Coronavirus COVID-19

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by UNI88 »

BDKJMU wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:50 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:48 pm April 3, 2020 - CDC recommends people wear cloth masks in public – but Trump says he won't
Pretty much worthless.
I agree! Trump was, is and will continue to be pretty much worthless. The best part of him ran down his mother's leg.
Last edited by UNI88 on Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:48 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:44 pm

Covid didn't hit here until mid March. As I've been saying, the CDC and Fauci are experts paid by political entities, and speak for that entity, not the best interest of the people. April 7, Mayo clinic was advising all staff to wear masks, April 14th, required all patients and visitors. There were 30 covid deaths in Minnesota on or before April 6.
Covid was here long before mid-March. :nod: :nod:
"here" as in MInnesota, March 6, first case.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by UNI88 »

Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:30 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:48 pm
Covid was here long before mid-March. :nod: :nod:
"here" as in MInnesota, March 6, first reported case.
FYP

There is a lot of speculation that Covid arrived earlier than initially believed.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

BDKJMU wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:50 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:48 pm April 3, 2020 - CDC recommends people wear cloth masks in public – but Trump says he won't
Pretty much worthless.
Depends on the cloth mask. Research shows the proper 2 layer cloth mask with a filter in the middle works fine. Mask are to reduce the number of virus release by the person that is infected.

Combined with distancing
"We found the most important measure for reducing the risk of exposure to COVID-19 is to wear a mask," says Matthew Callstrom, M.D., Ph.D., chair of the department of radiology at the Mayo, in a news release.

"We found that both disposable paper medical masks and two-layer cloth masks were effective in reducing droplet transmission and we did not find a difference between mask types in terms of how well they blocked aerosol particles emitted by the wearer."

The Mayo found that along with mask-wearing and social distancing, other effective measures to reduce the risk of transmission include frequent hand-washing, using hand sanitizer before and after meals and after removing masks, and honoring "posted room capacities in busy areas."
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Perhaps more importantly, masks drastically reduce the number of droplets that
make it beyond the wearer’s mask and into
their surroundings.
- Mayo Clinic
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by SeattleGriz »

Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:39 pm
BDKJMU wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:50 pm
Pretty much worthless.
Depends on the cloth mask. Research shows the proper 2 layer cloth mask with a filter in the middle works fine. Mask are to reduce the number of virus release by the person that is infected.

Combined with distancing
"We found the most important measure for reducing the risk of exposure to COVID-19 is to wear a mask," says Matthew Callstrom, M.D., Ph.D., chair of the department of radiology at the Mayo, in a news release.

"We found that both disposable paper medical masks and two-layer cloth masks were effective in reducing droplet transmission and we did not find a difference between mask types in terms of how well they blocked aerosol particles emitted by the wearer."

The Mayo found that along with mask-wearing and social distancing, other effective measures to reduce the risk of transmission include frequent hand-washing, using hand sanitizer before and after meals and after removing masks, and honoring "posted room capacities in busy areas."
Image

Perhaps more importantly, masks drastically reduce the number of droplets that
make it beyond the wearer’s mask and into
their surroundings.
- Mayo Clinic
You already said it. You steer clear of people hacking, which masks and coughing into your elbow do effectively. What are you doing for the exhale that goes around the mask and stays suspended in the air for hours? If you aren't properly wearing an N95 mask, you are exposed.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by SeattleGriz »

kalm wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:25 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:51 pm

In regards to your statement about a lack of national leadership, what would you have liked to seen?

Personally, I was fine with national leadership leaving it up to each state, but realize not everyone feels that way.
There have been numerous articles on it, not to mention real identity examples of national strategy elsewhere.

A few that come to mind:

A convening of governors lead by Trump and the CDC to coordinate more between states and obtain support from the feds where needed.

Warp speed on reliable and available testing.

Actually purchasing and distributing enough vaccine.

Not downplaying the fucking threat.
I had to delete my first post, as it was too assholish, but the spirit of the post was asking why you give two shits what WaPo and Atlantic say? Both have been exposed as being douchebag rags and I think you are informed enough to make your own decisions.

I've said it before. While I got my degree in Microbiology, it doesn't take much time for people to get up to speed. Science is slow.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:32 pm
kalm wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:25 am

There have been numerous articles on it, not to mention real identity examples of national strategy elsewhere.

A few that come to mind:

A convening of governors lead by Trump and the CDC to coordinate more between states and obtain support from the feds where needed.

Warp speed on reliable and available testing.

Actually purchasing and distributing enough vaccine.

Not downplaying the fucking threat.
I had to delete my first post, as it was too assholish, but the spirit of the post was asking why you give two shits what WaPo and Atlantic say? Both have been exposed as being douchebag rags and I think you are informed enough to make your own decisions.

