White House struggles to contain uproar...

Political discussions
YoUDeeMan
Level5
Level5
Posts: 12088
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:48 am
I am a fan of: Fleecing the Stupid
A.K.A.: Delaware Homie

Re: White House struggles to contain uproar...

Post by YoUDeeMan »

JohnStOnge wrote:My thoughts as I've watched this unfold have to do with the definition of "rights." Those on Obama's side say women have a "right" to birth control products.

It goes back to the old idea that, if something is something someone else has to give to you, it can not be a right.

A right, properly defined, is something you have innately that no one should be able to take from you without cause. You have a right to life. You have a right to liberty. You have a right to pursue happieness. Those are things you innately have.

But birth control products? Obviously, if we say a woman has a "right" to such things we introduce the possibility that someone must be forced to give it to her if she is not able to obtain it for herself.

And that is fundamentally wrong. We are really, really on the wrong track in this country. Whether Obama prevails on this particular issue or not, there is no doubt that a critical mass of people has accepted the idea that people have "rights" to things other people potentially must give to them.
Apparently, cell phones for the poor are now a right. :dunce:
These signatures have a 500 character limit?

What if I have more personalities than that?
catamount man
Level3
Level3
Posts: 2608
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:17 pm

Re: White House struggles to contain uproar...

Post by catamount man »

Women need to quit acting like fucking whores and accept the responsibility of bringing children into this world. Those that tramp that are nothing more than ungodly dikes!!! Lord thank you for letting some sense creep into our politicians to stop this. SAVE THE BABIES AT ALL COSTS!!!!!!! GOD WILL JUDGE THE ABORTIONIST!!!!!!!!
User avatar
BDKJMU
Level5
Level5
Posts: 36401
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:59 am
I am a fan of: JMU
A.K.A.: BDKJMU
Location: Philly Burbs

Re: White House struggles to contain uproar...

Post by BDKJMU »

Cluck U wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:My thoughts as I've watched this unfold have to do with the definition of "rights." Those on Obama's side say women have a "right" to birth control products.

It goes back to the old idea that, if something is something someone else has to give to you, it can not be a right.

A right, properly defined, is something you have innately that no one should be able to take from you without cause. You have a right to life. You have a right to liberty. You have a right to pursue happieness. Those are things you innately have.

But birth control products? Obviously, if we say a woman has a "right" to such things we introduce the possibility that someone must be forced to give it to her if she is not able to obtain it for herself.

And that is fundamentally wrong. We are really, really on the wrong track in this country. Whether Obama prevails on this particular issue or not, there is no doubt that a critical mass of people has accepted the idea that people have "rights" to things other people potentially must give to them.
Apparently, cell phones for the poor are now a right. :dunce:
Yep. :ohno:

"Washington Footing the Cell Phone Bill for Millions of Low Income Americans

Last year, a federal program paid out $1.6 billion to cover free cell phones and the monthly bills of 12.5 million wireless accounts. The program, overseen by the FCC and intended to help low-income Americans, is popular for obvious reasons, with participation rising steeply since 2008, when the government paid $772 million for phones and monthly bills. But observers complain that the program suffers from poor oversight, in which phones go to people who don't qualify, and hundreds of thousands of those who do qualify have more than one phone.
Last summer, a Pittsburgh Tribune-Review story shed some light on a government program that relatively few Americans knew existed. The Lifeline program provides low-income Americans with free cell phones (basic ones such as those made by Tracfone, not smartphones) and covers up to 250 free minutes each month. As many as 5.5 million residents in Pennsylvania alone could qualify for the program, which is funded primarily by the Universal Service Fund fee added to the bills of land-line and wireless customers.
The program came to be after the Telecommunications Act of 1996 was passed, and the FCC created the Universal Service Fund to help "to promote the availability of quality services at just, reasonable, and affordable rates," among other things. All telecommunications carriers must pay into the fund, and many do so by tacking on a fee to each of their customers' bills. It's probably added into your monthly wireless bill and your landline bill, if you still have one.
The Universal Service Fund provides discounts on phone services, or in some cases, entirely free services to low-income Americans. The fund helps pay for landlines or cell phones, whichever the recipient prefers. There's also a one-time discount of up to $30 to cover an installation fee or a cell phone. Considering how cheap some cell phones are nowadays, the money more than covers the costs of a basic phone. Then, the fund covers phone bills to the tune of $10 a month, which typically translates as 250 minutes for wireless plans of the types of phones we're talking about. Americans who receive food stamps, Medicaid, or other federal aid, or who earn up to 135% of the federal poverty guidelines, qualify for the program.
Now, Bloomberg Businessweek reports, we have a pretty good idea of how much the program pays out -- and how quickly it's growing as more and more people find out about it. In 2011, Lifeline paid out $1.6 billion, more than double the amount paid in 2008 ($772 million).
What's more, an FCC audit of the program last year showed that many participants in the program were taking more than their fair share. According to Businessweek:
269,000 wireless Lifeline subscribers were receiving free phones and monthly service from two or more carriers.
Senator Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) has been taking a closer look at the program since she personally received an invitation to apply for a free, government-subsidized cell phone in the mail.
McCaskill has asked the FCC to investigate Lifeline. As a result, the FCC is building a database to see if a subscriber has more than one subsidized phone. In other words, until recently, such a database didn't exist.
The FCC, which announced the changes by using the euphemism that it is "modernizing" Lifeline, has set a goal of saving $200 million on the program in 2012. After eliminating nearly 270,000 of the duplicate subscriptions discovered in the audit last year, the FCC said it has already "saved" $33 million."
http://news.yahoo.com/washington-footin ... 00656.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
JMU Football:
4 Years FBS: 40-11 (.784). Highest winning percentage & least losses of all of G5 2022-2025.
Sun Belt East Champions: 2022, 2023, 2025
Sun Belt Champions: 2025
Top 25 ranked: 2022, 2023, 2025
CFP: 2025
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69203
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: White House struggles to contain uproar...

