Week 11: Post your Poll!

[MrTitleist]

haha.. screamin' eagle's dumb. Shoot a PM to Chris and/or Tman and they can fix it.

[Willie]

1: Southern Illinois Salukis
2: Villanova Wildcats
3: Richmond Spiders
4: Montana Grizzlies
5: William & Mary Tribe
6: Appalachian State Mountaineers
7: South Carolina State Bulldogs
8: New Hampshire Wildcats
9: Elon Phoenix
10: Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks
11: McNeese State Cowboys
12: Eastern Washington Eagles
13: Northern Iowa Panthers
14: South Dakota Coyotes
15: Eastern Illinois Panthers
16: Jacksonville Dolphins
17: Liberty Flames
18: Weber State Wildcats
19: Holy Cross Crusaders
20: Montana State Bobcats
21: Texas State Bobcats
22: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
23: Colgate Raiders
24: UC Davis Aggies
25: Lafayette Leopards

Goddamnit. Mr T (one of you), could you fix that to JSU? I experimented with typing the teams name and then hitting tab. Worked out other than that mishap.

Better ask 'em to change South Dakota to South Dakota St. while they're at it

[ASUMountaineer]

Free will doesn't exist Z. Now get to goose-stepping and start following SuperHornet's method to building an accurate top 25. Starting with Liberty.

If danefan didn't like YOUR poll, he REALLY ain't gonna like MY poll....

1) Montana
2) Villanova
3) SIU
4) William & Mary
5) App State
6) Richmond
7) UNI
8) McNeese State
9) EWU
10) Weber State
11) Elon
12) UNH
13) South Carolina State
14) EIU
15) SDSU
16) Delaware
17) SFA
18) Holy Cross
19) Montana State
20) Liberty
21) Central Connecticut St
22) Jacksonville St
23) Lafayette
24) Texas State
25) Old Dominion

WCB

[AZGrizFan]

If danefan didn't like YOUR poll, he REALLY ain't gonna like MY poll....

9) EWU
10) Weber State

WCB

Somewhat, but more a function of EWU's 3 game winning streak and teams above them continuing to lose. Weber was #7 before losing to Montana, fell to #12, and now back to #10 with a win (and again, teams above them losing).

[danefan]

And because of that I cannot see any plausible way to include them in the Top 25.

You of all people shouldn't be criticizing any polls. After I looked at your posted poll this week and last week I'm astounded that you're allowed to vote. You had three teams in the top 10 last week that lost this week.. one of them moved down, the other two remained in their same place. You had UCD at #24 last week, and after they won this last week, you moved them out of the top 25. It makes me wonder if you're even paying attention when you do your poll.

I included Butler, and many other fringe teams (8-2, 7-3 weaker conf. teams) for the sole purpose that my 18-25 was pretty much obliterated by losses. Teams like JMU, UMass, NAU are not going to get my vote for top 25s this week because they are at 5-5, .500 teams do not belong in the top 25, IMO. They may or may not beat teams like Butler, but I'm not rewarding mediocrity. I compare this to a 7-1 Sun Belt team.. they play terrible games, but at some point, people are going to notice them and rank them.. Butler, FAMU, Penn, and Colgate fall in the same area for me. It really came down to ranking the lesser of all evils.

If you noticed I commented last week about how putting UC Davis in was a mistake. Hence why they aren't in my poll this week.

The 3 teams in my top 10 that lost this week:

UNH
Previous week's rank: 7
This week's rank: 7

The lost by 3 points to a team I had ranked above them last week (W&M was #5 last week and this week). The results fall in line with my ranking and there is no reason to demote a team for a close loss against a team that is ranked higher than them.

Elon
Previous rank: 6
This week's rank: 11

Whooped by App State who I had ranked #9. Dropped 5 spots. Still stronger than all but 10 teams in the nation. My poll was corrected this week to accomodate their loss.

