2022 Elections Thread

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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:01 am
Winterborn wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:49 am

Or it just shows how bad Biden is being perceived at doing his job. :coffee:

People know where they stand with Trump, love, hate, or tolerate, he is at least consistent in polling. Biden's bottom seems to be right around that 39 or 40% mark.

Some of the other trends are interesting, especially related to the energy policy and climate.
Further fire…

What fire? It is just Penski doing her job and trying to conflate two disparate issues into a tweet for the low information voter. Considering not voting D because of the economy has nothing to do with Trump. If Penski wants voters to see Trump and his supporters as a bigger risk than the crashing the economy, she should put forth the reason why.

Then again that is why the whole January 6th committee was created in the first place and polling has shown how high that ranks on peoples lists. See the other thread arguing the validity and optics of that message.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:58 am
kalm wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:01 am

Further fire…

What fire? It is just Penski doing her job and trying to conflate two disparate issues into a tweet for the low information voter. Considering not voting D because of the economy has nothing to do with Trump. If Penski wants voters to see Trump and his supporters as a bigger risk than the crashing the economy, she should put forth the reason why.

Then again that is why the whole January 6th committee was created in the first place and polling has shown how high that ranks on peoples lists. See the other thread arguing the validity and optics of that message.
The fire of the impending D loss and ability to look past the big lie. We prioritize economic swings over democracy.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:51 am
Winterborn wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:49 am
Or it just shows how bad Biden is being perceived at doing his job. :coffee:

People know where they stand with Trump, love, hate, or tolerate, he is at least consistent in polling. Biden's bottom seems to be right around that 39 or 40% mark.

Some of the other trends are interesting, especially related to the energy policy and climate.
Yes…although it’s almost always thus with incumbents and mid-terms.

It also shows how short sighted and selfish voters continue to be along with a failure to address working class issues or sell solutions.

It was ‘88 degrees in Seattle yesterday. The R’s have seemingly little to offer in economic improvements other than see how bad things are and here’s some more tax cuts to at the top.

The good old days and negativity are easier to pitch than needed change and actual ideas.

Oh well.
Change the bolded to: "The D’s have seemingly little to offer in economic improvements other than see how mean trump is and here’s some more spending at the top." and you have the Democrats 2020 campaigns in a nutshell.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:15 am
kalm wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:51 am

Yes…although it’s almost always thus with incumbents and mid-terms.

It also shows how short sighted and selfish voters continue to be along with a failure to address working class issues or sell solutions.

It was ‘88 degrees in Seattle yesterday. The R’s have seemingly little to offer in economic improvements other than see how bad things are and here’s some more tax cuts to at the top.

The good old days and negativity are easier to pitch than needed change and actual ideas.

Oh well.
Change the bolded to: "The D’s have seemingly little to offer in economic improvements other than see how mean trump is and here’s some more spending at the top." and you have the Democrats 2020 campaigns in a nutshell.
Start with protecting social security and Medicare then go from there to hearing aides, college loan forgiveness…
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:18 am
UNI88 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:15 am

Change the bolded to: "The D’s have seemingly little to offer in economic improvements other than see how mean trump is and here’s some more spending at the top." and you have the Democrats 2020 campaigns in a nutshell.
Start with protecting social security and Medicare then go from there to hearing aides, college loan forgiveness…
Didn't realize college loan forgiveness was an economic improvement? Throwing all that money to folks in the higher income brackets is normally a GOP tact, very unlike the Dems to back such a regressive economic policy.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:15 am
Winterborn wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:58 am

What fire? It is just Penski doing her job and trying to conflate two disparate issues into a tweet for the low information voter. Considering not voting D because of the economy has nothing to do with Trump. If Penski wants voters to see Trump and his supporters as a bigger risk than the crashing the economy, she should put forth the reason why.

