US SOCCER

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Re: US SOCCER

Post by 89Hen »

Anyone remember when US soccer was a thing?
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Re: US SOCCER

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89Hen wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:49 am Anyone remember when US soccer was a thing?
The team that the US will send to Qatar in 2022 will be the most talented side ever to represent the US in international competition. It is going to be stacked with young talent.

By 2026, that talent will be mature and ready to give a tough match to any side in the world.

The USMNT will be successful in Qatar, and will have one of the deepest runs in squad history in 2026.
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Re: US SOCCER

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JoltinJoe wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:33 am The team that the US will send to Qatar in 2022 will be the most talented side ever to represent the US in international competition. It is going to be stacked with young talent.

By 2026, that talent will be mature and ready to give a tough match to any side in the world.

The USMNT will be successful in Qatar, and will have one of the deepest runs in squad history in 2026.
How 1992 of you.
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Re: US SOCCER

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89Hen wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:43 am
JoltinJoe wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:33 am The team that the US will send to Qatar in 2022 will be the most talented side ever to represent the US in international competition. It is going to be stacked with young talent.

By 2026, that talent will be mature and ready to give a tough match to any side in the world.

The USMNT will be successful in Qatar, and will have one of the deepest runs in squad history in 2026.
How 1992 of you.
Did you personally know some of those guys from that '92 team? Your propensity to prop up an admittedly scrappy but relatively underwhelming US side lacks any real logic other than trying to protect a friend or family member. JJ's right, the US is in a position they've never been in so far - they're sitting on a slew of young and really talented players who are getting unheard of playing time in Europe on top teams (they have an unheard of 10 players playing with teams still alive in UEFA's Champions League) , and they are at an age where they won't even start entering their prime international soccer years until these next two World Cups. Whether they get the dominos to fall properly is another question, but you can't deny the unrivaled position they are in right now compared to anything in their history.
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Re: US SOCCER

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GannonFan wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:31 am
89Hen wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:43 am

How 1992 of you.
Did you personally know some of those guys from that '92 team? Your propensity to prop up an admittedly scrappy but relatively underwhelming US side lacks any real logic other than trying to protect a friend or family member. JJ's right, the US is in a position they've never been in so far - they're sitting on a slew of young and really talented players who are getting unheard of playing time in Europe on top teams (they have an unheard of 10 players playing with teams still alive in UEFA's Champions League) , and they are at an age where they won't even start entering their prime international soccer years until these next two World Cups. Whether they get the dominos to fall properly is another question, but you can't deny the unrivaled position they are in right now compared to anything in their history.
:suspicious: I can't tell if you seriously don't understand the reference. We've talked about this before. We were told in 1992 how the US was poised to take the next step and become a serious player by hosting in 94, having a stable of talent coming in that would elevate the program and soccer in general, etc... Fool me once....

IF the US does become a serious world player, great! But I'm going to wait until 2030+ to believe it.
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Re: US SOCCER

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What would they need to achieve to become a "serious world player"?
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Re: US SOCCER

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Skjellyfetti wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:48 pm What would they need to achieve to become a "serious world player"?
Off the top of my head, WC semifinal appearance and another quarter or better in consecutive (or 2 of 3) WC's and stay in the top 10-12 world rankings for several years (5+). I'm open for discussion on better metrics, and I'm sure you will find some countries like England that don't meet these, but they have the history the US does not.
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Re: US SOCCER

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89Hen wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:24 am
GannonFan wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:31 am

Did you personally know some of those guys from that '92 team? Your propensity to prop up an admittedly scrappy but relatively underwhelming US side lacks any real logic other than trying to protect a friend or family member. JJ's right, the US is in a position they've never been in so far - they're sitting on a slew of young and really talented players who are getting unheard of playing time in Europe on top teams (they have an unheard of 10 players playing with teams still alive in UEFA's Champions League) , and they are at an age where they won't even start entering their prime international soccer years until these next two World Cups. Whether they get the dominos to fall properly is another question, but you can't deny the unrivaled position they are in right now compared to anything in their history.
:suspicious: I can't tell if you seriously don't understand the reference. We've talked about this before. We were told in 1992 how the US was poised to take the next step and become a serious player by hosting in 94, having a stable of talent coming in that would elevate the program and soccer in general, etc... Fool me once....

