Is it safe to say that Bush 43/Obama are America's...

[citdog]

the point, which you know very well, is that the Cotton States HAD seceded and as far as the union was concerned may as well have been on the moon for they would have had as much authority and as much luck enforcing their laws if those States HAD been so located. Secession was an ACCOMPLISHED FACT and the only question was......


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Buchanan's belief that secession was illegal was established well before anyone voted to leave. And the Union had plenty enough luck in enforcing their laws - I thought that was the whole outcome of the Civil War, no? Seemed pretty conclusive there at the end.

Pres. Buchanan, after the Star of the West was forced to fly ingloriously from our harbor by Cadets from The Citadel on 9 Jan 1861, was of the attitude "Let the erring Sisters go in peace". As far as his opinion on secession.....I don't believe anyone of any consequence in the Cotton States even ASKED or CARED. It was his opinion on COERCION that I spoke of. Oh yes you enforced your laws and collected your tariff almost FIVE years and 360,000 dead yankees later. Was it worth it? While your statement about the end is correct I point your attention to the fact that what was left of the gallant Army of Northern Virginia was STILL capturing batteries and colors from you people on the morning that Marse Robert surrendered.

[Ibanez]

So are you giving James Buchanan and Millard Fillmore a pass?

You can't say that about Buchanan. He was gay and that is discrimination.










What about Carter?

[Ivytalk]

So are you giving James Buchanan and Millard Fillmore a pass?

You can't say that about Buchanan. He was gay and that is discrimination.










What about Carter?

I don't know. Was Jimmy gay, too?

[Cap'n Cat]

That's very moving, but this is the USA and we don't do long term here, we do quarterly P&L.

Agreed. That's one reason why we are doomed to failure and second class status as a nation. We will soon be the new Great Britain - tales of glory, faded into the past.

[AZGrizFan]

That's very moving, but this is the USA and we don't do long term here, we do quarterly P&L.

Agreed. That's one reason why we are doomed to failure and second class status as a nation. We will soon be the new Great Britain - tales of glory, faded into the past.

One of those rare occasions where I agree with the 'dawg.

[Cap'n Cat]

Agreed. That's one reason why we are doomed to failure and second class status as a nation. We will soon be the new Great Britain - tales of glory, faded into the past.

One of those rare occasions where I agree with the 'dawg.

But not The Cap'n? WTF????

[AZGrizFan]

One of those rare occasions where I agree with the 'dawg.

But not The Cap'n? WTF????

Nope. I don't agree with your logical extension of 'dawg's point.

[Cap'n Cat]

But not The Cap'n? WTF????

Nope. I don't agree with your logical extension of 'dawg's point.

Understandable because you and I won't live to see it. Our kids will, however.

[Ivytalk]

That's very moving, but this is the USA and we don't do long term here, we do quarterly P&L.

Agreed. That's one reason why we are doomed to failure and second class status as a nation. We will soon be the new Great Britain - tales of glory, faded into the past.

Hogwash. We don't amend our constitution every 90 days. Even the author of the article sees value in the principles of self-rule that the Constitution represents. [ Note the obvious effort to get thread back on track.] If you want a constitution with a boodle of amendments, Texas is a fair example. And Britain has no written constitution, but its form of parliamentary government has somehow withstood the test of time. Maybe that's what we need: regular no-confidence votes, and constant changes of the party in power according to the public whim. Look how well it's worked in Italy.

[GannonFan]

That's very moving, but this is the USA and we don't do long term here, we do quarterly P&L.

Agreed. That's one reason why we are doomed to failure and second class status as a nation. We will soon be the new Great Britain - tales of glory, faded into the past.

Hogwash - we're not doomed to anything. There's still no better country in the world to be born into - to live, to work, to do anything. And that's not going to change tomorrow or next year or for a long time. For all our warts, and there are many, we're still a country where anyone can succeed from any background, race, creed, sex, etc. That's what makes us special and will continue to make us special going forward. It could change, sure, and it's never going to be so easy that we just sit back collectively and put our feet up, but that's life. There isn't a finish line in terms of society and culture - just a neverending progression to do better. Life's pretty good here.

[Ivytalk]

Agreed. That's one reason why we are doomed to failure and second class status as a nation. We will soon be the new Great Britain - tales of glory, faded into the past.

Hogwash. We don't amend our constitution every 90 days. Even the author of the article sees value in the principles of self-rule that the Constitution represents. [ Note the obvious effort to get thread back on track.] If you want a constitution with a boodle of amendments, Texas is a fair example. And Britain has no written constitution, but its form of parliamentary government has somehow withstood the test of time. Maybe that's what we need: regular no-confidence votes, and constant changes of the party in power according to the public whim. Look how well it's worked in Italy.

