Redskins New Name

[andy7171]

How about rename the team PC Whackjobs as an insult to the handful of token Indians and fans of the Eagles, Giants and Cowboys that keep this whiney issue popping up every 5 years.

[Ibanez]

How about rename the team PC Whackjobs as an insult to the handful of token Indians and fans of the Eagles, Giants and Cowboys that keep this whiney issue popping up every 5 years.

As a Giant, i'm offended.

[89Hen]

How about rename the team PC Whackjobs as an insult to the handful of token Indians and fans of the Eagles, Giants and Cowboys that keep this whiney issue popping up every 5 years.

Vincent Grey is an Eagles fan? Michael Wilbon a Cowboys fan? The Washington City Paper is run by native Americans?

[ASUMountaineer]

Don't think that was the answer he was looking for...

What answer was I looking for?

Sure seemed like a baited question. If it was sincere curiosity, my apologies sir.

[ASUMountaineer]

Already suggested, by me, in this thread. Boss!

It sounded better when Mark proposed it. Maybe his southern accent isn't as thick as yours.

[CAA Flagship]

So Ibanez, tell me more about your Native American wife.

What tribe is she, what reservation did she grow up on?

Not NATIVE American wife. He said NAIVE American wife.

(He will be making his own sammiches for a while).

[89Hen]

So Ibanez, tell me more about your Native American wife.

What tribe is she, what reservation did she grow up on?

Not NATIVE American wife. He said NAIVE American wife.

(He will be making his own sammiches for a while).

[Ibanez]

So Ibanez, tell me more about your Native American wife.

What tribe is she, what reservation did she grow up on?

Not NATIVE American wife. He said NAIVE American wife.

(He will be making his own sammiches for a while).

Oops. My bad


Sent from my iPhone

[alyssa]

Do you really believe that the management of the Washington franchise, it's employees, and it's fans associate the name "Redskins" with skinned (dead) Indian persons? To you it may be considered a derogatory word. But the people who use the word don't have any derogatory slant at all. That is an important piece of this conversation.

I know that people have been taught the truth for many years. It probably includes some of those people you ask about. http://aistm.org/1indexpage.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But I hear what you are saying. If just one side has a problem with it, or is using the term in a derogatory way, then that makes it wrong. In this case, I don't see it being used in an evil manner. I've talked to people in their 70's and 80's that still refer to blacks as "colored" people. In most cases, it is not meant to be derogatory. It's just that they have not evolved with the times to use alternate language to illustrate the same meaning. This is a situation where you are the one that objects to the use of the term.

I know what you are saying. In my personal experience it seems to be individuals who know better or not. There are individuals from different generations who know better. This is something that I could talk about for hours and I just don't want to do that now.

Now to get this straight, are you against Redskins but OK with tribe names such as Seminole and Sioux, or are you against all Indian references? You say that mascots should not be people but there are many mascots that are including Engineers, Lumberjacks, Mountaineers, Explorers, Colonels, Mariners, Generals, Captains, Trolls , Matadors, Farmers, Pirates, Buccaneers, Raiders, Magicians, Marauders, etc. (I know several Marauders and they don't seem to care. OK. Just kidding. ). The point is that these are people who wore, or still wear, distinct outfits and lived, or still live, distinct lifestyles. When Indian mascots are portrayed in athletics, it is with feathers, leather vests, war paint, etc. This is more of a historical reference than a present day one. It's not like they are dressed like Black Jack dealers and called Indians (by the way, that would be a good mascot because those **** never lose ). I guess what I am saying is that I'm OK that you look for change, but don't feel like the term is being used in a derogatory way.[/quote]

OK what I was taught by older Indigenous persons (many would be over 100 if still living today) and what I believe and practise is to stay away from races, nationalities, ethnic groups etc. So I would not use Sioux or anything like that.