I've said it before. While I got my degree in Microbiology, it doesn't take much time for people to get up to speed. Science is slow.
Atlantic and WaPo have done some fine coverage. You may not find it agreeable to your schtick.

But there is a shit ton of other commentary on the topic from additional sources.

Guilianni has a law degree and Scott Atlas is a real doctor too...so don’t feel bad.

:lol:
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:26 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:39 pm

Depends on the cloth mask. Research shows the proper 2 layer cloth mask with a filter in the middle works fine. Mask are to reduce the number of virus release by the person that is infected.

Combined with distancing
"We found the most important measure for reducing the risk of exposure to COVID-19 is to wear a mask," says Matthew Callstrom, M.D., Ph.D., chair of the department of radiology at the Mayo, in a news release.

"We found that both disposable paper medical masks and two-layer cloth masks were effective in reducing droplet transmission and we did not find a difference between mask types in terms of how well they blocked aerosol particles emitted by the wearer."

The Mayo found that along with mask-wearing and social distancing, other effective measures to reduce the risk of transmission include frequent hand-washing, using hand sanitizer before and after meals and after removing masks, and honoring "posted room capacities in busy areas."
Image

Perhaps more importantly, masks drastically reduce the number of droplets that
make it beyond the wearer’s mask and into
their surroundings.
- Mayo Clinic
You already said it. You steer clear of people hacking, which masks and coughing into your elbow do effectively. What are you doing for the exhale that goes around the mask and stays suspended in the air for hours? If you aren't properly wearing an N95 mask, you are exposed.
Mask doesn't stop everything, it stops enough to reduce the amount of virus in the environment. According to the Mayo Clinic, is better than no mask. Following protocol doesn't prevent me from getting covid, it reduces the chances.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Gil, after 1+ year, it's a lost cause.

For some reason people of the world figured it out, yet Americans can't understand masks are ONE variable of a multivariable equation.

They go "mAsKs DoNt WoRk" while wearing it under their nose, as they sit two feet away from someone, indoors, for 4 hours.

Thank you science for creating vaccines to blunt our collective stupidity.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by SeattleGriz »

Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:19 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:26 pm

You already said it. You steer clear of people hacking, which masks and coughing into your elbow do effectively. What are you doing for the exhale that goes around the mask and stays suspended in the air for hours? If you aren't properly wearing an N95 mask, you are exposed.
Mask doesn't stop everything, it stops enough to reduce the amount of virus in the environment. According to the Mayo Clinic, is better than no mask. Following protocol doesn't prevent me from getting covid, it reduces the chances.
It stops enough to prevent those assholes you would avoid if they sneezed on you. I'm talking about the asymptomatic spreaders that are wearing masks that aren't properly worn.

How are you preventing their "vapor", which passes around their mask, from entering your airway? Unless you are properly wearing an N95 mask, you are inhaling COVID vapor, which has been shown to "linger" in the air for two hours?

Nobody inhales spittle unless someone talks into their mouth.
Last edited by SeattleGriz on Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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∞∞∞ wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:25 pm Gil, after 1+ year, it's a lost cause.

For some reason people of the world figured it out, yet Americans can't understand masks are ONE variable of a multivariable equation.

They go "mAsKs DoNt WoRk" while wearing it under their nose, as they sit two feet away from someone, indoors, for 4 hours.

Thank you science for creating vaccines to blunt our collective stupidity.
I value your opinion bro, but it really is much more complex, and not really, than you make it seem in your post.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by SeattleGriz »

kalm wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:54 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:32 pm

I had to delete my first post, as it was too assholish, but the spirit of the post was asking why you give two shits what WaPo and Atlantic say? Both have been exposed as being douchebag rags and I think you are informed enough to make your own decisions.

I've said it before. While I got my degree in Microbiology, it doesn't take much time for people to get up to speed. Science is slow.
Atlantic and WaPo have done some fine coverage. You may not find it agreeable to your schtick.

But there is a shit ton of other commentary on the topic from additional sources.

Guilianni has a law degree and Scott Atlas is a real doctor too...so don’t feel bad.

:lol:
Agreeable to my shtick? It's called understanding the basics, which means graduate level Biochemistry, Virology and Immunology. But please, keep telling me how I don't quite grasp the biased coverage from your shit sources and your uninformed opinions.

When I have to explain natural selection to you, it shows your lack of understanding.
Last edited by SeattleGriz on Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:58 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:19 pm

Mask doesn't stop everything, it stops enough to reduce the amount of virus in the environment. According to the Mayo Clinic, is better than no mask. Following protocol doesn't prevent me from getting covid, it reduces the chances.
It stops enough to prevent those assholes you would avoid if they sneezed on you. I'm talking about the asymptomatic spreaders that are wearing masks that aren't properly worn.

