Bush: "Damn right I approved Abu Ghraib"

[Skjellyfetti]

and said he would "do it again to save lives."

Bush made the comment while speaking to Grand Rapids High School Economic Club.

[native]

and said he would "do it again to save lives."

Bush made the comment while speaking to Grand Rapids High School Economic Club.

This is bullsh!t, sjkelly. Bush approved nosuch thing.

Abu Ghraib was the result of the actions of seven idiots from the National Guard who did not have enough adult supervision.

[Skjellyfetti]

It was sarcasm, nativist.

If you allow torture, it opens up a can of worms. Where do you draw the line? What forms of torture are ok? What forms of torture are not ok? Who is it ok to torture? Who is it not ok to torture?

Since we are ok with waterboarding... what are our standards on prisoner abuse... ah, I mean "enhanced interrogation"...? Do we have standards?

[native]

It was sarcasm, nativist.

If you allow torture, it opens up a can of worms. Where do you draw the line? What forms of torture are ok? What forms of torture are not ok? Who is it ok to torture? Who is it not ok to torture?

Since we are ok with waterboarding... what are our standards on prisoner abuse... ah, I mean "enhanced interrogation"...? Do we have standards?

Fail.

Thank God you are not in charge of anything. I almost feel sorry for useless souls such as yourself ... but not quite.

[youngterrier]

It was sarcasm, nativist.

If you allow torture, it opens up a can of worms. Where do you draw the line? What forms of torture are ok? What forms of torture are not ok? Who is it ok to torture? Who is it not ok to torture?

Since we are ok with waterboarding... what are our standards on prisoner abuse... ah, I mean "enhanced interrogation"...? Do we have standards?

Fail.

Thank God you are not in charge of anything. I almost feel sorry for useless souls such as yourself ... but not quite.

I hate to stick my head in the window and not really add substance but.......

Fail. Answer the damn questions

[AZGrizFan]

It was sarcasm, nativist.

If you allow torture, it opens up a can of worms. Where do you draw the line? What forms of torture are ok? What forms of torture are not ok? Who is it ok to torture? Who is it not ok to torture?

Since we are ok with waterboarding... what are our standards on prisoner abuse... ah, I mean "enhanced interrogation"...? Do we have standards?

Where do YOU draw the line, KY? What is "interrogation" and what is torture? is depriving them of sleep torture to you? Is depriving them of food and water torture to you?

[Cap'n Cat]

It was sarcasm, nativist.

If you allow torture, it opens up a can of worms. Where do you draw the line? What forms of torture are ok? What forms of torture are not ok? Who is it ok to torture? Who is it not ok to torture?

Since we are ok with waterboarding... what are our standards on prisoner abuse... ah, I mean "enhanced interrogation"...? Do we have standards?

Where do YOU draw the line, KY? What is "interrogation" and what is torture? is depriving them of sleep torture to you? Is depriving them of food and water torture to you?

Yes and yes, GI Joe.

[93henfan]

Poor Iraqis. They'd never do anything like that to us.

Spoiler: show

[grizzaholic]

Where do YOU draw the line, KY? What is "interrogation" and what is torture? is depriving them of sleep torture to you? Is depriving them of food and water torture to you?

Yes and yes, GI Joe.

So Cap'n. If someone you knew, family/friend, was kidnapped and you had one of the kidnappers how would you get the info you needed to find the missing family/friend?

Give him a nice comfy bed and a chocolate croissant with a big glass of fresh squeezed OJ and ask him nicely? What if he told you to fuck yourself....what then? Just let your family/friend find his own way back?

[BlueHen86]

It was sarcasm, nativist.

If you allow torture, it opens up a can of worms. Where do you draw the line? What forms of torture are ok? What forms of torture are not ok? Who is it ok to torture? Who is it not ok to torture?

Since we are ok with waterboarding... what are our standards on prisoner abuse... ah, I mean "enhanced interrogation"...? Do we have standards?

Where do YOU draw the line, KY? What is "interrogation" and what is torture? is depriving them of sleep torture to you? Is depriving them of food and water torture to you?

I'd be okay with letting the courts decide those issues. If the courts decide that waterboarding is not torture I'd be okay with using it.

[JMU DJ]

Fail.

Thank God you are not in charge of anything. I almost feel sorry for useless souls such as yourself ... but not quite.

