Debt Ceiling Bill

[BDKJMU]

Terrible debt ceiling bill that justs kicks the can down the road. Not even close to cutting anything. Only in DC is slowing the rate of growth called a cut. After 8 trillion or whatever it was in increased spending the last 3 years, trimming 1.5 trillion (scored by CBO) of projected increase over the next deacde is a joke. Just adds a couple years onto when the debt time bomb explodes with either a default or hyperinflation. Raises the debt ceiling to 35 trillion, about 133% of current GDP.
https://www.usdebtclock.org

[BDKJMU]

Nails it. Wish he were my rep.

[houndawg]

Terrible debt ceiling bill that justs kicks the can down the road. Not even close to cutting anything. Only in DC is slowing the rate of growth called a cut. After 8 trillion or whatever it was in increased spending the last 3 years, trimming 1.5 trillion (scored by CBO) of projected increase over the next deacde is a joke. Just adds a couple years onto when the debt time bomb explodes with either a default or hyperinflation. Raises the debt ceiling to 35 trillion, about 133% of current GDP.
https://www.usdebtclock.org

Don't whine, BDKaren, all subsidies for yachts and private jets remain firmly in place.

[houndawg]

Nails it. Wish he were my rep.

Just another blowhard asswipe from Texas that can't even keep the power turned on in his own state.

But he's right about the deal never should have been cut. Why don't we remove some of the billions in subsidies the oil companies are gorging on? Its obvious that they don't need them.

[kalm]

Nails it. Wish he were my rep.

Just another blowhard asswipe from Texas that can't even keep the power turned on in his own state.

But he's right about the deal never should have been cut. Why don't we remove some of the billions in subsidies the oil companies are gorging on? Its obvious that they don't need them.

The far left isn’t happy with it either. Biden gave up on a little social spending and allowed for some austerity with the two year cap on discretionary spending. The debt provided by the Bush and Trump tax cuts continue to increase the debt.

Monied interests are satisfied.

[GannonFan]

Nails it. Wish he were my rep.

Just another blowhard asswipe from Texas that can't even keep the power turned on in his own state.

But he's right about the deal never should have been cut. Why don't we remove some of the billions in subsidies the oil companies are gorging on? Its obvious that they don't need them.

Exactly what subsidies are the oil companies getting that aren't also available to every other company in other sectors? I keep hearing this whine but no one ever comes up with details. Being able to depreciate capital equipment over 10 years isn't a subsidy and everyone can do it, not just oil companies. Please link or list oil specific subsidies so we can see exactly what the gripe is about.

[kalm]

Just another blowhard asswipe from Texas that can't even keep the power turned on in his own state.

But he's right about the deal never should have been cut. Why don't we remove some of the billions in subsidies the oil companies are gorging on? Its obvious that they don't need them.

Exactly what subsidies are the oil companies getting that aren't also available to every other company in other sectors? I keep hearing this whine but no one ever comes up with details. Being able to depreciate capital equipment over 10 years isn't a subsidy and everyone can do it, not just oil companies. Please link or list oil specific subsidies so we can see exactly what the gripe is about.

Start with foreign policy. And yes…we all benefit from it but that’s true of bigger industries and it still helps the bottom line.

Next: healthcare costs associated with fossil fuels.

Next: infrastructure

Next: environmental damage including wildfires and storm damage.

We’ve been through this before. You may not like the argument but it’s still a thing.

Next:

[GannonFan]

Exactly what subsidies are the oil companies getting that aren't also available to every other company in other sectors? I keep hearing this whine but no one ever comes up with details. Being able to depreciate capital equipment over 10 years isn't a subsidy and everyone can do it, not just oil companies. Please link or list oil specific subsidies so we can see exactly what the gripe is about.

Start with foreign policy. And yes…we all benefit from it but that’s true of bigger industries and it still helps the bottom line.

Next: healthcare costs associated with fossil fuels.

Next: infrastructure

Next: environmental damage including wildfires and storm damage.

We’ve been through this before. You may not like the argument but it’s still a thing.

Next:

Yes, we have, because those things you throw out there are so vague and so abstract that they're not even useful.

- Foreign policy - how is that specifically oil-related? It's a small world, everything we do and make is either sourced from outside the US or is sold outside the US, and that's in virtually every industry. Even if we just keep it isolated to the energy industry, even solar panels and windmill rotors come from outside the US in large measure, so our foreign policy is implicitly wrapped up in non-fossil fuel activities just as much as it's with industries specifically centered on fossil fuels. So again, what subsidy is the oil industry getting here, or more of, that other industies don't? Answer - none.

