Individual CS Poll Ballots-11/1

[SuperHornet]

My poll problem is three-fold

First is that my initial poll had some crazy teams. (As did many of yours. The first couple of polls are ALWAYS crazy, and it takes a while to settle out.)

Second, my philosophy is that I generally try to reward teams for wins and drop them for losses. I'm not always consistent with how I do that, though.

Third, I'm myopic for a) Sac, b) Liberty, c) the rest of the Sky (particularly Montana, which has been the class of the conference since I've been aware of it), generally in that order.

Fourth, given the plethora of teams, it's hard to stay abreast of who's really good, kinda good, and cr@p.

I probably should have dropped Sac out weeks ago, but given Problems 3 and 2, I had them so high to begin with that they never completely dropped out.

That's it in a nutshell.

[CatMom]

I'm not your therapist....just deal with your issues.

[SuperHornet]

What, my placement of Texas State is bad, too?

[Gil Dobie]

Just an FYI, Indiana St is 3-3 vs DI schools while NDSU is 5-3 with a win over Indiana St.

[CatMom]

What, my placement of Texas State is bad, too?

You're kidding, right?

[CoachL]

I feel like this is a meeting of "Pollsters Anonymous".

"Hi, my name is CoachL and I vote in the CS.com poll..."

1. Jacksonville St.
2. William & Mary
3. Appalachian St.
4. Delaware
5. Villanova
6. Eastern Washington
7. Southeast Missouri St.
8. Wofford
9. Bethune-Cookman
10. Stephen F. Austin
11. South Carolina St.
12. Northern Iowa
13. New Hampshire
14. Massachusetts
15. Montana St.
16. Robert Morris
17. Cal Poly
18. Chattanooga
19. Montana
20. Liberty
21. Jacksonville
22. Pennsylvania
23. Grambling St.
24. Lehigh
25. Western Illinois

Dropped this week: Richmond, Northern Arizona
Added this week: Lehigh, Western Illinois

I know that I'm going to regret this!

[siuham]

SC State is all you should seriously regret.

Seriously. The best team they've beat is Hampton? FAMU? Hampton just lost to ODU. FAMU hasn't played Hampton or BCCU yet so their record is inflated against bad teams.

[ToTheLeft]

Yeah, other than SCSU it looks fine to me.

[ToTheLeft]

Basically, to me, a good top 25 is going to have...

1. Jacksonville St.
2. William & Mary
3. Appalachian St.
4. Delaware
5. Villanova
6. Eastern Washington
7. Southeast Missouri St.
8. Wofford

7 of those 8 in the top 8. I can understand not having Nova or SEMO St. or something, but 7 of those should be top 8.

After that, 9-20 is a crap shoot of playoff contending teams.

21-25 is throw ons from the SWAC, Ivy, and PFL, and/or 4-4 teams, depending on if you prefer wins but no substance, or substance and no wins.... and Montana.

[CatMom]

Basically, to me, a good top 25 is going to have...

1. Jacksonville St.
2. William & Mary
3. Appalachian St.
4. Delaware
5. Villanova
6. Eastern Washington
7. Southeast Missouri St.
8. Wofford

7 of those 8 in the top 8. I can understand not having Nova or SEMO St. or something, but 7 of those should be top 8.

After that, 9-20 is a crap shoot of playoff contending teams.

21-25 is throw ons from the SWAC, Ivy, and PFL, and/or 4-4 teams, depending on if you prefer wins but no substance, or substance and no wins.... and Montana.

Wow that's sounds like my poll.

I will admit to homerism as it pertains to TXST. Looking over our spreadsheet I figured the other polls would have people throwing in other 4-4 teams whose losses were all in their own conference, so why the hell not TXST? We won't win anything this year but we have beaten 3 ranked teams (If you count SUU). Quality wins, crap losses. One's just as good as the other. So I stuck us at 25 cause I had nobody else I wanted to stick in there.

[ToTheLeft]

TXST has as good if not better wins than most anyone else you could throw on the end of your ballot. The losses are bad too but it's not too bad of a case of homerism, there is a somewhat legit resume there as a borderline top 25.

[CoachL]

SC State is all you should seriously regret.

Seriously. The best team they've beat is Hampton? FAMU? Hampton just lost to ODU. FAMU hasn't played Hampton or BCCU yet so their record is inflated against bad teams.