I hate to stick my head in the window and not really add substance but.......

Fail. Answer the damn questions

... not really gonna add any more substance but....

[kalm]

How can one believe in American exceptionalism without recognizing our own laws, signed treaties, and due process?

[Skjellyfetti]

Poor Iraqis. They'd never do anything like that to us.

Spoiler: show

"Great as the provocation has been in dealing with foes who habitually resort to treachery, murder and torture against our men, nothing can justify the use of torture or inhumane conduct of any kind on the part of the American Army."
-Elihu Root, Secretary of War, 1902. Speaking on the subject of the "water cure"

Just because our enemies do some fucked up shit, doesn't mean it's ok for us to.

[BlueHen86]

How can one believe in American exceptionalism without recognizing our own laws, signed treaties, and due process?

Based on what I've been reading on the waterboarding thread most people don't. They like our laws and constitution until something bad happens, then they start with the "anything goes when it comes to protecting Americans crap".

If we start trashing our laws who exactly are we protecting ourselves from?

[Grizalltheway]

Poor Iraqis. They'd never do anything like that to us.

Spoiler: show

"Great as the provocation has been in dealing with foes who habitually resort to treachery, murder and torture against our men, nothing can justify the use of torture or inhumane conduct of any kind on the part of the American Army."
-Elihu Root, Secretary of War, 1902. Speaking on the subject of the "water cure"

Just because our enemies do some fucked up shit, doesn't mean it's ok for us to.

He was clearly nothing but a liberal pussy.

[AZGrizFan]

If we continue to insist on openly criticizing our military's performance while insisting on playing by a completely different set of rules, we might as well just shut 'er down and let the inmates run the asylum, so to speak.

[Chizzang]

If we continue to insist on openly criticizing our military's performance while insisting on playing by a completely different set of rules, we might as well just shut 'er down and let the inmates run the asylum, so to speak.

That's always seemed like a strange position to take...
Firstly "We" are the military - as in - we decide what our military does and how it behaves

Secondly
"we" play by different rules for a whole bunch of reasons but mostly because we get involved in sh!t that has nothing at all to do with us... See: Team America World Police

In more ways than most people would like to admit - we're our own worst enemy

[ASUG8]

Poor Iraqis. They'd never do anything like that to us.

Spoiler: show

"Great as the provocation has been in dealing with foes who habitually resort to treachery, murder and torture against our men, nothing can justify the use of torture or inhumane conduct of any kind on the part of the American Army."
-Elihu Root, Secretary of War, 1902. Speaking on the subject of the "water cure"

Just because our enemies do some fucked up shit, doesn't mean it's ok for us to.

That's a great thought - fits right in to your concept of what the world should be like.

Everybody makes the same amount of money
No war
No torture or need for it
We all suckle at the government teat and are grateful for the opportunity to do so
Work or don't - get paid anyway!!!

You're great at pulling a bunch of dated quotes out to demonstrate an ideal state, but a bit short on the realization that our enemies don't fight fair, don't have rules, could care less about Geneva convention, would rather behead someone than negotiate, etc.

That being said, Abu Ghraib was an atrocity and has been dealt with. I'm not sure it rises to the level of hanging a bunch of dead, mutilated, burned US military personnel from a bridge, but maybe that's just me.

[blueballs]

What these photos demonstrate is a massive lack of professionalism and discipline on the part of a few national guard personnel, who were dealt with swiftly and decisively- not a systematic policy or culture of torture and abuse by the US military and intelligence community as the left and our political enemies around the world would have everybody believe.

For anybody to draw any kind of parallel between waterboarding high value prisoners like Khalid Sheik Mohammed for the purposes of gaining intelligence that lead to disassembling the al Qaeda hierarchy and the pranks of of these 20 something kids demonstrates a lack of intelligence and understanding of the big picture that makes it impossible to carry on a civil debate.

Massive fail and a couple of minutes of my life I will sadly never get back...

[AZGrizFan]

If we continue to insist on openly criticizing our military's performance while insisting on playing by a completely different set of rules, we might as well just shut 'er down and let the inmates run the asylum, so to speak.

