Astros Accused of Cheating...

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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by JoltinJoe »

SDHornet wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:11 am
JoltinJoe wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:09 am

Now that's funny!! :rofl:
Thanks for playing.

Brosius's numbers in 1998 were about the same as the numbers he put up for Oakland in 1996. Actually, 1996 was his best season. And, candidly, when it comes to offense, the use of the word "best" in Brosius's case is very relative. 1998 was a pretty ordinary so-called "best" season: OPS+ 121. You can do that for a whole career, and you'd get voted off the ballot for the Hall after your first try (unless you are a catcher).

I should actually thank you for posting this. Clearly, you are trying to help me in a clever, round-about way. Thank for your tacit support. :rofl:
He had a big production dip in 97, and realized he need a "little extra" to get his numbers back up. Thanks for playing. :coffee:
People are going to see that you too are trying to help me.

Can you be a little less obvious when you are trying to help me out by dumping the argument?
:rofl:
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by grizzaholic »

JoltinJoe wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:11 am
grizzaholic wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:10 am

I'm confused. Are you saying the team didn't have cheaters or that the cheaters had bad numbers so they must not have been cheating? :?
:rofl:

A concession. Thank you.

Next? :rofl:
AHHHH. I see now. Silly me. Claim victory and continue on and on and on.
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by SDHornet »

grizzaholic wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:13 am
JoltinJoe wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:11 am
:rofl:

A concession. Thank you.

Next? :rofl:
AHHHH. I see now. Silly me. Claim victory and continue on and on and on.
It's all he can do at this point. Steroids abound in 1998, but some how the Yankees didn't have one player use the stuff. Go figure.
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by grizzaholic »

SDHornet wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:15 am
grizzaholic wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:13 am

AHHHH. I see now. Silly me. Claim victory and continue on and on and on.
It's all he can do at this point. Steroids abound in 1998, but some how the Yankees didn't have one player use the stuff. Go figure.
We are talking baseball?!! :shock: Didn't know they still played that boring ass game.
"What I'm saying is: You might have taken care of your wolf problem, but everyone around town is going to think of you as the crazy son of a bitch who bought land mines to get rid of wolves."

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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by JoltinJoe »

SDHornet wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:15 am
grizzaholic wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:13 am

AHHHH. I see now. Silly me. Claim victory and continue on and on and on.
It's all he can do at this point. Steroids abound in 1998, but some how the Yankees didn't have one player use the stuff. Go figure.
Wrong again. Steroid did not "abound" in 1998. Heck, Barry Bonds didn't even start using until after the 1998 season.

It was the phony McGuire/Sosa power show -- and Bud Selig's cheering from the Commissioner's Box -- that sent the word out that not only did steroids improve performance, but baseball approved of steroid use.

Read "Game of Shadows." Steroid use was prevalent on a number of clubs before the 1999 season, but a number of clubhouses were still steroid free as late as 1998.
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by SDHornet »

JoltinJoe wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:28 am
SDHornet wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:15 am

It's all he can do at this point. Steroids abound in 1998, but some how the Yankees didn't have one player use the stuff. Go figure.
Wrong again. Steroid did not "abound" in 1998. Heck, Barry Bonds didn't even start using until after the 1998 season.

It was the phony McGuire/Sosa power show -- and Bud Selig's cheering from the Commissioner's Box -- that sent the word out that not only did steroids improve performance, but baseball approved of steroid use.

