Charlie Manuel Watch Thread - 2010 Edition

[93henfan]

I noticed J-Roll was limping around all game after taking a fouled ball off the leg. Hopefully he can ice it up and shake it off.

[GannonFan]

Well on the bright side we get 2 home sweeps despite Lidge's theatrics & we're 4.5 behind the Braves for the division.

I agree - at the end of the day, Lidge didn't blow either of these saves, so that's really all that matters. Phils inch closer to the Braves, Phils move ahead of the Rockies in the wild card standings, and they enter the next month's worth of very winnable games on a pretty nice winning streak. The second half surge appears to have begun, and we get Hamels and Halladay on the hill for the next two games.

[93henfan]

Ken Rosenthal (FSN) reporting that Oswalt has no interest in coming to Philadelphia.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/roy- ... um=twitter

I love this quote :

"I'd be surprised if Oswalt goes (anywhere)," an AL executive said. "It sounds like both he and the Astros are difficult."

[BlueHen86]

Ken Rosenthal (FSN) reporting that Oswalt has no interest in coming to Philadelphia.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/roy- ... um=twitter

I love this quote :

"I'd be surprised if Oswalt goes (anywhere)," an AL executive said. "It sounds like both he and the Astros are difficult."

Good riddance. If he wants to stay with a crappy team he and Ed Wade deserve each other.

[93henfan]

Boy did Werth get all of that one?

[93henfan]

And Howard goes opposite field.

Greg Gross is a fucking genius.

[93henfan]

So, can the pen hold a four run lead over six outs?

[BlueHen86]

So, can the pen hold a four run lead over six outs?

Hopefully Lidge isn't available.

On a down note, Victorino left the game with what looks like a hammy pull (I'm just guessing).

On an up note, the Braves lost tonight. The Phils could pull to within 3.5 games of Atlanta.

[BlueHen86]

Victorino left the game with a left oblique strain.

Lidge is not available tonight, he threw 66 pitches the last two days.

[93henfan]

Gosh. So quick and painless without Lidge out there. Nice win in an exciting back and forth game.

The bats are ALIVE!!!

[clenz]

Ken Rosenthal (FSN) reporting that Oswalt has no interest in coming to Philadelphia.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/roy- ... um=twitter

I love this quote :

"I'd be surprised if Oswalt goes (anywhere)," an AL executive said. "It sounds like both he and the Astros are difficult."

I wouldn't be shocked if the Twins leaked that quote out there.


They have been going after starting pitching hard this year, but haven't gotten anything yet.

[bluehenbillk]

Well if Victorino hits the DL, you'll see Dominic Brown in the starting lineup tonight. Anyone else notice that the Braves have been playing with soiled pants apparently lately...

[93henfan]

Meet Domonic Brown:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phi ... LLIES.html

[GannonFan]

I don't see them bringing up Brown - heck, they've waited all year to not bring him up so the clock doesn't start on his arbitration eligibility, so why would they, with just 4 weeks of August to get through, sacrifice another year of control on Brown? They know he's coming up in September and they know he's likely a starter with the big team on next year's Opening Day roster - why would they now start the clock?

I think the comment by the Lehigh Valley manager is right - if they need to bring up anyone short term to spell Victorino then it'll likely be Mayberry.

[bluehenbillk]

I don't see them bringing up Brown - heck, they've waited all year to not bring him up so the clock doesn't start on his arbitration eligibility, so why would they, with just 4 weeks of August to get through, sacrifice another year of control on Brown? They know he's coming up in September and they know he's likely a starter with the big team on next year's Opening Day roster - why would they now start the clock?

I think the comment by the Lehigh Valley manager is right - if they need to bring up anyone short term to spell Victorino then it'll likely be Mayberry.

That'd be odd, just the other week there were comments on how Mayberry was disappointing this year so far. How do you answer the question:' "Mayberry is hitting about 100 points lower than Brown, why do you bring him up?" Not the questions you want to answer in a pennant race. If the Phils were 6 games up in the division then yea, you can play the extra year of control game, but that doesn't fly right now when every game counts.

[GannonFan]

I don't see them bringing up Brown - heck, they've waited all year to not bring him up so the clock doesn't start on his arbitration eligibility, so why would they, with just 4 weeks of August to get through, sacrifice another year of control on Brown? They know he's coming up in September and they know he's likely a starter with the big team on next year's Opening Day roster - why would they now start the clock?

I think the comment by the Lehigh Valley manager is right - if they need to bring up anyone short term to spell Victorino then it'll likely be Mayberry.

That'd be odd, just the other week there were comments on how Mayberry was disappointing this year so far. How do you answer the question:' "Mayberry is hitting about 100 points lower than Brown, why do you bring him up?" Not the questions you want to answer in a pennant race. If the Phils were 6 games up in the division then yea, you can play the extra year of control game, but that doesn't fly right now when every game counts.

It's actually easy to answer - you say that Mayberry already has major league experience, and plus, you'll probably be playing Francisco and Gload a lot more to cover for Victorino if he goes on the DL, so you need someone who's more of a pinch-hitter type player. Given Brown's age, and recent promotion to AAA, you'd rather he stay in AAA and play everyday and get his at bats in rather than have him sit on the bench in Philly.