How are you preventing their "vapor", which passes around their mask, from entering your airway? Unless you are properly wearing an N95 mask, you are inhaling COVID vapor, which has been shown to "linger" in the air for two hours?

Nobody inhales spittle unless someone talks into their mouth.
The Mayo Clinic study says a layered cloth mask is nearly as good as a N95 mask, I also distance from them. I wear a homemade masks that have 2 layers and a filter in the middle. I don't walk down the same isle in a store. I do my best to reduce the chances. Unfortunately, people still get sick using the protocol. Protocol reduces the chance, it doesn't prevent covid.

How much viral load does it take to cause someone to be infected by Covid? Can you be infected by 1 virus, 10, or 100,000.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by SeattleGriz »

Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:15 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:58 pm

It stops enough to prevent those assholes you would avoid if they sneezed on you. I'm talking about the asymptomatic spreaders that are wearing masks that aren't properly worn.

How are you preventing their "vapor", which passes around their mask, from entering your airway? Unless you are properly wearing an N95 mask, you are inhaling COVID vapor, which has been shown to "linger" in the air for two hours?

Nobody inhales spittle unless someone talks into their mouth.
The Mayo Clinic study says a layered cloth mask is nearly as good as a N95 mask, I also distance from them. I wear a homemade masks that have 2 layers and a filter in the middle. I don't walk down the same isle in a store. I do my best to reduce the chances. Unfortunately, people still get sick using the protocol. Protocol reduces the chance, it doesn't prevent covid.

How much viral load does it take to cause someone to be infected by Covid? Can you be infected by 1 virus, 10, or 100,000.
Let's take this one step at a time. Do you feel any air come in around the mask. Like by your cheeks?

Essentially, is all the air you breath in, coming through the mask?
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by ∞∞∞ »

SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:00 pm
∞∞∞ wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:25 pm Gil, after 1+ year, it's a lost cause.

For some reason people of the world figured it out, yet Americans can't understand masks are ONE variable of a multivariable equation.

They go "mAsKs DoNt WoRk" while wearing it under their nose, as they sit two feet away from someone, indoors, for 4 hours.

Thank you science for creating vaccines to blunt our collective stupidity.
I value your opinion bro, but it really is much more complex, and not really, than you make it seem in your post.
I was on team that created the fluid dynamic simulations which Johns Hopkins University has used for their research and published material.

Cloth masks work.

I think you imagine aerosol particulates as moving in some straight line through gaps in cloth material, but that's not how fluids move. Aerosol particulates zig and zag through the air and since cloth materials are fibrous and gaps uneven, they get caught up in the woven material easily. N95 masks work better because the material is tighter, but most cloth material isn't significantly worse.

If you want to conceptualize it, think of baking cloths (usually cotton) used to steam food. Cotton is fairly porous, but since fluids zig zag, it still does a great job trapping heated particulates (gaseous vapor) inside the pot. Of course some escapes, but most is blocked and retained.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by SeattleGriz »

∞∞∞ wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:35 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:00 pm

I value your opinion bro, but it really is much more complex, and not really, than you make it seem in your post.
I was on team that created the fluid dynamic simulations which Johns Hopkins University has used for their research and published material.

Cloth masks work.

I think you imagine aerosol particulates as moving in some straight line through gaps in cloth material, but that's not how fluids move. Aerosol particulates zig and zag through the air and since cloth materials are fibrous and gaps uneven, they get caught up in the material pretty easily. N95 masks work better because the material is more tightly woven, but most cloth material isn't significantly worse.

If you want to conceptualize it easier, think of the cotton put over pots to steam rice. Cotton is fairly porous, but since fluids move unevenly, it still does a great job trapping the heated particulates (gaseous vapor) inside the pot. Of course some escapes, but most of it is retained within the pot and is prevented from escaping.
Very cool. What you said makes total sense. This is the stuff this thread needs more of.

