Shipping Migrants Inland

[kalm]

This issues a tough one and it ain’t going away soon.

Last night a woman and two children drowned in the Rio Grande that marks the border between the U.S. and Mexico near Eagle Pass, Texas.

U.S. Border Patrol agents knew that a group of six migrants were in distress in the river but could not try to save them, as they normally would, because troops from the Texas National Guard and the Texas Military Department prevented the Border Patrol agents from entering the area where they were struggling: Shelby Park, a 47-acre public park that offers access to a frequently traveled part of the river and is a place where Border Patrol agents often encounter migrants crossing the border illegally.

They could not enter because two days ago, on Thursday, Texas governor Greg Abbott sent armed Texas National Guard soldiers and soldiers from the Texas Military Department to take control of Shelby Park. Rolando Salinas, the mayor of Eagle Pass, posted a video on Facebook showing the troops and saying that a state official had told him that state troops were taking “full control” over Shelby Park “indefinitely.” Salinas made it clear that “[t]his is not something that we wanted. This is not something that we asked for as a city.”

The Texas forces have denied United States Border Patrol officials entry into the park to perform their duties, asserting that Texas officials have power over U.S. officials.

On December 18, Abbott signed into law S.B. 4, a measure that attempts to take into state hands the power over immigration the Constitution gives to the federal government. Courts have repeatedly reinforced that immigration is the responsibility of federal, not state, government, but now, according to Uriel J. García of the Texas Tribune, “some Texas Republicans have said they hope the new law will push the issue back before a U.S. Supreme Court that is more conservative since three appointees of former President Donald Trump joined it.”

On January 3 the Department of Justice filed a lawsuit against the new law, saying: “Texas cannot run its own immigration system. Its efforts, through S.B. 4, intrude on the federal government’s exclusive authority to regulate the entry and removal of noncitizens, frustrate the United States’ immigration operations and proceedings, and interfere with U.S. foreign relations.”

Abbott and MAGA Republicans are teeing up the issue of immigration as a key line of attack on President Joe Biden in 2024, but while they are insisting the issue is so important they will not agree to fund Ukraine’s resistance to Russia’s 2022 invasion until it is solved, they are also unwilling to participate in discussions to fund more border officers or immigration courts. Today, once again, Biden reminded reporters that he has asked Congress to pass new border measures since he took office, but rather than pass new laws, Republicans appear to be doubling down on pushing the idea that migrants threaten American society and that an individual state—Texas, in this case—can override federal authority.

Abbott has spent more than $100 million of Texas tax dollars to send migrants to cities led by Democrats. These migrants have applied for asylum and are waiting for a hearing; they are in the U.S. legally. In September 2023, Texas stopped coordinating with nonprofits in those cities that prepared for migrant arrivals.

Yesterday, Illinois governor J.B. Pritzker wrote to Abbott, calling him out for choosing “to sow chaos in an attempt to score political points.” Pritzker noted that Abbott is “sending asylum seekers from Texas to the Upper Midwest in the middle of winter—many without coats, without shoes to protect them from the snow—to a city whose shelters are already overfilled with migrants you sent here.” Chicago’s temperatures are set to drop below zero this weekend, Pritzker wrote, and he “strongly urge[d]” Abbott to stop sending people to Illinois in these conditions. “You are dropping off asylum seekers without alerting us to their arrivals, at improper locations at all hours of the night.”

Pritzker wrote that he supports bipartisan immigration reform but “[w]hile action is pending at the federal level, I plead with you for mercy for the thousands of people who are powerless to speak for themselves. Please, while winter is threatening vulnerable people’s lives, suspend your transports and do not send more people to our state. We are asking you to help prevent additional deaths. We should be able to come together in a bipartisan fashion to urge Congress to act. But right now, we are talking about human beings and their survival. I hope we can at least agree on saving lives right now.”