Yeah, they are probably a bit high.

Looking at my voting record over the season, I would guess that SCSU comes in at #11 because:

1.) They began the year quite high on my watch list.

2.) I wasn't about to punish them early for their loss at Georgia Tech, and give them credit for the scheduling.

3.) Only FCS loss to higher-ranked Bethune-Cookman.

4.) Victory in Week #8 over Hampton, who many had knocking on the ranking door before that game.

5.) Teams ahead of them keep losing. (This turns out to be a big reason!)

Even so... I accept your valid weak-schedule points. #11 may be a bit high, but I definitely believe that they belong in the Top 20.

[Mvemjsunpx]

My Week 9 ballot (previous week in parentheses)…

• 1. Appalachian St. (1)
  2. William & Mary (2)
  3. Delaware (3)
  4. Villanova (5)
  5. Jacksonville St. (6)
  6. Wofford (7)
  7. Eastern Washington (8)
  8. Stephen F. Austin (4)
  9. New Hampshire (12)
  10. Bethune-Cookman (13)
  11. Grambling (14)
  12. Montana St. (15)
  13. Liberty (17)
  14. Montana (10)
  15. Southeast Missouri St. (18)
  16. Robert Morris (20)
  17. Northern Iowa (21)
  18. Massachusetts (NR)
  19. South Carolina St. (23)
  20. Penn (24)
  21. Sacramento St. (NR)
  22. Weber St. (NR)
  23. Tennessee-Chattanooga (9)
  24. Southern Utah (NR)
  25. Western Illinois (NR)
  
  Most Significant W - Weber St.
  Most Significant L - Northern Arizona

Next 5 (in order): North Dakota St., Cal Poly (22), Northern Arizona (11), Furman, Jackson St.

Others Considered (NOT in order): Lehigh, Richmond, James Madison (16), Georgia Southern (19), Dayton, Jacksonville, Old Dominion

Dropped from Consideration: Sam Houston St. (25), South Dakota St., Southern Illinois

[siuham]

SC State is all you should seriously regret.

Seriously. The best team they've beat is Hampton? FAMU? Hampton just lost to ODU. FAMU hasn't played Hampton or BCCU yet so their record is inflated against bad teams.

Yeah, they are probably a bit high.

Looking at my voting record over the season, I would guess that SCSU comes in at #11 because:

1.) They began the year quite high on my watch list.

2.) I wasn't about to punish them early for their loss at Georgia Tech, and give them credit for the scheduling.

3.) Only FCS loss to higher-ranked Bethune-Cookman.

4.) Victory in Week #8 over Hampton, who many had knocking on the ranking door before that game.

5.) Teams ahead of them keep losing. (This turns out to be a big reason!)

Even so... I accept your valid weak-schedule points. #11 may be a bit high, but I definitely believe that they belong in the Top 20.

Bethune-Cookman is ranked higher only because the beat the highly ranked SC State team. Hampton was 'knocking on the ranking door' because they had beat up three teams with one win a piece, and two others that are 3-5. They lost to SC State and now ODU, the only two teams with any bit of prowess they've faced.

#2 is a non-point, I never drop teams for losing to an FBS team unless a team below them happens to really impress me and they get jumped for that reason alone.

I understand that teams ahead lose, and that is an effect that happens in polls (See: SE Missouri State, highly ranked and the only team worth a damn they beat is SIU, and they're now 2-4 against FCS)

I don't want to make this seem like I'm bashing you, I'm just trying to get people to think about some of these things in the manner I do. The main point of which being: Just because a team is ranked high doesn't mean they deserve to stay ranked when they lose their only difficult games (See: JMU, SC State, Cal Poly, NAU, etc.)

And on that same topic, just because a team is ranked in the bottom half and teams ahead of them continue losing doesn't mean they necessarily need to continually move up, teams below them can be more impressive (See: Liberty, RMU, SEMO)

[Knucklehead]

11: Robert Morris Colonials
12: Liberty Flames

Seriously silly! I mean, yes they beal LU, but there is no way they should be that high.

[CoachL]

I don't want to make this seem like I'm bashing you, I'm just trying to get people to think about some of these things in the manner I do.

No problem! At least you're honest about it. That's why some people love to discuss politics.

