RIP Christopher Hitchens

[JoltinJoe]

This conversation is way over your head. Let kalm and vidav handle your side of the argument. They're much better at defending your side.

How bout we let Hitch chime in:

[youtube][/youtube]

Hitler was Catholic - Fact.

“We are the joyous Hitler youth.
We do not need any Christian virtue.
Our leader is our savior.
The Pope and Rabbi shall be gone.
We want to be pagans once again…”

Song taught to the Hitler Youth.

[kalm]

How bout we let Hitch chime in:

[youtube][/youtube]

Hitler was Catholic - Fact.

“We are the joyous Hitler youth.
We do not need any Christian virtue.
Our leader is our savior.
The Pope and Rabbi shall be gone.
We want to be pagans once again…”

Song taught to the Hitler Youth.

Paganism is a religion.

[JoltinJoe]

DumB: "Hitler was a Catholic."

JoltinJoe: posts an anti-Catholic Hitler Youth song which refers to National Socialism as paganism.

kalm: "Paganism is a religion."

Questions:

How does your point rebut my rebuttal of DumB?

Aren't you celebrating a pagan "winter solstice" with your no-doubt delighted children this year?

[kalm]

DumB: "Hitler was a Catholic."

JoltinJoe: posts an anti-Catholic Hitler Youth song which refers to National Socialism as paganism.

kalm: "Paganism is a religion."

Questions:

How does your point rebut my rebuttal of DumB?

Aren't you celebrating a pagan "winter solstice" with your no-doubt delighted children this year?

And Christmas too! We honor other religions and traditions and the boys will be encouraged to keep an open mind and explore as they mature. Right now, they're just stoked about getting a gift 4 days early, making hand crafted presents, multiple feasts, and hanging out with friends and family (I haven't told them about the goat sacrifice yet, or the ceremonial drinking of reindeer piss, but I don't think they'll mind too much).

Days getting longer is a much more tangible reason for us to celebrate than a fabricated or co-opted story turned marketing gig that was stolen from our Norse ancestors in order to assimilate.

But in answer to your question, your song proves that even Nazi's were religious.

[andy7171]

DumB: "Hitler was a Catholic."

JoltinJoe: posts an anti-Catholic Hitler Youth song which refers to National Socialism as paganism.

kalm: "Paganism is a religion."

Questions:

How does your point rebut my rebuttal of DumB?

Aren't you celebrating a pagan "winter solstice" with your no-doubt delighted children this year?

PAGAN
People Against Goodness and Normalcy

[D1B]

How bout we let Hitch chime in:

[youtube][/youtube]

Hitler was Catholic - Fact.

“We are the joyous Hitler youth.
We do not need any Christian virtue.
Our leader is our savior.
The Pope and Rabbi shall be gone.
We want to be pagans once again…”

Song taught to the Hitler Youth.

Doesn't negate what was written in Mein Kampf, doesn't negate the belt buckles, doesn't negate the nazi soldier oath, doesn't negate the Nazi's first treaty being the condordat with the catholic church, doesn't negate that Hitler was a catholic and so was his beloved mother....

Fartin Joe strikes again!

[D1B]

DumB: "Hitler was a Catholic."

JoltinJoe: posts an anti-Catholic Hitler Youth song which refers to National Socialism as paganism.

kalm: "Paganism is a religion."

Questions:

How does your point rebut my rebuttal of DumB?

Aren't you celebrating a pagan "winter solstice" with your no-doubt delighted children this year?

And Christmas too! We honor other religions and traditions and the boys will be encouraged to keep an open mind and explore as they mature. Right now, they're just stoked about getting a gift 4 days early, making hand crafted presents, multiple feasts, and hanging out with friends and family (I haven't told them about the goat sacrifice yet, or the ceremonial drinking of reindeer piss, but I don't think they'll mind too much).

Days getting longer is a much more tangible reason for us to celebrate than a fabricated or co-opted story turned marketing gig that was stolen from our Norse ancestors in order to assimilate.

But in answer to your question, your song proves that even Nazi's were religious.

My point (and Hitchens' as well) was that Hitler really didn't do any of the actual killing. He didn't work the ovens and gas chambers. He didn't scour the ghettos for Jews and shoot them. Normal christians actually did that shit. Normal christians who have been trained (dog trained) for hundreds of years that their rulers are divine and god-like and infallible did what they were told by their objective source of truth. This is the danger of religion - turning people into sheep. Shit don't happen in a nation of freethinkers.

Hitler was catholic - this is a fact. He was an altar boy too.

[JoltinJoe]

“We are the joyous Hitler youth.
We do not need any Christian virtue.
Our leader is our savior.
The Pope and Rabbi shall be gone.
We want to be pagans once again…”

Song taught to the Hitler Youth.

