Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

[GannonFan]

Well, we've been waiting just as long, if not longer, for proof of collusion between Trump and the Russians to rig the election. I doubt we're going to get that this time, though.

I'd settle for obstruction or coordination between the Trump Campaign and a foreign power. Trump, even if he claims he had no involvement, is ultimately responsible what HIS campaign has done to ensure HIS victory.

Obstruction is going to be hard to prove and I assume Mueller knows that. Firing Comey was always something at Trump's discretion, and if he was really trying to obstruct the Mueller probe by doing so, then he's one of the worst obstructors of all time as the probe continued unabated even to this day. As for Trump being ultimately responsible, again, that's more the case in terms of public perception than in actual law. If they can't tie him or any of this close circle (i.e. family) to actual coordination then he's not guilty of what someone further away did. If someone in his campaign tore down campaign posters of Hillary, Trump isn't going to be criminally liable.

[Skjellyfetti]

Firing Comey was always something at Trump's discretion, and if he was really trying to obstruct the Mueller probe by doing so, then he's one of the worst obstructors of all time as the probe continued unabated even to this day.

We've been through this before... but, you don't have to be successful in shutting down an investigation for it to be obstruction.

Manafort pleaded guilty for conspiring with Kilimnik to obstruct Mueller's investigation. It doesn't mean they caused the investigation to end or shut it down or were successful. Far from it.

You just have to "endeavor" to "influence, obstruct, or impede" it

[CID1990]

Firing Comey was always something at Trump's discretion, and if he was really trying to obstruct the Mueller probe by doing so, then he's one of the worst obstructors of all time as the probe continued unabated even to this day.

We've been through this before... but, you don't have to be successful in shutting down an investigation for it to be obstruction.

Manafort pleaded guilty for conspiring with Kilimnik to obstruct Mueller's investigation. It doesn't mean they caused the investigation to end or shut it down or were successful. Far from it.

You just have to "endeavor" to "influence, obstruct, or impede" it

Hope springs eternal


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[GannonFan]

Firing Comey was always something at Trump's discretion, and if he was really trying to obstruct the Mueller probe by doing so, then he's one of the worst obstructors of all time as the probe continued unabated even to this day.

We've been through this before... but, you don't have to be successful in shutting down an investigation for it to be obstruction.

Manafort pleaded guilty for conspiring with Kilimnik to obstruct Mueller's investigation. It doesn't mean they caused the investigation to end or shut it down or were successful. Far from it.

You just have to "endeavor" to "influence, obstruct, or impede" it

Yes, we've been through this before, and nothing has changed. Comparing Manafort to Trump in this case is apples and oranges. Allegedly, Manafort contacted witnesses who were going to be coming up to give testimony in his case, and potentially wanted them to lie. That's definitely obstruction as it's witness tampering and it's always not allowed.

The attempt to get Trump with obstruction is saying that his firing of Comey amounted to obstruction. Trump, like any President, is allowed to fire the FBI guy - he works at the pleasure of the President. There's nothing illegal about that. And it's not like Comey wasn't already on thin ice before this - heck, Dems had been calling for his ouster almost up to the point that Trump fired him, and then all of sudden the removal of Comey was rephrased to be a catastrophe. And then couple that with that fact that after Comey was fired the investigation that reportedly Trump was trying to stop with the firing has gone on unabated and unhindered for almost 2 more years just blows up any way to call that obstruction. He fired a guy who was already being pressured from multiple fronts to be removed, and it didn't impact the investigation at all. You may want to reach and call that obstruction, but it's never going to amount to that unless they have Trump on tape or in writing saying "I'm firing Comey in order to put a stop to the Mueller probe". And if they had that then the investigation would've ended a long time ago and Pence would be the commander in chief.

[Skjellyfetti]

It's also not like Manafort because he's the sitting President and DoJ thinks it best to not indict a sitting President.

I wasn't saying one way or another whether he obstructed justice. I'm saying the fact that the investigation continued does not mean it wasn't obstruction.

You may want to reach and call that obstruction, but it's never going to amount to that unless they have Trump on tape or in writing saying "I'm firing Comey in order to put a stop to the Mueller probe". And if they had that then the investigation would've ended a long time ago and Pence would be the commander in chief.

Mueller also has Trump's first memo justifying the firing of Comey that WH lawyers would not let him use. So, he had Rosenstein's justify it by his mistreatment of Hillary during the campaign. But, we all know that wasn't his motivation to fire him. And he said so himself.

And, "I'm firing Comey to stop the Mueller probe" makes no sense. There was no Mueller probe when Comey was fired. You mean "Russia probe." In Trumpspeak: "Russia thing"

I think what you mean is something like:

He made-- he made a recommendation, he's highly
respected, very good guy, very smart guy, uh the Democrats like him, the
Republicans like him, uh he made a recommendation but regardless of
recommendation I was going to fire Comey knowing, there was no good time
to do it. And in fact when I decided to just do it, I said to myself, I said you
know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made up story

Trump's take home test was full of questions related to obstruction.

I don't know if he obstructed - but, he better hope his defense if better than yours. "The investigation continued" isn't good enough.

[GannonFan]

I don't know if he obstructed - but, he better hope his defense if better than yours. "The investigation continued" isn't good enough.