Then again that is why the whole January 6th committee was created in the first place and polling has shown how high that ranks on peoples lists. See the other thread arguing the validity and optics of that message.
The fire of the impending D loss and ability to look past the big lie. We prioritize economic swings over democracy.
I vote my wallet. Guessing others do the same and see that the Trump is being handled via due process and it is time to move on.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:15 am
Winterborn wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:58 am
What fire? It is just Penski doing her job and trying to conflate two disparate issues into a tweet for the low information voter. Considering not voting D because of the economy has nothing to do with Trump. If Penski wants voters to see Trump and his supporters as a bigger risk than the crashing the economy, she should put forth the reason why.

Then again that is why the whole January 6th committee was created in the first place and polling has shown how high that ranks on peoples lists. See the other thread arguing the validity and optics of that message.
The fire of the impending D loss and ability to look past the big lie. We prioritize economic swings over democracy.
I'm all for democracy. I think trump should be investigated by real detectives and prosecuted for any crimes he committed. I feel the same about Hunter and Joe and that the FBI choosing to delay any investigation into Hunter's laptop for political reasons was a shot to democracy. I believe that DoJ/FBI investigation of the trump campaign is/was at least as great of a long-term threat to democracy as January 6. The first impeachment was also an attempt to overturn an election and should be considered a threat to democracy.

Which party is the threat to democracy again? I would argue that both major parties are a threat when it gets in the way of their pursuit of power.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by Winterborn »

UNI88 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:57 am
kalm wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:15 am

The fire of the impending D loss and ability to look past the big lie. We prioritize economic swings over democracy.
I'm all for democracy. I think trump should be investigated by real detectives and prosecuted for any crimes he committed. I feel the same about Hunter and Joe and that the FBI choosing to delay any investigation into Hunter's laptop for political reasons was a shot to democracy. I believe that DoJ/FBI investigation of the trump campaign is/was at least as great of a long-term threat to democracy as January 6. The first impeachment was also an attempt to overturn an election and should be considered a threat to democracy.

Which party is the threat to democracy again? I would argue that both major parties are a threat when it gets in the way of their pursuit of power.
Well said. :nod:
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:57 am
kalm wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:15 am

The fire of the impending D loss and ability to look past the big lie. We prioritize economic swings over democracy.
I'm all for democracy. I think trump should be investigated by real detectives and prosecuted for any crimes he committed. I feel the same about Hunter and Joe and that the FBI choosing to delay any investigation into Hunter's laptop for political reasons was a shot to democracy. I believe that DoJ/FBI investigation of the trump campaign is/was at least as great of a long-term threat to democracy as January 6. The first impeachment was also an attempt to overturn an election and should be considered a threat to democracy.

Which party is the threat to democracy again? I would argue that both major parties are a threat when it gets in the way of their pursuit of power.
Why didn’t the Trump admin fully prosecute the attempted Democratic coup? Also… has Durham finished yet?
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:17 pm
UNI88 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:57 am

I'm all for democracy. I think trump should be investigated by real detectives and prosecuted for any crimes he committed. I feel the same about Hunter and Joe and that the FBI choosing to delay any investigation into Hunter's laptop for political reasons was a shot to democracy. I believe that DoJ/FBI investigation of the trump campaign is/was at least as great of a long-term threat to democracy as January 6. The first impeachment was also an attempt to overturn an election and should be considered a threat to democracy.

Which party is the threat to democracy again? I would argue that both major parties are a threat when it gets in the way of their pursuit of power.
Why didn’t the Trump admin fully prosecute the attempted Democratic coup? Also… has Durham finished yet?
I don't think the President is easily able to prosecute Congress, if really at all. Constitution and all. :thumb:
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:21 pm
kalm wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:17 pm

Why didn’t the Trump admin fully prosecute the attempted Democratic coup? Also… has Durham finished yet?
I don't think the President is easily able to prosecute Congress, if really at all. Constitution and all. :thumb:
The DOJ isn’t? Trump was being held back by his respect for the constitution?
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:18 pm
GannonFan wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:21 pm

I don't think the President is easily able to prosecute Congress, if really at all. Constitution and all. :thumb:
The DOJ isn’t? Trump was being held back by his respect for the constitution?
Attorney General runs the DOJ. I don't remember the AG being the personal lawyer for the President. Besides, DOJ was busy with the Mueller Investigation and figuring out how they duped themselves in the leadup to the 2016 elections. Tough keeping track of who was or wasn't an informant, which set of lies needed to be listed on the warrant applications to get FISA warrants, and who was writing all this stuff they were acting on and what parts were made up for what purposes. It was pretty complicated stuff. Still sorting it all out even now. :coffee:
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:46 pm
kalm wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:18 pm