- Health care costs associated with fossil fuels - Huh? What industry out there right now isn't using fossil fuels? We use fossil fuels for energy, so every industry or economic sector that uses electricity is part of that (so everyone except maybe the Amish). We all use fossil fuels to drive or to take public transit. So unless we're strictly all using pedaled bicycles (ignoring the sourcing of the rubber for the tires and the energy used in the manufacture of that bike) we're all part of this. The oil industry has plenty of company when it comes to generating health issues from the use of fossil fuels. So again, what subsidy is the oil industry getting here, or more of, that other industies don't? Answer - none.

- Infrastructure - Don't tell me that you're including roads and bridges and other things here because that's been debunked even more than the first two categories. And again, allowing for capital depreciation of equipment and such, regardless of its size, is not a subsidy first off (it's an accounting method) and second it's not any different than every other industry or sector is allowed to do and in fact actually do. So again, what subsidy is the oil industry getting here, or more of, that other industies don't? Answer - none.

- Environmental damage including wildfires and storm damage - Just like the foreign policy argument, everyone's hands, including yours and mine, are in on this. We're all consumers and it's not like we've put up a fight either. And when there is specific environmental damage done by the oil industry, they're not being subsidized - they get fined, they're on the hook financially for the cleanup, and their insurance rates skyrocket. None of that comes from anywhere but their own finances. There's not a government subsidy that pays that. So again, what subsidy is the oil industry getting here, or more of, that other industies don't? Answer - none.

Just because we've had this argument before doesn't mean that you've satisfactorily answered the question of what specific subsidies does the oil industry "get", that no other industry or sector "gets", that is so egregious to warrant special consideration when looking at government spending? Even the puff-ball ones you just threw out are specious at best and easily refuted. There's no doubt that our dependence on fossil fuels for a whole host of things that we depend on and rely on today comes with some serious negative consequences. But that's a different argument from the one that the oil industry only exists because it's lobbied for and gets so much more than anyone else in terms of lax government or government largesse. It betrays a complete lack of understanding of how the world works and how government interacts with that world to keep claiming that the oil industry is propped up by subsidies that no other sector of the economy is also privy to. But again, I welcome the chance to see that with links or information to the contrary.

[BDKJMU]

Just another blowhard asswipe from Texas that can't even keep the power turned on in his own state.

But he's right about the deal never should have been cut. Why don't we remove some of the billions in subsidies the oil companies are gorging on? Its obvious that they don't need them.

The far left isn’t happy with it either. Biden gave up on a little social spending and allowed for some austerity with the two year cap on discretionary spending. The debt provided by the Bush and Trump tax cuts continue to increase the debt.

Monied interests are satisfied.

'Austerity'. This govt hasn't practiced austerity in our lifetimes, and certainly won't be for the next 2 years, or for any time period after that, until it is forced upon them..

The only thing that increases the debt is government spending...

[BDKJMU]

Exactly what subsidies are the oil companies getting that aren't also available to every other company in other sectors? I keep hearing this whine but no one ever comes up with details. Being able to depreciate capital equipment over 10 years isn't a subsidy and everyone can do it, not just oil companies. Please link or list oil specific subsidies so we can see exactly what the gripe is about.

Start with foreign policy. And yes…we all benefit from it but that’s true of bigger industries and it still helps the bottom line.

Next: healthcare costs associated with fossil fuels.

Next: infrastructure

Next: environmental damage including wildfires and storm damage.

We’ve been through this before. You may not like the argument but it’s still a thing.

Next:

I'll give the shorter version than GF. None of those are subsidies, which you clearly need to look up the definition of.

Yes, we've been through this many times before. And you've been just as wrong those times as you are now.

[kalm]

Start with foreign policy. And yes…we all benefit from it but that’s true of bigger industries and it still helps the bottom line.

Next: healthcare costs associated with fossil fuels.

Next: infrastructure

Next: environmental damage including wildfires and storm damage.

We’ve been through this before. You may not like the argument but it’s still a thing.

Next:

I'll give the shorter version than GF. None of those are subsidies, which you clearly need to look up the definition of.