And I would never use a human being as a mascot personally but I know that it is done.
I also don't like pirates or raiders for example because they are criminals. They may rape, murder, steal and all that ........! The students aren't supposed to behave that way in society or in school but for some reason it gets used as a mascot to represent them.

Also when you mention feathers maybe the feathers are not being used correctly. There we may get into religious ways. It's something you may find an answer to sometime. I'm not really wanting to talk about it right now.
I do know that when a police chief questioned an Indigenous American about some other people he was investigating years ago he asked the person if he believed in feathers. When he came to me and told me about how he was uncomfortable and the questioning I took him up to the city and reported it. The next day or two the mayor approached the police chief and fired him on the spot.

There is a difference in some of those you listed like matadors, farmers and engineers are professions and not races etc. of people.
I'd stay away from magicians because it falls under religion. A magician, like a wiccan witch (witch meaning wise person) or something like that is religious.

Somehow my answer got split up but it's there in short form this time.
Maybe you can find some answers on Charlene's site. I've only read part of it. I really don't have to read through it. I've lived this stuff.
http://www.charleneteters.com/Welcome.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[alyssa]

Russell Means and Juanita Helphrey 1994

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heEOnEcY5IU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From In Whose Honor?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEUl2keJK-w" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lUF95ThI7s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[andy7171]

Alyssa which do you find more offensive, the Redskins logo, the Cleveland Indians Cheif Wahoo, the Braves Tomahawk Chop, or the Indian tribe in Peter Pan?

[andy7171]

...or Chief Longbow and Princess Winterspringsummerfall?

[dbackjon]

What answer was I looking for?

Sure seemed like a baited question. If it was sincere curiosity, my apologies sir.

Meh, it was half sincerely curious, half fishing.

It was the exact answer I was expecting, BTW.

[Ibanez]

Sure seemed like a baited question. If it was sincere curiosity, my apologies sir.

Meh, it was half sincerely curious, half fishing.

It was the exact answer I was expecting, BTW.

Glad I didn't disappoint.

[Ibanez]

Do you really believe that the management of the Washington franchise, it's employees, and it's fans associate the name "Redskins" with skinned (dead) Indian persons? To you it may be considered a derogatory word. But the people who use the word don't have any derogatory slant at all. That is an important piece of this conversation.

I know that people have been taught the truth for many years. It probably includes some of those people you ask about. http://aistm.org/1indexpage.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But I hear what you are saying. If just one side has a problem with it, or is using the term in a derogatory way, then that makes it wrong. In this case, I don't see it being used in an evil manner. I've talked to people in their 70's and 80's that still refer to blacks as "colored" people. In most cases, it is not meant to be derogatory. It's just that they have not evolved with the times to use alternate language to illustrate the same meaning. This is a situation where you are the one that objects to the use of the term.

I know what you are saying. In my personal experience it seems to be individuals who know better or not. There are individuals from different generations who know better. This is something that I could talk about for hours and I just don't want to do that now.

Now to get this straight, are you against Redskins but OK with tribe names such as Seminole and Sioux, or are you against all Indian references? You say that mascots should not be people but there are many mascots that are including Engineers, Lumberjacks, Mountaineers, Explorers, Colonels, Mariners, Generals, Captains, Trolls , Matadors, Farmers, Pirates, Buccaneers, Raiders, Magicians, Marauders, etc. (I know several Marauders and they don't seem to care. OK. Just kidding. ). The point is that these are people who wore, or still wear, distinct outfits and lived, or still live, distinct lifestyles. When Indian mascots are portrayed in athletics, it is with feathers, leather vests, war paint, etc. This is more of a historical reference than a present day one. It's not like they are dressed like Black Jack dealers and called Indians (by the way, that would be a good mascot because those **** never lose ). I guess what I am saying is that I'm OK that you look for change, but don't feel like the term is being used in a derogatory way.

OK what I was taught by older Indigenous persons (many would be over 100 if still living today) and what I believe and practise is to stay away from races, nationalities, ethnic groups etc. So I would not use Sioux or anything like that.