Speaking on the right-wing Dana Loesch Show last week, Abbott said, “The only thing that we’re not doing is we’re not shooting people who come across the border, because of course the Biden administration would charge us with murder.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/heatherco ... paign=post

[Caribbean Hen]

It’s really not that tough, enforce the border

Simple

[BDKJMU]

It’s really not that tough, enforce the border

Simple

Exactly.
-Resinstate MPP (Remain in Mexico, would cut the flow to a fraction of what it is now, ending most asylum claims)

Deport, deport, deport. Stephen Miller on Clay and Buck Thursday laid out exactly how that could happen (at about the 1:45 to 6:25 mark):

[BDKJMU]

64 Times the Biden Administration Intentionally Undermined Border Security
https://www.speaker.gov/64-times-the-bi ... -security/

[UNI88]

It’s really not that tough, enforce the border

Simple

It's really not that tough, don't intentionally put people''s lives at risk.

This is coming from someone who thinks biden's border policies are atrocious and supports sending immigrants to sanctuary cities. Sending them without coats, shoes, etc. to places experiencing temperatures hovering around 0 degrees Fahrenheit is criminal negligence.

I'd love to have someone explain how a good Christian could justify doing something like this.

[houndawg]

It’s really not that tough, enforce the border

Simple

It's really not that tough, don't intentionally put people''s lives at risk.

This is coming from someone who thinks biden's border policies are atrocious and supports sending immigrants to sanctuary cities. Sending them without coats, shoes, etc. to places experiencing temperatures hovering around 0 degrees Fahrenheit is criminal negligence.

I'd love to have someone explain how a good Christian could justify doing something like this.

The good ones aren't the ones running for office.

And Abbot is crippled beyond the physical

[Caribbean Hen]

It’s really not that tough, enforce the border

Simple

It's really not that tough, don't intentionally put people''s lives at risk.

This is coming from someone who thinks biden's border policies are atrocious and supports sending immigrants to sanctuary cities. Sending them without coats, shoes, etc. to places experiencing temperatures hovering around 0 degrees Fahrenheit is criminal negligence.

I'd love to have someone explain how a good Christian could justify doing something like this.

Oh please

Every one of these migrants has a designer pair of shoes, and the little alligator on the shirt… there’s probably thousands of jackets rotting at the Chicago Goodwill

This is all on Joey Rotten and his stooge Mayorkas

[GannonFan]

There's nothing about this that is that complicated, just the lack of a desire by politicians to see the solution through.

1) Increase the availability and the ease of legal immigration. We need immigrants, in large numbers, and they're a great boon to the country when done legally and correctly. And we're fortunate that we're a country that huge numbers of people in this world want to immigrate to (as opposed to say, China).

2) Grant amnesty to any illegals currently in the country, with a moderate penalty (~$1k per person). Needs to be a very immediate thing, not something that people will start streaming to the borders to be a part of. Those still in the country after this deadline who didn't partake need to be booted.

3) Significantly step up border protection and bar people from coming in. Asylum cases need to stay in Mexico until resolved. Also re-engage Mexico to protect their southern border. I don't like Trump, but in one of his broken-clock-is-right-twice thing, stopping people from crossing multiple borders just to claim asylum in the US was one of the more correct things he did.

[BDKJMU]

There's nothing about this that is that complicated, just the lack of a desire by politicians to see the solution through.

1) Increase the availability and the ease of legal immigration. We need immigrants, in large numbers, and they're a great boon to the country when done legally and correctly. And we're fortunate that we're a country that huge numbers of people in this world want to immigrate to (as opposed to say, China).

2) Grant amnesty to any illegals currently in the country, with a moderate penalty (~$1k per person). Needs to be a very immediate thing, not something that people will start streaming to the borders to be a part of. Those still in the country after this deadline who didn't partake need to be booted.

3) Significantly step up border protection and bar people from coming in. Asylum cases need to stay in Mexico until resolved. Also re-engage Mexico to protect their southern border. I don't like Trump, but in one of his broken-clock-is-right-twice thing, stopping people from crossing multiple borders just to claim asylum in the US was one of the more correct things he did.