Read "Game of Shadows." Steroid use was prevalent on a number of clubs before the 1999 season, but a number of clubhouses were still steroid free as late as 1998.
Oh ok, only Sosa and McGuire were juicing. Makes sense. :lol:
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by CAA Flagship »

SDHornet wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:15 am
grizzaholic wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:13 am

AHHHH. I see now. Silly me. Claim victory and continue on and on and on.
It's all he can do at this point. Steroids abound in 1998, but some how the Yankees didn't have one player use the stuff. Go figure.
Take a look at the 98 roster and tell me which one.
Potentials: Ledee, Spencer, Strawberry, and Martinez. I seriously doubt any other non-pitcher used.
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by SDHornet »

CAA Flagship wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:29 am
SDHornet wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:15 am

It's all he can do at this point. Steroids abound in 1998, but some how the Yankees didn't have one player use the stuff. Go figure.
Take a look at the 98 roster and tell me which one.
Potentials: Ledee, Spencer, Strawberry, and Martinez. I seriously doubt any other non-pitcher used.
Ok, let's overlook Brosius' career resurgence at 32 years old. Nothing fishy there.
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by GannonFan »

SDHornet wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:31 am
CAA Flagship wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:29 am
Take a look at the 98 roster and tell me which one.
Potentials: Ledee, Spencer, Strawberry, and Martinez. I seriously doubt any other non-pitcher used.
Ok, let's overlook Brosius' career resurgence at 32 years old. Nothing fishy there.
Brosius was a victim. :rofl:
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by JoltinJoe »

CAA Flagship wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:29 am
SDHornet wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:15 am

It's all he can do at this point. Steroids abound in 1998, but some how the Yankees didn't have one player use the stuff. Go figure.
Take a look at the 98 roster and tell me which one.
Potentials: Ledee, Spencer, Strawberry, and Martinez. I seriously doubt any other non-pitcher used.
None of those names were ever linked to steroid use. In fact, only two players on the 1998 Yankees were ever linked to PED use: Pettitte and Knoblauch. And the Mitchell Report indicated that both used PEDs for first time long after 1998.

These are just facts.
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by JoltinJoe »

SDHornet wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:31 am
CAA Flagship wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:29 am
Take a look at the 98 roster and tell me which one.
Potentials: Ledee, Spencer, Strawberry, and Martinez. I seriously doubt any other non-pitcher used.
Ok, let's overlook Brosius' career resurgence at 32 years old. Nothing fishy there.
I appreciate you're trying to help me in this debate, but can you be just a little less obvious about it? :thumb:
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by SDHornet »

JoltinJoe wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:34 am
SDHornet wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:31 am

Ok, let's overlook Brosius' career resurgence at 32 years old. Nothing fishy there.
I appreciate you're trying to help me in this debate, but can you be just a little less obvious about it? :thumb:
You realize I don't give a shit about the Yankees right? I'm hear to point out that every team had someone juicing in the Steroid Era...and quite frankly, I don't give a damn. It sure was an entertaining time to be a baseball fan.
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by CAA Flagship »

SDHornet wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:31 am
CAA Flagship wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:29 am
Take a look at the 98 roster and tell me which one.
Potentials: Ledee, Spencer, Strawberry, and Martinez. I seriously doubt any other non-pitcher used.
Ok, let's overlook Brosius' career resurgence at 32 years old. Nothing fishy there.
It's certainly possible. But going from Oakland to the Yankees may have had something to do with the better numbers. Certainly with RBI's.
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by JoltinJoe »

GannonFan wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:31 am
SDHornet wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:31 am

Ok, let's overlook Brosius' career resurgence at 32 years old. Nothing fishy there.
Brosius was a victim. :rofl:
So, your response to my direct challenge to name one member of the 1998 Yankees linked to PED use is to identify Scott Brosius? :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :rofl: :lol: :lol: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :lol: :lol: :lol: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :dunce:
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by JoltinJoe »

CAA Flagship wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:36 am
SDHornet wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:31 am

Ok, let's overlook Brosius' career resurgence at 32 years old. Nothing fishy there.
It's certainly possible. But going from Oakland to the Yankees may have had something to do with the better numbers. Certainly with RBI's.
Or it might be that Brosius played most of 1997 hurt, with a bad knee, and had arthroscopic surgery in August 1997, which caused him to miss three weeks that August. And that he returned to his 1996 form the following season, when he was completely healthy?