Yes, we've been through this many times before. And you've been just as wrong those times as you are now.

sub·si·dy
/ˈsəbsədē/
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See definitions in:
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Commerce
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noun
1.
a sum of money granted by the government or a public body to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive.
"a farm subsidy"

[BDKJMU]

I'll give the shorter version than GF. None of those are subsidies, which you clearly need to look up the definition of.

Yes, we've been through this many times before. And you've been just as wrong those times as you are now.

sub·si·dy
/ˈsəbsədē/
Filter definitions by topic
See definitions in:
All
Commerce
Royalty
Economics
noun
1.
a sum of money granted by the government or a public body to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive.
"a farm subsidy"

And name a direct payment "big oil" is getting from the US govt.

[UNI88]

The far left isn’t happy with it either. Biden gave up on a little social spending and allowed for some austerity with the two year cap on discretionary spending. The debt provided by the Bush and Trump tax cuts continue to increase the debt.

Monied interests are satisfied.

'Austerity'. This govt hasn't practiced austerity in our lifetimes, and certainly won't be for the next 2 years, or for any time period after that, until it is forced upon them..

The only thing that increases the debt is government spending...

Au contraire mon frère, cutting taxes can also lead to an increase in the debt. Not all tax cuts stimulate the economy enough to pay for themselves.



Did the 2017 tax cut—the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act—pay for itself?

[BDKJMU]

'Austerity'. This govt hasn't practiced austerity in our lifetimes, and certainly won't be for the next 2 years, or for any time period after that, until it is forced upon them..

The only thing that increases the debt is government spending...

Au contraire mon frère, cutting taxes can also lead to an increase in the debt. Not all tax cuts stimulate the economy enough to pay for themselves.



Did the 2017 tax cut—the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act—pay for itself?

Only if the govt spends too much money..

[UNI88]

Au contraire mon frère, cutting taxes can also lead to an increase in the debt. Not all tax cuts stimulate the economy enough to pay for themselves.



Did the 2017 tax cut—the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act—pay for itself?

Only if the govt spends too much money..

The government has been spending too much money for a long time but that's irrelevant to the question "did the trump tax cuts increase the debt?"

[BDKJMU]

Only if the govt spends too much money..

The government has been spending too much money for a long time but that's irrelevant to the question "did the trump tax cuts increase the debt?"

The 3+ trillion in Covid spending in Trump's last year increased the debt, and then Biden said "Hold My Beer" and added another 5 trillion or so in so called Covid, Infrastructure, 'Inflation' Reduction Act, etc, etc, etc.

[UNI88]

The government has been spending too much money for a long time but that's irrelevant to the question "did the trump tax cuts increase the debt?"

The 3+ trillion in Covid spending in Trump's last year increased the debt, and then Biden said "Hold My Beer" and added another 5 trillion or so in so called Covid, Infrastructure, 'Inflation' Reduction Act, etc, etc, etc.

Look at the Brookings chart. It increased the debt in 2018 and 2019 before COVID.

[BDKJMU]

The 3+ trillion in Covid spending in Trump's last year increased the debt, and then Biden said "Hold My Beer" and added another 5 trillion or so in so called Covid, Infrastructure, 'Inflation' Reduction Act, etc, etc, etc.

Look at the Brookings chart. It increased the debt in 2018 and 2019 before COVID.

The Brookings chart shows tax revenue going down in 2017. According to the below in 2017 fed tax revenue increased.
https://www.thebalancemoney.com/current ... ue-3305762

And the Brookings Chart only goes through 2017. Where's 2018 and 2019? Most of the Trump tax cuts didn't take effect until 2018. Tax revenue still increased each of the 1st 3 years under Trump. The only year they fell was 2020 due to Covid.

[UNI88]

Look at the Brookings chart. It increased the debt in 2018 and 2019 before COVID.

The Brookings chart shows tax revenue going down in 2017. According to the below in 2017 fed tax revenue increased.
https://www.thebalancemoney.com/current ... ue-3305762

And the Brookings Chart only goes through 2017. Where's 2018 and 2019? Most of the Trump tax cuts didn't take effect until 2018.

Look deeper ...

While some TCJA supporters observe that nominal revenues were higher in fiscal year 2018 (which began Oct. 1, 2017) than in FY2017, that comparison does not address the question of the TCJA’s effects. Nominal revenues rise because of inflation and economic growth. Adjusted for inflation, total revenues fell from FY2017 to FY2018 (Figure 1). Adjusted for the size of the economy, they fell even more.