In the political calculus it will be. He's not going to be impeached for firing Comey, and no one's going to bring a criminal case because of it as well. And it is because it had zero bearing on the Russian investigation. It's way too far away from a slam dunk to ever bring it to trial and risk not guilty - a prosecutor wouldn't touch it other than to make a name for himself and Mueller isn't that kind of prosecutor.

[Skjellyfetti]

I don't disagree withany of that.

It could be part of impeachment proceedings, but no way does the Senate convict.

And, no way does it come to trial, because I don't see Mueller and Barr bucking DoJ policy... however dumb it is.

There are other avenues, though. And, it's impossible to know what Mueller can or will pursue. Jaworksi's Watergate Roadmap that was finally released to the public this fall essentially made a case against Nixon without indicting him and before impeachment. It's a possibility. We'll see what Mueller does.

[Skjellyfetti]

BREAKING: Mueller report to be delivered as early as the week after next. Or maybe not. Who knows?

[SDHornet]

Still no Trump Russia collusion?


BTW, jellybelly forgot to post an article on the Senate Intel Committee not finding any Trump Russia collusion.

"Based on the evidence to date," Burr said, the committee could not definitively say there was collusion between Trump and the Russians.

"If we write a report based upon the facts that we have, then we don't have anything that would suggest there was collusion by the Trump campaign and Russia," Burr told CBS.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/ ... on-1156624

[93henfan]

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/ ... on-1156624

...the senator said some questions raised over the investigation could occupy the committee "for the next decade," and that portions of the final report could be so classified that they are never revealed to the public. Burr said his committee is "close to pushing out the door" a report on the Obama administration's response to Russian election interference, a release that the chairman said could come within a "matter of weeks."

You mean to tell me a Republican-led committee would heavily classify its findings on Trump to occupy the committee "for the next decade" and the findings may never be revealed to the public, yet they were able to wrap up their report on Obama mosh kosh and should have that one out in a "matter of weeks."

Seems legit.

Shocked, I tell ya. No partisan chicanery going on there. Nosiree,bob.

[Skjellyfetti]

I do expect the Manafort sentencing memo due Friday to be a pretty extensive "report."

800 pages...

Mueller has been writing his report all along through his court filings.

[Skjellyfetti]

Cohen has been subpoenaed to testify in mid-February.

What's he going to say though? He can't say anything to do with the Mueller probe or jeopardize that so what does he have to say?

[SDHornet]

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/ ... on-1156624

...the senator said some questions raised over the investigation could occupy the committee "for the next decade," and that portions of the final report could be so classified that they are never revealed to the public. Burr said his committee is "close to pushing out the door" a report on the Obama administration's response to Russian election interference, a release that the chairman said could come within a "matter of weeks."

You mean to tell me a Republican-led committee would heavily classify its findings on Trump to occupy the committee "for the next decade" and the findings may never be revealed to the public, yet they were able to wrap up their report on Obama mosh kosh and should have that one out in a "matter of weeks."

Seems legit.

Shocked, I tell ya. No partisan chicanery going on there. Nosiree,bob.

So did the Committee find Trump Russia collusion or not?

[houndawg]

You mean to tell me a Republican-led committee would heavily classify its findings on Trump to occupy the committee "for the next decade" and the findings may never be revealed to the public, yet they were able to wrap up their report on Obama mosh kosh and should have that one out in a "matter of weeks."

Seems legit.

Shocked, I tell ya. No partisan chicanery going on there. Nosiree,bob.

So did the Committee find Trump Russia collusion or not?

Who cares?

[houndawg]

Still turning a profit thanks to Manafort seizures.

And if this was going on against a donk president you’d be rioting in the streets.

If we had a donk President we wouldn't be looking at treason.

[UNI88]

And if this was going on against a donk president you’d be rioting in the streets.

If we had a donk President we wouldn't be looking at treason.

IMO the last Donk candidate to win the popular vote engaged in treasonous behavior over the course of their career.

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[SeattleGriz]

They postponed his report until AFTER Cohen testimony. That gives Schiff the chance to say there are still problems.

You could see this alignment weeks ago with the delays to Cohen's testimony.

[CAA Flagship]

Why is there a question whether the Investigation Report be made public?
Hell yeah it should be made public. We have had to endure 154 CS.com pages of speculation.

If not made public, there will be cherry picked leaks to the media for months, and I'll bet context will be damned.

Make it public. The public paid for it. And the public will need to determine who suffers the consequences of the findings.

[∞∞∞]

I guess no one give's a crap about the Cohen hearing?

[∞∞∞]

Cohen says everyone in the campaign, including Trump, was lying because "we never expected to win."

[CID1990]

Cohen says everyone in the campaign, including Trump, was lying because "we never expected to win."

What were you saying about Cohen last year?

[∞∞∞]

Cohen: Trump never expected to win primary or general election. The campaign was always a marketing opportunity, that Trump wanted it to be "the greatest infomercial ever in US history."

Confirms Trump is "Individual #1" and he knew about Stone/Assange plan with Wikileaks to steal DNC emails.

[∞∞∞]

Cohen says everyone in the campaign, including Trump, was lying because "we never expected to win."

What were you saying about Cohen last year?

Please tell me...

[∞∞∞]

Cohen says Trump knew about the Russia meeting in Trump Tower. Donny Jr. too...

[CID1990]

Cohen says Trump knew about the Russia meeting in Trump Tower. Donny Jr. too...

Wait....

I’m having trouble keeping score

Sleazy Trump attorney says what?