What's that you say? This isn't the Constitution thread? Never mind.

Still Buchanan in a walk.

[Cap'n Cat]

Agree that life is still pretty good here, but it is getting progressively worse. Our politics mirror the Brits, our sensationalist media mirrors the Brits. We're in debt worse than the Brits. Etc.

[GannonFan]

Agree that life is still pretty good here, but it is getting progressively worse. Our politics mirror the Brits, our sensationalist media mirrors the Brits. We're in debt worse than the Brits. Etc.

You're just getting older and more cranky. Same's happening to me. Plus I think the music's just too darn loud these days.

[Cap'n Cat]

Much of what Bush and Obama faced/is facing is unprecedented in history, especially with regard to scale. I beat the hell out of Bush on here for years, but know that what he had to deal with was novel and devastating. Same with Obama. You could get the smartest person in world (IvyTalk, native, Baldy, D1B and Skjellyfetti) to be Prez from 2001 to present and he or she would have fared little better. Too many actors on the stage to present a cogent play these days.

[Cap'n Cat]

Agree that life is still pretty good here, but it is getting progressively worse. Our politics mirror the Brits, our sensationalist media mirrors the Brits. We're in debt worse than the Brits. Etc.

You're just getting older and more cranky. Same's happening to me. Plus I think the music's just too darn loud these days.

And you are correct about older and more cranky.

[AZGrizFan]

Much of what Bush and Obama faced/is facing is unprecedented in history, especially with regard to scale. I beat the hell out of Bush on here for years, but know that what he had to deal with was novel and devastating. Same with Obama. You could get the smartest person in world (IvyTalk, native, Baldy, D1B and Skjellyfetti) to be Prez from 2001 to present and he or she would have fared little better. Too many actors on the stage to present a cogent play these days.

This is your official notice that I have reported this post, and contacted Cap'n Cat to ensure that he's aware his account has been hacked. Please cease and desist immediately, and return control of the good Cap'n's account to his computer.

You have been warned. I have resources. I am not afraid to use them. Papers are being prepared as we speak unless you act now to extricate yourself from this situation. Cap'n Cat would not be happy with you espousing such views and besmirching his good uberliberal name.

That is all.

[Cap'n Cat]

Much of what Bush and Obama faced/is facing is unprecedented in history, especially with regard to scale. I beat the hell out of Bush on here for years, but know that what he had to deal with was novel and devastating. Same with Obama. You could get the smartest person in world (IvyTalk, native, Baldy, D1B and Skjellyfetti) to be Prez from 2001 to present and he or she would have fared little better. Too many actors on the stage to present a cogent play these days.

This is your official notice that I have reported this post, and contacted Cap'n Cat to ensure that he's aware his account has been hacked. Please cease and desist immediately, and return control of the good Cap'n's account to his computer.

You have been warned. I have resources. I am not afraid to use them. Papers are being prepared as we speak unless you act now to extricate yourself from this situation. Cap'n Cat would not be happy with you espousing such views and besmirching his good uberliberal name.

That is all.

Cap'n Cat is an out-of-control liberal mostly for show. In reality, he is a pragmatist, a realist and a patriot. I'm very little different from you, kinda like chimpanzees and humans sharing 98% of the same DNA.....



"Conk, Donk? In the end, who gives a fvck?"

[Ibanez]

Much of what Bush and Obama faced/is facing is unprecedented in history, especially with regard to scale. I beat the hell out of Bush on here for years, but know that what he had to deal with was novel and devastating. Same with Obama. You could get the smartest person in world (IvyTalk, native, Baldy, D1B and Skjellyfetti) to be Prez from 2001 to present and he or she would have fared little better. Too many actors on the stage to present a cogent play these days.

Well shave my ass and call me Bandl....what a great post!

[Ivytalk]

This is your official notice that I have reported this post, and contacted Cap'n Cat to ensure that he's aware his account has been hacked. Please cease and desist immediately, and return control of the good Cap'n's account to his computer.

You have been warned. I have resources. I am not afraid to use them. Papers are being prepared as we speak unless you act now to extricate yourself from this situation. Cap'n Cat would not be happy with you espousing such views and besmirching his good uberliberal name.

That is all.

Cap'n Cat is an out-of-control liberal mostly for show. In reality, he is a pragmatist, a realist and a patriot. I'm very little different from you, kinda like chimpanzees and humans sharing 98% of the same DNA.....



"Conk, Donk? In the end, who gives a fvck?"

Is that Helen Thomas after electrolysis?