I posted my poll to get some feedback/bitching/flames/points to think about. This is why I think that the AGS and CS polls are generally more "accurate" than the TSN and Coaches' polls - the voters here discuss and debate their teams and their ideas. Do you think for one minute that the voters in the other polls actually discuss with dozens of other (relatively) knowledgeable FCS folks about the width and breadth of FCS football?

All of your points are well-taken. My three quick comments are:

1.) There are very few teams that are dominant this season and obviously and undeniably belong in the Top 25. There are decent arguments for and against every team on the list, and for and against every team that doesn't make the list. It's that kind of a topsy-turvy year. Gotta love it!

2.) As a football coach I come to this with a slightly different perspective. I know how hard it is to win each and every week, even against "subpar" competition. Winning makes a team a winner, no matter what people may think about the competition. "Upset" is in the dictionary for a reason. I don't hold a team's schedule against them as much as some others. You play the hand you're dealt. Obviously, I'm going to give far more credit to a team that beats Delaware or Appalachian State than a team that beats Valparaiso or North Carolina A&T. However, in the end winning is my ultimate criterion.

3.) This is the FCS. The Championship is ultimately decided on the field. These polls are cheap entertainment. Sit back, relax, and enjoy!

[bobbythekidd]

Fourth, given the plethora of teams, it's hard to stay abreast of who's really good, kinda good, and cr@p.

And that is why I'm not voting this year. I don't have the time to keep with everything. Don't spoil the collective effort of everyone else just because you don't have time to put in the effort.

[ToTheLeft]

11: Robert Morris Colonials
12: Liberty Flames

Seriously silly! I mean, yes they beal LU, but there is no way they should be that high.

Where's your poll? And why is it silly?

RMU has beat a top 15 team and only lost once to a borderline top 25, if anything, the silliness is LU being that high. What has LU done?

You sound like UNHWildcats with that kind of comment.

[UNHWildCats]

Good poll SuperHornet...I guess my only question is, why is Villanova rated so low?

That's based on earlier polls where I should have had them ranked but didn't. They just came back in this week. I completely forgot about them a while back.

so because you forgot about them, you are still forcing them to earn a spot they already earned? And Sac State #1? You're a fucking joke.

[T-Dog]

1: Sacramento State Hornets (7)
2: Liberty Flames (4)
3: Appalachian State Mountaineers (2)
4: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens (3)
5: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks (5)
6: Dayton Flyers (8)
7: William & Mary Tribe (6)
8: Cal Poly Mustangs (11)
9: Northern Iowa Panthers (12)
10: Eastern Washington Eagles (13)
11: Montana State Bobcats (9)
12: Massachusetts Minutemen (14)
13: New Hampshire Wildcats (16)
14: Weber State Wildcats (18)
15: North Dakota State Bison (19)
16: Texas State Bobcats (20)
17: Jacksonville Dolphins (23)
18: Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks (10)
19: Jacksonville State Gamecocks (21)
20: Yale Bulldogs (17)
21: Robert Morris Colonials (22)
22: James Madison Dukes (15)
23: Wofford Terriers (25)
24: Villanova Wildcats (NR)
25: Grambling State Tigers (NR)

Dropped Out: Furman Paladins (24), Montana Grizzlies (1)

And here's mine.

1.Appalachian St.
2.Jacksonville St.
3.William & Mary
4.Wofford
5.Delaware
6.Villanova
7.Bethune-Cookman
8.Montana St.
9.Southeast Missouri State
10.Eastern Washington
11.Stephen F. Austin
12.Robert Morris
13.Western Illinois
14.Liberty
15.UNI
16.Cal Poly
17.Chattanooga
18.New Hampshire
19.Montana
20.Massachusetts
21.Pennsylvania
22.Grambling State
23.South Carolina St.
24.Lehigh
25.Weber State

[DukeJack]

1: Appalachian State Mountaineers
2: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
3: William & Mary Tribe
4: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
5: Wofford Terriers
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: Eastern Washington Eagles
8: Montana State Bobcats
9: Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks
10: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
11: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
12: Western Illinois Leathernecks
13: Robert Morris Colonials
14: Cal Poly Mustangs
15: Montana Grizzlies
16: Northern Iowa Panthers
17: Liberty Flames
18: New Hampshire Wildcats
19: Massachusetts Minutemen
20: Chattanooga Mocs
21: Pennsylvania Quakers
22: Sacramento State Hornets
23: Grambling State Tigers
24: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
25: Weber State Wildcats

[siuham]

@CoachL: I definitely sound more arrogant in the end of that post than I meant

By 'think like me' I meant be critical of more than a Win-Loss record. Polls like this can succumb to that kind of voting and it makes them poor because of it.

