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—- This was written by former MLB pitcher Black Jack McDowell after watching Clayton Kershaw get pulled from the opportunity to pitch the 24th Perfect game in Major League history. His words are why the MLB game has lost so much of it’s enjoyment to view. predetermining because of analytics has ruined the game. This came about when almost all “Front Ofice” positions on Major League teams became manned by people that are and were never Baseball Players. —— 3 Up - 3 down - 3 times and Lets Play Ball is all the control the game needs. Analytics has ruined this great game!!Two pitchers in the HISTORY OF BASEBALL have been pulled after 7 innings of perfect baseball. Roberts was the manager both times.Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:53 am SORRY TO KERSHAW
if you want to know REAL TRUTH about pitching and not BS predetermining metric pitch counting here it is. Anyone who has actually pitched knows this truth. When you throw a quality game where you are repeating your mechanics very well you can throw 150 or more pitches and feel great the next day. But sometimes if the mound is a little different or you’re off balance etc. you could throw 20 pitches and be sore and stiff the next day. It’s NOT about pitch counts so like everything else in this game now PREDETERMINING STUFF IS BS—- This was written by former MLB pitcher Black Jack McDowell after watching Clayton Kershaw get pulled from the opportunity to pitch the 24th Perfect game in Major League history. His words are why the MLB game has lost so much of it’s enjoyment to view. predetermining because of analytics has ruined the game. This came about when almost all “Front Ofice” positions on Major League teams became manned by people that are and were never Baseball Players. —— 3 Up - 3 down - 3 times and Lets Play Ball is all the control the game needs. Analytics has ruined this great game!!
That might be a little strong, but he's no history major, for sure.AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:06 amTwo pitchers in the HISTORY OF BASEBALL have been pulled after 7 innings of perfect baseball. Roberts was the manager both times.Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:53 am SORRY TO KERSHAW
if you want to know REAL TRUTH about pitching and not BS predetermining metric pitch counting here it is. Anyone who has actually pitched knows this truth. When you throw a quality game where you are repeating your mechanics very well you can throw 150 or more pitches and feel great the next day. But sometimes if the mound is a little different or you’re off balance etc. you could throw 20 pitches and be sore and stiff the next day. It’s NOT about pitch counts so like everything else in this game now PREDETERMINING STUFF IS BS
He’s a fucking douche.
The problem is, analytics, for lack of a better word, works. People like to pooh pooh it but analytics was superior in terms of generating wins and losses compared to pulling in guys who used to play and having them pick the players. If it didn't work the vast majority of the league wouldn't have switched over to it. I agree, though, that it's led to detrimental things in the game itself - pulling pitchers early, games pitched mostly by bullpens, the shift, reliance on home runs, elimination of stolen bases, etc. I think being a slave to analytics (and you can say pulling Kershaw in this instance is that) is the problem. Should be using analytics but every now and then letting a guy throw more innings or letting a guy steal a base.Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:53 am SORRY TO KERSHAW
if you want to know REAL TRUTH about pitching and not BS predetermining metric pitch counting here it is. Anyone who has actually pitched knows this truth. When you throw a quality game where you are repeating your mechanics very well you can throw 150 or more pitches and feel great the next day. But sometimes if the mound is a little different or you’re off balance etc. you could throw 20 pitches and be sore and stiff the next day. It’s NOT about pitch counts so like everything else in this game now PREDETERMINING STUFF IS BS
Analytics wins games, does it gain fans? I would say no, because baseball is now the #3 sport in America.GannonFan wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:53 amThe problem is, analytics, for lack of a better word, works. People like to pooh pooh it but analytics was superior in terms of generating wins and losses compared to pulling in guys who used to play and having them pick the players. If it didn't work the vast majority of the league wouldn't have switched over to it. I agree, though, that it's led to detrimental things in the game itself - pulling pitchers early, games pitched mostly by bullpens, the shift, reliance on home runs, elimination of stolen bases, etc. I think being a slave to analytics (and you can say pulling Kershaw in this instance is that) is the problem. Should be using analytics but every now and then letting a guy throw more innings or letting a guy steal a base.Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:53 am SORRY TO KERSHAW
if you want to know REAL TRUTH about pitching and not BS predetermining metric pitch counting here it is. Anyone who has actually pitched knows this truth. When you throw a quality game where you are repeating your mechanics very well you can throw 150 or more pitches and feel great the next day. But sometimes if the mound is a little different or you’re off balance etc. you could throw 20 pitches and be sore and stiff the next day. It’s NOT about pitch counts so like everything else in this game now PREDETERMINING STUFF IS BS
Exactly. I’ve basically stopped watching and I was about as rabid a baseball fan as you could have found 10 years ago.Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:36 pmAnalytics wins games, does it gain fans? I would say no, because baseball is now the #3 sport in America.GannonFan wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:53 am
The problem is, analytics, for lack of a better word, works. People like to pooh pooh it but analytics was superior in terms of generating wins and losses compared to pulling in guys who used to play and having them pick the players. If it didn't work the vast majority of the league wouldn't have switched over to it. I agree, though, that it's led to detrimental things in the game itself - pulling pitchers early, games pitched mostly by bullpens, the shift, reliance on home runs, elimination of stolen bases, etc. I think being a slave to analytics (and you can say pulling Kershaw in this instance is that) is the problem. Should be using analytics but every now and then letting a guy throw more innings or letting a guy steal a base.