No. Rewards lawbreaking for 25-30 million, and is a slap in the face to the million of people who waited to (and are still waiting) to come to the US legally and gain citizenship the legal way.

[GannonFan]

There's nothing about this that is that complicated, just the lack of a desire by politicians to see the solution through.

1) Increase the availability and the ease of legal immigration. We need immigrants, in large numbers, and they're a great boon to the country when done legally and correctly. And we're fortunate that we're a country that huge numbers of people in this world want to immigrate to (as opposed to say, China).

2) Grant amnesty to any illegals currently in the country, with a moderate penalty (~$1k per person). Needs to be a very immediate thing, not something that people will start streaming to the borders to be a part of. Those still in the country after this deadline who didn't partake need to be booted.

3) Significantly step up border protection and bar people from coming in. Asylum cases need to stay in Mexico until resolved. Also re-engage Mexico to protect their southern border. I don't like Trump, but in one of his broken-clock-is-right-twice thing, stopping people from crossing multiple borders just to claim asylum in the US was one of the more correct things he did.

No. Rewards lawbreaking for 25-30 million, and is a slap in the face to the million of people who waited to (and are still waiting) to come to the US legally and gain citizenship the legal way.

So what option do you want for the 25-30 million people then? You can't ship them out, you can't put them in jail. You can't make them slaves or indentured servants. So what are you going to do with them? I couldn't ascertain that answer from just "no".

[Caribbean Hen]

No. Rewards lawbreaking for 25-30 million, and is a slap in the face to the million of people who waited to (and are still waiting) to come to the US legally and gain citizenship the legal way.

So what option do you want for the 25-30 million people then? You can't ship them out, you can't put them in jail. You can't make them slaves or indentured servants. So what are you going to do with them? I couldn't ascertain that answer from just "no".

How bout 2 years in the military? Start busing them to boot camps to fill Biden’s broken military that’s severely short on enlistments

That would stop em in their tracks

[BDKJMU]

No. Rewards lawbreaking for 25-30 million, and is a slap in the face to the million of people who waited to (and are still waiting) to come to the US legally and gain citizenship the legal way.

So what option do you want for the 25-30 million people then? You can't ship them out, you can't put them in jail. You can't make them slaves or indentured servants. So what are you going to do with them? I couldn't ascertain that answer from just "no".

Seal the border- won’t stop them all, but could most (90+%).
Deport a couple of million a year. As long as are deporting more than let in every year, are making progress. Won’t ever deport them all, but could a decent chunk.
viewtopic.php?p=1440961#p1440961

Also you said:

Needs to be a very immediate thing, not something that people will start streaming to the borders to be a part of.

They are already streaming to the border- upwards of 10k a day.

[GannonFan]

So what option do you want for the 25-30 million people then? You can't ship them out, you can't put them in jail. You can't make them slaves or indentured servants. So what are you going to do with them? I couldn't ascertain that answer from just "no".

How bout 2 years in the military? Start busing them to boot camps to fill Biden’s broken military that’s severely short on enlistments

That would stop em in their tracks

The last thing our military needs is millions of folks who don't want to be there and are being forced to be there, along with all the folks that would need to be in charge of that. We went all-volunteer in the 70's for a reason. I'd rather spend military money on making the military be good at the job they do rather than having it be an induction center to living in America. That's not its purpose.

[GannonFan]

So what option do you want for the 25-30 million people then? You can't ship them out, you can't put them in jail. You can't make them slaves or indentured servants. So what are you going to do with them? I couldn't ascertain that answer from just "no".

Seal the border- won’t stop them all, but could most (90+%).
Deport a couple of million a year. As long as are deporting more than let in every year, are making progress. Won’t ever deport them all, but could a decent chunk.
viewtopic.php?p=1440961#p1440961

Also you said:

Needs to be a very immediate thing, not something that people will start streaming to the borders to be a part of.