[89Hen]

For once, I'll post my myopic ballot. Let the smack begin. BTW, I just realized that in my myopic eagerness, I screwed up. I did NOT mean to drop Montana from 1 to out, though I'm sure CAA would love to see that. I SHOULD have Montana at about 3 or 4, but I screwed it up.

1: Sacramento State Hornets (7)
2: Liberty Flames (4)
3: Appalachian State Mountaineers (2)
4: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens (3)
5: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks (5)
6: Dayton Flyers (8)
7: William & Mary Tribe (6)
8: Cal Poly Mustangs (11)
9: Northern Iowa Panthers (12)
10: Eastern Washington Eagles (13)
11: Montana State Bobcats (9)
12: Massachusetts Minutemen (14)
13: New Hampshire Wildcats (16)
14: Weber State Wildcats (18)
15: North Dakota State Bison (19)
16: Texas State Bobcats (20)
17: Jacksonville Dolphins (23)
18: Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks (10)
19: Jacksonville State Gamecocks (21)
20: Yale Bulldogs (17)
21: Robert Morris Colonials (22)
22: James Madison Dukes (15)
23: Wofford Terriers (25)
24: Villanova Wildcats (NR)
25: Grambling State Tigers (NR)

Dropped Out: Furman Paladins (24), Montana Grizzlies (1)

So, other than my glaring mistake and my myopianism, I'd be interested to hear what you think about the rest of it.

Pete, is that you?

[JALMOND]

My poll problem is three-fold

First is that my initial poll had some crazy teams. (As did many of yours. The first couple of polls are ALWAYS crazy, and it takes a while to settle out.)

Second, my philosophy is that I generally try to reward teams for wins and drop them for losses. I'm not always consistent with how I do that, though.

Third, I'm myopic for a) Sac, b) Liberty, c) the rest of the Sky (particularly Montana, which has been the class of the conference since I've been aware of it), generally in that order.

Fourth, given the plethora of teams, it's hard to stay abreast of who's really good, kinda good, and cr@p.

I probably should have dropped Sac out weeks ago, but given Problems 3 and 2, I had them so high to begin with that they never completely dropped out.

That's it in a nutshell.

I'm not one to tell others how to vote, but I think you're reading too much into this. For me, I look at conference losses, specifically home conference losses. Basically, if everyone wins their home games and lose their road games in conference, all the teams will end up at .500 (or close to it in conferences with an odd number of games). Good teams will win conference games on the road, bad teams will lose conference games at home. The more games you win on the road in conference, the better placement you should be at the end of the year for an AQ or an at-large. If I get into a bind where I can't decide who to add or who to drop, I will look at if anyone won on the road in conference and usually will use that to determine who is in.

One of the reasons I took a 4-4 Sac State team over other deserving teams this week was because of the 30 point blowout of Northern Arizona on the road. Quite impressive showing over a team that beat Montana State and almost beat Montana on the road.

[wideright82]

My poll problem is three-fold

First is that my initial poll had some crazy teams. (As did many of yours. The first couple of polls are ALWAYS crazy, and it takes a while to settle out.)

Second, my philosophy is that I generally try to reward teams for wins and drop them for losses. I'm not always consistent with how I do that, though.

Third, I'm myopic for a) Sac, b) Liberty, c) the rest of the Sky (particularly Montana, which has been the class of the conference since I've been aware of it), generally in that order.

Fourth, given the plethora of teams, it's hard to stay abreast of who's really good, kinda good, and cr@p.

I probably should have dropped Sac out weeks ago, but given Problems 3 and 2, I had them so high to begin with that they never completely dropped out.

That's it in a nutshell.

Add your poll to the long list of things your completely wrong about. Sometimes I wonder how much of a laugh whatever you are gets posting some of the bullshit you come up with in that head of yours. Jokes up SH with this poll, or should I say Ursus part II, I'm on to you. The start of the online alter egos. Brilliant scheme you son of a bitch.