To be honest, I visualized the straight through process, but when you explained it, I totally switched. Like I said, good stuff.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by ∞∞∞ »

I learned a lot myself lately too. I kinda knew how fluids moved from taking fluid dynamics, but never thought of it much from the perspective of masks until we did simulations. Researchers also had us model "electrostatic charge" inputs for different materials, which is something I didn't know about (although makes sense in retrospect). Anyways the short summary is that in addition to the way particulates move, they can also be captured by the electrical charges of cloth materials. I can't really speak on how they interpreted the outputs 'cause I don't know...we just modeled what smarter people wanted input...but it seemed like N95 masks were particularly great at this "electrostatic filtering."
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by SeattleGriz »

∞∞∞ wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:01 pm I learned a lot myself lately too. I kinda knew how fluids moved from taking fluid dynamics, never really thought of it much from the perspective of masks though until I started simulate it. Researchers also had us model "electrostatic charge" inputs for different materials, which is something I didn't know about (although makes sense in retrospect). Anyways the short summary is that in addition to the aerosol movements, small particulates can be captured by the natural electrical charges of cloth materials (think hair attracted to balloon, or dust to charged objects). I can't really speak on how they interpreted the outputs 'cause I don't know, but it seemed like N95 masks were particular great at this "electrostatic filtering."
Segue, but are you familiar with Van der Waals forces? Not quite electrostatic, but weak interactions between the positive and negatives of atoms or molecules. Totally cool stuff.

Van der Waals forces play a factor in protein folding. Super cool shit.

Like I said. Good to have your nerdy perspective!
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:18 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:15 pm

The Mayo Clinic study says a layered cloth mask is nearly as good as a N95 mask, I also distance from them. I wear a homemade masks that have 2 layers and a filter in the middle. I don't walk down the same isle in a store. I do my best to reduce the chances. Unfortunately, people still get sick using the protocol. Protocol reduces the chance, it doesn't prevent covid.

How much viral load does it take to cause someone to be infected by Covid? Can you be infected by 1 virus, 10, or 100,000.
Let's take this one step at a time. Do you feel any air come in around the mask. Like by your cheeks?

Essentially, is all the air you breath in, coming through the mask?
What's your point? Mask are worn to reduce the amount of virus released by an infected person, not to prevent a person from breathing in the virus. Distancing helps with that.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

SeattleGriz wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:14 pm
kalm wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:54 pm

Atlantic and WaPo have done some fine coverage. You may not find it agreeable to your schtick.

But there is a shit ton of other commentary on the topic from additional sources.

Guilianni has a law degree and Scott Atlas is a real doctor too...so don’t feel bad.

:lol:
Agreeable to my shtick? It's called understanding the basics, which means graduate level Biochemistry, Virology and Immunology. But please, keep telling me how I don't quite grasp the biased coverage from your shit sources and your uninformed opinions.

When I have to explain natural selection to you, it shows your lack of understanding.

Listen here, Sugar Tits. I have a rec mgmt degree from the Harvard of Palouse with course work in Games, Aquatics, and an intro in the VERY sciencey Therapeutic Rec! Do you know your way around the myelinated sheaths? Didn’t think so.

I’ve been mostly right about Covid and you’ve been mostly wrong. Better luck next time, kid!

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Winterborn »

AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:48 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:44 pm

Covid didn't hit here until mid March. As I've been saying, the CDC and Fauci are experts paid by political entities, and speak for that entity, not the best interest of the people. April 7, Mayo clinic was advising all staff to wear masks, April 14th, required all patients and visitors. There were 30 covid deaths in Minnesota on or before April 6.
Covid was here long before mid-March. :nod: :nod:
My brothers buddy and his family had it back in November of 2019 and they live in Minneapolis. They check the box for all the symptoms just were never diagnosed with it until later.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Winterborn »

Can't believe nobody hasn't mentioned that Texas has lifted their mask mandate (and there are now 16 states that do not have one).

Just waiting for the news to let me know how bad this is and how they are killing people with their irresponsibility. :coffee:
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:54 am Can't believe nobody hasn't mentioned that Texas has lifted their mask mandate (and there are now 16 states that do not have one).

Just waiting for the news to let me know how bad this is and how they are killing people with their irresponsibility. :coffee:
Well they ARE literally killing people by doing this. Hopefully, the numbers will probably be down though with warm weather, outdoor activity, and voluntary social distancing.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Winterborn »

kalm wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:04 am
Winterborn wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:54 am Can't believe nobody hasn't mentioned that Texas has lifted their mask mandate (and there are now 16 states that do not have one).

Just waiting for the news to let me know how bad this is and how they are killing people with their irresponsibility. :coffee:
Well they ARE literally killing people by doing this. Hopefully, the numbers will probably be down though with warm weather, outdoor activity, and voluntary social distancing.
Guess the only thing faster than USA Today is the Kalmunist Times out of WA. :shocking:
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

Winterborn wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:08 am
kalm wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:04 am

Well they ARE literally killing people by doing this. Hopefully, the numbers will probably be down though with warm weather, outdoor activity, and voluntary social distancing.
Guess the only thing faster than USA Today is the Kalmunist Times out of WA. :shocking:
Bitch, please! It’s called the HPR (Harvard of the Palouse Review).
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