Post by kalm »

Cluck U wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:My thoughts as I've watched this unfold have to do with the definition of "rights." Those on Obama's side say women have a "right" to birth control products.

It goes back to the old idea that, if something is something someone else has to give to you, it can not be a right.

A right, properly defined, is something you have innately that no one should be able to take from you without cause. You have a right to life. You have a right to liberty. You have a right to pursue happieness. Those are things you innately have.

But birth control products? Obviously, if we say a woman has a "right" to such things we introduce the possibility that someone must be forced to give it to her if she is not able to obtain it for herself.

And that is fundamentally wrong. We are really, really on the wrong track in this country. Whether Obama prevails on this particular issue or not, there is no doubt that a critical mass of people has accepted the idea that people have "rights" to things other people potentially must give to them.
Apparently, cell phones for the poor are now a right. :dunce:
And don't forget flat screens, cable, and school lunches.

or

cheap foreign goods, nice roads and schools, and the other side of the tracks.
Image
Image
Image
JoltinJoe
Level4
Level4
Posts: 7050
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:42 pm

Re: White House struggles to contain uproar...

Post by JoltinJoe »

The mandate is an unconstitutional violation of the First Amendment and will not survive court review. Perhaps an activist district judge will uphold it, but it is doomed at the appellate level. EWTN just filed a lawsuit challenging the mandate.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/ ... ol-mandate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sad to see that HHS is claiming that Plan B and Next Choice are not abortifacients, when in fact they can and do act as abortifacients, i.e., they can act (in some case) to prevent a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterus, and thus induce the abortion of the fertilized egg. You can only say that they are contraception if you assert that pregnancy begins at the point the egg attaches to the uterus. But pro-life groups believe, and increasingly science is advocating, that pregnancy begins at conception. The notion that there is uniformity of opinion among bioethicists that pregnancy begins at implementation is not correct. I would expect some honesty from the government on this point. But instead it seems that HHS has embraced an increasingly out-dated definition of the onset of pregnancy.
catamount man
Level3
Level3
Posts: 2608
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:17 pm

Re: White House struggles to contain uproar...

Post by catamount man »

cell phones for welfare recipients is a slap in the face to anybody who actually works for a living. I see this shit on a daily basis.
User avatar
Cap'n Cat
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 13614
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:38 am
I am a fan of: Mostly myself.
A.K.A.: LabiaInTheSunlight

Re: White House struggles to contain uproar...

Post by Cap'n Cat »

catamount man wrote:cell phones for welfare recipients is a slap in the face to anybody who actually works for a living. I see this shit on a daily basis.
Image
"Bitch jes said my baby-daddy ain't gotta pay nuttin'! No she DI-IN'T!!!"
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69203
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: White House struggles to contain uproar...

Post by kalm »

catamount man wrote:cell phones for welfare recipients is a slap in the face to anybody who actually works for a living. I see this shit on a daily basis.
For consistency's sake do you feel the same way about how investment income is taxed?
Image
Image
Image
YoUDeeMan
Level5
Level5
Posts: 12088
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:48 am
I am a fan of: Fleecing the Stupid
A.K.A.: Delaware Homie

Re: White House struggles to contain uproar...