The DOJ isn’t? Trump was being held back by his respect for the constitution?
Attorney General runs the DOJ. I don't remember the AG being the personal lawyer for the President. Besides, DOJ was busy with the Mueller Investigation and figuring out how they duped themselves in the leadup to the 2016 elections. Tough keeping track of who was or wasn't an informant, which set of lies needed to be listed on the warrant applications to get FISA warrants, and who was writing all this stuff they were acting on and what parts were made up for what purposes. It was pretty complicated stuff. Still sorting it all out even now. :coffee:
So it’s a grand conspiracy that no one could touch.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by kalm »

We’re talking next level deep, man.

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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

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BDKJMU wrote: Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:50 pm Should have started a Fetterman gafs and verbal bungles thread. He‘s worse than Biden..
Maybe he meant Jobim. :mrgreen:
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by houndawg »

GannonFan wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:26 am
kalm wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:18 am

Start with protecting social security and Medicare then go from there to hearing aides, college loan forgiveness…
Didn't realize college loan forgiveness was an economic improvement? Throwing all that money to folks in the higher income brackets is normally a GOP tact, very unlike the Dems to back such a regressive economic policy.
Wow.. :?

The point is that all that money isn't being thrown to folks in the higher income brackets......that's why Republicans are opposed... :ohno:
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by GannonFan »

houndawg wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:06 am
GannonFan wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:26 am

Didn't realize college loan forgiveness was an economic improvement? Throwing all that money to folks in the higher income brackets is normally a GOP tact, very unlike the Dems to back such a regressive economic policy.
Wow.. :?

The point is that all that money isn't being thrown to folks in the higher income brackets......that's why Republicans are opposed... :ohno:
No, Republicans are opposed to it because the Democrats are for it. That's basically politics in our day and age and not really a glowing endorsement of either party. As for the student loan debacle, it's been analyzed over and over - the main beneficiaries are predominately white, predominately upper middle class or higher, and are generally people who, in a couple of years, are going to be wealthier than the vast majority of Americans. It's as regressive of an income redistribution as possible, which was always one of the many reasons not to do a student loan relief in the way they are currently about to do it - especially when there's absolutely zero effort being made to address the root causes of the massive debt load in the first place. And not only is there zero effort to do that, Biden went even further and doubled down on making college costs, and likely future debt, even higher when he, on the backside of this loan default bailout, changed the conditions of future loan repayments and almost guaranteeing future write-offs. It's hard to have made a worse decision regarding student loan bailouts, but gotta hand it to Biden, he found a way to do just that. Economic policy is not really a strong suit for the cognitively declined. :coffee:
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:37 am
houndawg wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:06 am

Wow.. :?

The point is that all that money isn't being thrown to folks in the higher income brackets......that's why Republicans are opposed... :ohno:
No, Republicans are opposed to it because the Democrats are for it. That's basically politics in our day and age and not really a glowing endorsement of either party. As for the student loan debacle, it's been analyzed over and over - the main beneficiaries are predominately white, predominately upper middle class or higher, and are generally people who, in a couple of years, are going to be wealthier than the vast majority of Americans. It's as regressive of an income redistribution as possible, which was always one of the many reasons not to do a student loan relief in the way they are currently about to do it - especially when there's absolutely zero effort being made to address the root causes of the massive debt load in the first place. And not only is there zero effort to do that, Biden went even further and doubled down on making college costs, and likely future debt, even higher when he, on the backside of this loan default bailout, changed the conditions of future loan repayments and almost guaranteeing future write-offs. It's hard to have made a worse decision regarding student loan bailouts, but gotta hand it to Biden, he found a way to do just that. Economic policy is not really a strong suit for the cognitively declined. :coffee:
But we’re still talking middle class right? Those making over $125,000/year don’t qualify. It’s regressive in that working class people without student debt don’t benefit but the stimulus still benefits the economy as a whole.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:48 am
GannonFan wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:37 am