And I would never use a human being as a mascot personally but I know that it is done.
I also don't like pirates or raiders for example because they are criminals. They may rape, murder, steal and all that ........! The students aren't supposed to behave that way in society or in school but for some reason it gets used as a mascot to represent them.

Also when you mention feathers maybe the feathers are not being used correctly. There we may get into religious ways. It's something you may find an answer to sometime. I'm not really wanting to talk about it right now.
I do know that when a police chief questioned an Indigenous American about some other people he was investigating years ago he asked the person if he believed in feathers. When he came to me and told me about how he was uncomfortable and the questioning I took him up to the city and reported it. The next day or two the mayor approached the police chief and fired him on the spot.

There is a difference in some of those you listed like matadors, farmers and engineers are professions and not races etc. of people.
I'd stay away from magicians because it falls under religion. A magician, like a wiccan witch (witch meaning wise person) or something like that is religious.

Somehow my answer got split up but it's there in short form this time.
Maybe you can find some answers on Charlene's site. I've only read part of it. I really don't have to read through it. I've lived this stuff.
http://www.charleneteters.com/Welcome.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[/quote]
Do you boycott John Anderson? How about Paul Revere and the Raiders? How about the song "Cochise" by Audioslave?

[89Hen]

Somehow my answer got split up but it's there in short form this time.

Only compared to a JSO post.

[Ibanez]

Somehow my answer got split up but it's there in short form this time.

Only compared to a JSO post.

They took the whole Indian nation
Locked us on this reservation
Though I wear a shirt and tie
I'm still part redman deep inside

[ASUMountaineer]

Sure seemed like a baited question. If it was sincere curiosity, my apologies sir.

Meh, it was half sincerely curious, half fishing.

It was the exact answer I was expecting, BTW.

Ok, so I didn't swing and miss completely.

[DSUrocks07]

The Great One has officially weighed in on this.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/97726 ... e-concerns

[dal4018]

How about rename the team PC Whackjobs as an insult to the handful of token Indians and fans of the Eagles, Giants and Cowboys that keep this whiney issue popping up every 5 years.

Snyder is the modern day version of Geo.Preston Marshall.

[CID1990]

I am deeply offended by Iona's mascot.

[rkwittem]

How about rename the team PC Whackjobs as an insult to the handful of token Indians and fans of the Eagles, Giants and Cowboys that keep this whiney issue popping up every 5 years.

Snyder is the modern day version of Geo.Preston Marshall.

No, he's not. The Redskins have AA's on their roster.

[93henfan]

Forget where I saw it, but there was a TV piece where they talked about a high school team in, I think, Texas. The school mascot had been The Coons. A black family moved there and was offended, took action, and successfully got the mascot changed to....

The Racoons.

I mean, if you're gonna change it, shouldn't it have been something completely different? I shot my drink through my nose when the black dad had a satisfying smile on his face and said "they changed it to Racoons!"

[Ibanez]

Forget where I saw it, but there was a TV piece where they talked about a high school team in, I think, Texas. The school mascot had been The Coons. A black family moved there and was offended, took action, and successfully got the mascot changed to....

The Racoons.

I mean, if you're gonna change it, shouldn't it have been something completely different? I shot my drink through my nose when the black dad had a satisfying smile on his face and said "they changed it to Racoons!"

That was posted a few pages ago.


Sent from my iPhone

[93henfan]

Forget where I saw it, but there was a TV piece where they talked about a high school team in, I think, Texas. The school mascot had been The Coons. A black family moved there and was offended, took action, and successfully got the mascot changed to....

The Racoons.

I mean, if you're gonna change it, shouldn't it have been something completely different? I shot my drink through my nose when the black dad had a satisfying smile on his face and said "they changed it to Racoons!"

That was posted a few pages ago.


Sent from my iPhone

Like I'm gonna read the half page posts from a drunk ass indian.