Coronavirus COVID-19

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:31 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:42 am

I call shenanigans, without the protocol measures, it would have been a much higher death toll for Covid. You are comparing deaths by flu without protocols in place, to deaths from Covid with protocols in place, apples and oranges.
I understand that. Pick a number then, 600,000? 800,000? My point is, 45,000 lives weren’t enough....how do you suppose those who lost relatives and loved ones to the flu every year feel about that?
There were 45,000 saved because of the protocol this season. Expect masks to be a common item during flu season, and yes, people will avoid masks and still die from the flu.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

Winterborn wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:13 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:42 am

I call shenanigans, without the protocol measures, it would have been a much higher death toll for Covid
. You are comparing deaths by flu without protocols in place, to deaths from Covid with protocols in place, apples and oranges.

This is only a maybe right now. Everything is too politicized and with the shape the current data is in it is going to take years to figure this out accurately due to incompetence in how the data was collected and it being a political firestorm.

But that will not stop both sides from declaring a moral victory and trying to delegitimatize the other side.
Yes, politics caused people to stop following protocol. Liberals took the side of the medical profession and that drove conservatives to do the opposite of the liberals. Liberals were more talk than action with the protocol. For several years, my clinic has required people with flu symptoms to wear masks while in the clinic. There are proven studies on masks. My clinic doesn't ask people to wear the mask out of a political motivation. I don't consider Fauci to be part of the medical profession, he's a scientist paid by politicians.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:55 pm
AZGrizFan wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:31 pm

I understand that. Pick a number then, 600,000? 800,000? My point is, 45,000 lives weren’t enough....how do you suppose those who lost relatives and loved ones to the flu every year feel about that?
There were 45,000 saved because of the protocol this season. Expect masks to be a common item during flu season, and yes, people will avoid masks and still die from the flu.
I would think you could somewhat check on the states with the least COVID restrictions and compare their year over year rates.

Briefly looking at Oklahoma, it looks like it could simply be a light Influenza year... depending on what little restrictions they have.

Not saying social distancing and masks haven't helped, but if Oklahoma hasn't been following those guidelines, it should bear out in the numbers.

As a side note, why isn't simply covering your mouth when you sneeze not acceptable anymore and is replaced with masks?
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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Acting head of the PA Dept of Health. A doctor? No. A scientist? No. A 34 yr old attorney. What could go wrong? Up to 100k 2nd doses given as 1st doses, so do all those people need a do-over. Oops! She characterized it as a “significant mistake”. You don’t say? Not sure if her fault, of the HeShe that Biden nominated to be his Assistant Sec of Health, in order to check off multiple identity politics boxes. It certainly wasn’t because of the job “he” did in PA..
https://www.pennlive.com/news/2021/02/p ... stake.html
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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Well, this didn't age well. 1 yr ago today, 2/17:
Top disease official: Risk of coronavirus in USA is 'minuscule'; skip mask and wash hands

•Masks. The only people who need masks are those who are already infected to keep from exposing others. The masks sold at drugstores aren't even good enough to truly protect anyone, Fauci said.

"If you look at the masks that you buy in a drug store, the leakage around that doesn't really do much to protect you," he said. "People start saying, 'Should I start wearing a mask?' Now, in the United States, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to wear a mask."..

...Fauci doesn't want people to worry about coronavirus, the danger of which is "just minuscule." But he does want them to take precautions against the "influenza outbreak, which is having its second wave."

"We have more kids dying of flu this year at this time than in the last decade or more," he said. "At the same time people are worrying about going to a Chinese restaurant. The threat is (we have) a pretty bad influenza season, particularly dangerous for our children."

Fauci offered advice for people who want to protect against the "real and present danger" of seasonal flu, which also would protect against the hypothetical danger of coronavirus.

"Wash your hands as frequently as you can. Stay away from crowded places where people are coughing and sneezing. If in fact you are coughing and sneezing, cover your mouth," he says.

"You know, all the things that we say each year."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/hea ... 787209002/
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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Oof.

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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I’m betting Ron Kim commits suicide in the next two weeks.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:14 pm
Winterborn wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:13 pm


This is only a maybe right now. Everything is too politicized and with the shape the current data is in it is going to take years to figure this out accurately due to incompetence in how the data was collected and it being a political firestorm.