No, Republicans are opposed to it because the Democrats are for it. That's basically politics in our day and age and not really a glowing endorsement of either party. As for the student loan debacle, it's been analyzed over and over - the main beneficiaries are predominately white, predominately upper middle class or higher, and are generally people who, in a couple of years, are going to be wealthier than the vast majority of Americans. It's as regressive of an income redistribution as possible, which was always one of the many reasons not to do a student loan relief in the way they are currently about to do it - especially when there's absolutely zero effort being made to address the root causes of the massive debt load in the first place. And not only is there zero effort to do that, Biden went even further and doubled down on making college costs, and likely future debt, even higher when he, on the backside of this loan default bailout, changed the conditions of future loan repayments and almost guaranteeing future write-offs. It's hard to have made a worse decision regarding student loan bailouts, but gotta hand it to Biden, he found a way to do just that. Economic policy is not really a strong suit for the cognitively declined. :coffee:
But we’re still talking middle class right? Those making over $125,000/year don’t qualify. It’s regressive in that working class people without student debt don’t benefit but the stimulus still benefits the economy as a whole.
No, we're not talking middle class. Young folks (who this relief targets) in their mid to late 20's aren't making over $125k yet - but this relief is going to mostly college graduates (granted, some going to folks who didn't graduate) who have their whole careers ahead of them and many will be making well in excess of the $125k as soon as next year or the several years to come. Kids coming out of law school are just as likely to get this relief as a first generation student of color working a low paying, civil service job. In the end, many very well to do people are going to be cashing a $10k check from the government paid for by the 99% of people in this country who will make less in their lifetimes than those people will make in a year. That's regressive.

As to the benefit of the economy as a whole, when did you become a trickle-down guy? A rising water lifts all boats? Like any theory, they have their plusses and minuses. But also consider that we're in the midst of a generational inflation disaster, one that is very directly attributed to government overspend. Again, inflation is always a money-supply phenomenon. We pumped too much money into an economy that didn't need the additional money. Too much money chasing too few goods always results in inflation. This is at least a $400B infusion of money into an already inflationary economy. The benefits to the economy as a whole are significantly in doubt. Unless you enjoy inflation, which if you do this is welcome news. :coffee:
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:04 am
kalm wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:48 am

But we’re still talking middle class right? Those making over $125,000/year don’t qualify. It’s regressive in that working class people without student debt don’t benefit but the stimulus still benefits the economy as a whole.
No, we're not talking middle class. Young folks (who this relief targets) in their mid to late 20's aren't making over $125k yet - but this relief is going to mostly college graduates (granted, some going to folks who didn't graduate) who have their whole careers ahead of them and many will be making well in excess of the $125k as soon as next year or the several years to come. Kids coming out of law school are just as likely to get this relief as a first generation student of color working a low paying, civil service job. In the end, many very well to do people are going to be cashing a $10k check from the government paid for by the 99% of people in this country who will make less in their lifetimes than those people will make in a year. That's regressive.

As to the benefit of the economy as a whole, when did you become a trickle-down guy? A rising water lifts all boats? Like any theory, they have their plusses and minuses. But also consider that we're in the midst of a generational inflation disaster, one that is very directly attributed to government overspend. Again, inflation is always a money-supply phenomenon. We pumped too much money into an economy that didn't need the additional money. Too much money chasing too few goods always results in inflation. This is at least a $400B infusion of money into an already inflationary economy. The benefits to the economy as a whole are significantly in doubt. Unless you enjoy inflation, which if you do this is welcome news. :coffee:
1) Do you have numbers handy to back that up? Who it’s going to, their income and age, and definition of middle class?