They are already streaming to the border- upwards of 10k a day.

I already said seal the border - that needs to happen regardless of what you do with the 30 million you said are already here illegally. So even though pretty much everyone agrees you can't really round up 30 million people and somehow deport them (what do you do with the children already born here of those illegals, how do you determine where to deport them to, who's going to pay for this, etc), your best option is to just do it anyway. There are many reasons why we haven't fixed this border/immigration crisis, and clinging to unworkable solutions that wouldn't solve the crisis is one of them.

Up the penalty fee to stay here, restrict what type of funding/support they can get, etc, but for the most part they are here and shipping them all out lacks any feasibility.

[Caribbean Hen]

How bout 2 years in the military? Start busing them to boot camps to fill Biden’s broken military that’s severely short on enlistments

That would stop em in their tracks

The last thing our military needs is millions of folks who don't want to be there and are being forced to be there, along with all the folks that would need to be in charge of that. We went all-volunteer in the 70's for a reason. I'd rather spend military money on making the military be good at the job they do rather than having it be an induction center to living in America. That's not its purpose.

Not all, just let them know the military is an option. Screen them of course. I actually believe some of these people would join and serve honorably. The military is not doing well at all with recruiting right now. I know 98 % would just snicker like are you kidding me… but at least put it on the table.

[GannonFan]

The last thing our military needs is millions of folks who don't want to be there and are being forced to be there, along with all the folks that would need to be in charge of that. We went all-volunteer in the 70's for a reason. I'd rather spend military money on making the military be good at the job they do rather than having it be an induction center to living in America. That's not its purpose.

Not all, just let them know the military is an option. Screen them of course. I actually believe some of these people would join and serve honorably. The military is not doing well at all with recruiting right now. I know 98 % would just snicker like are you kidding me… but at least put it on the table.

That's different than what you said though. You said to "start bussing them to boot camps" and how that would "stop em in their tracks". That doesn't sound like a very positive, reinforce the military option like you're referring to now.

[Caribbean Hen]

Not all, just let them know the military is an option. Screen them of course. I actually believe some of these people would join and serve honorably. The military is not doing well at all with recruiting right now. I know 98 % would just snicker like are you kidding me… but at least put it on the table.

That's different than what you said though. You said to "start bussing them to boot camps" and how that would "stop em in their tracks". That doesn't sound like a very positive, reinforce the military option like you're referring to now.

You’re right, the first post was hyperbole

The second one is realistic

[BDKJMU]

Seal the border- won’t stop them all, but could most (90+%).
Deport a couple of million a year. As long as are deporting more than let in every year, are making progress. Won’t ever deport them all, but could a decent chunk.
viewtopic.php?p=1440961#p1440961

Also you said:

They are already streaming to the border- upwards of 10k a day.

I already said seal the border - that needs to happen regardless of what you do with the 30 million you said are already here illegally. So even though pretty much everyone agrees you can't really round up 30 million people and somehow deport them (what do you do with the children already born here of those illegals, how do you determine where to deport them to, who's going to pay for this, etc), your best option is to just do it anyway. There are many reasons why we haven't fixed this border/immigration crisis, and clinging to unworkable solutions that wouldn't solve the crisis is one of them.

Up the penalty fee to stay here, restrict what type of funding/support they can get, etc, but for the most part they are here and shipping them all out lacks any feasibility.

That is simple. To be deported illegal parents currently have the option:
-Take the child with them, and then the child can return to the US on their own after they turn 18, or beforehand if they have a USC or legal relative or guardian to care for them untilnthey are 18.
-Leave the child with an appointed relative or guardian who is a USC or legal immigrant.
Having an achor baby doesn’t give an illegal the right to stay in the US.

Even if can only deprt a majority, can deport a large chunk. Operation Wetback in 1954 saw over a million removals, a mix of deportations and voluntary returns, in just 1954 alone, by well under 1k Border Patrol Agents. Now the Border Patrol has over 20k agents, plus ICE, + all the other alphabet agncies that can augment.