But that will not stop both sides from declaring a moral victory and trying to delegitimatize the other side.
Yes, politics caused people to stop following protocol. Liberals took the side of the medical profession and that drove conservatives to do the opposite of the liberals. Liberals were more talk than action with the protocol. For several years, my clinic has required people with flu symptoms to wear masks while in the clinic. There are proven studies on masks. My clinic doesn't ask people to wear the mask out of a political motivation. I don't consider Fauci to be part of the medical profession, he's a scientist paid by politicians.
Will quibble a bit on the "conservatives to do the opposite of the liberals" cause as it was probably 50/50 with just doing the opposite of liberals and the rest asking relevant questions on how the responses were chosen and the principles behind it.

For every study you can provide for it, I can find a pre-covid study that states that it causes no harm to wear them, but in the real world they are barely statistically effective due to peoples usage practices. We are not talking a brand new sterilized mask (N95 or other) that is changed every usage but ones that people continually wear. I am not arguing that they do not serve a psychological effect and initial medical effect, just that unless certain preconditions are met (proper handling, sterility, etc.) stating that a study for a new clean mask and applying that to what happens outside of lab is disingenuous. The few long term usage testing I have seen is that after less than 1 hour of the same mask one is down to a statistically insignificant filtering capability (less than a percent).

Now trying to explain the math behind the studies and how they were conducted to the general public would probably go over the heads of about 80+% of the population so I understand that one has to dumb it down it the simplest common denominator and that is the message we are currently seeing now. That masks need to be worn and that they filter all the time. It is part psychological and part science based and fits peoples understand level.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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Winterborn wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:02 am
Gil Dobie wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:14 pm

Yes, politics caused people to stop following protocol. Liberals took the side of the medical profession and that drove conservatives to do the opposite of the liberals. Liberals were more talk than action with the protocol. For several years, my clinic has required people with flu symptoms to wear masks while in the clinic. There are proven studies on masks. My clinic doesn't ask people to wear the mask out of a political motivation. I don't consider Fauci to be part of the medical profession, he's a scientist paid by politicians.
Will quibble a bit on the "conservatives to do the opposite of the liberals" cause as it was probably 50/50 with just doing the opposite of liberals and the rest asking relevant questions on how the responses were chosen and the principles behind it.

For every study you can provide for it, I can find a pre-covid study that states that it causes no harm to wear them, but in the real world they are barely statistically effective due to peoples usage practices. We are not talking a brand new sterilized mask (N95 or other) that is changed every usage but ones that people continually wear. I am not arguing that they do not serve a psychological effect and initial medical effect, just that unless certain preconditions are met (proper handling, sterility, etc.) stating that a study for a new clean mask and applying that to what happens outside of lab is disingenuous. The few long term usage testing I have seen is that after less than 1 hour of the same mask one is down to a statistically insignificant filtering capability (less than a percent).

Now trying to explain the math behind the studies and how they were conducted to the general public would probably go over the heads of about 80+% of the population so I understand that one has to dumb it down it the simplest common denominator and that is the message we are currently seeing now. That masks need to be worn and that they filter all the time. It is part psychological and part science based and fits peoples understand level.
Why do they lose efficacy after being worn an hour? I’d like to see the studies.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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kalm wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:07 am
Winterborn wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:02 am

Will quibble a bit on the "conservatives to do the opposite of the liberals" cause as it was probably 50/50 with just doing the opposite of liberals and the rest asking relevant questions on how the responses were chosen and the principles behind it.

For every study you can provide for it, I can find a pre-covid study that states that it causes no harm to wear them, but in the real world they are barely statistically effective due to peoples usage practices. We are not talking a brand new sterilized mask (N95 or other) that is changed every usage but ones that people continually wear. I am not arguing that they do not serve a psychological effect and initial medical effect, just that unless certain preconditions are met (proper handling, sterility, etc.) stating that a study for a new clean mask and applying that to what happens outside of lab is disingenuous. The few long term usage testing I have seen is that after less than 1 hour of the same mask one is down to a statistically insignificant filtering capability (less than a percent).

Now trying to explain the math behind the studies and how they were conducted to the general public would probably go over the heads of about 80+% of the population so I understand that one has to dumb it down it the simplest common denominator and that is the message we are currently seeing now. That masks need to be worn and that they filter all the time. It is part psychological and part science based and fits peoples understand level.
Why do they lose efficacy after being worn an hour? I’d like to see the studies.
Getting wet from moisture due to breathing. Wet/damp masks do not filter effectively, then they pull in more dust particles and reduce effectiveness even more. It is why you have to change your furnace filter every season (or you should) and face masks wear out even quicker. If my memory serves me correctly they had above 90% efficiency after 15 minutes and then dropped off sharply after that in kinda of a step curve.