SDSU
Previous rank: 8
This week's rank: 8

Should have beaten a Big 10 team and looked good doing it. Their defense is possible the best in FCS. Why should I drop a team for that?

Anything else specific you'd care to pick apart?

I'll have an answer for everything, even if the answer is that the ranking was a mistake (e.g. UC Davis last week).

You are the one awarding teams for mediocrity. I rank teams based on who the best 25 teams in the country are. That's why a 5-5 team like James Madison is ranked 22nd in my poll. I cannot find more than 21 teams that I think would beat JMU at this point.

Can you say the same about your poll? Do you think Butler would beat all but 22 teams in the country?

[danefan]

Free will doesn't exist Z. Now get to goose-stepping and start following SuperHornet's method to building an accurate top 25. Starting with Liberty.

If danefan didn't like YOUR poll, he REALLY ain't gonna like MY poll....

1) Montana
2) Villanova
3) SIU
4) William & Mary
5) App State
6) Richmond
7) UNI
8) McNeese State
9) EWU
10) Weber State
11) Elon
12) UNH
13) South Carolina State
14) EIU
15) SDSU
16) Delaware
17) SFA
18) Holy Cross
19) Montana State
20) Liberty
21) Central Connecticut St
22) Jacksonville St
23) Lafayette
24) Texas State
25) Old Dominion

Besides Old Dominion, why wouldn't I like your poll?

I've got EWU 10th and Weber State 13th.

[AZGrizFan]

Besides Old Dominion, why wouldn't I like your poll?

I've got EWU 10th and Weber State 13th.

No, that was the only reason. If somebody giving Butler love bothers you so much, I figured you'd REALLY have your panties in a knot over ODU getting votes...

[danefan]

Besides Old Dominion, why wouldn't I like your poll?

I've got EWU 10th and Weber State 13th.

No, that was the only reason. If somebody giving Butler love bothers you so much, I figured you'd REALLY have your panties in a knot over ODU getting votes...

It really doesn't bother me that much. I was just pointing out that they got killed by Jacksonville.

I don't agree with it, just like I don't agree with ranking Old Dominion, a team that lost to a middle-of-the road NEC team and a bad Patriot League team.

[AZGrizFan]

No, that was the only reason. If somebody giving Butler love bothers you so much, I figured you'd REALLY have your panties in a knot over ODU getting votes...

It really doesn't bother me that much. I was just pointing out that they got killed by Jacksonville.

I don't agree with it, just like I don't agree with ranking Old Dominion, a team that lost to a middle-of-the road NEC team and a bad Patriot League team.

Well, usually I take the same approach as you, and rank teams based on who I think would beat them...and using that theory I'd have JMU ranked #21 in my poll. However, I just can't bring myself to rank a 5-5 team over a 9-1 or 8-2 team....gotta reward effort and results.

[clenz]

1: Southern Illinois Salukis
2: Montana Grizzlies
3: Villanova Wildcats
4: William & Mary Tribe
5: Appalachian State Mountaineers
6: Northern Iowa Panthers
7: Richmond Spiders
8: McNeese State Cowboys
9: South Carolina State Bulldogs
10: New Hampshire Wildcats
11: Elon Phoenix
12: Eastern Illinois Panthers
13: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
14: Eastern Washington Eagles
15: Weber State Wildcats
16: Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks
17: Liberty Flames
18: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
19: Holy Cross Crusaders
20: Montana State Bobcats
21: Prairie View A&M Panthers
22: Florida A&M Rattlers
23: Old Dominion Monarchs
24: Pennsylvania Quakers
25: Lafayette Leopards


20-30 was pretty much a crap shoot for me

[mcveyrl]

It really doesn't bother me that much. I was just pointing out that they got killed by Jacksonville.

I don't agree with it, just like I don't agree with ranking Old Dominion, a team that lost to a middle-of-the road NEC team and a bad Patriot League team.