As far as the majority that would remain, I would rather them remain as illegals than give amnesty. As illegals they can still be deported, esp those who committ crimes, and are only eligible for public education (by law) and emergency healthcare (by law or practice). If you give them permanent residency (green cards) they are eligible for a whole host of additional benefits. And then there will be those who want to give them citizenship (makes them eligible for even more bennies) + thats more democrat votes.

Plus how would giving amesty to millions of illegals be fair to the tens of millions who legally immigrated to the US, taking years and thousands of dollars to complete the process?

[kalm]

Ahem….”crisis”…..only becomes crisis if Trump gets elected.

Speaker Johnson says dire, urgent immigration crisis should wait until 2025.


Well, this view has just received further corroboration. Over the weekend, House Speaker Mike Johnson made clear that what’s occurring on the southern U.S. border is not a crisis demanding action, but a political opportunity that he and his party would like to defer until after the general election—and then, they intend to act on it only if Republicans win.


That’s right. During a call this weekend with members of the House Republican Conference, Johnson said Congress will not be able to address the border issue until his party retakes the White House. That means this “crisis”—the preferred framing of Republicans in campaign mode and conservative media looking to lend them a helping hand—will have to wait at least another year. (Johnson’s position also implicitly requires Republicans to achieve a trifecta by gaining control of both chambers of Congress in addition to the White House, further narrowing the conditions of action that are acceptable to him.)

https://open.substack.com/pub/thebulwar ... dium=email

[GannonFan]

Ahem….”crisis”…..only becomes crisis if Trump gets elected.

Speaker Johnson says dire, urgent immigration crisis should wait until 2025.


Well, this view has just received further corroboration. Over the weekend, House Speaker Mike Johnson made clear that what’s occurring on the southern U.S. border is not a crisis demanding action, but a political opportunity that he and his party would like to defer until after the general election—and then, they intend to act on it only if Republicans win.


That’s right. During a call this weekend with members of the House Republican Conference, Johnson said Congress will not be able to address the border issue until his party retakes the White House. That means this “crisis”—the preferred framing of Republicans in campaign mode and conservative media looking to lend them a helping hand—will have to wait at least another year. (Johnson’s position also implicitly requires Republicans to achieve a trifecta by gaining control of both chambers of Congress in addition to the White House, further narrowing the conditions of action that are acceptable to him.)

https://open.substack.com/pub/thebulwar ... dium=email

Exactly why this doesn't get fixed. It was a crisis for Dems when Trump was in the White House and putting kids in cages. Once Biden got in and the open border policy was crudely put into place, Dems didn't care that millions were crossing the border. It was labeled as a seasonal increase.

[houndawg]

It’s really not that tough, enforce the border

Simple

Congress won't unass the funding to speed up the process

[houndawg]

The last thing our military needs is millions of folks who don't want to be there and are being forced to be there, along with all the folks that would need to be in charge of that. We went all-volunteer in the 70's for a reason. I'd rather spend military money on making the military be good at the job they do rather than having it be an induction center to living in America. That's not its purpose.

Not all, just let them know the military is an option. Screen them of course. I actually believe some of these people would join and serve honorably. The military is not doing well at all with recruiting right now. I know 98 % would just snicker like are you kidding me… but at least put it on the table.

They already know that and there have been immigrants using the military as a path to citizenship for decades. Lots of them

[Caribbean Hen]

This issues a tough one and it ain’t going away soon.

Last night a woman and two children drowned in the Rio Grande that marks the border between the U.S. and Mexico near Eagle Pass, Texas.

U.S. Border Patrol agents knew that a group of six migrants were in distress in the river but could not try to save them, as they normally would, because troops from the Texas National Guard and the Texas Military Department prevented the Border Patrol agents from entering the area where they were struggling: Shelby Park, a 47-acre public park that offers access to a frequently traveled part of the river and is a place where Border Patrol agents often encounter migrants crossing the border illegally.