I will see if I can dig them up again. It was 6 months ago that I read the studies.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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Winterborn wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:12 am
kalm wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:07 am

Why do they lose efficacy after being worn an hour? I’d like to see the studies.
Getting wet from moisture due to breathing. Wet/damp masks do not filter effectively, then they pull in more dust particles and reduce effectiveness even more. It is why you have to change your furnace filter every season (or you should) and face masks wear out even quicker. If my memory serves me correctly they had above 90% efficiency after 15 minutes and then dropped off sharply after that in kinda of a step curve.

I will see if I can dig them up again. It was 6 months ago that I read the studies.
Mask wearing was not for protecting the person with the mask, but to protect the people around them from the Covid virus load they exhale thru talking, sneezing, coughing etc. Combined with distancing, washing etc,
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Winterborn »

Gil Dobie wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:32 am
Winterborn wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:12 am

Getting wet from moisture due to breathing. Wet/damp masks do not filter effectively, then they pull in more dust particles and reduce effectiveness even more. It is why you have to change your furnace filter every season (or you should) and face masks wear out even quicker. If my memory serves me correctly they had above 90% efficiency after 15 minutes and then dropped off sharply after that in kinda of a step curve.

I will see if I can dig them up again. It was 6 months ago that I read the studies.
Mask wearing was not for protecting the person with the mask, but to protect the people around them from the Covid virus load they exhale thru talking, sneezing, coughing etc. Combined with distancing, washing etc,
I guess I am not understanding your point? A mask is a filter that works the same in both directions. Whether one inhales or exhales it doesn't make a difference from a filtration standpoint. The filter medium traps particles either going in or out, once that medium is compromised (example over saturation) particles can work themselves through the filter medium. This isn't as big of deal when we are discussing particles that are larger than the filter medium, aka dust, but when they are smaller, one is relying on the weave/filter barrier to slow down and then trap them. Get that wet and with every exhale (or inhale) you restrict the flow of air through (or out of) that filter medium and as that restrictions increases you wind up forcing more of the particles through the filter medium just due to the slight increase (or decrease on a inhale) in pressure and the fact that it is easier for particles to propagate through a damp filter medium.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

Winterborn wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:07 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:32 am

Mask wearing was not for protecting the person with the mask, but to protect the people around them from the Covid virus load they exhale thru talking, sneezing, coughing etc. Combined with distancing, washing etc,
I guess I am not understanding your point? A mask is a filter that works the same in both directions. Whether one inhales or exhales it doesn't make a difference from a filtration standpoint. The filter medium traps particles either going in or out, once that medium is compromised (example over saturation) particles can work themselves through the filter medium. This isn't as big of deal when we are discussing particles that are larger than the filter medium, aka dust, but when they are smaller, one is relying on the weave/filter barrier to slow down and then trap them. Get that wet and with every exhale (or inhale) you restrict the flow of air through (or out of) that filter medium and as that restrictions increases you wind up forcing more of the particles through the filter medium just due to the slight increase (or decrease on a inhale) in pressure and the fact that it is easier for particles to propagate through a damp filter medium.
Most studies I've seen, show how a particle the size if a virus is not stopped by a mask, and that's true IMO. The masks are worn to stop larger particulates that carry a large viral load, possibly thousands of individual virus. A medial recommended mask, dry or wet, is going to catch the particulate that size and stop it from landing on a surface or being airborne. I'm sure one is more effective that the other, but either way, they stop the larger particulates, therefore providing a lower chance of spreading covid. If you don't wear a mask, the large and small particluates and individual virus is spread where every a person breaths, talks, coughs or sneezes. A mask is like catching snow with a net with snowflake sized holes. Many individual flakes of snow are going to get thru the net, but the net will catch a snowball made of many snowflakes.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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Gil Dobie wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:42 pm
Winterborn wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:07 pm