IF the US does become a serious world player, great! But I'm going to wait until 2030+ to believe it.
Agreed. I'll wait to get excited about US soccer when they prove it on the field.
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Re: US SOCCER

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SDHornet wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:16 pm
89Hen wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:24 am
:suspicious: I can't tell if you seriously don't understand the reference. We've talked about this before. We were told in 1992 how the US was poised to take the next step and become a serious player by hosting in 94, having a stable of talent coming in that would elevate the program and soccer in general, etc... Fool me once....

IF the US does become a serious world player, great! But I'm going to wait until 2030+ to believe it.
Agreed. I'll wait to get excited about US soccer when they prove it on the field.
I regularly watch soccer and fully agree with this sentiment. Until they prove it on the field, I will take all the "hype" with a grain of salt.
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Re: US SOCCER

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89Hen wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:14 pm
Skjellyfetti wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:48 pm What would they need to achieve to become a "serious world player"?
Off the top of my head, WC semifinal appearance and another quarter or better in consecutive (or 2 of 3) WC's and stay in the top 10-12 world rankings for several years (5+). I'm open for discussion on better metrics, and I'm sure you will find some countries like England that don't meet these, but they have the history the US does not.
Pretty tough metrics.

France and Belgium are the only ones that qualify if you look at the last two World Cups.
2 out of 3 is probably better: France, Belgium, England, Germany, Brazil, Uruguay, Netherlands, and Argentina.

Germany, Netherlands, Argentina, Uruguay, and England are eliminated based on the 5 year FIFA ranking, though.

France, Brazil, and Belgium are your only "serious world player[s]".


Honestly, I think making just making a semifinal is sufficient. Even an outlier like Croatia gets quite a bit of credibility and validation from getting to the semis. JMO. Making the quarters two World Cups in a row would also be pretty damn successful for the US.
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Re: US SOCCER

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Skjellyfetti wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:36 pm
89Hen wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:14 pm

Off the top of my head, WC semifinal appearance and another quarter or better in consecutive (or 2 of 3) WC's and stay in the top 10-12 world rankings for several years (5+). I'm open for discussion on better metrics, and I'm sure you will find some countries like England that don't meet these, but they have the history the US does not.
France and Belgium are the only ones that qualify if you look at the last two World Cups.
2 out of 3 is probably better: France, Belgium, England, Germany, Brazil, Uruguay, Netherlands, and Argentina.

Germany, Netherlands, Argentina, Uruguay, and England are eliminated based on the 5 year FIFA ranking, though.

France, Brazil, and Belgium are your only "serious world player[s]".

Will be tough to equal. US won't do it. I agree. Carry on.
:lol: Gee, it wasn't too transparent where you going with that leading question.

You asked what the US would have to do. Not what another country that has years and years and years of good results has to do. All those countries you named are serious world players. Germany spent 12 straight years in the top SIX. Argentina hasn't been out of the top 11 since 1996. England has an average position rank of 10 all time and has only been outside the top 12 four years in the last 20 (three of those at 13). Like I said, I'm open for discussion on the numbers I threw out. Maybe it need to be top 15. And I never said they have to stay there in perpetuity.

Countries you didn't name that meet the 5 year FIFA recently.. Portugal (2004-present and Semis 2006), Croatia (2007-12 and 2nd in WC 2018), Switzerland (2012-19)... They are serious world players too (maybe not the Swiss).

How would you define a "serious world player"?
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Re: US SOCCER

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89Hen wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:24 am
GannonFan wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:31 am

Did you personally know some of those guys from that '92 team? Your propensity to prop up an admittedly scrappy but relatively underwhelming US side lacks any real logic other than trying to protect a friend or family member. JJ's right, the US is in a position they've never been in so far - they're sitting on a slew of young and really talented players who are getting unheard of playing time in Europe on top teams (they have an unheard of 10 players playing with teams still alive in UEFA's Champions League) , and they are at an age where they won't even start entering their prime international soccer years until these next two World Cups. Whether they get the dominos to fall properly is another question, but you can't deny the unrivaled position they are in right now compared to anything in their history.
:suspicious: I can't tell if you seriously don't understand the reference. We've talked about this before. We were told in 1992 how the US was poised to take the next step and become a serious player by hosting in 94, having a stable of talent coming in that would elevate the program and soccer in general, etc... Fool me once....