Doesn't negate what was written in Mein Kampf, doesn't negate the belt buckles, doesn't negate the nazi soldier oath, doesn't negate the Nazi's first treaty being the condordat with the catholic church, doesn't negate that Hitler was a catholic and so was his beloved mother....

Fartin Joe strikes again!

It most certainly negates all of this. This is a prime example of Hitchens preying on ignorance.

Hitler recognized that Germany was largely a Protestant nation, so he had to pander to that. But his ultimate goal was to "merge" the Protestant church in Germany into a national German church under the control of the Third Reich. He appointed Ludwig Mueller as the head of the national church. I think you know who he is. You post his picture a lot on these boards, standing next to Hitler, and then lie and claim Mueller is a member of the Catholic clergy.

Hitler's ultimate goal was to destroy the Catholic Church. This is why, next to the 6,000,000 Jews who perished in the Nazi concentration camps, Catholics were the second most numerous victims.

[JoltinJoe]

Still waiting for DumB to address the Hitch slap I gave to his beloved deceased regarding Stalin.

[89Hen]

Hitler was catholic - this is a fact.

So were you.

[kalm]

DumB: "Hitler was a Catholic."

JoltinJoe: posts an anti-Catholic Hitler Youth song which refers to National Socialism as paganism.

kalm: "Paganism is a religion."

Questions:

How does your point rebut my rebuttal of DumB?

Aren't you celebrating a pagan "winter solstice" with your no-doubt delighted children this year?

PAGAN
People Against Goodness and Normalcy

So why do christians honor and celebrate their symbols and customs?

But you're right Andy I need to go get me some of them goat heads!

[Vidav]

Doesn't negate what was written in Mein Kampf, doesn't negate the belt buckles, doesn't negate the nazi soldier oath, doesn't negate the Nazi's first treaty being the condordat with the catholic church, doesn't negate that Hitler was a catholic and so was his beloved mother....

Fartin Joe strikes again!

It most certainly negates all of this. This is a prime example of Hitchens preying on ignorance.

Hitler recognized that Germany was largely a Protestant nation, so he had to pander to that. But his ultimate goal was to "merge" the Protestant church in Germany into a national German church under the control of the Third Reich. He appointed Ludwig Mueller as the head of the national church. I think you know who he is. You post his picture a lot on these boards, standing next to Hitler, and then lie and claim Mueller is a member of the Catholic clergy.

Hitler's ultimate goal was to destroy the Catholic Church. This is why, next to the 6,000,000 Jews who perished in the Nazi concentration camps, Catholics were the second most numerous victims.

I disagree. Even if everything else you just typed is true, that one bit from a song does't negate everything Hitchens said. You essentially did what he did, gave an example to prove your point then didn't back it up with anything. Now in this post you provided other information that may have done exactly that. However the bit from the song didn't negate anything.

[andy7171]

[JoltinJoe]

So why do christians honor and celebrate their symbols and customs?

Why? Because it was necessary to survive in a world in which being Christian was often punishable by death.

The Roman festival in honor of Saturn (Saturnalia) was observed, starting in about 200 BCE, around the time of the winter solstice and utilized many of the symbols now associated with Christmas. This festival continued into the first century when Christianity started to appear in the Roman empire. Initially, Rome did not intrude on the religious traditions of the lands which it occupied, but this began to change once Nero declared himself a god. Two religious groups openly resisted Nero: Christians and Jews (actually Christianity was viewed at the time as a Jewish sect). This defiance of Nero (and the later emperors) resulted in the persecution of Jews and Christians, including the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD and the infamous "Nero's Circus" in which Christian martyrs were led to their brutal deaths. (This consecrated site is now Vatican City. Ironic, no?)

Since being a Christian was often punishable by death at this time, and not participating in Saturnalia could provide evidence of being Christian, Christians would often appear to participate in the festival while secretly honoring instead the birth of Christ, rather than the birth of a pagan god. When the date of the winter solstice was moved to Dec. 25 around 400 AD, the Church continued its tradition of celebrating the birth of Christ on the winter solstice.

[JoltinJoe]

It most certainly negates all of this. This is a prime example of Hitchens preying on ignorance.

Hitler recognized that Germany was largely a Protestant nation, so he had to pander to that. But his ultimate goal was to "merge" the Protestant church in Germany into a national German church under the control of the Third Reich. He appointed Ludwig Mueller as the head of the national church. I think you know who he is. You post his picture a lot on these boards, standing next to Hitler, and then lie and claim Mueller is a member of the Catholic clergy.

Hitler's ultimate goal was to destroy the Catholic Church. This is why, next to the 6,000,000 Jews who perished in the Nazi concentration camps, Catholics were the second most numerous victims.

I disagree. Even if everything else you just typed is true, that one bit from a song does't negate everything Hitchens said. You essentially did what he did, gave an example to prove your point then didn't back it up with anything. Now in this post you provided other information that may have done exactly that. However the bit from the song didn't negate anything.