I guess I am not understanding your point? A mask is a filter that works the same in both directions. Whether one inhales or exhales it doesn't make a difference from a filtration standpoint. The filter medium traps particles either going in or out, once that medium is compromised (example over saturation) particles can work themselves through the filter medium. This isn't as big of deal when we are discussing particles that are larger than the filter medium, aka dust, but when they are smaller, one is relying on the weave/filter barrier to slow down and then trap them. Get that wet and with every exhale (or inhale) you restrict the flow of air through (or out of) that filter medium and as that restrictions increases you wind up forcing more of the particles through the filter medium just due to the slight increase (or decrease on a inhale) in pressure and the fact that it is easier for particles to propagate through a damp filter medium.
Most studies I've seen, show how a particle the size if a virus is not stopped by a mask, and that's true IMO. The masks are worn to stop larger particulates that carry a large viral load, possibly thousands of individual virus. A medial recommended mask, dry or wet, is going to catch the particulate that size and stop it from landing on a surface or being airborne. I'm sure one is more effective that the other, but either way, they stop the larger particulates, therefore providing a lower chance of spreading covid. If you don't wear a mask, the large and small particluates and individual virus is spread where every a person breaths, talks, coughs or sneezes. A mask is like catching snow with a net with snowflake sized holes. Many individual flakes of snow are going to get thru the net, but the net will catch a snowball made of many snowflakes.
What's wrong with coughing into your elbow joint like we used to...before masks? Or walking away from others and sneezing into your elbow?

Cover your mouth is what was said around our house.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by AZGrizFan »

SeattleGriz wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:04 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:42 pm

Most studies I've seen, show how a particle the size if a virus is not stopped by a mask, and that's true IMO. The masks are worn to stop larger particulates that carry a large viral load, possibly thousands of individual virus. A medial recommended mask, dry or wet, is going to catch the particulate that size and stop it from landing on a surface or being airborne. I'm sure one is more effective that the other, but either way, they stop the larger particulates, therefore providing a lower chance of spreading covid. If you don't wear a mask, the large and small particluates and individual virus is spread where every a person breaths, talks, coughs or sneezes. A mask is like catching snow with a net with snowflake sized holes. Many individual flakes of snow are going to get thru the net, but the net will catch a snowball made of many snowflakes.
What's wrong with coughing into your elbow joint like we used to...before masks? Or walking away from others and sneezing into your elbow?

Cover your mouth is what was said around our house.
That’s not NEARLY good enough to properly virtue signal your compliance....
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

SeattleGriz wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:04 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:42 pm

Most studies I've seen, show how a particle the size if a virus is not stopped by a mask, and that's true IMO. The masks are worn to stop larger particulates that carry a large viral load, possibly thousands of individual virus. A medial recommended mask, dry or wet, is going to catch the particulate that size and stop it from landing on a surface or being airborne. I'm sure one is more effective that the other, but either way, they stop the larger particulates, therefore providing a lower chance of spreading covid. If you don't wear a mask, the large and small particluates and individual virus is spread where every a person breaths, talks, coughs or sneezes. A mask is like catching snow with a net with snowflake sized holes. Many individual flakes of snow are going to get thru the net, but the net will catch a snowball made of many snowflakes.
What's wrong with coughing into your elbow joint like we used to...before masks? Or walking away from others and sneezing into your elbow?

Cover your mouth is what was said around our house.
Why don't we go back to cod liver oil, like we used to?
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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Gil Dobie wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:26 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:04 pm

What's wrong with coughing into your elbow joint like we used to...before masks? Or walking away from others and sneezing into your elbow?

Cover your mouth is what was said around our house.
Why don't we go back to cod liver oil, like we used to?
That's a great idea. Did you see the recent study on how being low on vitamin D really puts you at risk with COVID?
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

SeattleGriz wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:29 pm
Gil Dobie wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:26 pm

Why don't we go back to cod liver oil, like we used to?
That's a great idea. Did you see the recent study on how being low on vitamin D really puts you at risk with COVID?
Rather keep taking my vitamin D pills.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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Gil Dobie wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:45 pm
SeattleGriz wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:29 pm

That's a great idea. Did you see the recent study on how being low on vitamin D really puts you at risk with COVID?
Rather keep taking my vitamin D pills.
I don't blame you. Fish oil burps are nasty.

We have drops we have been putting in our kids dinner drinks so they get their 1000 a day.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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Now that the hysteria and "cases" of COVID are starting to drop, as to what appears to be approaching herd immunity, I'll repost this common sense article that explained pretty much all you needed to know about COVID, but probably didn't.

Gotta say I was unsure of what was what at first due to all the disinformation that was being pushed, but when I read this article it all made sense, because it's what was known for ages, but ignored. I posted this back in July.