2). Trickle down can be reduced to capital preceding labor. Unless all of these college grads become captains of industry, your attempted gotcha falls flat.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:41 am
GannonFan wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:04 am

No, we're not talking middle class. Young folks (who this relief targets) in their mid to late 20's aren't making over $125k yet - but this relief is going to mostly college graduates (granted, some going to folks who didn't graduate) who have their whole careers ahead of them and many will be making well in excess of the $125k as soon as next year or the several years to come. Kids coming out of law school are just as likely to get this relief as a first generation student of color working a low paying, civil service job. In the end, many very well to do people are going to be cashing a $10k check from the government paid for by the 99% of people in this country who will make less in their lifetimes than those people will make in a year. That's regressive.

As to the benefit of the economy as a whole, when did you become a trickle-down guy? A rising water lifts all boats? Like any theory, they have their plusses and minuses. But also consider that we're in the midst of a generational inflation disaster, one that is very directly attributed to government overspend. Again, inflation is always a money-supply phenomenon. We pumped too much money into an economy that didn't need the additional money. Too much money chasing too few goods always results in inflation. This is at least a $400B infusion of money into an already inflationary economy. The benefits to the economy as a whole are significantly in doubt. Unless you enjoy inflation, which if you do this is welcome news. :coffee:
1) Do you have numbers handy to back that up? Who it’s going to, their income and age, and definition of middle class?

2). Trickle down can be reduced to capital preceding labor. Unless all of these college grads become captains of industry, your attempted gotcha falls flat.
1) I assumed you had the numbers handy since you jumped on it only going to the middle class. I'll just use your analysis.

2) Capital doesn't only come from captains of industry, if there is such a thing anymore. Capital comes from investments - like how Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney bought Wrexham. There are thousands of Reynolds and McElhenney's out there, and millions more with just a little less money to invest. Trickle down is giving those folks money and hoping they invest it well. Your attempt to avoid a gotcha betrays a disturbing lack of understanding of the economy we live in. I thought the Palouse was more connected to the real world than you're making it out to be? :rofl:
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by BDKJMU »

kalm wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:48 am
GannonFan wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:37 am

No, Republicans are opposed to it because the Democrats are for it. That's basically politics in our day and age and not really a glowing endorsement of either party. As for the student loan debacle, it's been analyzed over and over - the main beneficiaries are predominately white, predominately upper middle class or higher, and are generally people who, in a couple of years, are going to be wealthier than the vast majority of Americans. It's as regressive of an income redistribution as possible, which was always one of the many reasons not to do a student loan relief in the way they are currently about to do it - especially when there's absolutely zero effort being made to address the root causes of the massive debt load in the first place. And not only is there zero effort to do that, Biden went even further and doubled down on making college costs, and likely future debt, even higher when he, on the backside of this loan default bailout, changed the conditions of future loan repayments and almost guaranteeing future write-offs. It's hard to have made a worse decision regarding student loan bailouts, but gotta hand it to Biden, he found a way to do just that. Economic policy is not really a strong suit for the cognitively declined. :coffee:
But we’re still talking middle class right? Those making over $125,000/year don’t qualify. It’s regressive in that working class people without student debt don’t benefit but the stimulus still benefits the economy as a whole.
More govt spending on top of trillions of extra govt spending that has caused massive inflation, doesn’t benefit the economy as a whole. It just causes even more inflation.

And in this cause rewards and encourages more irresponsible behavior to a massive # of people which will have negative economic consequences to the exonomy as a whole down the line…
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
JMU Football: 2022 & 2023 Sun Belt East Champions.
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BDKJMU
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by BDKJMU »

Fortunately the courts will strike this down. Are 1/2 doz major lawsuits, with more to come. All it takea is one (likely conk appointed) judge in one of the circuits who will declare a nationwide halt/injunction to this, & then it will make its way through the courts with a 3 judge then full circuit then SCOTUS and be overturned in a year or 2.
Last week:
https://www.businessinsider.com/lawsuit ... nd-2022-10
Yesterday:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/careers ... r-AA136WSj
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
JMU Football: 2022 & 2023 Sun Belt East Champions.
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BDKJMU
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by BDKJMU »

..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
JMU Football: 2022 & 2023 Sun Belt East Champions.
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Re: 2022 Elections Thread

Post by Pwns »

https://www.yahoo.com/video/independent ... 39526.html

So much for the GOP feeling the wrath of the angry wimmin. :lol:
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