And again, there was nothing earth shattering about Brosius' "form."
Last edited by JoltinJoe on Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by SDHornet »

CAA Flagship wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:36 am
SDHornet wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:31 am

Ok, let's overlook Brosius' career resurgence at 32 years old. Nothing fishy there.
It's certainly possible. But going from Oakland to the Yankees may have had something to do with the better numbers. Certainly with RBI's.
It's even more comical when you look at the advanced stats. That 98 season compared to others is like a diamond in the rough...all at 32 years old!!! :lol:
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by SDHornet »

JoltinJoe wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:41 am
CAA Flagship wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:36 am
It's certainly possible. But going from Oakland to the Yankees may have had something to do with the better numbers. Certainly with RBI's.
Or it might be that Brosius played most of 1997 hurt, with a bad knee, and had arthroscopic surgery in August 1997, which caused him to miss three weeks that August. And that he returned to his 1996 form the following season, when he was completely healthy?

And again, there was nothing earth shattering about Brosius' "form."
Hhmm...getting completely healthy from a tough knee surgery? What could have helped speed up the healing process and his bat speed at the same time. And yet I wonder...
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by JoltinJoe »

SDHornet wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:43 am
JoltinJoe wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:41 am

Or it might be that Brosius played most of 1997 hurt, with a bad knee, and had arthroscopic surgery in August 1997, which caused him to miss three weeks that August. And that he returned to his 1996 form the following season, when he was completely healthy?

And again, there was nothing earth shattering about Brosius' "form."
Hhmm...getting completely healthy from a tough knee surgery? What could have helped speed up the healing process and his bat speed at the same time. And yet I wonder...
I gather you've never played baseball, but a knee injury can severely affect the mechanics of your swing. And arthroscopic surgery isn't invasive. You can play baseball within 3-4 weeks after an arthroscopic knee procedure.

Brosius' 1998 season was not as good as his 1996 season. It was close. Fully healthy, he reverted to his form.

GanNoFacts, trust me, I'm not putting Hornet up this. :lol:
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by JoltinJoe »

And so the current round closes with not a single poster naming a member of the 1998 Yankees linked to PED use before or during 1998 -- except for a futile (baseless) accusation against Scott Brosius (I kid you not -- Scott Brosius).

Col. Hogan, is it still too premature to claim victory??
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by JoltinJoe »

Time for a victory dance.

https://giphy.com/embed/qK3xpybULwDYI"
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by Ivytalk »

JoltinJoe wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:18 am Time for a victory dance.

https://giphy.com/embed/qK3xpybULwDYI"
Hey, Pepitone, do you have an ass like that? :lol:
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by CAA Flagship »

SDHornet wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:42 am
CAA Flagship wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:36 am
It's certainly possible. But going from Oakland to the Yankees may have had something to do with the better numbers. Certainly with RBI's.
It's even more comical when you look at the advanced stats. That 98 season compared to others is like a diamond in the rough...all at 32 years old!!! :lol:
Meh. Look at '96. Had a better batting average and more home runs. Sure, '98 was a good year, but his bell curve isn't different than most players that played as long.
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by JoltinJoe »

CAA Flagship wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:54 am
SDHornet wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:42 am

It's even more comical when you look at the advanced stats. That 98 season compared to others is like a diamond in the rough...all at 32 years old!!! :lol:
Meh. Look at '96. Had a better batting average and more home runs. Sure, '98 was a good year, but his bell curve isn't different than most players that played as long.
Brosius' best season under lens of advanced stats is 1996. He had an OPS+ 127 that year. His 1998 OPS+ was just 121.

Hornet is secretly on our side.
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Re: Astros Accused of Cheating...

Post by JoltinJoe »

Ivytalk wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:44 am
JoltinJoe wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:18 am Time for a victory dance.

https://giphy.com/embed/qK3xpybULwDYI"
Hey, Pepitone, do you have an ass like that? :lol:
Who's asking? :?
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