WSJ article discussing the natural immunity driving the drop in cases. It's all about the T Cells.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/well-have- ... malertNEWS
Antibody studies almost certainly underestimate natural immunity. Antibody testing doesn’t capture antigen-specific T-cells, which develop “memory” once they are activated by the virus. Survivors of the 1918 Spanish flu were found in 2008—90 years later—to have memory cells still able to produce neutralizing antibodies.
Don't be fooled by this quote. It's not saying the older you get, the more impervious you should be. That's obviously not true, as we can see that the elderly struggle with COVID due to age related decline on this front, but what it is saying is that T cell memory lasts a long time and almost everyone should have had some natural immunity to COVID and that is what is helping to drive the drop in cases. You add natural immunity in with those being vaccinated and COVID doesn't have many left to find.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:24 am Now that the hysteria and "cases" of COVID are starting to drop, as to what appears to be approaching herd immunity, I'll repost this common sense article that explained pretty much all you needed to know about COVID, but probably didn't.

Gotta say I was unsure of what was what at first due to all the disinformation that was being pushed, but when I read this article it all made sense, because it's what was known for ages, but ignored. I posted this back in July.




WSJ article discussing the natural immunity driving the drop in cases. It's all about the T Cells.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/well-have- ... malertNEWS
Antibody studies almost certainly underestimate natural immunity. Antibody testing doesn’t capture antigen-specific T-cells, which develop “memory” once they are activated by the virus. Survivors of the 1918 Spanish flu were found in 2008—90 years later—to have memory cells still able to produce neutralizing antibodies.
Don't be fooled by this quote. It's not saying the older you get, the more impervious you should be. That's obviously not true, as we can see that the elderly struggle with COVID due to age related decline on this front, but what it is saying is that T cell memory lasts a long time and almost everyone should have had some natural immunity to COVID and that is what is helping to drive the drop in cases. You add natural immunity in with those being vaccinated and COVID doesn't have many left to find.
UK variant is still at low numbers. But doubled in case counts last week in Minnesota. Spreads easier, and is more severe.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:24 am Now that the hysteria and "cases" of COVID are starting to drop, as to what appears to be approaching herd immunity, I'll repost this common sense article that explained pretty much all you needed to know about COVID, but probably didn't.

Gotta say I was unsure of what was what at first due to all the disinformation that was being pushed, but when I read this article it all made sense, because it's what was known for ages, but ignored. I posted this back in July.




WSJ article discussing the natural immunity driving the drop in cases. It's all about the T Cells.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/well-have- ... malertNEWS
Antibody studies almost certainly underestimate natural immunity. Antibody testing doesn’t capture antigen-specific T-cells, which develop “memory” once they are activated by the virus. Survivors of the 1918 Spanish flu were found in 2008—90 years later—to have memory cells still able to produce neutralizing antibodies.
Don't be fooled by this quote. It's not saying the older you get, the more impervious you should be. That's obviously not true, as we can see that the elderly struggle with COVID due to age related decline on this front, but what it is saying is that T cell memory lasts a long time and almost everyone should have had some natural immunity to COVID and that is what is helping to drive the drop in cases. You add natural immunity in with those being vaccinated and COVID doesn't have many left to find.
“Some experts quietly agree with me but...” is a huge red flag in that political last paragraph. And be skeptical of anyone who emphatically claims the truth including date predictions at this point.

The drop is real and I recall several experts predicting peak surge not until about now. That’s great news but there are several explanations for it:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... st/618041/

I hope this dude is right but he’s not very convincing.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by UNI88 »

Gil Dobie wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:38 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:24 am Now that the hysteria and "cases" of COVID are starting to drop, as to what appears to be approaching herd immunity, I'll repost this common sense article that explained pretty much all you needed to know about COVID, but probably didn't.

Gotta say I was unsure of what was what at first due to all the disinformation that was being pushed, but when I read this article it all made sense, because it's what was known for ages, but ignored. I posted this back in July.



WSJ article discussing the natural immunity driving the drop in cases. It's all about the T Cells.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/well-have- ... malertNEWS

Don't be fooled by this quote. It's not saying the older you get, the more impervious you should be. That's obviously not true, as we can see that the elderly struggle with COVID due to age related decline on this front, but what it is saying is that T cell memory lasts a long time and almost everyone should have had some natural immunity to COVID and that is what is helping to drive the drop in cases. You add natural immunity in with those being vaccinated and COVID doesn't have many left to find.
UK variant is still at low numbers. But doubled in case counts last week in Minnesota. Spreads easier, and is more severe.
That's rascist!
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by SeattleGriz »

kalm wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:24 am
SeattleGriz wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:24 am Now that the hysteria and "cases" of COVID are starting to drop, as to what appears to be approaching herd immunity, I'll repost this common sense article that explained pretty much all you needed to know about COVID, but probably didn't.