They could not enter because two days ago, on Thursday, Texas governor Greg Abbott sent armed Texas National Guard soldiers and soldiers from the Texas Military Department to take control of Shelby Park. Rolando Salinas, the mayor of Eagle Pass, posted a video on Facebook showing the troops and saying that a state official had told him that state troops were taking “full control” over Shelby Park “indefinitely.” Salinas made it clear that “[t]his is not something that we wanted. This is not something that we asked for as a city.”

The Texas forces have denied United States Border Patrol officials entry into the park to perform their duties, asserting that Texas officials have power over U.S. officials.

On December 18, Abbott signed into law S.B. 4, a measure that attempts to take into state hands the power over immigration the Constitution gives to the federal government. Courts have repeatedly reinforced that immigration is the responsibility of federal, not state, government, but now, according to Uriel J. García of the Texas Tribune, “some Texas Republicans have said they hope the new law will push the issue back before a U.S. Supreme Court that is more conservative since three appointees of former President Donald Trump joined it.”

On January 3 the Department of Justice filed a lawsuit against the new law, saying: “Texas cannot run its own immigration system. Its efforts, through S.B. 4, intrude on the federal government’s exclusive authority to regulate the entry and removal of noncitizens, frustrate the United States’ immigration operations and proceedings, and interfere with U.S. foreign relations.”

Abbott and MAGA Republicans are teeing up the issue of immigration as a key line of attack on President Joe Biden in 2024, but while they are insisting the issue is so important they will not agree to fund Ukraine’s resistance to Russia’s 2022 invasion until it is solved, they are also unwilling to participate in discussions to fund more border officers or immigration courts. Today, once again, Biden reminded reporters that he has asked Congress to pass new border measures since he took office, but rather than pass new laws, Republicans appear to be doubling down on pushing the idea that migrants threaten American society and that an individual state—Texas, in this case—can override federal authority.

Abbott has spent more than $100 million of Texas tax dollars to send migrants to cities led by Democrats. These migrants have applied for asylum and are waiting for a hearing; they are in the U.S. legally. In September 2023, Texas stopped coordinating with nonprofits in those cities that prepared for migrant arrivals.

Yesterday, Illinois governor J.B. Pritzker wrote to Abbott, calling him out for choosing “to sow chaos in an attempt to score political points.” Pritzker noted that Abbott is “sending asylum seekers from Texas to the Upper Midwest in the middle of winter—many without coats, without shoes to protect them from the snow—to a city whose shelters are already overfilled with migrants you sent here.” Chicago’s temperatures are set to drop below zero this weekend, Pritzker wrote, and he “strongly urge[d]” Abbott to stop sending people to Illinois in these conditions. “You are dropping off asylum seekers without alerting us to their arrivals, at improper locations at all hours of the night.”

Pritzker wrote that he supports bipartisan immigration reform but “[w]hile action is pending at the federal level, I plead with you for mercy for the thousands of people who are powerless to speak for themselves. Please, while winter is threatening vulnerable people’s lives, suspend your transports and do not send more people to our state. We are asking you to help prevent additional deaths. We should be able to come together in a bipartisan fashion to urge Congress to act. But right now, we are talking about human beings and their survival. I hope we can at least agree on saving lives right now.”

Speaking on the right-wing Dana Loesch Show last week, Abbott said, “The only thing that we’re not doing is we’re not shooting people who come across the border, because of course the Biden administration would charge us with murder.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/heatherco ... paign=post

Fake news

Perfect example of the 4th estates powerful influence over the unknowing victim Kalm

[UNI88]

This issues a tough one and it ain’t going away soon.

https://open.substack.com/pub/heatherco ... paign=post

Fake news

Perfect example of the 4th estates powerful influence over the unknowing victim Kalm

The irony is rich.

[Caribbean Hen]

Fake news

Perfect example of the 4th estates powerful influence over the unknowing victim Kalm

The irony is rich.

Nope