That's always seemed like a strange position to take...
Firstly "We" are the military - as in - we decide what our military does and how it behaves

Secondly
"we" play by different rules for a whole bunch of reasons but mostly because we get involved in sh!t that has nothing at all to do with us... See: Team America World Police

In more ways than most people would like to admit - we're our own worst enemy

Agreed. We ARE our own worst enemy, in more ways than one: The biggest one being we continue to try to be the worlds policemen with both hands tied behind our backs, then wonder in social circles why it doesn't seem to be working. Either:

a) take the restrictions off and bring the pain or
b) pack 'em up and get the fuck out

We can continue to kid ourselves that we're "morally superior" because we don't do "those things', but I guarantee you the enemy is laughing their ASSES off as they behead, REALLY torture, then burn and mutilate the corpses of OUR soldiers.

But godforfuckingBID you blasphemy Mohammad by making a cartoon of him. Then all HELL breaks loose.

[Chizzang]

Agreed. We ARE our own worst enemy, in more ways than one: The biggest one being we continue to try to be the worlds policemen with both hands tied behind our backs, then wonder in social circles why it doesn't seem to be working. Either:

a) take the restrictions off and bring the pain or
b) pack 'em up and get the fuck out

We can continue to kid ourselves that we're "morally superior" because we don't do "those things', but I guarantee you the enemy is laughing their ASSES off as they behead, REALLY torture, then burn and mutilate the corpses of OUR soldiers.

But godforfuckingBID you blasphemy Mohammad by making a cartoon of him. Then all HELL breaks loose.

I have no idea what our enemies are doing...
It's difficult to know because we've made an enemy of the entire world (almost)

Agreed... we do pretend to be Morally Superior
and continue to postulate from that position in the most indignant and ignorant manner

Basically I agree with your post

[Skjellyfetti]

That's a great thought - fits right in to your concept of what the world should be like.

Everybody makes the same amount of money
No war
No torture or need for it
We all suckle at the government teat and are grateful for the opportunity to do so
Work or don't - get paid anyway!!!

The only thing on that list I agree with is "no torture." Everything else is just bullshit and you know that. You're just trying to pigeonhole me as some radical loon.

When have I ever said anything close to believing everyone should make the same amount of torture.

When have I ever said there should be no war?

When have I ever said anything close to: "we all suckle from the government and are grateful for the opportunity to do so"...?

When have I ever said anything close to any of this bullshit?

That being said, Abu Ghraib was an atrocity and has been dealt with. I'm not sure it rises to the level of hanging a bunch of dead, mutilated, burned US military personnel from a bridge, but maybe that's just me.

You think I'm equating the two? Where did you get that?

I'm just saying because they do fucked up shit (there's a whole wide spectrum of fucked up shit) doesn't mean we should do fucked up shit. We're supposed to be better than that. We're supposed to have higher ideal, morals, etc. than terrorists. Right?



Right?

[AZGrizFan]

The only thing on that list I agree with is "no torture." Everything else is just bullshit and you know that. You're just trying to pigeonhole me as some radical loon.

When have I ever said anything close to believing everyone should make the same amount of torture.

I'm sorry, but that little slip is funny as HELL.

[YoUDeeMan]

That's a great thought - fits right in to your concept of what the world should be like.

Everybody makes the same amount of money
No war
No torture or need for it
We all suckle at the government teat and are grateful for the opportunity to do so
Work or don't - get paid anyway!!!

The only thing on that list I agree with is "no torture." Everything else is just bullshit and you know that. You're just trying to pigeonhole me as some radical loon.

When have I ever said anything close to believing everyone should make the same amount of torture.

When have I ever said there should be no war?

When have I ever said anything close to: "we all suckle from the government and are grateful for the opportunity to do so"...?

When have I ever said anything close to any of this bullshit?

You are for the health care plan to cover everyone...even those who supposedly can't afford to pay anything. That is sucking up to the government teat.

You are for letting in a whole host of immigrants...many of whom won't get jobs but whose children will get free education. That is sucking off the government teat.

You are for free health care for immigrants...that is sucking off the government teat.

You are for the redistribution of income on a scale that hasn't been seen for decades. The driving force behind that is to see more equalization of income.

IIRC, you were for expanding unemployment. That means that people get paid whether they work or not.

So, yes, you did say some of those things. And you are a radical loon.

Shall I go on?

[CID1990]

I think the guy making the mangina in the first pisture is pretty cool, in a Silence of the Lambs kind of way.