Ok, the song doesn't negate everything, but it does provide corroborative evidence of what I said. Agreed?

[D1B]

Joe, you ready for another Hitchslap? Here's Hitch on Stalin (a seminarian in the church)

[youtube][/youtube]

Stalin was deeply religious.

Hitches at his worst.

First, it is an outright lie that the Russian people viewed the czar as a "supernatural" authority. Since this formed Hitchens's premise of a "servile" people ripe for manipulation by Stalin, Hitchens's entire case deflates because it was based on his lying premise.

The Russian Orthodox Church was the prevailing Church in Russia prior the Bolshevik Revolution. Its theology, quite obviously, expressly forbids declaring any man a "God."

Second, watch how Hitchens blames the victims. He asserts that Russian was traditionally a deeply religious society, which made the Russian people servile and susceptible to accepting a totalitarianism devoid of reasoning -- because it was already a society devoid of reasoning.

Hitchens ignores, however, that the victims of Stalin's purges were the religious. In his mind, the religious were responsible for the purges of Stalin because it was their lack of reason which fostered a society susceptible to Stalin's totalitarianism.

So Hitchens is asserting that the victims of the purges are culpable for the purges. When you put his "reasoning" under a microscope, it completely fails tests of logic and rationality. Hitchens blames the victims.

Moreover, Hitchens fails the history test too. Far from being servile, the religious in Russia refused to accede to the totalitarian state. They fought the atheists' imposition of state atheism, tens of millions of them accepting prison, starvation and death even as the state systematically shut their churches.

Yet Hitchens dismisses these brave and courageous souls as "servile." Not only is this offensive, let me say that the religious in Russia who stood boldly and bravely against the atheist state were far more courageous than Hitchens -- a soft, alcoholic doughboy who whored his great intellect for celebrity and wealth.

So here's a posthumous Hitch slap on Hitchens -- a guy who ironically only appealed to the servile and unthinking.

Uhhh, yeah, Farty, we get it, you don't like Hitchens.

Annnnnd you're wrong, Stalin and Hitler were christian paranoid psychopaths who ordered other christian sheep to kill for them and be killed solely to protect their power. Atheism has nothing to do with it.

Liar Farting Joe strikes again- the russian people absolutely viewed the czar's as "divine" for generations. Nice try using the term "God" in your strawman Hitchens clearly stated that russian people veiwed their rulers as a "supernatural authority standing between earth and heaven" - this aint god, dimwit. Actually it's more like a "Pope" that catholic morons (like Fartin Joe)used to believe was divine.

Oh, the brave acceded and they bent over and took it for decades.

Hitchens is blaming the victims' religious upbringing (dog training) for the rise of dictators and tyrants. Again, a nation of poor who have been dog trained to believe that their rulers are divine and infallible is fertile ground for dictators and disaster. That a very small percentage "fought" the tyrany, doesn't negate his argument. Simple. MOF, it's happening right now in the middle east and North Korea - you should check it out.

That shit don't happen in a nation of freethinkers. If those people were trained to question authority and live by the light of reason and humanist principles, again, shit don't happen.

[kalm]

So why do christians honor and celebrate their symbols and customs?

Why? Because it was necessary to survive in a world in which being Christian was often punishable by death.

The Roman festival in honor of Saturn (Saturnalia) was observed, starting in about 200 BCE, around the time of the winter solstice and utilized many of the symbols now associated with Christmas. This festival continued into the first century when Christianity started to appear in the Roman empire. Initially, Rome did not intrude on the religious traditions of the lands which it occupied, but this began to change once Nero declared himself a god. Two religious groups openly resisted Nero: Christians and Jews (actually Christianity was viewed at the time as a Jewish sect). This defiance of Nero (and the later emperors) resulted in the persecution of Jews and Christians, including the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD and the infamous "Nero's Circus" in which Christian martyrs were led to their brutal deaths. (This consecrated site is now Vatican City. Ironic, no?)

Since being a Christian was often punishable by death at this time, and not participating in Saturnalia could provide evidence of being Christian, Christians would often appear to participate in the festival while secretly honoring instead the birth of Christ, rather than the birth of a pagan god. When the date of the winter solstice was moved to Dec. 25 around 400 AD, the Church continued its tradition of celebrating the birth of Christ on the winter solstice.

My ancestors called it Yule and it was to celebrate the return of the sun god. They chopped down big trees, hung wreaths, dressed in red and green, and drank reindeer piss.

[Vidav]

Why? Because it was necessary to survive in a world in which being Christian was often punishable by death.

