn't have it you can try to train them all you want but it's not going to happen.

[JohnStOnge]

You'd piss down your leg if ever given a real leadership position

You know that hits on a good point: Leadership is a natural ability. Most people don't really have that. I don't think it means you have to be extremely smart. I don't think it means you have to be particularly accomplished in any specific area outside of being a leader in itself. But there are some people who are just good leaders. For some reason people are willing to follow them. Another person could say the same things, etc., and people would say, "screw off." But for some reason when a natural leader says them they say, "Yeah!"

I never have been able to put my finger on what makes somebody a successful leader. But I do think it's a talent.

[AZGrizFan]

You'd piss down your leg if ever given a real leadership position

You know that hits on a good point: Leadership is a natural ability. Most people don't really have that. I don't think it means you have to be extremely smart. I don't think it means you have to be particularly accomplished in any specific area outside of being a leader in itself. But there are some people who are just good leaders. For some reason people are willing to follow them. Another person could say the same things, etc., and people would say, "screw off." But for some reason when a natural leader says them they say, "Yeah!"

I never have been able to put my finger on what makes somebody a successful leader. But I do think it's a talent.

And it's companies and/or management that doesn't believe that that end up failing. People who get promoted to a "manager" position purely because of longevity; that guy (houndawg) who sits there every day thinking "you could train a fucking monkey to do that job" and then when given the opportunity, fail miserably at it. Which means either a) he's not smarter than a monkey or b) he's wrong. Dawg, I'll let you pick.

If being a CEO were so easy, there wouldn't be so many CEO's who fail. Period.

[kalm]

You'd piss down your leg if ever given a real leadership position

You know that hits on a good point: Leadership is a natural ability. Most people don't really have that. I don't think it means you have to be extremely smart. I don't think it means you have to be particularly accomplished in any specific area outside of being a leader in itself. But there are some people who are just good leaders. For some reason people are willing to follow them. Another person could say the same things, etc., and people would say, "screw off." But for some reason when a natural leader says them they say, "Yeah!"

I never have been able to put my finger on what makes somebody a successful leader. But I do think it's a talent.

Meanwhile, some people are thrust into leadership positions without any prior training or display of skills...and they sometimes succeed.

The world is not black and white John.

[kalm]

You know that hits on a good point: Leadership is a natural ability. Most people don't really have that. I don't think it means you have to be extremely smart. I don't think it means you have to be particularly accomplished in any specific area outside of being a leader in itself. But there are some people who are just good leaders. For some reason people are willing to follow them. Another person could say the same things, etc., and people would say, "screw off." But for some reason when a natural leader says them they say, "Yeah!"

I never have been able to put my finger on what makes somebody a successful leader. But I do think it's a talent.

And it's companies and/or management that doesn't believe that that end up failing. People who get promoted to a "manager" position purely because of longevity; that guy (houndawg) who sits there every day thinking "you could train a fucking monkey to do that job" and then when given the opportunity, fail miserably at it. Which means either a) he's not smarter than a monkey or b) he's wrong. Dawg, I'll let you pick.

If being a CEO were so easy, there wouldn't be so many CEO's who fail. Period.

See my prior post.

[JohnStOnge]

[quote]Meanwhile, some people are thrust into leadership positions without any prior training or display of skills...and they sometimes succeed.

The world is not black and white John. [quote]

That depends on what you think is meant by "black and white" in situations like that. Obviously is the scenario you describe develops the person involved had what it takes to be a leader. We may not have known it beforehand. But the person had it.

It's still the case that some people have it and some don't.

[AZGrizFan]

Meanwhile, some people are thrust into leadership positions without any prior training or display of skills...and they sometimes succeed.

The world is not black and white John.

Exactly. I was thrust into leadership positions almost from day 1 in the navy, even as an enlisted man. I didn't see MYSELF as a leader, but others apparently saw it in ME. I've had many employees like that...then again, I've inherited many "leaders" who couldn't lead their way out of a wet paper bag and who just inherited the job due to longevity. Those types rarely succeed. VERY rarely.

[kalm]

Exactly. I was thrust into leadership positions almost from day 1 in the navy, even as an enlisted man. I didn't see MYSELF as a leader, but others apparently saw it in ME. I've had many employees like that...then again, I've inherited many "leaders" who couldn't lead their way out of a wet paper bag and who just inherited the job due to longevity. Those types rarely succeed. VERY rarely.

Stop agreeing with me. It's very unbecoming of you.

[AZGrizFan]

Exactly. I was thrust into leadership positions almost from day 1 in the navy, even as an enlisted man. I didn't see MYSELF as a leader, but others apparently saw it in ME. I've had many employees like that...then again, I've inherited many "leaders" who couldn't lead their way out of a wet paper bag and who just inherited the job due to longevity. Those types rarely succeed. VERY rarely.

Stop agreeing with me. It's very unbecoming of you.

You're getting smarter in your old age.

[Ivytalk]

Exactly. I was thrust into leadership positions almost from day 1 in the navy, even as an enlisted man. I didn't see MYSELF as a leader, but others apparently saw it in ME. I've had many employees like that...then again, I've inherited many "leaders" who couldn't lead their way out of a wet paper bag and who just inherited the job due to longevity. Those types rarely succeed. VERY rarely.

AZ, you are a natural leader. The King of this board!

[AZGrizFan]

Exactly. I was thrust into leadership positions almost from day 1 in the navy, even as an enlisted man. I didn't see MYSELF as a leader, but others apparently saw it in ME. I've had many employees like that...then again, I've inherited many "leaders" who couldn't lead their way out of a wet paper bag and who just inherited the job due to longevity. Those types rarely succeed. VERY rarely.

AZ, you are a natural leader. The King of this board!

Don't you forget it, bub.

[89Hen]

A monkey with a dart board could do it.

Spoken like a wrench-turner.