And like I said, you'd be trading up to 4 weeks of potential playing time (if it's even that - if Victorino only stays on the DL - if he's put on it - for 15 days, what are you going to do with Brown when Victorino comes off the DL - send him back down?) for one year down the road. If this was May or June and he'd be up here for the duration, then of course I'd do that. If we're trading Werth and not getting an OF in return, then you have to do it as well. But absent those two things, or I guess another OF getting hurt or Victorino being out longer than 15 days max, I think the writing is already on the wall with the Lehigh Valley manager's comments - I would expect Mayberry here first.

[bluehenbillk]

That's going to be a tough sell, especially for a fan base that is still pissed off over the Cliff Lee move, to bring up a knowingly worse player over your best prospect. If they brought up Brown, he'd probably be playing every day in RF, Werth will play CF & Francisco & Ibanez would continue to split time in LF. Brown is a lefty & hits over .300 against LHP. The guy is a consensus top-five player in all the minors & doesn't have anyt weaknesses, but no, they wouldn't bring him up? Amaro would get skewered, if he does that I'd suggest not reading a paper, or listening to the radio or TV for a long time.

[GannonFan]

That's going to be a tough sell, especially for a fan base that is still pissed off over the Cliff Lee move, to bring up a knowingly worse player over your best prospect. If they brought up Brown, he'd probably be playing every day in RF, Werth will play CF & Francisco & Ibanez would continue to split time in LF. Brown is a lefty & hits over .300 against LHP. The guy is a consensus top-five player in all the minors & doesn't have anyt weaknesses, but no, they wouldn't bring him up? Amaro would get skewered, if he does that I'd suggest not reading a paper, or listening to the radio or TV for a long time.

And when Victorino comes back Brown sits. That, and they fact they want to get an extra year on the clock, is the reason they don't bring him up. Sure the fanbase won't like it, they didn't like it when they did the same thing with not bringing Howard up when Thome got hurt, but it's what they do. Of course, on the backend of it fans like that Howard is still here and affordable and it was because of that move that helped to make that the case, but like you said, fans look at the here and now and complain about anything they don't like. That's life.

Of course, if Victorino is out for an extended time (more than the 15 day DL) or Werth gets traded without a major league OF in return, Brown will be here and start. Otherwise, it's tough to see this Phils management doing that, regardless what the fanbase and press say.

[bluehenbillk]

ahhhh, did you say Howard is affordable?!?

[GannonFan]

ahhhh, did you say Howard is affordable?!?

Relative to what he would've been had he started the clock a year earlier. Every year would've been pushed up one earlier had they not held him down (and granted, I'm a fan and I wanted him up then like I want Brown up now - but I certainly recognize the long term view they took then and now - it's not a fatal flaw on their part).

So right now, the Phils would've spent $20M more just on Ryan Howard to date had they brought him up a year earlier. What impact that would have on who they have now that they wouldn't have gotten is certainly an unknown, but you figure they didn't think they could swing the $9M for Cliff Lee just this year so you figure somebody wouldn't be here right now if they had started the clock earlier.

[GannonFan]

Well, the fanbase can relax - Brown gets the promotion. Figure with the Diamondbacks starting a righty tonight Brown should get the start in rightfield.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phi ... moted.html

[bluehenbillk]

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Bro ... to_DL.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Victorino goes on the DL, the Dominic Brown era starts tonight!!

[bluehenbillk]

you beat me to it by seconds....

[GannonFan]

you beat me to it by seconds....

Really throws an extra wrench into the whole "should they trade Werth" debate. Oswalt hasn't exactly won the hearts and minds of Philly fans with his whole insistence that he wants to play for a winner, but maybe not on the East Coast and only if his option is guaranteed. And with his age and injury history that doesn't make for a slamdunk deal. And now, depending on how long Victorino is out, we're realying on an admittedly very good (albeit young) prospect. Werth has certainly had a brutal May through most of July, and he's very unlikely to be here next year, but if he is heating up then the Phils may just have to hold on to him and hope for compensatory picks if he leaves in the offseason. Doesn't seem to be a lot of cushion to move him now, unless they get a big league OF in return (maybe still Upton??).

[bluehenbillk]

you beat me to it by seconds....

Really throws an extra wrench into the whole "should they trade Werth" debate. Oswalt hasn't exactly won the hearts and minds of Philly fans with his whole insistence that he wants to play for a winner, but maybe not on the East Coast and only if his option is guaranteed. And with his age and injury history that doesn't make for a slamdunk deal. And now, depending on how long Victorino is out, we're realying on an admittedly very good (albeit young) prospect. Werth has certainly had a brutal May through most of July, and he's very unlikely to be here next year, but if he is heating up then the Phils may just have to hold on to him and hope for compensatory picks if he leaves in the offseason. Doesn't seem to be a lot of cushion to move him now, unless they get a big league OF in return (maybe still Upton??).

They could still trade him, but the chances probably got less. The only way they'd do it IMO is to swing a 3-year deal, like with the Rays as you mentioned, where they get a big-league ready bat back in a deal.