Gotta say I was unsure of what was what at first due to all the disinformation that was being pushed, but when I read this article it all made sense, because it's what was known for ages, but ignored. I posted this back in July.




WSJ article discussing the natural immunity driving the drop in cases. It's all about the T Cells.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/well-have- ... malertNEWS



Don't be fooled by this quote. It's not saying the older you get, the more impervious you should be. That's obviously not true, as we can see that the elderly struggle with COVID due to age related decline on this front, but what it is saying is that T cell memory lasts a long time and almost everyone should have had some natural immunity to COVID and that is what is helping to drive the drop in cases. You add natural immunity in with those being vaccinated and COVID doesn't have many left to find.
“Some experts quietly agree with me but...” is a huge red flag in that political last paragraph. And be skeptical of anyone who emphatically claims the truth including date predictions at this point.

The drop is real and I recall several experts predicting peak surge not until about now. That’s great news but there are several explanations for it:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... st/618041/

I hope this dude is right but he’s not very convincing.
If he's not convincing, it's because he is talking about a subject many are not discussing. The Atlantic author talks about the "cousin" version, seroprevalence - antibodies that are in your system due to a recent infection. The other author is talking about T cells, which is your body's "history" of all the cold viruses and the response it mounted to beat them.

Outside of that, they are talking similar aspects.

So in my first article, you have a world renowned Immunologist talking about us having some defense of COVID due to T Cells, during a period where the media was pushing absolutely no immunity, which was patent garbage.

In the second article, you have the author, Dr. Marty Makary, who is a health policy expert and surgeon at Johns Hopkins University, stating he knows that a T Cell mediated response can't be measured in the population as a whole, but suspects that T Cells in addition to vaccinations, are why we are seeing a decline.

The Atlantic is not in opposition to either, it just attributes it to other valid factors.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Winterborn »

Gil Dobie wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:42 pm
Winterborn wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:07 pm

I guess I am not understanding your point? A mask is a filter that works the same in both directions. Whether one inhales or exhales it doesn't make a difference from a filtration standpoint. The filter medium traps particles either going in or out, once that medium is compromised (example over saturation) particles can work themselves through the filter medium. This isn't as big of deal when we are discussing particles that are larger than the filter medium, aka dust, but when they are smaller, one is relying on the weave/filter barrier to slow down and then trap them. Get that wet and with every exhale (or inhale) you restrict the flow of air through (or out of) that filter medium and as that restrictions increases you wind up forcing more of the particles through the filter medium just due to the slight increase (or decrease on a inhale) in pressure and the fact that it is easier for particles to propagate through a damp filter medium.
Most studies I've seen, show how a particle the size if a virus is not stopped by a mask, and that's true IMO. The masks are worn to stop larger particulates that carry a large viral load, possibly thousands of individual virus. A medial recommended mask, dry or wet, is going to catch the particulate that size and stop it from landing on a surface or being airborne. I'm sure one is more effective that the other, but either way, they stop the larger particulates, therefore providing a lower chance of spreading covid. If you don't wear a mask, the large and small particluates and individual virus is spread where every a person breaths, talks, coughs or sneezes. A mask is like catching snow with a net with snowflake sized holes. Many individual flakes of snow are going to get thru the net, but the net will catch a snowball made of many snowflakes.
I don't disagree and they are great at catching loogie's (a bit facetious I know ;) ). But one of the questions to ask is at what point is ones mask so saturated with virus particles that one is just as much a spreader as not wearing a mask? Is 30 minutes? An hour? 2 hours? 3 hours? x hours?

Length of proximity also plays into it I know but when your mask is wet what does it do the distance? The only places I have seen people are staying 6 feet apart is when they are forced to (or shamed into it). Between myself and 2 others in out department we have probably visited 35 of the 50 states in the last 6 months, and the above is true no matter what state/city one is in. Some are much better than others but once a person is outside of the "enforcement zone" old habits resurface no matter where one is at. I say this because a sterile lab result is not indicative to how the world outside of the lab works. For a proper experiment to be conducted one must try to mimic the conditions you are studying and outside of a couple of studies, I haven't seen anybody ask these questions. Both sides have an axe to grind and the studies show it.

Also stating that a mask saves x lives or not wearing a mask cost y lives is hypocritical at best, as the full summation of the data has not been compiled yet and nor will it be done in an impartial matter until long after politicians and the general public have forgotten the whole affair. I am in no way trying to change your beliefs (or anybody's for that matter) but just get people to ask questions and think about things they are told a bit before accepting them.
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