Bologna. Analytics does NOT work, ESPECIALLY when it comes to pitching. And you yourself bring up the major reason it doesn't: games blown by overworked bullpens. There's a reason pitchers back in the day never came out: they didn't have to. Not only were they better (on average) than modern pitchers (we have a lot of clunkers out there today simply to fill roster spots on way too many teams), the advent of air travel has eliminated the gap between series that allowed pitchers to rest. Dump about half the teams and re-institute train travel, and we can get pitchers finishing what they start...if their stupid agents don't stick their nose into what's none of their business, anyway. (And, yes, I would even eliminate the Arizona Diamondbacks, who own the contract of my favorite active player, Dan Straily.)GannonFan wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:53 amThe problem is, analytics, for lack of a better word, works. People like to pooh pooh it but analytics was superior in terms of generating wins and losses compared to pulling in guys who used to play and having them pick the players. If it didn't work the vast majority of the league wouldn't have switched over to it. I agree, though, that it's led to detrimental things in the game itself - pulling pitchers early, games pitched mostly by bullpens, the shift, reliance on home runs, elimination of stolen bases, etc. I think being a slave to analytics (and you can say pulling Kershaw in this instance is that) is the problem. Should be using analytics but every now and then letting a guy throw more innings or letting a guy steal a base.Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:53 am SORRY TO KERSHAW
if you want to know REAL TRUTH about pitching and not BS predetermining metric pitch counting here it is. Anyone who has actually pitched knows this truth. When you throw a quality game where you are repeating your mechanics very well you can throw 150 or more pitches and feel great the next day. But sometimes if the mound is a little different or you’re off balance etc. you could throw 20 pitches and be sore and stiff the next day. It’s NOT about pitch counts so like everything else in this game now PREDETERMINING STUFF IS BS
Maybe we should segregate baseball again too? Go back to “the good ol’ days”?SuperHornet wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:16 pmBologna. Analytics does NOT work, ESPECIALLY when it comes to pitching. And you yourself bring up the major reason it doesn't: games blown by overworked bullpens. There's a reason pitchers back in the day never came out: they didn't have to. Not only were they better (on average) than modern pitchers (we have a lot of clunkers out there today simply to fill roster spots on way too many teams), the advent of air travel has eliminated the gap between series that allowed pitchers to rest. Dump about half the teams and re-institute train travel, and we can get pitchers finishing what they start...if their stupid agents don't stick their nose into what's none of their business, anyway. (And, yes, I would even eliminate the Arizona Diamondbacks, who own the contract of my favorite active player, Dan Straily.)GannonFan wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:53 am
The problem is, analytics, for lack of a better word, works. People like to pooh pooh it but analytics was superior in terms of generating wins and losses compared to pulling in guys who used to play and having them pick the players. If it didn't work the vast majority of the league wouldn't have switched over to it. I agree, though, that it's led to detrimental things in the game itself - pulling pitchers early, games pitched mostly by bullpens, the shift, reliance on home runs, elimination of stolen bases, etc. I think being a slave to analytics (and you can say pulling Kershaw in this instance is that) is the problem. Should be using analytics but every now and then letting a guy throw more innings or letting a guy steal a base.
Sweet Jesus….Why have humans on the field? Just use computer generated games and move pawns around the field.JoltinJoe wrote: ↑Sun Apr 17, 2022 6:51 am Analytics do work. That's the problem. Outcomes are so easily predictable.
The other night, I went to the Yankee game against the Blue Jays.
When Joey Gallo came to bat, the Blue Jays played with four OFs; a shortfielder in short RF; a IFer playing directly behind second base on the grass; and another IFer playing on the edge of the grass right behind where the second baseman usually plays, shaded a bit toward first base.