The Roman festival in honor of Saturn (Saturnalia) was observed, starting in about 200 BCE, around the time of the winter solstice and utilized many of the symbols now associated with Christmas. This festival continued into the first century when Christianity started to appear in the Roman empire. Initially, Rome did not intrude on the religious traditions of the lands which it occupied, but this began to change once Nero declared himself a god. Two religious groups openly resisted Nero: Christians and Jews (actually Christianity was viewed at the time as a Jewish sect). This defiance of Nero (and the later emperors) resulted in the persecution of Jews and Christians, including the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD and the infamous "Nero's Circus" in which Christian martyrs were led to their brutal deaths. (This consecrated site is now Vatican City. Ironic, no?)

Since being a Christian was often punishable by death at this time, and not participating in Saturnalia could provide evidence of being Christian, Christians would often appear to participate in the festival while secretly honoring instead the birth of Christ, rather than the birth of a pagan god. When the date of the winter solstice was moved to Dec. 25 around 400 AD, the Church continued its tradition of celebrating the birth of Christ on the winter solstice.

My ancestors called it Yule and it was to celebrate the return of the sun god. They chopped down big trees, hung wreaths, dressed in red and green, and drank reindeer piss.

We still do all of those things at my house.

[kalm]

My ancestors called it Yule and it was to celebrate the return of the sun god. They chopped down big trees, hung wreaths, dressed in red and green, and drank reindeer piss.

We still do all of those things at my house.

[D1B]

So why do christians honor and celebrate their symbols and customs?

Why? Because it was necessary to survive in a world in which being Christian was often punishable by death.

The Roman festival in honor of Saturn (Saturnalia) was observed, starting in about 200 BCE, around the time of the winter solstice and utilized many of the symbols now associated with Christmas. This festival continued into the first century when Christianity started to appear in the Roman empire. Initially, Rome did not intrude on the religious traditions of the lands which it occupied, but this began to change once Nero declared himself a god. Two religious groups openly resisted Nero: Christians and Jews (actually Christianity was viewed at the time as a Jewish sect). This defiance of Nero (and the later emperors) resulted in the persecution of Jews and Christians, including the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD and the infamous "Nero's Circus" in which Christian martyrs were led to their brutal deaths. (This consecrated site is now Vatican City. Ironic, no?)

Since being a Christian was often punishable by death at this time, and not participating in Saturnalia could provide evidence of being Christian, Christians would often appear to participate in the festival while secretly honoring instead the birth of Christ, rather than the birth of a pagan god. When the date of the winter solstice was moved to Dec. 25 around 400 AD, the Church continued its tradition of celebrating the birth of Christ on the winter solstice.

Nice story, Fartman.

And now for the truth: Christianity is pastiche of several pagan religions combined with Jewish history and myths, frequently tweaked by rulers and politicians to appeal to and thus control the masses.

This tweaking goes on today, primarily in the catholic church, primarily covering up their fuck-ups.

[andy7171]

Warm reindeers piss or on the rocks?

[Vidav]

Warm reindeers piss or on the rocks?

Straight from the source into a bucket, then into glasses to be consumed warm.

[JoltinJoe]

Why? Because it was necessary to survive in a world in which being Christian was often punishable by death.

The Roman festival in honor of Saturn (Saturnalia) was observed, starting in about 200 BCE, around the time of the winter solstice and utilized many of the symbols now associated with Christmas. This festival continued into the first century when Christianity started to appear in the Roman empire. Initially, Rome did not intrude on the religious traditions of the lands which it occupied, but this began to change once Nero declared himself a god. Two religious groups openly resisted Nero: Christians and Jews (actually Christianity was viewed at the time as a Jewish sect). This defiance of Nero (and the later emperors) resulted in the persecution of Jews and Christians, including the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD and the infamous "Nero's Circus" in which Christian martyrs were led to their brutal deaths. (This consecrated site is now Vatican City. Ironic, no?)

Since being a Christian was often punishable by death at this time, and not participating in Saturnalia could provide evidence of being Christian, Christians would often appear to participate in the festival while secretly honoring instead the birth of Christ, rather than the birth of a pagan god. When the date of the winter solstice was moved to Dec. 25 around 400 AD, the Church continued its tradition of celebrating the birth of Christ on the winter solstice.

Nice story, Fartman.

And now for the truth: Christianity is pastiche of several pagan religions combined with Jewish history and myths, frequently tweaked by rulers and politicians to appeal to and thus control the masses.

This tweaking goes on today, primarily in the catholic church, primarily covering up their ****.

Do you realize people here are talking around your pointless postings?

[D1B]

Nice story, Fartman.

And now for the truth: Christianity is pastiche of several pagan religions combined with Jewish history and myths, frequently tweaked by rulers and politicians to appeal to and thus control the masses.

This tweaking goes on today, primarily in the catholic church, primarily covering up their ****.

Do you realize people here are talking around your pointless postings?

You're not.

[AZGrizFan]

Well, lets be real, here. There were a LOT fewer Ice Giants to begin with.