Well, usually I take the same approach as you, and rank teams based on who I think would beat them...and using that theory I'd have JMU ranked #21 in my poll. However, I just can't bring myself to rank a 5-5 team over a 9-1 or 8-2 team....gotta reward effort and results.

I call this Big Sky bias.

Seriously, though, your reasoning is horseshit and betrayed by your own poll. You've got a 6-4 Delaware team with a win over a DII (so 5-4) ranked 16th. What win, exactly, qualifies them for that ranking? Is it the win over UMass (at home, by th way)? JMU just beat UMass at their place. By the same token, you're talking about EWU's 3 game winning streat to justify their Top 10 ranking. JMU's got a three game winning streak, too but you won't consider them. On top of that Weber State is 6-4 (just a game ahead of JMU) and you've got them in the Top 10. How do you bring yourself to rank them over a 9-1 team?? And in the Top 10 to boot!!

[clenz]

Well, usually I take the same approach as you, and rank teams based on who I think would beat them...and using that theory I'd have JMU ranked #21 in my poll. However, I just can't bring myself to rank a 5-5 team over a 9-1 or 8-2 team....gotta reward effort and results.

I call this Big Sky bias.

Seriously, though, your reasoning is horseshit and betrayed by your own poll. You've got a 6-4 Delaware team with a win over a DII (so 5-4) ranked 16th. What win, exactly, qualifies them for that ranking? Is it the win over UMass (at home, by th way)? JMU just beat UMass at their place. By the same token, you're talking about EWU's 3 game winning streat to justify their Top 10 ranking. JMU's got a three game winning streak, too but you won't consider them. On top of that Weber State is 6-4 (just a game ahead of JMU) and you've got them in the Top 10. How do you bring yourself to rank them over a 9-1 team?? And in the Top 10 to boot!!

I agree with you.


However, the only reason you are so pissy is because they aren't from the CAA and being ranked at 6-4. If he had 2 CAA teams like that you wouldn't really care

[danefan]

I really cannot see any reason to rank Old Dominion at all.

Maybe I'm missing something?

[UNHWildCats]

good to see most people are keeping UNH in the top 10 where they belong. I was worried a lot of people would drop them more then they should.

[mcveyrl]

I call this Big Sky bias.

Seriously, though, your reasoning is horseshit and betrayed by your own poll. You've got a 6-4 Delaware team with a win over a DII (so 5-4) ranked 16th. What win, exactly, qualifies them for that ranking? Is it the win over UMass (at home, by th way)? JMU just beat UMass at their place. By the same token, you're talking about EWU's 3 game winning streat to justify their Top 10 ranking. JMU's got a three game winning streak, too but you won't consider them. On top of that Weber State is 6-4 (just a game ahead of JMU) and you've got them in the Top 10. How do you bring yourself to rank them over a 9-1 team?? And in the Top 10 to boot!!

I agree with you.


However, the only reason you are so pissy is because they aren't from the CAA and being ranked at 6-4. If he had 2 CAA teams like that you wouldn't really care

Those are some pretty broad assumptions. And if you notice, I knock his ranking of a CAA team first.

Actually, I don't have a problem with Weber or EWU being ranked there. I have both in my poll and in the Top 20. Ahead of all but the top CAA teams. My issue was with his proposed reasoning and then turning it on its head to get the Big Sky teams where he wanted them.

FWIW, here's my poll:
1. Southern Illinois
2. Villanova
3. Richmond
4. Montana
5. William & Mary
6. Appalachian St.
7. South Dakota St.
8. New Hampshire
9. Northern Iowa
10. Elon
11. South Carolina St.
12. McNeese St.
13. Liberty
14. Weber St.
15. Eastern Illinois
16. Jacksonville St.
17. Eastern Washington
18. Stephen F. Austin
19. Holy Cross
20. James Madison
21. Delaware
22. Montana St.
23. UC Davis
24. Colgate
25. Pennsylvania

[AZGrizFan]

I call this Big Sky bias.