IF the US does become a serious world player, great! But I'm going to wait until 2030+ to believe it.
I understand the reference and your skepticism. But the 1994 US World Cup roster had one player, Tab Ramos, playing with a First Division European club. The US side that will go to Qatar will be loaded with young players logging serious playing time in the European top flights and in International play. There is no comparison in the talent level of the '94 and 2022 teams.

Take a look at the player and the clubs on this projection for the 2022 roster. Also note that the 2022 WC will be played in Qatar in winter, but temperatures will still run somewhere between 85-90 degrees. Young legs that recover faster and don't cramp as easily could be a big factor in this WC.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-stat ... 2-in-qatar
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Re: US SOCCER

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JoltinJoe wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:23 pm There is no comparison in the talent level of the '94 and 2022 teams.
Great! So we are pretty much assured a quarterfinal appearance. I'll be watching all the games as I always do. :thumb:
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Re: US SOCCER

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89Hen wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:48 am
JoltinJoe wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:23 pm There is no comparison in the talent level of the '94 and 2022 teams.
Great! So we are pretty much assured a quarterfinal appearance. I'll be watching all the games as I always do. :thumb:
I think we're assured that the '22 team is a far better team than the '94 one was. After that it comes down to normal World Cup concerns - who's in the group we get drawn with, who would be there in the Round of 16 if we get out of the group, etc. This isn't like '94 when it was just a 24 team tournament and a 1 win, 3rd place team could advance out of the group (you had four of the six 3rd place teams advance out back then).
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Re: US SOCCER

Post by 89Hen »

GannonFan wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:16 am
89Hen wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:48 am

Great! So we are pretty much assured a quarterfinal appearance. I'll be watching all the games as I always do. :thumb:
I think we're assured that the '22 team is a far better team than the '94 one was. After that it comes down to normal World Cup concerns - who's in the group we get drawn with, who would be there in the Round of 16 if we get out of the group, etc. This isn't like '94 when it was just a 24 team tournament and a 1 win, 3rd place team could advance out of the group (you had four of the six 3rd place teams advance out back then).
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Re: US SOCCER

Post by GannonFan »

89Hen wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:21 am
GannonFan wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:16 am

I think we're assured that the '22 team is a far better team than the '94 one was. After that it comes down to normal World Cup concerns - who's in the group we get drawn with, who would be there in the Round of 16 if we get out of the group, etc. This isn't like '94 when it was just a 24 team tournament and a 1 win, 3rd place team could advance out of the group (you had four of the six 3rd place teams advance out back then).
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I think they're called details. I didn't hear you volunteering that the '94 team finished 3rd in their group, just you saying getting into the quarterfinals was necessary to do better than that team. If I was cynical I would think you already knew that information and didn't offer it up since it undercut your point. No way you would do that though, amirite? :?
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Re: US SOCCER

Post by 89Hen »

GannonFan wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:27 pm
89Hen wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:21 am

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I think they're called details. I didn't hear you volunteering that the '94 team finished 3rd in their group, just you saying getting into the quarterfinals was necessary to do better than that team. If I was cynical I would think you already knew that information and didn't offer it up since it undercut your point. No way you would do that though, amirite? :?
I don't think you're right at all. I've never propped up the '94 team and I've never said they should be the measuring stick. In fact, my point was that US soccer was a huge disappointment after the promises that were made in 1992.

It's pretty clear you don't understand what we're discussing. Let me try one last time to explain. We were promised that soccer in the US and USMNT were poised to become a world player in 1992. That claim was proved to be false. So when I hear folks say we are poised to become a world player once again, you can hopefully see why I'm reserving judgement on that.
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