Post by YoUDeeMan »

kalm wrote:
catamount man wrote:cell phones for welfare recipients is a slap in the face to anybody who actually works for a living. I see this shit on a daily basis.
For consistency's sake do you feel the same way about how investment income is taxed?
Help me out here...are you equating the impact of investing with the need for poor people to have cell phones for which they don't pay?

I know you are for a flat tax, but at least an argument can be made that investment in businesses is good for America, and should be encouraged by our government, by way of providing companies money with which they can build their business and hire people to meet the demands of a growing economy.

Giving cell phones to people profits no one...except the makers of the cell phones. Speaking of which, someone should investigate which companies are lobbying for these "free" phones.
These signatures have a 500 character limit?

What if I have more personalities than that?
User avatar
Cap'n Cat
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 13614
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:38 am
I am a fan of: Mostly myself.
A.K.A.: LabiaInTheSunlight

Re: White House struggles to contain uproar...

Post by Cap'n Cat »

Cluck U wrote:
kalm wrote:
For consistency's sake do you feel the same way about how investment income is taxed?
Help me out here...are you equating the impact of investing with the need for poor people to have cell phones for which they don't pay?

I know you are for a flat tax, but at least an argument can be made that investment in businesses is good for America, and should be encouraged by our government, by way of providing companies money with which they can build their business and hire people to meet the demands of a growing economy.

Giving cell phones to people profits no one...except the makers of the cell phones. Speaking of which, someone should investigate which companies are lobbying for these "free" phones.
I didn't know, Clucky. Cell phones act as a quick and reliable medium between those hiring and those looking for work. In many, many instances, it pays off in the end, I'm sure. Not sayin', just sayin'. Know what I'm sayin'?
YoUDeeMan
Level5
Level5
Posts: 12088
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:48 am
I am a fan of: Fleecing the Stupid
A.K.A.: Delaware Homie

Re: White House struggles to contain uproar...

Post by YoUDeeMan »

Cap'n Cat wrote:I didn't know, Clucky. Cell phones act as a quick and reliable medium between those hiring and those looking for work. In many, many instances, it pays off in the end, I'm sure. Not sayin', just sayin'. Know what I'm sayin'?
WTF are you saying?

Seriously, what kind of jobs are being offered to those who meet the criteria for these phones? Are you telling me that these folks, several million of them, are getting 250 minutes per month to wait for a potential job offer from McDonalds? Frankly, I wouldn't want to hire a person that wouldn't want to come back in to personally check on the status of his job application.

"Man, I'm too busy hanging out here on the street to go back in and see if the manager has time enough to talk to me. Don't want to seem as though I'm actually interested in that job...that will ruin my street cred."

Stop the nonsense, Cappy.
These signatures have a 500 character limit?

What if I have more personalities than that?
User avatar
Cap'n Cat
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 13614
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:38 am
I am a fan of: Mostly myself.
A.K.A.: LabiaInTheSunlight

Re: White House struggles to contain uproar...

Post by Cap'n Cat »

Cluck U wrote:
Cap'n Cat wrote:I didn't know, Clucky. Cell phones act as a quick and reliable medium between those hiring and those looking for work. In many, many instances, it pays off in the end, I'm sure. Not sayin', just sayin'. Know what I'm sayin'?
WTF are you saying?

Seriously, what kind of jobs are being offered to those who meet the criteria for these phones? Are you telling me that these folks, several million of them, are getting 250 minutes per month to wait for a potential job offer from McDonalds? Frankly, I wouldn't want to hire a person that wouldn't want to come back in to personally check on the status of his job application.

"Man, I'm too busy hanging out here on the street to go back in and see if the manager has time enough to talk to me. Don't want to seem as though I'm actually interested in that job...that will ruin my street cred."

Stop the nonsense, Cappy.

Now you're just being a silly, extrapolation', hatin' Conk, Clucky.


:(
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69203
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: White House struggles to contain uproar...

Post by kalm »

Cluck U wrote:
kalm wrote:
For consistency's sake do you feel the same way about how investment income is taxed?
Help me out here...are you equating the impact of investing with the need for poor people to have cell phones for which they don't pay?

I know you are for a flat tax, but at least an argument can be made that investment in businesses is good for America, and should be encouraged by our government, by way of providing companies money with which they can build their business and hire people to meet the demands of a growing economy.

Giving cell phones to people profits no one...except the makers of the cell phones. Speaking of which, someone should investigate which companies are lobbying for these "free" phones.
I have a buddy who owns a small grocery store and the amount of food stamp recipients that drive up in late model SUV's chatting on their cell phone is staggering. So I get that.