Seriously, though, your reasoning is horseshit and betrayed by your own poll. You've got a 6-4 Delaware team with a win over a DII (so 5-4) ranked 16th. What win, exactly, qualifies them for that ranking? Is it the win over UMass (at home, by th way)? JMU just beat UMass at their place. By the same token, you're talking about EWU's 3 game winning streat to justify their Top 10 ranking. JMU's got a three game winning streak, too but you won't consider them. On top of that Weber State is 6-4 (just a game ahead of JMU) and you've got them in the Top 10. How do you bring yourself to rank them over a 9-1 team?? And in the Top 10 to boot!!

I agree with you.


However, the only reason you are so pissy is because they aren't from the CAA and being ranked at 6-4. If he had 2 CAA teams like that you wouldn't really care

Clenz outs mcveyrl.

[mcveyrl]

I agree with you.


However, the only reason you are so pissy is because they aren't from the CAA and being ranked at 6-4. If he had 2 CAA teams like that you wouldn't really care

Clenz outs mcveyrl.

Not so fast my friend. Didn't I knock your ranking of Delaware first??? Like I said, I've really got no problem with ranking Weber and EWU so high, but the Weber State record, in particular, goes against your whole "I gotta go with record" argument (as does the UD ranking).

Just explain to me how 6-4 Weber gets a Top 10 spot instead of an 8-2 or 9-1 team. I thought we were rewarding effort and results???

[andy7171]

I'm with DF, how does ODU get votes? The are 6-2 against lower tier PFL, PL, and transitioning schools schools. Attendence is extremely impressive, but ...

Ranking ODU over CCSU, Albany, Butler, Dayton and Drake is confusing. Those school would slaughter the noobie butterflys.

[AZGrizFan]

I call this Big Sky bias.

Seriously, though, your reasoning is horseshit and betrayed by your own poll. You've got a 6-4 Delaware team with a win over a DII (so 5-4) ranked 16th. What win, exactly, qualifies them for that ranking? Is it the win over UMass (at home, by th way)? JMU just beat UMass at their place. By the same token, you're talking about EWU's 3 game winning streat to justify their Top 10 ranking. JMU's got a three game winning streak, too but you won't consider them. On top of that Weber State is 6-4 (just a game ahead of JMU) and you've got them in the Top 10. How do you bring yourself to rank them over a 9-1 team?? And in the Top 10 to boot!!

It's easy, mcveyrl: I've ranked the top 18-20 teams in an order in which I feel (for the most part) they would beat the teams below them and lose to the teams above them. That's why EWU, Weber and Delaware are where they are. After about 20, it's a reward system for excellent play, regardless of level. That's how Lafayette, ODU, CCSU, etc., get in there. Besides, JMU was at one point 2-5. They were WAY down my list, and are crawling their way back up. Delaware, on the other hand, was once 5-2, and just played a Navy team tough for 3 1/3 quarters.

And sometimes, it's a function of what the teams above them do (like LOSE).

[AZGrizFan]

I'm with DF, how does ODU get votes? The are 6-2 against lower tier PFL, PL, and transitioning schools schools. Attendence is extremely impressive, but ...

Ranking ODU over CCSU, Albany, Butler, Dayton and Drake is confusing. Those school would slaughter the noobie butterflys.

Here's how:

NONE OF THEM ARE MAKING THE PLAYOFFS. DOES IT REALLY FUCKING MATTER?



"Jesus. These clowns want me to decide who's LESS mediocre."

[mcveyrl]

I call this Big Sky bias.

Seriously, though, your reasoning is horseshit and betrayed by your own poll. You've got a 6-4 Delaware team with a win over a DII (so 5-4) ranked 16th. What win, exactly, qualifies them for that ranking? Is it the win over UMass (at home, by th way)? JMU just beat UMass at their place. By the same token, you're talking about EWU's 3 game winning streat to justify their Top 10 ranking. JMU's got a three game winning streak, too but you won't consider them. On top of that Weber State is 6-4 (just a game ahead of JMU) and you've got them in the Top 10. How do you bring yourself to rank them over a 9-1 team?? And in the Top 10 to boot!!