[houndawg]

Just another blowhard asswipe from Texas that can't even keep the power turned on in his own state.

But he's right about the deal never should have been cut. Why don't we remove some of the billions in subsidies the oil companies are gorging on? Its obvious that they don't need them.

Exactly what subsidies are the oil companies getting that aren't also available to every other company in other sectors? I keep hearing this whine but no one ever comes up with details. Being able to depreciate capital equipment over 10 years isn't a subsidy and everyone can do it, not just oil companies. Please link or list oil specific subsidies so we can see exactly what the gripe is about.

We guarantee their safety anywhere they extract oil and anwhere they ship it.

[BDKJMU]

The Brookings chart shows tax revenue going down in 2017. According to the below in 2017 fed tax revenue increased.
https://www.thebalancemoney.com/current ... ue-3305762

And the Brookings Chart only goes through 2017. Where's 2018 and 2019? Most of the Trump tax cuts didn't take effect until 2018.

Look deeper ...

While some TCJA supporters observe that nominal revenues were higher in fiscal year 2018 (which began Oct. 1, 2017) than in FY2017, that comparison does not address the question of the TCJA’s effects. Nominal revenues rise because of inflation and economic growth. Adjusted for inflation, total revenues fell from FY2017 to FY2018 (Figure 1). Adjusted for the size of the economy, they fell even more.

So govt revenues increased every year, but in inflation adjusted terms they fell for one year, 2017, the last year the outdated Brookings chart shows. How convenient.

According to the below, it looks like the Trump tax cuts are leading to MORE revenues.

KEY TAKEAWAYS
The government now expects to bring in more tax revenue in the decade following the 2017 “Trump tax cuts” than it had projected prior to the passage of tax reform.

The corporate tax reform propelled higher income growth and therefore higher income taxes and payroll taxes.

https://www.heritage.org/taxes/commenta ... -cuts-paid
So I'll say it again, too much govt spending has led to our debt problem, not taxes being cut. The govt has a spending problem, not a revenue problem.

[kalm]

Exactly what subsidies are the oil companies getting that aren't also available to every other company in other sectors? I keep hearing this whine but no one ever comes up with details. Being able to depreciate capital equipment over 10 years isn't a subsidy and everyone can do it, not just oil companies. Please link or list oil specific subsidies so we can see exactly what the gripe is about.

We guarantee their safety anywhere they extract oil and anwhere they ship it.

But that’s not a direct payment hence not a subsidy.

[BDKJMU]

We guarantee their safety anywhere they extract oil and anwhere they ship it.

But that’s not a direct payment hence not a subsidy.

You're learning.

[UNI88]

Look deeper ...

So govt revenues increased every year, but in inflation adjusted terms they fell for one year, 2017, the last year the outdated Brookings chart shows. How convenient.

According to the below, it looks like the Trump tax cuts are leading to MORE revenues.

KEY TAKEAWAYS
The government now expects to bring in more tax revenue in the decade following the 2017 “Trump tax cuts” than it had projected prior to the passage of tax reform.

The corporate tax reform propelled higher income growth and therefore higher income taxes and payroll taxes.

https://www.heritage.org/taxes/commenta ... -cuts-paid
So I'll say it again, too much govt spending has led to our debt problem, not taxes being cut. The govt has a spending problem, not a revenue problem.

Heritage Foundation is biased Fake News, Brookings is more reliable.

I agree that the government has a spending problem but cutting taxes without corresponding spending cuts can increase the debt and did with trump's cuts. It's ok, he lied about being a stable genius and not everything he did worked out.

[BDKJMU]

So govt revenues increased every year, but in inflation adjusted terms they fell for one year, 2017, the last year the outdated Brookings chart shows. How convenient.

According to the below, it looks like the Trump tax cuts are leading to MORE revenues.

https://www.heritage.org/taxes/commenta ... -cuts-paid
So I'll say it again, too much govt spending has led to our debt problem, not taxes being cut. The govt has a spending problem, not a revenue problem.

Heritage Foundation is biased Fake News, Brookings is more reliable.

I agree that the government has a spending problem but cutting taxes without corresponding spending cuts can increase the debt and did with trump's cuts. It's ok, he lied about being a stable genius and not everything he did worked out.

Brookings is as left as Heritage is right.

Nope, Trumps tax cuts didn't increase the debt. But too much spending under him did, esp his last year.