My question is whether someone like Mitt Romney who's income is derived from investments should pay the same tax rate as someone who "works" for a living.
Image
Image
Image
YoUDeeMan
Level5
Level5
Posts: 12088
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:48 am
I am a fan of: Fleecing the Stupid
A.K.A.: Delaware Homie

Re: White House struggles to contain uproar...

Post by YoUDeeMan »

kalm wrote:
Cluck U wrote:
Help me out here...are you equating the impact of investing with the need for poor people to have cell phones for which they don't pay?

I know you are for a flat tax, but at least an argument can be made that investment in businesses is good for America, and should be encouraged by our government, by way of providing companies money with which they can build their business and hire people to meet the demands of a growing economy.

Giving cell phones to people profits no one...except the makers of the cell phones. Speaking of which, someone should investigate which companies are lobbying for these "free" phones.
I have a buddy who owns a small grocery store and the amount of food stamp recipients that drive up in late model SUV's chatting on their cell phone is staggering. So I get that.

My question is whether someone like Mitt Romney who's income is derived from investments should pay the same tax rate as someone who "works" for a living.
Hey, I'm with you on the flat tax...but again...at least the investment tax break can be considered a boost to the whole economy as investing should pay off in the long run. Free cell phones help no one but the moochers...and the companies that get paid by the government to spread their product...at the cost to the rest of us.
These signatures have a 500 character limit?

What if I have more personalities than that?
User avatar
UNI88
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 30635
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 am
I am a fan of: UNI
Location: Sailing the Gulf of Mexico

Re: White House struggles to contain uproar...

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote:
Cluck U wrote:
Help me out here...are you equating the impact of investing with the need for poor people to have cell phones for which they don't pay?

I know you are for a flat tax, but at least an argument can be made that investment in businesses is good for America, and should be encouraged by our government, by way of providing companies money with which they can build their business and hire people to meet the demands of a growing economy.

Giving cell phones to people profits no one...except the makers of the cell phones. Speaking of which, someone should investigate which companies are lobbying for these "free" phones.
I have a buddy who owns a small grocery store and the amount of food stamp recipients that drive up in late model SUV's chatting on their cell phone is staggering. So I get that.

My question is whether someone like Mitt Romney who's income is derived from investments should pay the same tax rate as someone who "works" for a living.
Let me flip this around so it can be considered from another angle. What about Martin and Mable Barnswallow, who busted their butts all their lives, saving and scrimping so that the could live comfortably in retirement. Marty & Mable had a 401(k) and also put some take-home money into investments which grew into quite the nest egg. Marty & Mable are living comfortably but they are not rich. Changing how their investment earnings are taxed could drastically alter their income. Marty & Mable were counting on this income when they determined when they could retire and where they could afford to live. They already paid taxes on the money that grew into the nest egg, why should it be taxed at a higher rate?

Taxing Romney others' investment earning at an indexed rate won't just impact the wealthy, there will be unintended consequences and Obama is going to piss off the AARP and others if he isn't careful.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm

MAQA - putting the Q into qrazy qanon qult qonspiracy theories since 2015.

It will probably be difficult for MAQA yahoos to overcome the Qult programming but they should give being rational & reasonable a try.

Thank you for your attention to this matter - UNI88
kalm
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 69203
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:36 pm
I am a fan of: Eastern
A.K.A.: Humus The Proud
Location: Northern Palouse

Re: White House struggles to contain uproar...

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote:
kalm wrote:
I have a buddy who owns a small grocery store and the amount of food stamp recipients that drive up in late model SUV's chatting on their cell phone is staggering. So I get that.

My question is whether someone like Mitt Romney who's income is derived from investments should pay the same tax rate as someone who "works" for a living.
Let me flip this around so it can be considered from another angle. What about Martin and Mable Barnswallow, who busted their butts all their lives, saving and scrimping so that the could live comfortably in retirement. Marty & Mable had a 401(k) and also put some take-home money into investments which grew into quite the nest egg. Marty & Mable are living comfortably but they are not rich. Changing how their investment earnings are taxed could drastically alter their income. Marty & Mable were counting on this income when they determined when they could retire and where they could afford to live. They already paid taxes on the money that grew into the nest egg, why should it be taxed at a higher rate?

Taxing Romney others' investment earning at an indexed rate won't just impact the wealthy, there will be unintended consequences and Obama is going to piss off the AARP and others if he isn't careful.
I had thought about that and you and Cluck both make good points.

Back to the original subject, I read that Catholic Charities gets 60% of it's funding from the federal government. So...
Image
Image
Image
Post Reply