The 1B man played right on the line (to take away the double).
The four OFers were lined up with the left fielder in left center; the center fielder shaded a bit to right center; an IFer moved to play in the right-center power gap; and the RFer was playing deep and almost in the right field corner.
So there was ONE guy on the left side of the field -- that being the LF who played a few feet short of the warning track in left center.
You could see that Gallo actually tried to go the opposite way -- to left. And he succeeded. He hit the ball directly toward the LFer playing in left-center, just short of the warning track.
The LFer needed to take no more than two steps to record the out.
So the Blue Jays knew precisely where the ball was going to go, EVEN if Gallo tried to go the opposite way.
With a normal defensive formation, that ball was an easy double. But the analytics told the Blue Jays how to align.
Of course they work. People don't play a shift on a whim, they play it because the data is clear that a batter will statistically hit it to certain spots and lo and behold, they do. It works with pitching too - batting averages are down because pitchers are pretty effective, especially when you don't have a starter having to go through a lineup 4 or 5 times. Now batters see him one or two times and then you bring in relievers. It ain't pretty, but it works.SuperHornet wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:16 pmBologna. Analytics does NOT work, ESPECIALLY when it comes to pitching. And you yourself bring up the major reason it doesn't: games blown by overworked bullpens. There's a reason pitchers back in the day never came out: they didn't have to. Not only were they better (on average) than modern pitchers (we have a lot of clunkers out there today simply to fill roster spots on way too many teams), the advent of air travel has eliminated the gap between series that allowed pitchers to rest. Dump about half the teams and re-institute train travel, and we can get pitchers finishing what they start...if their stupid agents don't stick their nose into what's none of their business, anyway. (And, yes, I would even eliminate the Arizona Diamondbacks, who own the contract of my favorite active player, Dan Straily.)GannonFan wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:53 am
The problem is, analytics, for lack of a better word, works. People like to pooh pooh it but analytics was superior in terms of generating wins and losses compared to pulling in guys who used to play and having them pick the players. If it didn't work the vast majority of the league wouldn't have switched over to it. I agree, though, that it's led to detrimental things in the game itself - pulling pitchers early, games pitched mostly by bullpens, the shift, reliance on home runs, elimination of stolen bases, etc. I think being a slave to analytics (and you can say pulling Kershaw in this instance is that) is the problem. Should be using analytics but every now and then letting a guy throw more innings or letting a guy steal a base.
Batting averages down has more to do with the home run swing, via analytics. Home runs and strikeouts are the result. Joe Sewell, who struck out 114 times total in 14 years, probably rolling in his grave.GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:30 amOf course they work. People don't play a shift on a whim, they play it because the data is clear that a batter will statistically hit it to certain spots and lo and behold, they do. It works with pitching too - batting averages are down because pitchers are pretty effective, especially when you don't have a starter having to go through a lineup 4 or 5 times. Now batters see him one or two times and then you bring in relievers. It ain't pretty, but it works.SuperHornet wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:16 pm
Bologna. Analytics does NOT work, ESPECIALLY when it comes to pitching. And you yourself bring up the major reason it doesn't: games blown by overworked bullpens. There's a reason pitchers back in the day never came out: they didn't have to. Not only were they better (on average) than modern pitchers (we have a lot of clunkers out there today simply to fill roster spots on way too many teams), the advent of air travel has eliminated the gap between series that allowed pitchers to rest. Dump about half the teams and re-institute train travel, and we can get pitchers finishing what they start...if their stupid agents don't stick their nose into what's none of their business, anyway. (And, yes, I would even eliminate the Arizona Diamondbacks, who own the contract of my favorite active player, Dan Straily.)
Agree. The reasoning is that it is easier to hit a home run than string together 3 hits.Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:13 amBatting averages down has more to do with the home run swing, via analytics. Home runs and strikeouts are the result. Joe Sewell, who struck out 114 times total in 14 years, probably rolling in his grave.GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:30 am
Of course they work. People don't play a shift on a whim, they play it because the data is clear that a batter will statistically hit it to certain spots and lo and behold, they do. It works with pitching too - batting averages are down because pitchers are pretty effective, especially when you don't have a starter having to go through a lineup 4 or 5 times. Now batters see him one or two times and then you bring in relievers. It ain't pretty, but it works.
This is the worst Dbacks team I have ever witnessed
So accurate it hurtstribe_pride wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:20 pm Not really true for the Mets this season but for the Diamondbacks apparently