It's easy, mcveyrl: I've ranked the top 18-20 teams in an order in which I feel (for the most part) they would beat the teams below them and lose to the teams above them. That's why EWU, Weber and Delaware are where they are. After about 20, it's a reward system for excellent play, regardless of level. That's how Lafayette, ODU, CCSU, etc., get in there. Besides, JMU was at one point 2-5. They were WAY down my list, and are crawling their way back up. Delaware, on the other hand, was once 5-2, and just played a Navy team tough for 3 1/3 quarters.

And sometimes, it's a function of what the teams above them do (like LOSE).

Okay, I just want to get this straight...

You believe that UD and Liberty are both top 20 teams, but do NOT believe that JMU's earned any consideration for beating both of those teams and would instead like to "reward" the following: Lafayette, who lost to Liberty; ODU, who lost to a lower Patriot League team; CCSU, who lost to a mid-level NEC team?? All these teams are examples of "excellent play."

Next year, we're rumored to play Morehead State. You should like that on several levels... Maybe if we take them to overtime we'll get the nod for "excellent play."

[andy7171]

So why bother going past 16? Why bother ranking past 10? I know it doesn't matter, jesu christo!

[McNeese75]

I agree with you.


However, the only reason you are so pissy is because they aren't from the CAA and being ranked at 6-4. If he had 2 CAA teams like that you wouldn't really care

Those are some pretty broad assumptions. And if you notice, I knock his ranking of a CAA team first.

Actually, I don't have a problem with Weber or EWU being ranked there. I have both in my poll and in the Top 20. Ahead of all but the top CAA teams. My issue was with his proposed reasoning and then turning it on its head to get the Big Sky teams where he wanted them.

FWIW, here's my poll:
1. Southern Illinois
2. Villanova
3. Richmond
4. Montana
5. William & Mary
6. Appalachian St.
7. South Dakota St.
8. New Hampshire
9. Northern Iowa
10. Elon
11. South Carolina St.
12. McNeese St.
13. Liberty
14. Weber St.
15. Eastern Illinois
16. Jacksonville St.
17. Eastern Washington
18. Stephen F. Austin
19. Holy Cross
20. James Madison
21. Delaware
22. Montana St.
23. UC Davis
24. Colgate
25. Pennsylvania

Why is McNeese ranked lower than Elon?

[AZGrizFan]

It's easy, mcveyrl: I've ranked the top 18-20 teams in an order in which I feel (for the most part) they would beat the teams below them and lose to the teams above them. That's why EWU, Weber and Delaware are where they are. After about 20, it's a reward system for excellent play, regardless of level. That's how Lafayette, ODU, CCSU, etc., get in there. Besides, JMU was at one point 2-5. They were WAY down my list, and are crawling their way back up. Delaware, on the other hand, was once 5-2, and just played a Navy team tough for 3 1/3 quarters.

And sometimes, it's a function of what the teams above them do (like LOSE).

Okay, I just want to get this straight...

You believe that UD and Liberty are both top 20 teams, but do NOT believe that JMU's earned any consideration for beating both of those teams and would instead like to "reward" the following: Lafayette, who lost to Liberty; ODU, who lost to a lower Patriot League team; CCSU, who lost to a mid-level NEC team?? All these teams are examples of "excellent play."

Next year, we're rumored to play Morehead State. You should like that on several levels... Maybe if we take them to overtime we'll get the nod for "excellent play."

See the post above yours for my explanation.

[AZGrizFan]

So why bother going past 16? Why bother ranking past 10? I know it doesn't matter, jesu christo!

Honestly, I liked the idea of a "playoff poll", like that which Ursus was pimping at the beginning of the year, but he and I were two lonely voices in the wind....